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Teen Pregnancy

Kleptin
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9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
jharry
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9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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9/20/2010 8:35:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.
Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Let me get this straight...
Teens want babies and get pregnant, so they should be sent to jail and their fetuses (their property) should be killed?
Or are you joking?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/20/2010 8:36:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

You need that explained...?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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9/20/2010 8:37:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?

We can hash out the practicality after we settle it in the idealistic sense. Right now, yes, I think it would be a good fix for the problem.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
jharry
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9/20/2010 8:41:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:37:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?

We can hash out the practicality after we settle it in the idealistic sense. Right now, yes, I think it would be a good fix for the problem.

Well maybe I'm not the best one to discuss this. I don't think abortion should ever be the answer to any problem. Maybe some one else would be better to discuss this. I think the opposite, don't let them get an abortion that way they can learn to deal with the ignorance of their childhood.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/20/2010 8:41:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:37:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?

We can hash out the practicality after we settle it in the idealistic sense. Right now, yes, I think it would be a good fix for the problem.

No.It is biologically accurate to reproduce at that age and if they wish to and have te children when their bodies can handle it that's THEIR business, and possibly whoever is caring for them. The government has NO place forcing abortion on anyone.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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9/20/2010 8:43:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:41:16 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:37:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?

We can hash out the practicality after we settle it in the idealistic sense. Right now, yes, I think it would be a good fix for the problem.

Well maybe I'm not the best one to discuss this. I don't think abortion should ever be the answer to any problem. Maybe some one else would be better to discuss this. I think the opposite, don't let them get an abortion that way they can learn to deal with the ignorance of their childhood.

Exactly. I mean Hell if you said make them give them up for adoption then I might agree to a certain degree. Their parents could adopt the child, or a friend of theirs could and they could still be the parent they wanted to be.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
jharry
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9/20/2010 8:45:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:43:02 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:41:16 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:37:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?

We can hash out the practicality after we settle it in the idealistic sense. Right now, yes, I think it would be a good fix for the problem.

Well maybe I'm not the best one to discuss this. I don't think abortion should ever be the answer to any problem. Maybe some one else would be better to discuss this. I think the opposite, don't let them get an abortion that way they can learn to deal with the ignorance of their childhood.

Exactly. I mean Hell if you said make them give them up for adoption then I might agree to a certain degree. Their parents could adopt the child, or a friend of theirs could and they could still be the parent they wanted to be.

No. No adaption. Make them raise them. Make them change the diapers. Make them stay at home while their friends go out. Make them not get over priced clothes and fashions. It is a great lesson in life.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Kleptin
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9/20/2010 8:49:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:35:38 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Let me get this straight...
Teens want babies and get pregnant, so they should be sent to jail and their fetuses (their property) should be killed?
Or are you joking?

Property is only property when the owner takes full responsibility for it. Teens can have children just so long as they submit a waiver for any sort of government aid for their child until the mother turns 18. Then she can file for some sort of government aid.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
jharry
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9/20/2010 8:51:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:49:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:35:38 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Let me get this straight...
Teens want babies and get pregnant, so they should be sent to jail and their fetuses (their property) should be killed?
Or are you joking?

Property is only property when the owner takes full responsibility for it. Teens can have children just so long as they submit a waiver for any sort of government aid for their child until the mother turns 18. Then she can file for some sort of government aid.

Why 18. Why at all?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Kleptin
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9/20/2010 8:51:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:41:34 PM, lovelife wrote:
No.It is biologically accurate to reproduce at that age and if they wish to and have te children when their bodies can handle it that's THEIR business, and possibly whoever is caring for them. The government has NO place forcing abortion on anyone.

Good, then these teens have no place forcing the government to pay for their kid.

Quid Pro Quo.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/20/2010 8:52:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:49:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:35:38 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Let me get this straight...
Teens want babies and get pregnant, so they should be sent to jail and their fetuses (their property) should be killed?
Or are you joking?

Property is only property when the owner takes full responsibility for it. Teens can have children just so long as they submit a waiver for any sort of government aid for their child until the mother turns 18
More just solution-- ban government aid, whether the mother crosses some arbitrary age line or not.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/20/2010 8:53:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
and with said more just solution, there is no purpose left for forced medical procedures.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Kleptin
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9/20/2010 8:55:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:45:17 PM, jharry wrote:
No. No adaption. Make them raise them. Make them change the diapers. Make them stay at home while their friends go out. Make them not get over priced clothes and fashions. It is a great lesson in life.

