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'Peace and Love' or 'Chaos and Blood'

BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/4/2015 9:01:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I generally find chaos to be a better alternative to peace. The love and blood part were more rhythmic than anything, since I believe love between two individuals is maximized when humans are not living a boring existence.

Like seriously, what enjoyment do people get out of living like caged animals? I want to live in an intresting and dynamic world, and society created this large jail of social expectations and norms that keep us oppressed.

I wouldn't mind more chaos in my life. A lot more struggle, emotions, and conflict. It is also the prime resource we have to better understanding ourselves and others. When we are presented with conflict, we definitely come to value certain things moreso than the status quo of peace and neglect.

If you ask me why the depression and suicide rates are so high for this generation, I would argue that is has much to do with the overall dullness of life.

People are attracted to conflict and struggle for a reason. You will have some trained liars telling you that things like WW2 and the Great Depression were terrible, like they actually shed tears for every individual who died in these times (which they don't).

Conflict and struggle is exactly what we are missing in this world. As Benito Mussolini said, it is better to live 1 day as a lion than a 1000 years as a sheep.
SM2
Posts: 546
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11/4/2015 11:20:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you want chaos and blood, go fight ISIS. I bet you'll do a complete 180 after you've seen a comrade get shot in front of you.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/4/2015 11:22:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's spelled Khaos, and yes. History has shown that nothing gets better without creative destruction.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/5/2015 12:07:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/4/2015 11:22:00 PM, Wylted wrote:
It's spelled Khaos, and yes. History has shown that nothing gets better without creative destruction.

Well in Greek it is spelled with a K. I speak English as my primary language.

Anyways I figured you would be in agreement with me.
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 12:08:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/4/2015 11:20:26 PM, SM2 wrote:
If you want chaos and blood, go fight ISIS. I bet you'll do a complete 180 after you've seen a comrade get shot in front of you.

You just assume everyone is a coward.

Given how many cowards we actually have, I do not blame you for leaping to the conclusion that I am also a coward. I just do not think a safe and caged life is worth living, and I am more scared of that than I am war.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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11/5/2015 12:25:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:08:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/4/2015 11:20:26 PM, SM2 wrote:
If you want chaos and blood, go fight ISIS. I bet you'll do a complete 180 after you've seen a comrade get shot in front of you.

You just assume everyone is a coward.

Given how many cowards we actually have, I do not blame you for leaping to the conclusion that I am also a coward. I just do not think a safe and caged life is worth living, and I am more scared of that than I am war.

If war broke out against Russia and China on this day next year, would you immediately join the U.S. military?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/5/2015 12:26:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:25:38 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/5/2015 12:08:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/4/2015 11:20:26 PM, SM2 wrote:
If you want chaos and blood, go fight ISIS. I bet you'll do a complete 180 after you've seen a comrade get shot in front of you.

You just assume everyone is a coward.

Given how many cowards we actually have, I do not blame you for leaping to the conclusion that I am also a coward. I just do not think a safe and caged life is worth living, and I am more scared of that than I am war.

If war broke out against Russia and China on this day next year, would you immediately join the U.S. military?

No, but I would try to find a place close to the conflict, either literally or metaphorically
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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11/5/2015 12:51:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:26:43 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/5/2015 12:25:38 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/5/2015 12:08:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/4/2015 11:20:26 PM, SM2 wrote:
If you want chaos and blood, go fight ISIS. I bet you'll do a complete 180 after you've seen a comrade get shot in front of you.

You just assume everyone is a coward.

Given how many cowards we actually have, I do not blame you for leaping to the conclusion that I am also a coward. I just do not think a safe and caged life is worth living, and I am more scared of that than I am war.

If war broke out against Russia and China on this day next year, would you immediately join the U.S. military?

No, but I would try to find a place close to the conflict, either literally or metaphorically

Would you try to participate as a combatant?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SM2
Posts: 546
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11/5/2015 12:56:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:08:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/4/2015 11:20:26 PM, SM2 wrote:
If you want chaos and blood, go fight ISIS. I bet you'll do a complete 180 after you've seen a comrade get shot in front of you.

You just assume everyone is a coward.

Given how many cowards we actually have, I do not blame you for leaping to the conclusion that I am also a coward. I just do not think a safe and caged life is worth living, and I am more scared of that than I am war.

