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The Truth About Mass Shootings

Vox_Veritas
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12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
What we can all agree on:
-The civilian populace of the United States has possessed guns since the days of the American Revolution, if not 150 years before this.
-Mass shootings have occurred in the United States sporadically throughout the centuries, but the current moral panic over mass shootings perhaps had its start in the Columbine High School Massacre of April 20, 1999.

25 years ago we weren't averaging a dozen mass shootings a year. It's apparent that something has changed since then. That something clearly is not guns, because there has been an overabundance of guns in the United States for centuries. No, something else has changed.
But what? What has changed since then? Let's name a few culprits.

-The advent of the gun-free zone. In 1990 H.W. Bush signed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 into law. Under this new law schools across the nation became gun-free zones. Now, since people almost everywhere else in the nation were able to keep their guns, that basically meant "Gee, I sure hope nobody walks onto the campus with a gun because then everyone on campus is screwed hurdurdur..."
Even calls to arm teachers, something which could have at least somewhat compensated for this vulnerability, were ignored. Now if someone feels like going out and committing a mass shooting he's got a potential target where 100% of his victims are guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

-The stupid freaking media. Whenever there's a shooting the media is all over it. This has had two effects. First, if a person wants infamy they can have it very easily; just go shoot up a school. Second, if you're mad at the world then the constant media coverage of mass shootings means you'll be well informed of the perfect method of "venting" whereas in the past the idea of committing a mass shooting may not have crossed your mind.

-The deterioration of mental health in the United States. The decline of the nuclear family has resulted in millions of young people growing up in homes which are ultimately detrimental to normal development. Likewise, drug addiction has harmed the mental health of millions, as has child molestation and rape trauma, increased narcissism and depression associated with increased online activity and social media, untold effects on mental health caused by a culture of mass consumers of various medications, desensitization to violence brought on by mass consumption of violent entertainment, a culture of nihilism coupled with the unfulfilment of materialism, a culture where bullying happens to the same degree as in times past but people don't have thick skin anymore, and on and on.
I think it's fair to say that American mental health has never at any point been this bad off, even in the aftermath of wars such as WW1 and WW2 which caused varying degrees of PTSD and desensitization to violence for entire generations.
A mentally unstable society coupled with access to guns equals mass shootings galore.

My solutions to mass shootings:
1. Arm teachers and hire security forces in gun-free zones.
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.
3. Fix the broken state of American mental health. If this is addressed then the other two things won't even be necessary.

Thoughts?
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/10/2015 10:07:32 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What we can all agree on:
-The civilian populace of the United States has possessed guns since the days of the American Revolution, if not 150 years before this.
-Mass shootings have occurred in the United States sporadically throughout the centuries, but the current moral panic over mass shootings perhaps had its start in the Columbine High School Massacre of April 20, 1999.

25 years ago we weren't averaging a dozen mass shootings a year. It's apparent that something has changed since then. That something clearly is not guns, because there has been an overabundance of guns in the United States for centuries. No, something else has changed.
But what? What has changed since then? Let's name a few culprits.

-The advent of the gun-free zone. In 1990 H.W. Bush signed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 into law. Under this new law schools across the nation became gun-free zones. Now, since people almost everywhere else in the nation were able to keep their guns, that basically meant "Gee, I sure hope nobody walks onto the campus with a gun because then everyone on campus is screwed hurdurdur..."
Even calls to arm teachers, something which could have at least somewhat compensated for this vulnerability, were ignored. Now if someone feels like going out and committing a mass shooting he's got a potential target where 100% of his victims are guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

-The stupid freaking media. Whenever there's a shooting the media is all over it. This has had two effects. First, if a person wants infamy they can have it very easily; just go shoot up a school. Second, if you're mad at the world then the constant media coverage of mass shootings means you'll be well informed of the perfect method of "venting" whereas in the past the idea of committing a mass shooting may not have crossed your mind.

-The deterioration of mental health in the United States. The decline of the nuclear family has resulted in millions of young people growing up in homes which are ultimately detrimental to normal development. Likewise, drug addiction has harmed the mental health of millions, as has child molestation and rape trauma, increased narcissism and depression associated with increased online activity and social media, untold effects on mental health caused by a culture of mass consumers of various medications, desensitization to violence brought on by mass consumption of violent entertainment, a culture of nihilism coupled with the unfulfilment of materialism, a culture where bullying happens to the same degree as in times past but people don't have thick skin anymore, and on and on.
I think it's fair to say that American mental health has never at any point been this bad off, even in the aftermath of wars such as WW1 and WW2 which caused varying degrees of PTSD and desensitization to violence for entire generations.
A mentally unstable society coupled with access to guns equals mass shootings galore.

