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Types of Feminism.

Rosalie
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12/7/2015 5:54:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This semester, I have been taking Women Studies 11 (Roles of Women). By far, this is my favorite class. When men, or women think of the word "Feminism" they think of a man hating women. A big majority of people perceive feminist that way.

I myself am a feminist, a radical feminist to be exact. But it doesn't mean I hate men at all.

In this forum, I will list the 7 types of Feminism to show that not all feminist dislike men, but they also have other theories.

(http://www.caragillis.com...)

Advocates of Radical Feminism:

Radical feminism promotes the basis for many of the ideas of feminism. They usually clash with the ideals of the liberal feminist, because radical feminists believe that society must be changed at its core in order to dissolve patriarchy, not just through acts of legislation. Unfortunately, this type of feminism also attracts a lot of negative media attention creating a backlash of feminism. Radical feminists believe that the domination of women is the oldest and worst kind of oppression in the world.

Radical-Libertarian Feminism

Radical-Libertarian feminists believe that femininity and reproduction limit women's capacity to contribute to society. Women should essentially be androgynous. Radical-Libertarian feminists like to violate sexual norms and believe that women should control every aspect of their sexuality. They also advocate artificial means of reproduction so that less time is devoted to pregnancy and more time is devoted to worthwhile things. They are strong promoters of abortion, contraceptives and other forms of birth control.

Radical-Cultural Feminism

Radical-Cultural feminist views are dramatically different from Radical-Libertarian feminists views. The Radical-Cultural feminists believe that women should encompass their femininity because it is better than masculinity. Mary Daly advocates finding the "wild female within". This type of radical feminist sees sex and penetration as male dominated. They see a link between sex, female subordination, porn, rape and abuse. These must be eliminated, according to Cultural-Radical feminists.

Advocates of Liberal Feminism:

Betty Friedan

National Organization for Women

Liberal feminism was most popular in the 1950's and 1960's when many civil rights movements were taking place. The main view of liberal feminists are that all people are created equal by God and deserve equal rights. These types of feminists believe that oppression exists because of the way in which men and women are socialized, which supports patriarchy and keeps men in power positions. Liberal feminists believe that women have the same mental capacity as their male counterparts and should be given the same opportunities in political, economic and social spheres. Women should have the right to choose, not have their life chosen for them because of their sex. Essentially, women must be like men.

Advocate for Socialist Feminism:

Alison Jaggar

Socialist feminists believe that there is a direct link between class structure and the oppression of women. Western society rewards working men because they produce tangible, tradable goods. On the other hand, women's work in the domestic sphere is not valued by western society because women do not produce a tangible, tradable good. This gives men power and control over women. Socialist feminists reject the idea that biology predetermines ones gender. Social roles are not inherent and women's status must change in both the public and private spheres

Advocate of Cultural Feminism:

Carol Gilligan

Cultural feminists believe that there are fundamental, biological differences between men and women, and that women should celebrate these differences. Women are inherently more kind and gentle. Cultural feminists believe that because of these differences, if women ruled the world there would be no more war and it would be a better place. Essentially, a women's way is the right and better way for everyone. Western society values male thought and the ideas of independence, hierarchy, competition and domination. Females values ideas such as interdependence, cooperation, relationships, community, sharing, joy, trust and peace. Unfortunately, says the cultural feminist, these ideas are not valued in contemporary western societies.

Advocate of Ecofeminism:

Vandana Shiva

Ecofeminists believe that patriarchy and male domination is harmful to women, as well as the environment. There is a link between a male's desire to dominate unruly women and wilderness. Men feel as though they must tame and conquer both in order to have complete power. Ecofeminists say that it is this desire that destroys both women and the Earth.

It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men.

Like I stated, I am a radical feminist because I believe we still live under patriarch rule, and because of this, we limit what women can and cant do, even with their own bodies..
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
Rosalie
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12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Rosalie
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12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/7/2015 8:49:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

How would you encounter the argument of explaining the gender salary gap through womens' career choices?

https://www.americanprogress.org...
Rosalie
Posts: 4,628
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12/7/2015 8:57:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:49:28 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

How would you encounter the argument of explaining the gender salary gap through womens' career choices?

https://www.americanprogress.org...

