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The Age of Consent

GeoLaureate8
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9/29/2010 2:26:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:21:53 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
18. It seems to be the age for everything else. It might as well be consistent.

Consistency =/= Good, nor does it make something justifiable.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/29/2010 2:27:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:26:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:21:53 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
18. It seems to be the age for everything else. It might as well be consistent.

Consistency =/= Good, nor does it make something justifiable.

This may not hold true for everybody, but I do feel that at 18 most people would be able to make more responsible decisions.
gerrandesquire
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9/29/2010 2:33:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think 21 would be better, since the people have actually settled down by then. Completed studies, got a job, their outlook in life broadens. And also, the raging hormones have kind of settled down. On the whole, they are in a position to make wiser decisions.
InsertNameHere
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9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.
GeoLaureate8
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9/29/2010 2:34:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:27:23 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:26:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:21:53 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
18. It seems to be the age for everything else. It might as well be consistent.

Consistency =/= Good, nor does it make something justifiable.

This may not hold true for everybody,

It's a fact that consistency is not necessarily good and therefore not a valid argument.

You're basically saying that in some people's opinion, consistent is good, therefore 18 should be the age of consent by principle of being consistent.

but I do feel that at 18 most people would be able to make more responsible decisions.

Yeah, the suicide bombers who were over 18 were very responsible on 9/11.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 2:35:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

Who are you to tell them they're not responsible?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
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9/29/2010 2:41:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

I'm pretty sure that adults end up getting pregnant FAR more than sexually active teens who just hit puberty.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gerrandesquire
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9/29/2010 2:43:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:41:29 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

I'm pretty sure that adults end up getting pregnant FAR more than sexually active teens who just hit puberty.

but the life of sexually active teens is compromised more.
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 3:02:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:43:04 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:41:29 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

I'm pretty sure that adults end up getting pregnant FAR more than sexually active teens who just hit puberty.

but the life of sexually active teens is compromised more.

Back this up.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Puck
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9/29/2010 3:11:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:41:29 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

I'm pretty sure that adults end up getting pregnant FAR more than sexually active teens who just hit puberty.

19-24 does exceed 15-18 for unintended pregnancies. Fairly sure the U.S. still tops the list for industrialised western countries too.
tvellalott
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9/29/2010 3:12:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
People should be able to start voting when they are sixteen.
They shouldn't be able to buy alcohol until they are twenty-one.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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gerrandesquire
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9/29/2010 3:14:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:02:23 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:43:04 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:41:29 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

I'm pretty sure that adults end up getting pregnant FAR more than sexually active teens who just hit puberty.

but the life of sexually active teens is compromised more.

Back this up.

teen:14-18year old.
sexually active: engaging in sexual acts, actively. Actively implies at least more than once a week.

now, if a teen, with raging hormones, who is just experiencing the changes in his/ her body, becomes sexually active, he would either be thoroughly excited/ confused/ disgusted with himself. He cannot be normal, implying he wouldn't just do the act and not even think about t later in the day. In fact, he would constantly think about it, and would that would lead to his lack of concentration in studies/ or in other fields he is active in(sports/arts, etc)

teenage is the age a person is expected to study in order to build his career. This is the most stressful time in the sense that suddenly there is a lot of pressure for actually taking charge of his/her life. So actually allowing them to fvck around is not the most logical thing to do. Let them grow up first, give them responsibilities slowly, one by one.
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 3:15:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:12:14 AM, tvellalott wrote:
People should be able to start voting when they are sixteen.
They shouldn't be able to buy alcohol until they are twenty-one.

....and...the age of consent??
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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9/29/2010 3:15:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 2:34:09 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:27:23 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:26:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:21:53 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
18. It seems to be the age for everything else. It might as well be consistent.

Consistency =/= Good, nor does it make something justifiable.

This may not hold true for everybody,

It's a fact that consistency is not necessarily good and therefore not a valid argument.

You're basically saying that in some people's opinion, consistent is good, therefore 18 should be the age of consent by principle of being consistent.
But in this case it is good. 18 is when you come of age. You are no longer a minor.You parents are no longer responsible for you(legally) If you think it should be lower, than perhaps we should allow parents to throw kids who hit puberty out on the streets.

but I do feel that at 18 most people would be able to make more responsible decisions.