My solutions to mass shootings:
1. Arm teachers and hire security forces in gun-free zones.
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.

First Amendment says hello.

3. Fix the broken state of American mental health. If this is addressed then the other two things won't even be necessary.

Thoughts?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
TheFlex
Posts: 1,745
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12/10/2015 1:20:58 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

-The advent of the gun-free zone. In 1990 H.W. Bush signed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 into law. Under this new law schools across the nation became gun-free zones. Now, since people almost everywhere else in the nation were able to keep their guns, that basically meant "Gee, I sure hope nobody walks onto the campus with a gun because then everyone on campus is screwed hurdurdur..."
Even calls to arm teachers, something which could have at least somewhat compensated for this vulnerability, were ignored. Now if someone feels like going out and committing a mass shooting he's got a potential target where 100% of his victims are guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

I think you make a good case against "Gun-Free zones" here. I think it's been made pretty clear that they aren't working as intended.

-The stupid freaking media. Whenever there's a shooting the media is all over it. This has had two effects. First, if a person wants infamy they can have it very easily; just go shoot up a school. Second, if you're mad at the world then the constant media coverage of mass shootings means you'll be well informed of the perfect method of "venting" whereas in the past the idea of committing a mass shooting may not have crossed your mind.

This doesn't appeal to me as much, not to mention like Illegal has pointed out you'd have to be careful about how you go about trying to mitigate this without infringing on the 1st Amendment rights. It might be because I think how the media covers these instances is proportional to the intensity of them. It's a huge deal when something like this happens so they're going to report it on it as much as possible for every little detail.

-The deterioration of mental health in the United States. The decline of the nuclear family has resulted in millions of young people growing up in homes which are ultimately detrimental to normal development. Likewise, drug addiction has harmed the mental health of millions, as has child molestation and rape trauma, increased narcissism and depression associated with increased online activity and social media, untold effects on mental health caused by a culture of mass consumers of various medications, desensitization to violence brought on by mass consumption of violent entertainment, a culture of nihilism coupled with the unfulfilment of materialism, a culture where bullying happens to the same degree as in times past but people don't have thick skin anymore, and on and on.
I think it's fair to say that American mental health has never at any point been this bad off, even in the aftermath of wars such as WW1 and WW2 which caused varying degrees of PTSD and desensitization to violence for entire generations.
A mentally unstable society coupled with access to guns equals mass shootings galore.

This is something I feel pretty strongly about. I think this where we can make the most money where it comes to evaluating the next step forward with guns in the country.

My solutions to mass shootings:
1. Arm teachers and hire security forces in gun-free zones.
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.
3. Fix the broken state of American mental health. If this is addressed then the other two things won't even be necessary.

Thoughts?

I'm good with points 1 and 3, not a fan of 2 though. My biggest concern is the inaction to try and fix this issue before it gets even worse.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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12/10/2015 4:42:18 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
I don't trust most teachers with guns lol.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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12/10/2015 11:36:50 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What we can all agree on:
-The civilian populace of the United States has possessed guns since the days of the American Revolution, if not 150 years before this.
-Mass shootings have occurred in the United States sporadically throughout the centuries, but the current moral panic over mass shootings perhaps had its start in the Columbine High School Massacre of April 20, 1999.

25 years ago we weren't averaging a dozen mass shootings a year. It's apparent that something has changed since then. That something clearly is not guns, because there has been an overabundance of guns in the United States for centuries. No, something else has changed.
But what? What has changed since then? Let's name a few culprits.

-The advent of the gun-free zone. In 1990 H.W. Bush signed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 into law. Under this new law schools across the nation became gun-free zones. Now, since people almost everywhere else in the nation were able to keep their guns, that basically meant "Gee, I sure hope nobody walks onto the campus with a gun because then everyone on campus is screwed hurdurdur..."
Even calls to arm teachers, something which could have at least somewhat compensated for this vulnerability, were ignored. Now if someone feels like going out and committing a mass shooting he's got a potential target where 100% of his victims are guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

-The stupid freaking media. Whenever there's a shooting the media is all over it. This has had two effects. First, if a person wants infamy they can have it very easily; just go shoot up a school. Second, if you're mad at the world then the constant media coverage of mass shootings means you'll be well informed of the perfect method of "venting" whereas in the past the idea of committing a mass shooting may not have crossed your mind.