They'll just end up bringing a burden on taxpayers. The kid won't be able to raise the baby alone. It may be a nice life lesson if it's doable, but it's not. Not without tax dollars. And I prefer to use my tax dollars to feed *me*, not people who make stupid decisions because they refuse to look at the big picture.

Selfish idiots who think "my body, my life", and don't realize that there are people out there paying for their mistakes.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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9/20/2010 8:58:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:52:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
More just solution-- ban government aid, whether the mother crosses some arbitrary age line or not.

Ugh, if only. This would be the panacea for all of society's ills.

The problem is that mindless charity and altruism are too ingrained into humanity for this to be feasible anytime in OUR lifetime.

Perhaps someday...
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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9/20/2010 9:00:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:55:00 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:45:17 PM, jharry wrote:
No. No adaption. Make them raise them. Make them change the diapers. Make them stay at home while their friends go out. Make them not get over priced clothes and fashions. It is a great lesson in life.

They'll just end up bringing a burden on taxpayers. The kid won't be able to raise the baby alone. It may be a nice life lesson if it's doable, but it's not. Not without tax dollars. And I prefer to use my tax dollars to feed *me*, not people who make stupid decisions because they refuse to look at the big picture.

Selfish idiots who think "my body, my life", and don't realize that there are people out there paying for their mistakes.

Exactly, no aid what so ever. But then the parents or even grand parents end up raising the kids. I agree. But abortion isn't the answer, even if I didn't have a hatred of the act it would only allow them to have more and more. Still costing big bucks for us.

I know the problem and the reason, I know the cure. But I can't prove it, so it will never become reality in America today. It will just get worse.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/20/2010 9:00:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:58:23 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:52:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
More just solution-- ban government aid, whether the mother crosses some arbitrary age line or not.

Ugh, if only. This would be the panacea for all of society's ills.

The problem is that mindless charity and altruism are too ingrained into humanity
No, they are ingrained in some humans. Not humanity as an abstraction. Unless you're making an accusation.

Incidentally, imposing a regime of forced abortions in America successfully is even less likely than ending the welfare state.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Kleptin
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9/20/2010 9:01:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:51:18 PM, jharry wrote:
Why 18. Why at all?

No real reason. 18 is the arbitrarily set age to become a legal adult as well as the last year of mandatory schooling. Postponing pregnancy to that age will reduce the number of idiot teens who think a baby is like a handbag or a hat, and who will eventually dump it off to Uncle Sam when they can't afford it.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
jharry
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9/20/2010 9:04:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:01:24 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:51:18 PM, jharry wrote:
Why 18. Why at all?

No real reason. 18 is the arbitrarily set age to become a legal adult as well as the last year of mandatory schooling. Postponing pregnancy to that age will reduce the number of idiot teens who think a baby is like a handbag or a hat, and who will eventually dump it off to Uncle Sam when they can't afford it.

Can't that happen even after 18? But I do see your point. I think the biggest problem is that we can't legislate morals or ignorance.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Kleptin
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9/20/2010 9:06:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:00:41 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No, they are ingrained in some humans. Not humanity as an abstraction. Unless you're making an accusation.

Whatever, I'm not in the mood to play with terminology. Point being: They are ingrained in too many humans for this to be practical as of right now, or even in the near future.

Incidentally, imposing a regime of forced abortions in America successfully is even less likely than ending the welfare state.

Perhaps. I saw it as cutting down a portion of the welfare state. The main goal isn't to really abort, but to force an abortion.

Revised: The state offers the teen a free abortion, or the teen will receive no government aid in raising the child, and no aid in finding a foster home.

Better?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/20/2010 9:06:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:45:17 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:43:02 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:41:16 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:37:37 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:23:42 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
So, the Tyra show had a special on teen pregnancy, in which the teens were infatuated with the idea of having babies and were actively trying to get pregnant at the ages of 13-15.

Explain to me again why it would be wrong to criminalize teen pregnancy and force abortions on them?

Do you think that would "fix" anything? If I understood your question right?

We can hash out the practicality after we settle it in the idealistic sense. Right now, yes, I think it would be a good fix for the problem.

Well maybe I'm not the best one to discuss this. I don't think abortion should ever be the answer to any problem. Maybe some one else would be better to discuss this. I think the opposite, don't let them get an abortion that way they can learn to deal with the ignorance of their childhood.