Yeah, the suicide bombers who were over 18 were very responsible on 9/11.
Makes absolutely no sense and is entirely irrelevant.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
tvellalott
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9/29/2010 3:19:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:15:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:12:14 AM, tvellalott wrote:
People should be able to start voting when they are sixteen.
They shouldn't be able to buy alcohol until they are twenty-one.

....and...the age of consent??

Oh right, I totally missed the point of this topic. Derp derp.

Erm, it should vary depending on both parties. I discussed this in another forum. Starting from 13, as long as the other party is no more than two years older than you it is fine. Teach these children about contraception early for fvcks sake.
However, once someone reachs 17, they should be legally be able to have a relationship with anyone they want.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/29/2010 3:20:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:14:07 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:02:23 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:43:04 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:41:29 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:33:31 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:31:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Isn't the beginning of puberty the most logical point?

Just because somebody has hit puberty it doesn't mean they're responsible enough to consent to sex.

I'm pretty sure that adults end up getting pregnant FAR more than sexually active teens who just hit puberty.

but the life of sexually active teens is compromised more.

Back this up.

teen:14-18year old.
sexually active: engaging in sexual acts, actively. Actively implies at least more than once a week.

now, if a teen, with raging hormones, who is just experiencing the changes in his/ her body, becomes sexually active, he would either be thoroughly excited/ confused/ disgusted with himself. He cannot be normal, implying he wouldn't just do the act and not even think about t later in the day. In fact, he would constantly think about it, and would that would lead to his lack of concentration in studies/ or in other fields he is active in(sports/arts, etc)

teenage is the age a person is expected to study in order to build his career. This is the most stressful time in the sense that suddenly there is a lot of pressure for actually taking charge of his/her life. So actually allowing them to fvck around is not the most logical thing to do. Let them grow up first, give them responsibilities slowly, one by one.

Funny how sex doesn't seem to have such a catastrophic effect, as you imply, on having a job, for adults. The hormones occur throughout puberty and puberty doesn't stop till around 25 years of age. Should the age of consent be 26?

I think you're just grabbing for excuses.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/29/2010 3:21:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:19:26 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:15:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:12:14 AM, tvellalott wrote:
People should be able to start voting when they are sixteen.
They shouldn't be able to buy alcohol until they are twenty-one.

....and...the age of consent??

Oh right, I totally missed the point of this topic. Derp derp.

Erm, it should vary depending on both parties. I discussed this in another forum. Starting from 13, as long as the other party is no more than two years older than you it is fine. Teach these children about contraception early for fvcks sake.
However, once someone reachs 17, they should be legally be able to have a relationship with anyone they want.

If someone is old enough to have sex then why does it matter how old the other person is?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/29/2010 3:25:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:15:19 AM, MarquisX wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:34:09 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:27:23 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:26:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Consistency =/= Good, nor does it make something justifiable.

This may not hold true for everybody,

It's a fact that consistency is not necessarily good and therefore not a valid argument.

You're basically saying that in some people's opinion, consistent is good, therefore 18 should be the age of consent by principle of being consistent.
But in this case it is good. 18 is when you come of age. You are no longer a minor.

Scientifically or according to the government? ...That's what I thought.

Also, there's a reason why puberty hits when it does. It is specifically for having sex! Nature dictates that that is the appropriate time period to start sex. Any other argument for another age is simply an appeal to emotion.

You parents are no longer responsible for you(legally)

I don't care about the law. Legally, you can't smoke weed, but that doesn't mean we ought not to do so or that such an action is moral. Appealing to the law is futile when seeking to justify a proposition.

If you think it should be lower, than perhaps we should allow parents to throw kids who hit puberty out on the streets.

Non-sequitur fallacy. In fact, it is so blatant, I can't believe you made this argument.

but I do feel that at 18 most people would be able to make more responsible decisions.

Yeah, the suicide bombers who were over 18 were very responsible on 9/11.
Makes absolutely no sense and is entirely irrelevant.

