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Are Morals important?

Loserboi
Posts: 1,232
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9/24/2010 8:03:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I remember in high school I was in the academy of finance. They spent the entire time teaching us how to run a moral business. Do you feel it is necessary for a business to have morals. Can having morals destroy a business? I mean how many morally run big businesses are there?
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/24/2010 8:20:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 8:03:04 PM, Loserboi wrote:
I remember in high school I was in the academy of finance. They spent the entire time teaching us how to run a moral business. Do you feel it is necessary for a business to have morals. Can having morals destroy a business? I mean how many morally run big businesses are there?

Wal-Mart isn't a 'moral' business and it's doing well. Morals and ethics aren't necessary but they are preferred by the workers.

-inb4 Reasoning claims there are no morals-
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There are no morals.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/24/2010 9:02:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 8:56:39 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:20:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
-inb4 Reasoning claims there are no morals-

Don't you agree with him?

I don't believe anyone has the ability to claim they hold the universal truth to morality. I'm doubtful of the existence of morals. And see little reason for having morals in the first place.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/24/2010 9:06:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:02:13 PM, annhasle wrote:
I'm doubtful of the existence of morals. And see little reason for having morals in the first place.

Then you're a nihilist.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/24/2010 9:09:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 8:20:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:03:04 PM, Loserboi wrote:
I remember in high school I was in the academy of finance. They spent the entire time teaching us how to run a moral business. Do you feel it is necessary for a business to have morals. Can having morals destroy a business? I mean how many morally run big businesses are there?

Wal-Mart isn't a 'moral' business and it's doing well. Morals and ethics aren't necessary but they are preferred by the workers.
What's immoral about it? It has to pursue the best value for its dollar. To do this, it needs an evaluative code. ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/24/2010 9:17:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:06:42 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:02:13 PM, annhasle wrote:
I'm doubtful of the existence of morals. And see little reason for having morals in the first place.

Then you're a nihilist.

I've agreed on multiple points in both areas... I'll probably end up agreeing with one sooner or later.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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9/24/2010 9:22:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:17:39 PM, annhasle wrote:
I've agreed on multiple points in both areas... I'll probably end up agreeing with one sooner or later.

You should read Max Stirner.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/24/2010 9:29:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:22:23 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:17:39 PM, annhasle wrote:
I've agreed on multiple points in both areas... I'll probably end up agreeing with one sooner or later.

You should read Max Stirner.

I actually have read some of his work. The Ego and It's Own was a VERY good piece of writing. :D
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Reasoning
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9/24/2010 9:52:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:29:14 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:22:23 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:17:39 PM, annhasle wrote:
I've agreed on multiple points in both areas... I'll probably end up agreeing with one sooner or later.

You should read Max Stirner.

I actually have read some of his work. The Ego and It's Own was a VERY good piece of writing. :D

<3
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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9/24/2010 10:31:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:29:14 PM, annhasle wrote:
I actually have read some of his work. The Ego and It's Own was a VERY good piece of writing. :D

So... What are you doing later?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/24/2010 10:36:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 10:31:30 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:29:14 PM, annhasle wrote:
I actually have read some of his work. The Ego and It's Own was a VERY good piece of writing. :D

So... What are you doing later?

LOL Come on, I bet there are other people who like his work on DDO! You have to respect a writer like him.... :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2010 12:08:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
There are no morals.

Do you never feel guilt or shame?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/25/2010 12:13:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/25/2010 12:08:22 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
There are no morals.

Do you never feel guilt or shame?

That doesn't come from morals. Humans are naturally empathetic and emotion driven... It's one of our major pitfalls as a race.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/25/2010 12:15:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/25/2010 12:13:50 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/25/2010 12:08:22 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
There are no morals.

Do you never feel guilt or shame?

That doesn't come from morals. Humans are naturally empathetic and emotion driven... It's one of our major pitfalls as a species.

Fix'd
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/25/2010 12:19:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/25/2010 12:13:50 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/25/2010 12:08:22 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
There are no morals.

Do you never feel guilt or shame?

That doesn't come from morals. Humans are naturally empathetic and emotion driven... It's one of our major pitfalls as a race.

Doesn't it? I thought that was pretty much what morals were. I mean sure we have innate capacity for certain things, but essentially morality is a conditioned guilt/shame/(fear?) reflex. Being empathically driven is a good thing for the species though.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/25/2010 12:29:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/25/2010 12:19:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/25/2010 12:13:50 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/25/2010 12:08:22 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
There are no morals.

Do you never feel guilt or shame?

That doesn't come from morals. Humans are naturally empathetic and emotion driven... It's one of our major pitfalls as a race.

Doesn't it? I thought that was pretty much what morals were. I mean sure we have innate capacity for certain things, but essentially morality is a conditioned guilt/shame/(fear?) reflex. Being empathically driven is a good thing for the species though.