Of course there will be a difference in salaries if a Man and Women work different jobs. Some jobs pay more than others, obviously.

But my problem is when a Women works the same exact job as a Man does, but yet, they get paid less.

For instance: http://www.payscale.com...
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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12/7/2015 9:00:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination

I am interpreting this to mean that if you are pregnant, you will find it hard to get hired. Does an employer have the right to hire based on merit? Does an employer have the right to hire based on availability of the employee? Would you hire a potential employee knowing they in the very near future are not going to be able to satisfy the demands of the job?

*Pay Inequality

I noticed this is made after the pregnancy argument. Stands to reason that if one is not at the job the same amount of time as another, the pay will show a disparity. In the mean time, if you were to present a job in which 2 candidates, one male, one female were paid differently, despite working the same time at a job, for the same job, this would satisfy as evidence to such an equality. Do you have it?

*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies

Subject to interpretation and negotiation. FMLA does a fine job (to me) of protecting various peoples for this. You are asking an employer to assume more burden for an employee's choice to no longer participate in the work force.

*More Grads, Less Money

Does Grad=more money? Is that a guarantee you saw some place? I missed it in the fine print, apparently. Does it stand to reason that a female graduating with a women's studies degree is going to make less than an pediatrician? Substance counts.

I could go on and on..

With generalities, sure. But lets see some actual nuts and bolts.

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

... civics does that, its written in the Constitution. They have the same rights as men, and visa verse.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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12/7/2015 9:06:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:57:16 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 8:49:28 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

How would you encounter the argument of explaining the gender salary gap through womens' career choices?

https://www.americanprogress.org...

Of course there will be a difference in salaries if a Man and Women work different jobs. Some jobs pay more than others, obviously.

But my problem is when a Women works the same exact job as a Man does, but yet, they get paid less.

For instance: http://www.payscale.com...

.... 4%? That is the highest disparity displayed, which based on the methodology doesn't include for merit based raises, potential over time, or even what the margin of error of the study could be, especially when "1%" is the difference in the examples.

Secondly, the "why" is explained: women choose to opt out of the work force. That isn't discrimination.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Rosalie
Posts: 4,628
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12/7/2015 9:11:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 9:00:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination

I am interpreting this to mean that if you are pregnant, you will find it hard to get hired. Does an employer have the right to hire based on merit? Does an employer have the right to hire based on availability of the employee? Would you hire a potential employee knowing they in the very near future are not going to be able to satisfy the demands of the job?


I'm talking about Women who work in the Workplace whilst pregnant. "While amendments to the Americans With Disabilities Act demand that employers accommodate workers with medical complications from pregnancy, pregnancy itself is not considered a disability. Therefore, employers don"t have to legally accommodate pregnant workers, even for the most minor requests. In one case, a woman who worked at a Walmart in Kansas was fired for asking to carry a bottle of water with her as she stocked the shelves. Even after providing a doctor"s note, the woman was plainly told to ditch the water or leave."

For an employer to simply ignore a request made by a pregnant women, that's discrimination.

*Pay Inequality

I noticed this is made after the pregnancy argument. Stands to reason that if one is not at the job the same amount of time as another, the pay will show a disparity. In the mean time, if you were to present a job in which 2 candidates, one male, one female were paid differently, despite working the same time at a job, for the same job, this would satisfy as evidence to such an equality. Do you have it?

That's not the problem. Of course someone will get paid more money if they choose to work more hours. That's obvious. But that's not the problem. The problem is when a Women works the exact same job as a Man does, yet, she gets paid less than the Man. Same thing goes for the "More Grads, less Money" issue. " Recently, the Washington Post reported that although nearly 60 percent of each year"s class of college graduates are women (a number which exceeds that of men), the guys still rake in the larger paychecks once they emerge from college" Check. Discrimination.

*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies

Subject to interpretation and negotiation. FMLA does a fine job (to me) of protecting various peoples for this. You are asking an employer to assume more burden for an employee's choice to no longer participate in the work force.