Let me spell it out for you since you don't seem to get it. Insert made the argument that people 18 and over make more responsible decisions so I provided an example of over-18 people who make irresponsible decisions, which is thus evidence against her notion.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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9/29/2010 3:28:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago

teenage is the age a person is expected to study in order to build his career. This is the most stressful time in the sense that suddenly there is a lot of pressure for actually taking charge of his/her life. So actually allowing them to fvck around is not the most logical thing to do. Let them grow up first, give them responsibilities slowly, one by one.

Funny how sex doesn't seem to have such a catastrophic effect, as you imply, on having a job, for adults.
Adults are teens? No.
Adults have just started noticing changes in their bodies and are itching to try them out? No

The hormones occur throughout puberty and puberty doesn't stop till around 25 years of age. Should the age of consent be 26?

I specifically recall saying that the responsibilities should be given to them slowly, one by one, so that they can actually take charge of their lives. Dumping everything that puberty allows a person to do, just because they can, and expect them to go through the act responsibly without letting their future suffer, is not the smartest thing to do.

I think you're just grabbing for excuses.
did you even read my argument?
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/29/2010 3:28:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:21:34 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:19:26 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:15:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:12:14 AM, tvellalott wrote:
People should be able to start voting when they are sixteen.
They shouldn't be able to buy alcohol until they are twenty-one.

....and...the age of consent??

Oh right, I totally missed the point of this topic. Derp derp.

Erm, it should vary depending on both parties. I discussed this in another forum. Starting from 13, as long as the other party is no more than two years older than you it is fine. Teach these children about contraception early for fvcks sake.
However, once someone reachs 17, they should be legally be able to have a relationship with anyone they want.

If someone is old enough to have sex then why does it matter how old the other person is?

Because teenagers are still minors in my eye. It's like weight divisions in boxing. A minor can have sex with a minor in their own class, but an adult can't have sex with a minor for all the reason they can't under our current laws.
Teenagers are horny, emotional wrecks. It seems logical to legally restrict them to only have sex with each other.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/29/2010 3:36:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:28:29 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

teenage is the age a person is expected to study in order to build his career. This is the most stressful time in the sense that suddenly there is a lot of pressure for actually taking charge of his/her life. So actually allowing them to fvck around is not the most logical thing to do. Let them grow up first, give them responsibilities slowly, one by one.

Funny how sex doesn't seem to have such a catastrophic effect, as you imply, on having a job, for adults.
Adults are teens? No.

Both a 13 year old an a 20 year old are in puberty.

Adults have just started noticing changes in their bodies and are itching to try them out? No

Lol, people don't suddenly stop wanting sex after they lose their virginity.

The hormones occur throughout puberty and puberty doesn't stop till around 25 years of age. Should the age of consent be 26?

I specifically recall saying that the responsibilities should be given to them slowly, one by one, so that they can actually take charge of their lives. Dumping everything that puberty allows a person to do, just because they can, and expect them to go through the act responsibly without letting their future suffer, is not the smartest thing to do.

DO you seriously think laws are going to make teens more responsible with sex? Hahaha. Spend the same revenue on education programs.

I think you're just grabbing for excuses.
did you even read my argument?

Yes, It's a completely assumption.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 3:38:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:28:51 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:21:34 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:19:26 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:15:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:12:14 AM, tvellalott wrote:
People should be able to start voting when they are sixteen.
They shouldn't be able to buy alcohol until they are twenty-one.

....and...the age of consent??

Oh right, I totally missed the point of this topic. Derp derp.

Erm, it should vary depending on both parties. I discussed this in another forum. Starting from 13, as long as the other party is no more than two years older than you it is fine. Teach these children about contraception early for fvcks sake.
However, once someone reachs 17, they should be legally be able to have a relationship with anyone they want.

If someone is old enough to have sex then why does it matter how old the other person is?

Because teenagers are still minors in my eye. It's like weight divisions in boxing. A minor can have sex with a minor in their own class, but an adult can't have sex with a minor for all the reason they can't under our current laws.
Teenagers are horny, emotional wrecks. It seems logical to legally restrict them to only have sex with each other.