-The deterioration of mental health in the United States. The decline of the nuclear family has resulted in millions of young people growing up in homes which are ultimately detrimental to normal development. Likewise, drug addiction has harmed the mental health of millions, as has child molestation and rape trauma, increased narcissism and depression associated with increased online activity and social media, untold effects on mental health caused by a culture of mass consumers of various medications, desensitization to violence brought on by mass consumption of violent entertainment, a culture of nihilism coupled with the unfulfilment of materialism, a culture where bullying happens to the same degree as in times past but people don't have thick skin anymore, and on and on.
I think it's fair to say that American mental health has never at any point been this bad off, even in the aftermath of wars such as WW1 and WW2 which caused varying degrees of PTSD and desensitization to violence for entire generations.
A mentally unstable society coupled with access to guns equals mass shootings galore.

My solutions to mass shootings:
1. Arm teachers and hire security forces in gun-free zones.
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.
3. Fix the broken state of American mental health. If this is addressed then the other two things won't even be necessary.

Thoughts?

I think the claim about something other than "gun prevalence" is a good one, but you exclude the Cinema and TV.

Back in eighteen ninety what-the-heck young people rarely saw gun violence, the never saw crime films, there was no Tarantino etc.

Look at the TV and movie industry today - the US entertainment industry delivers far more violence than British, French, Italian etc combined.

The US TV and movie industry is the primary reason we see mass shootings today, I'm convinced this is the case.

Harry.
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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12/11/2015 8:58:26 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.

It's unwise for the state to put restrictions on the media.
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Maccabee
Posts: 1,245
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12/12/2015 1:13:22 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 4:42:18 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't trust most teachers with guns lol.

And you trust them with the hearts and minds of your children?
Scripture, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion, not science

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

"If guns are the cause of crimes then aren't matches the cause of arson?" D. Boys

"If the death penalty is government sanctioned killing then isn't inprisonment is government sanction kidnapping?" D. B

"Why do you trust the government with machine guns but not honest citizens?" D. B

All those who are pro-death (abortion) is already born
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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12/12/2015 1:19:47 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 1:13:22 AM, Maccabee wrote:
At 12/10/2015 4:42:18 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't trust most teachers with guns lol.

And you trust them with the hearts and minds of your children?

Well I'm 14 so I don't have children to worry about.

In regards to kids in general, I trust that they can question their teachers to some extent. I don't trust parents to not indoctrinate their kids - and that is much harder for most kids to shake off.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Maccabee
Posts: 1,245
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12/12/2015 1:25:35 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 1:19:47 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/12/2015 1:13:22 AM, Maccabee wrote:
At 12/10/2015 4:42:18 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't trust most teachers with guns lol.

And you trust them with the hearts and minds of your children?

Well I'm 14 so I don't have children to worry about.

Oh, sorry.

In regards to kids in general, I trust that they can question their teachers to some extent. I don't trust parents to not indoctrinate their kids - and that is much harder for most kids to shake off.
Ok.
Scripture, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion, not science

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

"If guns are the cause of crimes then aren't matches the cause of arson?" D. Boys

"If the death penalty is government sanctioned killing then isn't inprisonment is government sanction kidnapping?" D. B

"Why do you trust the government with machine guns but not honest citizens?" D. B

All those who are pro-death (abortion) is already born
mc9
Posts: 1,041
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12/12/2015 1:54:03 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What we can all agree on:
-The civilian populace of the United States has possessed guns since the days of the American Revolution, if not 150 years before this.
-Mass shootings have occurred in the United States sporadically throughout the centuries, but the current moral panic over mass shootings perhaps had its start in the Columbine High School Massacre of April 20, 1999.

25 years ago we weren't averaging a dozen mass shootings a year. It's apparent that something has changed since then. That something clearly is not guns, because there has been an overabundance of guns in the United States for centuries. No, something else has changed.
But what? What has changed since then? Let's name a few culprits.