There have been cases that we talked about in my WMNST class where a Women goes on maternity leave, comes back, and her job has been replaced. A Women is allowed 12 weeks maternity leave. But otherwise, 8 weeks in the maximum amount of time. As it stands, this law only protects one half of the workforce from unlawful termination.

". In one report, a woman who agreed to get a C-section in exchange for having 11 weeks of maternity leave was fired because the agreement was not put in writing. As if new mothers didn"t already have enough problems."


*More Grads, Less Money

Read above

Does Grad=more money? Is that a guarantee you saw some place? I missed it in the fine print, apparently. Does it stand to reason that a female graduating with a women's studies degree is going to make less than an pediatrician? Substance counts.

I could go on and on..

With generalities, sure. But lets see some actual nuts and bolts.

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

... civics does that, its written in the Constitution. They have the same rights as men, and visa verse.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/7/2015 9:21:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:53:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Jovian, It doesn't hurt to change your avatar to something less generic and basic, so that we may all take your more seriously.

Nah, see it more like modern art or something. And this argument would be a little genetic fallacy I think.
FaustianJustice
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12/7/2015 9:31:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination

I am interpreting this to mean that if you are pregnant, you will find it hard to get hired. Does an employer have the right to hire based on merit? Does an employer have the right to hire based on availability of the employee? Would you hire a potential employee knowing they in the very near future are not going to be able to satisfy the demands of the job?


I'm talking about Women who work in the Workplace whilst pregnant. "While amendments to the Americans With Disabilities Act demand that employers accommodate workers with medical complications from pregnancy, pregnancy itself is not considered a disability. Therefore, employers don"t have to legally accommodate pregnant workers, even for the most minor requests. In one case, a woman who worked at a Walmart in Kansas was fired for asking to carry a bottle of water with her as she stocked the shelves. Even after providing a doctor"s note, the woman was plainly told to ditch the water or leave."

For an employer to simply ignore a request made by a pregnant women, that's discrimination.

... so... because a policy applies to everyone, even the pregnant, and is enforced, even for the pregnant, its "discrimination"? You sure you are using that word correctly? Pregnancy isn't a disability. Complication or hardship, sure, but its one voluntarily taken (at least for purposes of this discussion). Please justify why an employer should be fiscally responsible for a decision an employee makes for their own personal lives.


*Pay Inequality

I noticed this is made after the pregnancy argument. Stands to reason that if one is not at the job the same amount of time as another, the pay will show a disparity. In the mean time, if you were to present a job in which 2 candidates, one male, one female were paid differently, despite working the same time at a job, for the same job, this would satisfy as evidence to such an equality. Do you have it?

The problem is when a Women works the exact same job as a Man does, yet, she gets paid less than the Man. Same thing goes for the "More Grads, less Money" issue. " Recently, the Washington Post reported that although nearly 60 percent of each year"s class of college graduates are women (a number which exceeds that of men), the guys still rake in the larger paychecks once they emerge from college" Check. Discrimination.

Assuming they go into the same fields with the same pays cales for the exact same job, sure, but you and I both know that is NOT the case. You provided a very specific example for the previous point, do you have such a specific example for this point?

*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies

Subject to interpretation and negotiation. FMLA does a fine job (to me) of protecting various peoples for this. You are asking an employer to assume more burden for an employee's choice to no longer participate in the work force.

There have been cases that we talked about in my WMNST class where a Women goes on maternity leave, comes back, and her job has been replaced. A Women is allowed 12 weeks maternity leave. But otherwise, 8 weeks in the maximum amount of time. As it stands, this law only protects one half of the workforce from unlawful termination.

Typically employers will fill a gap created by an employee that is not present... So, again, its discrimination because specifically women get 12 weeks, but 8 is the most a man could take?

". In one report, a woman who agreed to get a C-section in exchange for having 11 weeks of maternity leave was fired because the agreement was not put in writing. As if new mothers didn"t already have enough problems."

So women should be able to have enforcement of solely oral contracts? It sounds like the employer in general was a d!ck, not specifically institutionalized sexism. Fair examination would require investigation into how that particular employer operates.