Morality is more of an in-depth reflection of right and wrong. Whereas if you did something wrong, you'd have the reflexive feeling of guilt or shame. That comes from emotion.

Like, if you were to kill someone, you'd feel guilty. And the more you'd have to live with such a situation and reflect upon your violation of a moral, the worse you'd feel. (This is assuming you have morals)

You can feel guilty without morals, it would just be an unfounded emotion that would slowly decline in potency over time. Some though wouldn't feel that reflexive emotion but I have yet to find such a person.

Logic is more helpful than emotion. Emotions are rash, unpredictable and easy to manipulate.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/25/2010 12:34:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 9:06:42 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:02:13 PM, annhasle wrote:
I don't believe anyone has the ability to claim they hold the universal truth to morality. I'm doubtful of the existence of morals.And see little reason for having morals in the first place.

Then you're a nihilist.

Sounds more like moral skepticism to me.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/25/2010 12:35:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/25/2010 12:34:15 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:06:42 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/24/2010 9:02:13 PM, annhasle wrote:
I don't believe anyone has the ability to claim they hold the universal truth to morality. I'm doubtful of the existence of morals.And see little reason for having morals in the first place.

Then you're a nihilist.

Sounds more like moral skepticism to me.

I don't know yet. >_<

Both are VERY compatible with my views... I'm a little closer to moral skepticism but who knows...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/25/2010 9:23:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/25/2010 12:15:26 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/25/2010 12:13:50 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/25/2010 12:08:22 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:20:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
There are no morals.

Do you never feel guilt or shame?

That doesn't come from morals. Humans are naturally empathetic and emotion driven... It's one of our major pitfalls as a species.

Fix'd

You might want to reconsider the pronoun, which implies universality.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/25/2010 9:36:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
To answer the OP: Even if moral nihilism or skepticism is correct, society still has a sense of "morality" applicable to the culture you live in. I'd say it's important to abide by some sort of similar or acceptable moral conduct in order to be successful. Plus, since many laws are largely based on the concept of immoral vs. moral actions (eg. stealing is immoral, so against the law) then if you neglect those standards you could be punished.
President of DDO
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/25/2010 10:38:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 8:20:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/24/2010 8:03:04 PM, Loserboi wrote:
I remember in high school I was in the academy of finance. They spent the entire time teaching us how to run a moral business. Do you feel it is necessary for a business to have morals. Can having morals destroy a business? I mean how many morally run big businesses are there?

Wal-Mart isn't a 'moral' business and it's doing well. Morals and ethics aren't necessary but they are preferred by the workers.


They are necessary.
Society dictates morals, if wal-mart was not moral then society would not let it thrive, or the media would exploit it.

-inb4 Reasoning claims there are no morals-
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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9/25/2010 10:41:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 8:03:04 PM, Loserboi wrote:
I remember in high school I was in the academy of finance. They spent the entire time teaching us how to run a moral business. Do you feel it is necessary for a business to have morals.:

Without business ethics, there is no point in conducting business with that business. Of course it is important for a business to adhere to an ethical code of standards. They won't survive long on unscrupulous tactics.

Can having morals destroy a business? I mean how many morally run big businesses are there?:

Since morals are completely subjective, you're going to have to give some examples of what morals you are referring to.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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9/25/2010 10:45:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't believe anyone has the ability to claim they hold the universal truth to morality. I'm doubtful of the existence of morals. And see little reason for having morals in the first place.:

There is a vast difference between relative morality vs moral absolutes and no morality whatsoever. If society didn't abide by some morals, like, "It's not cool to molest little children" we'd have a far worse society than we already do.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/25/2010 11:02:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Morals are necessary for social animals like humans. Social animals derive benefits from interacting with each other. For interactions to be beneficial, there have to be rules. For example, there has to be some level of trust among the participants.

Morality is essential for business. If customers do not trust the business, the business will fail. If contracts with suppliers are not honored, then suppliers won't provide the goods and services the business needs. Business must compete for good employees, and if they treat employees dishonestly, word gets out and it will be the downfall of the business.

No one in business wants to compete with a dishonest competitor. That's one of the important factors that keeps business honest.

None of the mechanisms work perfectly or instantaneously. In the long run, however, they work well.

Objection to companies like Walmart generally have to do with their failure to adhere to some impractical social agenda that the person is pushing. For example, in the Senate campaign here in California, Babara Box is running attack ads against Carly Fiorina, claiming that HP's CEO she shipped jobs overseas. Fiorina did send jobs overseas. The alternative was to let HP go out of business. HP could not possibly compete with those doing low cost assembly work in China and Southeast Asia. Had HP been allowed to go out of business, all the jobs would have been lost rather than just some of them. Boxer's attack is plainly stupid.