I don't think you're a coward. I think you're callous and ignorant. It is one thing to desire glory in battle, but another to wish horror and bloodshed upon the innocent to satiate your own boredom. That is literally the most selfish thing a person could hope for.
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 2:15:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:56:43 AM, SM2 wrote:
I don't think you're a coward. I think you're callous and ignorant. It is one thing to desire glory in battle, but another to wish horror and bloodshed upon the innocent to satiate your own boredom. That is literally the most selfish thing a person could hope for.

Well most of the things people do are out of selfishness, but I believe it is for the benefit of others as well. It isn't just about boredom, although that plays a large part in it. Other things factor in, such as arguments that the only way to truly experience life is to live through conflict and chaos.

Of course, I wasn't accusing you of calling me ignorant. I was actually calling the majority of people to be ignorant and self righteous, like they actually give a damn when they don't.
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 2:17:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:51:52 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Would you try to participate as a combatant?

Not in a conventional sense. I have no problem with killing, and I think that is what would have to happen to survive in a wartime enviornment. Even if you serve a minor role like selling arms to militants, someone is going to want you assasinated.

I have often considered seriously considered joining certain radical militant groups, and I would probably start one of my own were I to have the resources.
SM2
Posts: 546
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11/5/2015 2:20:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:15:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
Well most of the things people do are out of selfishness,

Irrelevant.

but I believe it is for the benefit of others as well. It isn't just about boredom, although that plays a large part in it. Other things factor in, such as arguments that the only way to truly experience life is to live through conflict and chaos.

Yes, because PTSD is such a great thing.

Of course, I wasn't accusing you of calling me ignorant. I was actually calling the majority of people to be ignorant and self righteous, like they actually give a damn when they don't.

That's not a reason to have a war. It just means you mind your own business and focus on what's good for you.
Vox_Veritas
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11/5/2015 2:22:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:17:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/5/2015 12:51:52 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Would you try to participate as a combatant?

Not in a conventional sense. I have no problem with killing, and I think that is what would have to happen to survive in a wartime enviornment. Even if you serve a minor role like selling arms to militants, someone is going to want you assasinated.

I have often considered seriously considered joining certain radical militant groups, and I would probably start one of my own were I to have the resources.

And you're posting this on the public part of the internet where anybody can see it...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/5/2015 2:23:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:20:37 AM, SM2 wrote:
Irrelevant.
Not really. You accused me of being selfish, and I am kind of wondering what your point was. As in, your point?

Yes, because PTSD is such a great thing.
Most people have strong enough willpower to not get PTSD. That is primarily caused by people with low mental fortitude being involved in combat situations. I think violence and chaos is a great way to strengthen ones mental fortitude though.

That's not a reason to have a war. It just means you mind your own business and focus on what's good for you.
More inter-societal conflict is what is good for me
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 2:24:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:22:36 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/5/2015 2:17:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
I have often considered seriously considered joining certain radical militant groups, and I would probably start one of my own were I to have the resources.

And you're posting this on the public part of the internet where anybody can see it...

I think that would be a good recruiting tool if the NSA were to arrest me for this post.
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 2:25:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This might be a shocker, but supporting militarism is not illegal. One time a couple policies were enacted in major cities to curtail radical anarchists which supported violence as a means of liberation, and they were all put an end to really quickly.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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11/5/2015 2:27:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:24:01 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/5/2015 2:22:36 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/5/2015 2:17:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
I have often considered seriously considered joining certain radical militant groups, and I would probably start one of my own were I to have the resources.

And you're posting this on the public part of the internet where anybody can see it...

I think that would be a good recruiting tool if the NSA were to arrest me for this post.

Just saying; if you want to start an insurgency, my advice is to avoid all use of the internet for recruitment and DO NOT say anything on the internet that'd make you among the first people suspected if the Feds found out.
If you're not trying to start an insurgency but you can see yourself perhaps doing so in 5-10 years you still shouldn't say anything because those posts from 5-10 years may be used to your disadvantage if you eventually decide to do so.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/5/2015 2:29:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:27:11 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Just saying; if you want to start an insurgency, my advice is to avoid all use of the internet for recruitment and DO NOT say anything on the internet that'd make you among the first people suspected if the Feds found out.
If you're not trying to start an insurgency but you can see yourself perhaps doing so in 5-10 years you still shouldn't say anything because those posts from 5-10 years may be used to your disadvantage if you eventually decide to do so.

Nah, I do not want to start an insurgency. I would use radical idealism as a means to carry out international crime, which is where the money actually is. I might then use some of that wealth and channel it through other militant groups, which equates to buying influence.