*More Grads, Less Money

Read above

I did, it doesn't stand.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
PetersSmith
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12/7/2015 9:41:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:54:05 PM, Rosalie wrote:
This semester, I have been taking Women Studies 11 (Roles of Women). By far, this is my favorite class. When men, or women think of the word "Feminism" they think of a man hating women. A big majority of people perceive feminist that way.

You forgot Amazon, Analytical, Anarchist, Anti-pornography, Atheist, Black, Chicana, Conservative, Cyber, Difference, Equality, Fat, French, French post-structuralist, Global, Hip-hop, Indigenous, Native American, Individualist, Lesbian, Lipstick, Marxist, Material, Maternal, Neo, New, Postcolonial, Postmodern, Poststructural, Pro-life, Proto, Religious, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Mormon, Neopagan, Sikh, Separatist, Sex-positive, Social, Standpoint, Third world, Trans, Transnational, Womanism, and Africana womanism feminism types.
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Mirza
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12/7/2015 9:57:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 9:21:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
Nah, see it more like modern art or something.
Ewww.

And this argument would be a little genetic fallacy I think.
Nope. Just saying at first glance, you don't seem to be interested in being taken seriously.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/7/2015 11:27:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:54:05 PM, Rosalie wrote:


Being a man, I must have an opinion on everything, so here goes:

1. Rad-Fem.

"society must be changed at its core in order to dissolve patriarchy"

Men, like most male mammals, have a bit of a territory thing when it comes to the females of their species. You'd have to rewrite our DNA to completely eliminate "patriarchy", and if you do, we probably won't be as eager to carry your bags and buy you dinner. These are dangerous waters.

"the domination of women is the oldest and worst kind of oppression in the world."

Preaching to the choir.

2. Rad-Libertarian.

"femininity and reproduction limit women's capacity to contribute to society."

Depends what you mean by "contribute". Most cultures consider motherhood the biggest contribution of them all.

"Women should essentially be androgynous."

Feminists condemning femininity is just ironic.

3. Rad-Cultural

"They see a link between sex, female subordination, porn, rape and abuse."

They all involve genitals.

4. Lib-Fem.

Most of the Western World accepts this one, at least in principle.

5. Socialist-Fem.

"Socialist feminists reject the idea that biology predetermines ones gender."

Um... it kind of does. That's not a social issue, it's just science.

6. Cultural-Fem.

"if women ruled the world there would be no more war and it would be a better place."

There's a quote from My Big Fat Greek Wedding: "The man may be the head of the household, but the woman is the neck, and she can turn the head any way she likes."

When men go a-conquering, it's often to impress some girl.

There have been female rulers throughout history, and they've been just as bloodthirsty as men.

I don't think having women in charge would make the world more peaceful. They'd still send the young men off to kill each other.

7. Eco-Fem.

Pollution is what harms the environment, not patriarchy. I don't even see the connection here.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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12/8/2015 12:12:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:57:16 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 8:49:28 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

How would you encounter the argument of explaining the gender salary gap through womens' career choices?

https://www.americanprogress.org...

Of course there will be a difference in salaries if a Man and Women work different jobs. Some jobs pay more than others, obviously.

But my problem is when a Women works the same exact job as a Man does, but yet, they get paid less.

For instance: http://www.payscale.com...

hmph, i actually found it interesting that even in women dominated jobs men are still payed higher
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Rosalie
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12/8/2015 12:54:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2015 12:12:20 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 12/7/2015 8:57:16 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 8:49:28 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

How would you encounter the argument of explaining the gender salary gap through womens' career choices?

https://www.americanprogress.org...

Of course there will be a difference in salaries if a Man and Women work different jobs. Some jobs pay more than others, obviously.

But my problem is when a Women works the same exact job as a Man does, but yet, they get paid less.

For instance: http://www.payscale.com...

hmph, i actually found it interesting that even in women dominated jobs men are still payed higher

Exactly.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
Rosalie
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12/9/2015 6:02:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 11:27:50 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:54:05 PM, Rosalie wrote:


Being a man, I must have an opinion on everything, so here goes:

1. Rad-Fem.

"society must be changed at its core in order to dissolve patriarchy"

Men, like most male mammals, have a bit of a territory thing when it comes to the females of their species. You'd have to rewrite our DNA to completely eliminate "patriarchy", and if you do, we probably won't be as eager to carry your bags and buy you dinner. These are dangerous waters.

Then tell me why Gay guys aren't this way? They are just as much for Women's rights, as straight men. It's a choice if your going to act like a dominant a**shole because you have a dick.

"the domination of women is the oldest and worst kind of oppression in the world."

Preaching to the choir.

2. Rad-Libertarian.

"femininity and reproduction limit women's capacity to contribute to society."

Depends what you mean by "contribute". Most cultures consider motherhood the biggest contribution of them all.

When Women have children, they have to be the homemaker. They have to go on maternity leave, and quit working. Due to discrimination, when they do return to work, sometimes their jobs are given away to others.

"Women should essentially be androgynous."

Feminists condemning femininity is just ironic.

No, this is kind of a pun. Basically, its like if we look like a male, then we will be able to do allot more, we would have much more freedom. What I'm talking about here, is that because we look like Women, we don't have as many opportunities. But, if a Women has more male characteristics, she probably will have more freedom.

What we can, and cant do, or what we are limited too, *shouldn't* be based on how we look.

3. Rad-Cultural

"They see a link between sex, female subordination, porn, rape and abuse."

They all involve genitals.

Not true. Abuse has many aspects.

"Scratching, punching, biting, strangling or kicking.
"Throwing something at you such as a phone, book, shoe or plate.
"Pulling your hair.
"Pushing or pulling you.
"Grabbing your clothing.
"Using a gun, knife, box cutter, bat, mace or other weapon.
"Smacking your bottom.
"Forcing you to have sex or perform a sexual act.
"Grabbing your face to make you look at them.
"Grabbing you to prevent you from leaving or to force you to go somewhere.

It dosen't just involve genital abuse.

4. Lib-Fem.

Most of the Western World accepts this one, at least in principle.

5. Socialist-Fem.

"Socialist feminists reject the idea that biology predetermines ones gender."

Um... it kind of does. That's not a social issue, it's just science.

But not everybody believes in Science, maybe they believe in some type of God.

6. Cultural-Fem.

"if women ruled the world there would be no more war and it would be a better place."

There's a quote from My Big Fat Greek Wedding: "The man may be the head of the household, but the woman is the neck, and she can turn the head any way she likes."

That is subjective. Many cultures threat their Women the way they see fits. For example, Muslim husbands feel the need to dominant their wives 24/7. Many Muslim cultures beat their wives, and they're okay with that.

In India "Countries that allow husbands to kill only their wives in flagrante delicto"

Some countries allow husbands to kill their wife's if they are caught cheating.

Have you heard of the thumb rule? Husbands are allowed to beat their wives with a object that is the width of their thumb?

Just because *Greeks* may threat their wives a certain way, doesn't mean the rest of the world abides by that culture.

When men go a-conquering, it's often to impress some girl.

There have been female rulers throughout history, and they've been just as bloodthirsty as men.

But not as many Women as Men.

I don't think having women in charge would make the world more peaceful. They'd still send the young men off to kill each other.

To protect their country, yes. Its a moral rule.

7. Eco-Fem.

Pollution is what harms the environment, not patriarchy. I don't even see the connection here.

But Patriarchy causes oppression, no?
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/9/2015 6:07:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

This attraction to feminism, makes you less attractive.
Rosalie
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12/9/2015 6:07:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 6:07:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

This attraction to feminism, makes you less attractive.

You know that's not true.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/9/2015 6:12:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination

What?

*Pay Inequality

Completely untrue and is disproved about every week on this site. Differences in pay are not related to gender.

*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies

That wouldn't be discrimination necessarily, and my fianc" received full pay for almost her whole 9 months plus is recovering 16 weeks of full pay after the birth. You just have to know how to work the system.

*More Grads, Less Money

Well some of them major in liberal arts or other stupid degrees, while many men are learning trades and getting real job skills. This stat is more reflective of that than any discrimination.

I could go on and on..

I have a feeling that was your best stuff.

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/9/2015 6:16:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:57:16 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 8:49:28 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:58:04 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 7:44:05 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:58:52 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Scratch the "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men"

I meant to say "It's about time we stop being narrow-minded and realize that majority of women don't hate all men"

I don't hate my cat, either, but the nature of the relationship I share with him makes him inherently inferior.

In what general ways in western society have females not achieved equality?

Discrimination generally takes place in the workplace. So, they are treated unequally very much so because they are women.

*Pregnancy Discrimination
*Pay Inequality
*Flawed Maternity-Leave Policies
*More Grads, Less Money
I could go on and on..

That being said, with the availability of virtually being able to take ANY courses to any degree, that including ones which are majority male...

why did you choose women's studies?

Because I chose it as an elective. It has allot of useful information. Also makes Women more knowledgeable of what rights they have.

How would you encounter the argument of explaining the gender salary gap through womens' career choices?

https://www.americanprogress.org...

Of course there will be a difference in salaries if a Man and Women work different jobs. Some jobs pay more than others, obviously.

But my problem is when a Women works the same exact job as a Man does, but yet, they get paid less.

For instance: http://www.payscale.com...

That's still a deceptive way at looking at it. The lifetime earnings of people who take more time off work for family and other reasons are obviously going to be less than somebody who doesn't do that.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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12/9/2015 6:24:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do I dare preach in this thread? No, I will most likely cause several more people to resent me for the truth.

I will however state that I like anarcho-feminists the best. Besides having created some good punk bands, they have won my respect by accepting responsibility for the things that happen to them. Rather than fighting for men and the government to empower women, they fight for women to empower themselves independent of what men and the "patriarchial" state are willing to do.

Obviously the three feminist groups I like the least are conservative-feminists (believe in empowerment by fully embracing gender roles) and liberal feminists.
BlackFlags
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12/9/2015 6:28:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Wylted as always brings up a good point. It is about working the system, as opposed to having the system work for you.

Too many women are just complacent complaining when they do not like their circumstances. Individuals have more control over their fate and circumstances than they like to subscribe to themselves.
BlackFlags
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12/9/2015 6:33:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 6:07:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
This attraction to feminism, makes you less attractive.

I generally agree in 90% of cases, because women fully subject themselves to gender roles, yet are vocally whiny about concepts like "patriarchy." Upset as hell over rape, yet act exactly like the kind of people which rapists are attracted to dominating. They embrace weakness and call it a strength. In shorter words, they are unbelievable hypocrites.

The 10% of cases where a feminist can actually be attractive, is when that feminist actually lives counter to all these things, which projects an image of strength and power. I personally think strong and empowered women are unbelievably hot, yet this is only 10% of feminists.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/9/2015 7:14:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 6:02:35 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 12/7/2015 11:27:50 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:54:05 PM, Rosalie wrote:


Being a man, I must have an opinion on everything, so here goes:

1. Rad-Fem.

"society must be changed at its core in order to dissolve patriarchy"

Men, like most male mammals, have a bit of a territory thing when it comes to the females of their species. You'd have to rewrite our DNA to completely eliminate "patriarchy", and if you do, we probably won't be as eager to carry your bags and buy you dinner. These are dangerous waters.

Then tell me why Gay guys aren't this way? They are just as much for Women's rights, as straight men. It's a choice if your going to act like a dominant a**shole because you have a dick.

Straight men's brains have a larger left hemisphere. Gay men's brains are evenly-proportioned, like straight women's (though, obviously, with some variation). I'm not saying that's the cause of behaviour differences, but it shows that the two groups must be studied separately.

My point is that all straight men have a "protect and provide" instinct, and a "get your hands off my girl" instinct; and that while both those instincts are natural and healthy, they can be used to justify behaving like an overbearing prick, thus leading to patriarchy. Completely eliminating patriarchy is like completely eliminating religious fanaticism: you'll never succeed as long as the potential exists.

2. Rad-Libertarian.

"femininity and reproduction limit women's capacity to contribute to society."

Depends what you mean by "contribute". Most cultures consider motherhood the biggest contribution of them all.