Exactly. I mean Hell if you said make them give them up for adoption then I might agree to a certain degree. Their parents could adopt the child, or a friend of theirs could and they could still be the parent they wanted to be.

No. No adaption. Make them raise them. Make them change the diapers. Make them stay at home while their friends go out. Make them not get over priced clothes and fashions. It is a great lesson in life.

I'm saying that arguably the grandparents would have to deal with it too, thats why I said they could adopt it. I think childbirth on its own should be a good lesson. then again there was a girl that had her second baby in 7th grade, she was also raising the first one at the time too. Guess its her choice.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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9/20/2010 9:08:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:51:58 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:41:34 PM, lovelife wrote:
No.It is biologically accurate to reproduce at that age and if they wish to and have te children when their bodies can handle it that's THEIR business, and possibly whoever is caring for them. The government has NO place forcing abortion on anyone.

Good, then these teens have no place forcing the government to pay for their kid.

Quid Pro Quo.

Okay? If they are emancepated, or need the government help, I don't see how their age matters.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
jharry
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9/20/2010 9:10:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:06:45 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 9:00:41 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No, they are ingrained in some humans. Not humanity as an abstraction. Unless you're making an accusation.

Whatever, I'm not in the mood to play with terminology. Point being: They are ingrained in too many humans for this to be practical as of right now, or even in the near future.

Incidentally, imposing a regime of forced abortions in America successfully is even less likely than ending the welfare state.

Perhaps. I saw it as cutting down a portion of the welfare state. The main goal isn't to really abort, but to force an abortion.

Revised: The state offers the teen a free abortion, or the teen will receive no government aid in raising the child, and no aid in finding a foster home.

Better?

Well that would seem to free up the idiot girl to do it again. Maybe even causes her to think that the government will get her out of any and all "problems" in the future.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/20/2010 9:10:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Revised: The state offers the teen a free abortion, or the teen will receive no government aid in raising the child, and no aid in finding a foster home.
Better. And more likely, but still not actually likely.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
nonentity
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9/20/2010 9:12:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think it's cute you watch Tyra :p

In response to the thread, there should be some sort of IQ test people have to take before being allowed to reproduce.
lovelife
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9/20/2010 9:12:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:06:45 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 9:00:41 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No, they are ingrained in some humans. Not humanity as an abstraction. Unless you're making an accusation.

Whatever, I'm not in the mood to play with terminology. Point being: They are ingrained in too many humans for this to be practical as of right now, or even in the near future.

Incidentally, imposing a regime of forced abortions in America successfully is even less likely than ending the welfare state.

Perhaps. I saw it as cutting down a portion of the welfare state. The main goal isn't to really abort, but to force an abortion.

Revised: The state offers the teen a free abortion, or the teen will receive no government aid in raising the child, and no aid in finding a foster home.

Better?

The government should help to find foster homes. Even if you wanna teach them a lesson, why punish the kid? it will just end up starving as a baby, abused or neglected. In either case the problem wont be solved.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
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9/20/2010 9:12:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:06:59 PM, lovelife wrote:
I'm saying that arguably the grandparents would have to deal with it too, thats why I said they could adopt it. I think childbirth on its own should be a good lesson. then again there was a girl that had her second baby in 7th grade, she was also raising the first one at the time too. Guess its her choice.

Then they can sign the waiver. Let the grandparents raise it, if they have enough money. Let them waste their 401k and the money they need to survive their last few years with. If they want to do it, by all means, please do so. Just don't use *my* tax dollars.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/20/2010 9:12:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well that would seem to free up the idiot girl to do it again. Maybe even causes her to think that the government will get her out of any and all "problems" in the future.
She thinks that with aid anyway. So there'll be recidivism either way.

The difference is paying the cost of raising a child (estimated at 250k or something right now) versus the costs of an abortion (Maybe 1 percent of that?)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
jharry
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9/20/2010 9:13:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:12:21 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 9/20/2010 9:06:59 PM, lovelife wrote:
I'm saying that arguably the grandparents would have to deal with it too, thats why I said they could adopt it. I think childbirth on its own should be a good lesson. then again there was a girl that had her second baby in 7th grade, she was also raising the first one at the time too. Guess its her choice.

Then they can sign the waiver. Let the grandparents raise it, if they have enough money. Let them waste their 401k and the money they need to survive their last few years with. If they want to do it, by all means, please do so. Just don't use *my* tax dollars.

But does that solve the problem of selfish idiots not thinking about others when they live off the government?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen