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Communism Is really evil

Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,750
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10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

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BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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10/27/2015 3:28:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

I wish communism did not become so distorted whereas people forgot what it intially was.

If we are comparing communism to what Lenin and Trotsky were thinking, then nearly every country in the world is communist.

If we go by the original definition used by the French and Karl Marx, it is a form of anarchism. In Karl Marx's case, it is a form of anarchism that was to come after the institution of transitional authoritarian socialism.

That, and the fact that Karl Marx convinced himself that capital wasn't needed to conduct trade between communes, is why I am not a Marxist.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,750
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10/27/2015 3:48:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever

I don't doubt that. I'm fairly conservative myself. But in some scenarios communism isn't that bad. Not that it's the best, but it's not evil.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9
n7
Posts: 1,358
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10/27/2015 4:03:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever
I read "Jamestown" as "Jonestown" and thought you were joking or something...
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/27/2015 6:48:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.

Ahh, the catholic church, burning heretics since 200 A.D.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/27/2015 6:49:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 3:28:11 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

I wish communism did not become so distorted whereas people forgot what it intially was.

If we are comparing communism to what Lenin and Trotsky were thinking, then nearly every country in the world is communist.

If we go by the original definition used by the French and Karl Marx, it is a form of anarchism. In Karl Marx's case, it is a form of anarchism that was to come after the institution of transitional authoritarian socialism.

That, and the fact that Karl Marx convinced himself that capital wasn't needed to conduct trade between communes, is why I am not a Marxist.

Yes indeed, Marx was an Anarchist,
"Anarchism, blowing up innocent people since 1880's
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/27/2015 6:50:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 3:48:22 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever

I don't doubt that. I'm fairly conservative myself. But in some scenarios communism isn't that bad. Not that it's the best, but it's not evil.
Thats right, soviet torture camps are "A O K".
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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10/27/2015 12:28:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 6:49:08 AM, harrytruman wrote:
"Anarchism, blowing up innocent people since 1880's
Well we anarchists have a thing for high profile political assasinations
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/27/2015 12:55:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 4:03:15 AM, n7 wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever
I read "Jamestown" as "Jonestown" and thought you were joking or something...

Lol, no I'm serious. But did you know that Jonestown was actually a communist religious retreat? As somebody deeply fascinated with cults, I can tell you that Jim Jones was a communist at heart, as was his retreat. (At least that was the ideal)
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,750
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10/27/2015 1:59:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 6:48:05 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.

Ahh, the catholic church, burning heretics since 200 A.D.

Actually I was talking about the church in like 30 AD. Maybe you should read the Bible sometime if you're going to call yourself Christian. They shared literally everything with each other to support the community of like a couple thousand people. Im not sure whether it would classify as a socialist or communist society, but it's something you'd probably consider evil, except that it was actually endorsed by God, so there's that
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,750
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10/27/2015 2:00:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 6:50:14 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:48:22 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever

I don't doubt that. I'm fairly conservative myself. But in some scenarios communism isn't that bad. Not that it's the best, but it's not evil.
Thats right, soviet torture camps are "A O K".

You have no idea what communism is or the scenarios I'm talking about. But of course, I don't mind the insulting anti-intellectual comments from you. Keep them coming.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/28/2015 2:59:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 2:00:43 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 6:50:14 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:48:22 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever

I don't doubt that. I'm fairly conservative myself. But in some scenarios communism isn't that bad. Not that it's the best, but it's not evil.
Thats right, soviet torture camps are "A O K".

You have no idea what communism is or the scenarios I'm talking about. But of course, I don't mind the insulting anti-intellectual comments from you. Keep them coming.
Communism gives too much power to the goveronment, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,750
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10/28/2015 3:31:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 2:59:36 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 2:00:43 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 6:50:14 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:48:22 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever

I don't doubt that. I'm fairly conservative myself. But in some scenarios communism isn't that bad. Not that it's the best, but it's not evil.
Thats right, soviet torture camps are "A O K".

You have no idea what communism is or the scenarios I'm talking about. But of course, I don't mind the insulting anti-intellectual comments from you. Keep them coming.
Communism gives too much power to the goveronment, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

What about the church ran by the disciples? At least the size of a city, and it worked like a communist government. Everyone was happy, and no one was oppressed.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/28/2015 4:36:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 3:31:01 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/28/2015 2:59:36 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 2:00:43 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 6:50:14 AM, harrytruman wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:48:22 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:36:12 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/27/2015 3:08:09 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 10/25/2015 11:22:33 PM, harrytruman wrote:
http://www.experienceproject.com...
Tell me what you think about it.

Kind of ignores the goals of true communism.

Also, it ignores the good societies that worked under a similar model. Like the early Christian church was basically a socialist society, and it worked really well. Everyone was happy.
Did you know that Jamestown was almost a failure because it had a communist model? What saved it was a republican taking over and kicking stuff into gear and starting the best colony ever

I don't doubt that. I'm fairly conservative myself. But in some scenarios communism isn't that bad. Not that it's the best, but it's not evil.
Thats right, soviet torture camps are "A O K".

You have no idea what communism is or the scenarios I'm talking about. But of course, I don't mind the insulting anti-intellectual comments from you. Keep them coming.
Communism gives too much power to the goveronment, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

What about the church ran by the disciples? At least the size of a city, and it worked like a communist government. Everyone was happy, and no one was oppressed.
Oh, you were referring to the early church, well if you actually read the bible you will notice that certain people were mooching on the church, causing them to be unable to support widows and orphans, likewise to people mooching on welfare even though they can work, which leaves less money for struggling families who need it.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/28/2015 4:39:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 12:28:38 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 10/27/2015 6:49:08 AM, harrytruman wrote:
"Anarchism, blowing up innocent people since 1880's
Well we anarchists have a thing for high profile political assasinations

Ooh a Anarchist.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/28/2015 4:40:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 12:28:38 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 10/27/2015 6:49:08 AM, harrytruman wrote:
"Anarchism, blowing up innocent people since 1880's
Well we anarchists have a thing for high profile political assasinations

Ooh a Anarchist, i dont think ive ever met a anarchist before.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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10/30/2015 11:11:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have quite a few things to say about this.

1) 'Communist country/state' is a contradiction, communism is stateless.

2) Communism has actually existed in the past in certain forms. In 1936 the Catalonian economy boomed as a result of socialist and communist policies carried out by the CNT-FAI, and lifted hundreds of thousands out of poverty for a short period of time before Franco invaded. Makhnovist Ukraine had varying success as well, but was dismantled due to Trotsky invading with the Red Army. Shinmin in Korea also had success, and held their own against the Empire of Japan for 3 years before falling. Also, the Zapatistas institute a system that is very communistic, and have been operating in Chiapas for 20 years now. The Kurds also have had a system based on communism implemented across Iraq and Syria since 1999. The list goes on.

3) Nowhere in any of Marx's writing does he speak of human nature being completely benevolent and selfish acts being evil. Nor do I think there have been in any communist's writing but I am not sure since there are many.

4) Marxism =! Communism, both fit into different categories. Marxism is simply a sub-category of communist theory, and many communists (especially today) are not Marxist communists.

5) The Soviet Union was not a communist society, as A) It meets none of the criteria for one (there was a state, class divisions, money, and hardly any power for the working class). B) It never explicitly claimed to be one, and simply stated it was 'moving towards communism' (which, in reality, it wasn't). C) The USSR was really only socialist in name, and hardly had any socialist policies implemented. Lenin himself stated that Russia needed to move through a period of state-capitalism before power could be given to the workers, since he thought Russia wasn't 'advanced' enough for socialism yet.

6) In communism, one wouldn't be 'forced' to believe in a certain god or religion or ideology or whatnot. Nor would one be forced to work. Asked? Persuaded? Perhaps, but never forced, nor would the work be as menial as capitalist society makes it, nor would it be alienating.

7) The only reason why the Soviet Union is seen as communist is due to the propaganda war between the USA and the USSR during the Cold War. The USA was claiming that the system the Soviet Union had, forced labor camps and all, was communism, and even let this seep into the education system of basically every first world country. The USSR however, attempted to call its system a transitional stage between capitalism and communism, and basically told its citizen of what communism was and told them that if they worked hard enough for their country, they would achieve it (which is categorically false and an outright lie), essentially trying to turn communism into some messed up Russian fairy-tale.

8) Markets, for the most part, would cease to exist in a communist society, as would wage labor, so this person's arguments aren't a very good critique of communism itself, and really just shows ignorance of communism as a whole. Honestly, it just seems like a strawman to me.

9) I feel sorry for this person if they indeed lived within the Soviet Union, as it was one of the biggest mistakes in history following the October Revolution. But calling it communist is misleading.

10) Communism is probably the most misunderstood school of thought ever, next to anarchism.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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10/31/2015 9:27:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 11:11:56 PM, Chimera wrote:
I have quite a few things to say about this.

1) 'Communist country/state' is a contradiction, communism is stateless.
No, communism is when the government owns everything.
2) Communism has actually existed in the past in certain forms. In 1936 the Catalonian economy boomed as a result of socialist and communist policies carried out by the CNT-FAI, and lifted hundreds of thousands out of poverty for a short period of time before Franco invaded. Makhnovist Ukraine had varying success as well, but was dismantled due to Trotsky invading with the Red Army. Shinmin in Korea also had success, and held their own against the Empire of Japan for 3 years before falling. Also, the Zapatistas institute a system that is very communistic, and have been operating in Chiapas for 20 years now. The Kurds also have had a system based on communism implemented across Iraq and Syria since 1999. The list goes on.
Uh, I don't get it.
3) Nowhere in any of Marx's writing does he speak of human nature being completely benevolent and selfish acts being evil. Nor do I think there have been in any communist's writing but I am not sure since there are many.
uhhbb...
4) Marxism =! Communism, both fit into different categories. Marxism is simply a sub-category of communist theory, and many communists (especially today) are not Marxist communists.
no.
5) The Soviet Union was not a communist society, as A) It meets none of the criteria for one (there was a state, class divisions, money, and hardly any power for the working class). B) It never explicitly claimed to be one, and simply stated it was 'moving towards communism' (which, in reality, it wasn't). C) The USSR was really only socialist in name, and hardly had any socialist policies implemented. Lenin himself stated that Russia needed to move through a period of state-capitalism before power could be given to the workers, since he thought Russia wasn't 'advanced' enough for socialism yet.
uhh, no.
6) In communism, one wouldn't be 'forced' to believe in a certain god or religion or ideology or whatnot. Nor would one be forced to work. Asked? Persuaded? Perhaps, but never forced, nor would the work be as menial as capitalist society makes it, nor would it be alienating.
No, that would mean that everyone would laze around and starve to death.
7) The only reason why the Soviet Union is seen as communist is due to the propaganda war between the USA and the USSR during the Cold War. The USA was claiming that the system the Soviet Union had, forced labor camps and all, was communism, and even let this seep into the education system of basically every first world country. The USSR however, attempted to call its system a transitional stage between capitalism and communism, and basically told its citizen of what communism was and told them that if they worked hard enough for their country, they would achieve it (which is categorically false and an outright lie), essentially trying to turn communism into some messed up Russian fairy-tale.
meh, .
8) Markets, for the most part, would cease to exist in a communist society, as would wage labor, so this person's arguments aren't a very good critique of communism itself, and really just shows ignorance of communism as a whole. Honestly, it just seems like a strawman to me.
uhh, no not true
9) I feel sorry for this person if they indeed lihttp://www.debate.org... within the Soviet Union, as it was one of the biggest mistakes in history following the October Revolution. But calling it communist is misleading.

10) Communism is probably the most misunderstood school of thought ever, next to anarchism.
No, it's evil, trust me, I got 5 bucks in my pocket.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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11/1/2015 7:25:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/31/2015 9:27:27 AM, harrytruman wrote:
No, that would mean that everyone would laze around and starve to death.

Really? Just because people aren't threatened with structural violence means they will starve to death?

People would still work towards manufacturing and gathering food within a communist society because of the simple fact that nobody wishes to starve.

No, it's evil, trust me, I got 5 bucks in my pocket.

You might want to work a little on your argument for communism being, just sayin'.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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11/1/2015 8:37:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/1/2015 7:38:19 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 11/1/2015 7:25:18 PM, Chimera wrote:
So according to with what you posted, North Korea is not a communist state?

Short answer: No, they aren't.

Long answer: No, but they don't claim to be either. They claim to be a socialist democratic republic, which they are definitely not. They say they are 'working towards' communism, which is a complete lie and can clearly be seen as such with how they torture their citizens, empower the state whilst they repress the working class, and generally try to pass a fat idiot off as, essentially, a god while giving him control of nearly every facet of life in the DPRK.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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11/1/2015 8:38:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/1/2015 7:25:18 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 10/31/2015 9:27:27 AM, harrytruman wrote:
No, that would mean that everyone would laze around and starve to death.

Really? Just because people aren't threatened with structural violence means they will starve to death?

People would still work towards manufacturing and gathering food within a communist society because of the simple fact that nobody wishes to starve.

No, it's evil, trust me, I got 5 bucks in my pocket.

You might want to work a little on your argument for communism being evil, just sayin'.

Fixed typo