When Women have children, they have to be the homemaker. They have to go on maternity leave, and quit working. Due to discrimination, when they do return to work, sometimes their jobs are given away to others.

When it comes to pregnancy, women undoubtedly have it harder than men. That's just biology. Nevertheless, it's something that most women choose of their own free will. I think it's shitty_ that some women lose their jobs when they have children, but sometimes it's unavoidable. I see this as less of a women's rights issue, and more as an employment contract issue.

"Women should essentially be androgynous."

Feminists condemning femininity is just ironic.

No, this is kind of a pun. Basically, its like if we look like a male, then we will be able to do allot more, we would have much more freedom. What I'm talking about here, is that because we look like Women, we don't have as many opportunities. But, if a Women has more male characteristics, she probably will have more freedom.

I highly doubt that, considering the prejudice against "butch" women.

What we can, and cant do, or what we are limited too, *shouldn't* be based on how we look.

I agree, to an extent. If you're a model, then obviously looks are paramount, because they're what you're selling. If you're a biomedical researcher, you're selling your expertise, and your looks are irrelevant.

3. Rad-Cultural

"They see a link between sex, female subordination, porn, rape and abuse."

They all involve genitals.
[trimmed by SM2 to save characters]
It dosen't just involve genital abuse.

Given the context of the word "abuse", one could easily infer that it meant sexual abuse.

5. Socialist-Fem.

"Socialist feminists reject the idea that biology predetermines ones gender."

Um... it kind of does. That's not a social issue, it's just science.

But not everybody believes in Science, maybe they believe in some type of God.

Beliefs don't matter. Facts do.

6. Cultural-Fem.

"if women ruled the world there would be no more war and it would be a better place."

There's a quote from My Big Fat Greek Wedding: "The man may be the head of the household, but the woman is the neck, and she can turn the head any way she likes."

That is subjective. Many cultures threat their Women the way they see fits. For example, Muslim husbands feel the need to dominant their wives 24/7. Many Muslim cultures beat their wives, and they're okay with that.

In India "Countries that allow husbands to kill only their wives in flagrante delicto"

Some countries allow husbands to kill their wife's if they are caught cheating.

Have you heard of the thumb rule? Husbands are allowed to beat their wives with a object that is the width of their thumb?

Just because *Greeks* may threat their wives a certain way, doesn't mean the rest of the world abides by that culture.

I wasn't actually saying that the entire world treats women the same way, just that men are easily manipulated by feminine wiles.

When men go a-conquering, it's often to impress some girl.

There have been female rulers throughout history, and they've been just as bloodthirsty as men.

But not as many Women as Men.

Which has no relevance to my point here.

I don't think having women in charge would make the world more peaceful. They'd still send the young men off to kill each other.

To protect their country, yes. Its a moral rule.

Or just to get back at the bitch_ across the border. Women aren't saints; they can be just as mean and spiteful as men.

7. Eco-Fem.

Pollution is what harms the environment, not patriarchy. I don't even see the connection here.

But Patriarchy causes oppression, no?

Unless you can prove a direct link between male-dominated societies and increased carbon emissions, there isn't much more to discuss on this one.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/9/2015 7:36:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 6:24:37 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
Do I dare preach in this thread? No, I will most likely cause several more people to resent me for the truth.

I don't think you could make it any worse, lol.


I will however state that I like anarcho-feminists the best. Besides having created some good punk bands, they have won my respect by accepting responsibility for the things that happen to them. Rather than fighting for men and the government to empower women, they fight for women to empower themselves independent of what men and the "patriarchial" state are willing to do.

Obviously the three feminist groups I like the least are conservative-feminists (believe in empowerment by fully embracing gender roles) and liberal feminists.
Robkwoods
Posts: 576
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12/9/2015 8:27:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:54:05 PM, Rosalie wrote:
This semester, I have been taking Women Studies 11 (Roles of Women). By far, this is my favorite class. When men, or women think of the word "Feminism" they think of a man hating women. A big majority of people perceive feminist that way.

I myself am a feminist, a radical feminist to be exact. But it doesn't mean I hate men at all.

In this forum, I will list the 7 types of Feminism to show that not all feminist dislike men, but they also have other theories.