Maybe I'll become reputable enough where the United States will conduct an international manhunt after me. That would certainly gain my movement traction.
SM2
Posts: 546
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11/5/2015 4:06:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 2:23:18 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/5/2015 2:20:37 AM, SM2 wrote:
Irrelevant.
Not really. You accused me of being selfish, and I am kind of wondering what your point was. As in, your point?

Many people are selfish. It is a character flaw, not an excuse to be selfish.

Yes, because PTSD is such a great thing.
Most people have strong enough willpower to not get PTSD. That is primarily caused by people with low mental fortitude being involved in combat situations. I think violence and chaos is a great way to strengthen ones mental fortitude though.

Do you actually have any real-life experience with violence and chaos?

That's not a reason to have a war. It just means you mind your own business and focus on what's good for you.
More inter-societal conflict is what is good for me

And what about the innocent civilians that get murdered and raped whenever countries go to war with each other? Is it good for them?
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 5:07:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 4:06:41 AM, SM2 wrote:
Many people are selfish. It is a character flaw, not an excuse to be selfish.
No, it is something inherent in every human being, and anyone trying to cover up their selfishness is a liar. Everything you do is to attain something, whether that be as simple as a positive emotional reaction to a tangible physical benefit.

Yes, because PTSD is such a great thing.

Do you actually have any real-life experience with violence and chaos?
Sure, everyone has had a little taste of these things. Many of us know enough to understand that the way we are living now is no way to live at all. Except those in denial or preying off their own self righteousness, ie, communists/modern liberals.

And what about the innocent civilians that get murdered and raped whenever countries go to war with each other? Is it good for them?
I already said it was. Well maybe not the people murdered, but definitely the people who survived. I would say even the people die got more excitement on the day they got killed than in a decade of their lives.

Also I do not believe in nations, so ideally I would want chaos and conflict to exist outside the bounds of sovereign nations.

I do not always denote chaos and conflict to involved physical killing, but the threat of being physically killed needs to be there. The hope is that most people would find ways to remain safe, but a level of immediate danger always has to be lurking within the boundaries of society for humans to live fullfilled lifes. Most people are dying unfulfilled.
SM2
Posts: 546
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11/5/2015 6:15:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 5:07:27 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/5/2015 4:06:41 AM, SM2 wrote:
Many people are selfish. It is a character flaw, not an excuse to be selfish.
No, it is something inherent in every human being, and anyone trying to cover up their selfishness is a liar. Everything you do is to attain something, whether that be as simple as a positive emotional reaction to a tangible physical benefit.

"Selfish" means to do something for yourself without regard for others. Not all acts of attainment are selfish; most are neutral, and a few are mutually beneficial. Being less selfish is not about denying your flaws, it's about considering other people before you act.


Yes, because PTSD is such a great thing.

Do you actually have any real-life experience with violence and chaos?
Sure, everyone has had a little taste of these things. Many of us know enough to understand that the way we are living now is no way to live at all. Except those in denial or preying off their own self righteousness, ie, communists/modern liberals.

So you haven't then. You're just a crazy radical with no life experience.


And what about the innocent civilians that get murdered and raped whenever countries go to war with each other? Is it good for them?
I already said it was. Well maybe not the people murdered, but definitely the people who survived. I would say even the people die got more excitement on the day they got killed than in a decade of their lives.

Watching your village burn and your friends die is not exciting, it's fucking_depressing.


Also I do not believe in nations, so ideally I would want chaos and conflict to exist outside the bounds of sovereign nations.

Nations, like most things in the real world, exist independently of your belief in them.


I do not always denote chaos and conflict to involved physical killing, but the threat of being physically killed needs to be there. The hope is that most people would find ways to remain safe, but a level of immediate danger always has to be lurking within the boundaries of society for humans to live fullfilled lifes. Most people are dying unfulfilled.

Danger leads to increased government surveillance. I doubt you'd want that.
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 11:29:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 6:15:38 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 11/5/2015 5:07:27 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
"Selfish" means to do something for yourself without regard for others. Not all acts of attainment are selfish; most are neutral, and a few are mutually beneficial. Being less selfish is not about denying your flaws, it's about considering other people before you act.
I can buy that. I did indeed consider other people though.

So you haven't then. You're just a crazy radical with no life experience.
Well I am pretty irrelevant in this debate. I definitely have life experience though, and I can tell you that my experience is that life is nihl and meaningless without conflict.