Lol..Pardon but, all that is is emotionally upheld taboos with no practical significance.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 3:39:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Why do people suffer from the impression that laws always make things go away?

Laws against teen sex =/= less teen sex.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 3:40:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:39:18 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Why do people suffer from the impression that laws always make things go away?

Laws against teen sex =/= less teen sex.

You might as well set the law to be around when they would choose to do it themselves anyway.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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9/29/2010 3:42:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:25:34 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:15:19 AM, MarquisX wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:34:09 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:27:23 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/29/2010 2:26:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Consistency =/= Good, nor does it make something justifiable.

This may not hold true for everybody,

It's a fact that consistency is not necessarily good and therefore not a valid argument.

You're basically saying that in some people's opinion, consistent is good, therefore 18 should be the age of consent by principle of being consistent.
But in this case it is good. 18 is when you come of age. You are no longer a minor.

Scientifically or according to the government? ...That's what I thought.

Also, there's a reason why puberty hits when it does. It is specifically for having sex! Nature dictates that that is the appropriate time period to start sex. Any other argument for another age is simply an appeal to emotion.
Yes, and for good reason. Must people hit puberty around 13. What in science says that we shouldn't allow a 35 year old to have a 13 year old girlfriend. Or wife? If people were emotionless, then yeah let's grab the 7th grader and start making babies! Doesn't sound too good does it?

You parents are no longer responsible for you(legally)

I don't care about the law. Legally, you can't smoke weed, but that doesn't mean we ought not to do so or that such an action is moral. Appealing to the law is futile when seeking to justify a proposition.
I won't deny it. The law is stupid. It is legal for me to drive a tank down the street but I can't light a blunt. I get that. But the age of consent law is to protect and not oppress.

If you think it should be lower, than perhaps we should allow parents to throw kids who hit puberty out on the streets.

Non-sequitur fallacy. In fact, it is so blatant, I can't believe you made this argument.
Why the hell not? They're adults now right?

but I do feel that at 18 most people would be able to make more responsible decisions.

Yeah, the suicide bombers who were over 18 were very responsible on 9/11.
Makes absolutely no sense and is entirely irrelevant.

Let me spell it out for you since you don't seem to get it. Insert made the argument that people 18 and over make more responsible decisions so I provided an example of over-18 people who make irresponsible decisions, which is thus evidence against her notion.
More of your arrogance at work. Look up the definitions of irresponsible and responsible. You'll find that the hi-jackers actions were neither.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
FREEDO
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9/29/2010 3:45:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
When America was founded most of the states had their age of consent laws set around 10-12. Delaware actually had it set to 7!
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
gerrandesquire
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9/29/2010 3:46:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 3:36:42 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/29/2010 3:28:29 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

teenage is the age a person is expected to study in order to build his career. This is the most stressful time in the sense that suddenly there is a lot of pressure for actually taking charge of his/her life. So actually allowing them to fvck around is not the most logical thing to do. Let them grow up first, give them responsibilities slowly, one by one.

Funny how sex doesn't seem to have such a catastrophic effect, as you imply, on having a job, for adults.
Adults are teens? No.

Both a 13 year old an a 20 year old are in puberty.

i am defending the claim "but the life of sexually active teens is compromised more.'

Adults have just started noticing changes in their bodies and are itching to try them out? No

Lol, people don't suddenly stop wanting sex after they lose their virginity.

But they are more responsible with it.

The hormones occur throughout puberty and puberty doesn't stop till around 25 years of age. Should the age of consent be 26?

I specifically recall saying that the responsibilities should be given to them slowly, one by one, so that they can actually take charge of their lives. Dumping everything that puberty allows a person to do, just because they can, and expect them to go through the act responsibly without letting their future suffer, is not the smartest thing to do.

DO you seriously think laws are going to make teens more responsible with sex? Hahaha. Spend the same revenue on education programs.

yes, i do. At least if its illegal, there is a kind of taboo that accompanies it. They know that what they are doing will not be supported by law, and they are crossing the legal boundaries. That has to have some effect.

I think you're just grabbing for excuses.
did you even read my argument?

Yes, It's a completely assumption.

isn't that contradictory?