(http://www.caragillis.com...)

Advocates of Radical Feminism:

Radical feminism promotes the basis for many of the ideas of feminism. They usually clash with the ideals of the liberal feminist, because radical feminists believe that society must be changed at its core in order to dissolve patriarchy, not just through acts of legislation. Unfortunately, this type of feminism also attracts a lot of negative media attention creating a backlash of feminism. Radical feminists believe that the domination of women is the oldest and worst kind of oppression in the world.

Radical-Libertarian Feminism

Radical-Libertarian feminists believe that femininity and reproduction limit women's capacity to contribute to society. Women should essentially be androgynous. Radical-Libertarian feminists like to violate sexual norms and believe that women should control every aspect of their sexuality. They also advocate artificial means of reproduction so that less time is devoted to pregnancy and more time is devoted to worthwhile things. They are strong promoters of abortion, contraceptives and other forms of birth control.

Radical-Cultural Feminism

Radical-Cultural feminist views are dramatically different from Radical-Libertarian feminists views. The Radical-Cultural feminists believe that women should encompass their femininity because it is better than masculinity. Mary Daly advocates finding the "wild female within". This type of radical feminist sees sex and penetration as male dominated. They see a link between sex, female subordination, porn, rape and abuse. These must be eliminated, according to Cultural-Radical feminists.

Advocates of Liberal Feminism:

Betty Friedan

National Organization for Women

Liberal feminism was most popular in the 1950's and 1960's when many civil rights movements were taking place. The main view of liberal feminists are that all people are created equal by God and deserve equal rights. These types of feminists believe that oppression exists because of the way in which men and women are socialized, which supports patriarchy and keeps men in power positions. Liberal feminists believe that women have the same mental capacity as their male counterparts and should be given the same opportunities in political, economic and social spheres. Women should have the right to choose, not have their life chosen for them because of their sex. Essentially, women must be like men.

Advocate for Socialist Feminism:

Alison Jaggar

Socialist feminists believe that there is a direct link between class structure and the oppression of women. Western society rewards working men because they produce tangible, tradable goods. On the other hand, women's work in the domestic sphere is not valued by western society because women do not produce a tangible, tradable good. This gives men power and control over women. Socialist feminists reject the idea that biology predetermines ones gender. Social roles are not inherent and women's status must change in both the public and private spheres

Advocate of Cultural Feminism:

Carol Gilligan

Cultural feminists believe that there are fundamental, biological differences between men and women, and that women should celebrate these differences. Women are inherently more kind and gentle. Cultural feminists believe that because of these differences, if women ruled the world there would be no more war and it would be a better place. Essentially, a women's way is the right and better way for everyone. Western society values male thought and the ideas of independence, hierarchy, competition and domination. Females values ideas such as interdependence, cooperation, relationships, community, sharing, joy, trust and peace. Unfortunately, says the cultural feminist, these ideas are not valued in contemporary western societies.

Advocate of Ecofeminism:

Vandana Shiva

Ecofeminists believe that patriarchy and male domination is harmful to women, as well as the environment. There is a link between a male's desire to dominate unruly women and wilderness. Men feel as though they must tame and conquer both in order to have complete power. Ecofeminists say that it is this desire that destroys both women and the Earth.


It's about time we stop being narrow-minded, and realize that majority of women hate men.

Like I stated, I am a radical feminist because I believe we still live under patriarch rule, and because of this, we limit what women can and cant do, even with their own bodies..

Semantic nonsense. Feminism, a movement that thinks the needs of certain women are more important the needs of other people.
Patriarchy is not the problem, because patriarchy just means the man is the head of the household. The only thing holding back women are women. If women really wanted to change things they could, they are half the voting stock.
BlackFlags
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12/10/2015 12:29:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 7:36:58 PM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think you could make it any worse, lol.
Make more people resent me? No, I can definitely do that. Especially whenever I start talking about how women are partially responsible for being raped. The ears of a feminist spurt up and they go into frenzy mode.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/10/2015 12:31:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2015 12:29:29 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
women are partially responsible for being raped.

I'm loath to ask this, but since you've been so blatant, what's your reasoning?