Watching your village burn and your friends die is not exciting, it's fucking_depressing.
Yes, and I was trying to imply that we need more tragedy in our lives anyways. Conflict produces all the events which make life dynamic. Nobody wants to go 100 years living a stagnant existence.

Nations, like most things in the real world, exist independently of your belief in them.
I know, and the abolition of nations creates a level of both chaos and peace. True freedom, but also a fighting spirit to protect said freedom.

Danger leads to increased government surveillance. I doubt you'd want that.
Actually I want more justifications to abolish the nation-state. Anarchists are not directly opposed to governments, in the free association community sense.
SM2
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11/5/2015 11:56:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 11:29:14 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/5/2015 6:15:38 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 11/5/2015 5:07:27 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
"Selfish" means to do something for yourself without regard for others. Not all acts of attainment are selfish; most are neutral, and a few are mutually beneficial. Being less selfish is not about denying your flaws, it's about considering other people before you act.
I can buy that. I did indeed consider other people though.

No you didn't. You wish conflict upon them, claiming it's in their best interests, but you don't consider that most people don't want conflict.


So you haven't then. You're just a crazy radical with no life experience.
Well I am pretty irrelevant in this debate. I definitely have life experience though, and I can tell you that my experience is that life is nihl and meaningless without conflict.

Most people get along just fine without it. You're the only one with a problem here.


Watching your village burn and your friends die is not exciting, it's fucking_depressing.
Yes, and I was trying to imply that we need more tragedy in our lives anyways. Conflict produces all the events which make life dynamic. Nobody wants to go 100 years living a stagnant existence.

That kind of tragedy is horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

A life free of the horrors of war is not "stagnant".


Nations, like most things in the real world, exist independently of your belief in them.
I know, and the abolition of nations creates a level of both chaos and peace. True freedom, but also a fighting spirit to protect said freedom.

No, it just creates an opening for power-hungry warlords.


Danger leads to increased government surveillance. I doubt you'd want that.
Actually I want more justifications to abolish the nation-state. Anarchists are not directly opposed to governments, in the free association community sense.

Anarchists are deluded. Been there, done that, and then I grew up.
JMcKinley
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11/5/2015 3:23:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hopefully you're just ignorant. If not, the only remaining option is that you're full-on stupid.

Unless of course you're a troll... in which case, carry on.
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 7:20:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 11:56:01 AM, SM2 wrote:
No you didn't. You wish conflict upon them, claiming it's in their best interests, but you don't consider that most people don't want conflict.

Most people do not know what they want. Most of the things we want are not what are best for us anyways.

That kind of tragedy is horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
I would, since it is what they need

A life free of the horrors of war is not "stagnant".
Then explain why not

No, it just creates an opening for power-hungry warlords.
And powerful idealism

Anarchists are deluded. Been there, done that, and then I grew up.
Good for you
BlackFlags
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11/5/2015 7:21:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 3:23:53 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
Hopefully you're just ignorant. If not, the only remaining option is that you're full-on stupid.

Unless of course you're a troll... in which case, carry on.
Want to argue or just throw insults?
SM2
Posts: 546
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11/5/2015 11:18:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 7:20:28 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
Most of the things we want are not what are best for us anyways.

You're a perfect example of that.

I would, since it is what they need

BOP, bitch.

Then explain why not

"Stagnant" implies a lack of change. People who keep moving don't become stagnant.

And powerful idealism

Which is seldom a good thing.

Good for you

I hope you grow up too, before you make the same mistakes I did.
BlackFlags
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11/6/2015 12:18:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 11:18:10 PM, SM2 wrote:
"Stagnant" implies a lack of change. People who keep moving don't become stagnant.
Yes, and my argument was that the regular lifestyle of humans are that of caged animals. See my profile pic?

I hope you grow up too, before you make the same mistakes I did.

Really man, I hear the same things with conservatives telling liberals to grow up and vice versa. It isn't an argument, but a vein appeal.
SM2
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11/6/2015 2:13:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/6/2015 12:18:12 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
See my profile pic?

Unless we completely return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, none of that is going to change.

Really man, I hear the same things with conservatives telling liberals to grow up and vice versa. It isn't an argument, but a vein appeal.

1. You mean "vain".

2. Extremism is a sign of immaturity.

3. If many people are telling you to grow up, perhaps you should listen?