-The advent of the gun-free zone. In 1990 H.W. Bush signed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 into law. Under this new law schools across the nation became gun-free zones. Now, since people almost everywhere else in the nation were able to keep their guns, that basically meant "Gee, I sure hope nobody walks onto the campus with a gun because then everyone on campus is screwed hurdurdur..."
Even calls to arm teachers, something which could have at least somewhat compensated for this vulnerability, were ignored. Now if someone feels like going out and committing a mass shooting he's got a potential target where 100% of his victims are guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

-The stupid freaking media. Whenever there's a shooting the media is all over it. This has had two effects. First, if a person wants infamy they can have it very easily; just go shoot up a school. Second, if you're mad at the world then the constant media coverage of mass shootings means you'll be well informed of the perfect method of "venting" whereas in the past the idea of committing a mass shooting may not have crossed your mind.

-The deterioration of mental health in the United States. The decline of the nuclear family has resulted in millions of young people growing up in homes which are ultimately detrimental to normal development. Likewise, drug addiction has harmed the mental health of millions, as has child molestation and rape trauma, increased narcissism and depression associated with increased online activity and social media, untold effects on mental health caused by a culture of mass consumers of various medications, desensitization to violence brought on by mass consumption of violent entertainment, a culture of nihilism coupled with the unfulfilment of materialism, a culture where bullying happens to the same degree as in times past but people don't have thick skin anymore, and on and on.
I think it's fair to say that American mental health has never at any point been this bad off, even in the aftermath of wars such as WW1 and WW2 which caused varying degrees of PTSD and desensitization to violence for entire generations.
A mentally unstable society coupled with access to guns equals mass shootings galore.

My solutions to mass shootings:
1. Arm teachers and hire security forces in gun-free zones.
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.
3. Fix the broken state of American mental health. If this is addressed then the other two things won't even be necessary.

Thoughts?
Good point but I feel that there should be a universal background check to stop mentally ill and convicted criminals and potential terrorists from buying guns, I mean it isn't really necessary for people to have super rapid fire weapons for self defense.
Maccabee
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12/12/2015 2:37:27 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 1:54:03 AM, mc9 wrote:
At 12/10/2015 5:40:21 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
What we can all agree on:
-The civilian populace of the United States has possessed guns since the days of the American Revolution, if not 150 years before this.
-Mass shootings have occurred in the United States sporadically throughout the centuries, but the current moral panic over mass shootings perhaps had its start in the Columbine High School Massacre of April 20, 1999.

25 years ago we weren't averaging a dozen mass shootings a year. It's apparent that something has changed since then. That something clearly is not guns, because there has been an overabundance of guns in the United States for centuries. No, something else has changed.
But what? What has changed since then? Let's name a few culprits.

-The advent of the gun-free zone. In 1990 H.W. Bush signed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 into law. Under this new law schools across the nation became gun-free zones. Now, since people almost everywhere else in the nation were able to keep their guns, that basically meant "Gee, I sure hope nobody walks onto the campus with a gun because then everyone on campus is screwed hurdurdur..."
Even calls to arm teachers, something which could have at least somewhat compensated for this vulnerability, were ignored. Now if someone feels like going out and committing a mass shooting he's got a potential target where 100% of his victims are guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

-The stupid freaking media. Whenever there's a shooting the media is all over it. This has had two effects. First, if a person wants infamy they can have it very easily; just go shoot up a school. Second, if you're mad at the world then the constant media coverage of mass shootings means you'll be well informed of the perfect method of "venting" whereas in the past the idea of committing a mass shooting may not have crossed your mind.

-The deterioration of mental health in the United States. The decline of the nuclear family has resulted in millions of young people growing up in homes which are ultimately detrimental to normal development. Likewise, drug addiction has harmed the mental health of millions, as has child molestation and rape trauma, increased narcissism and depression associated with increased online activity and social media, untold effects on mental health caused by a culture of mass consumers of various medications, desensitization to violence brought on by mass consumption of violent entertainment, a culture of nihilism coupled with the unfulfilment of materialism, a culture where bullying happens to the same degree as in times past but people don't have thick skin anymore, and on and on.
I think it's fair to say that American mental health has never at any point been this bad off, even in the aftermath of wars such as WW1 and WW2 which caused varying degrees of PTSD and desensitization to violence for entire generations.
A mentally unstable society coupled with access to guns equals mass shootings galore.

My solutions to mass shootings:
1. Arm teachers and hire security forces in gun-free zones.
2. Have the media shut up when shootings happen.
3. Fix the broken state of American mental health. If this is addressed then the other two things won't even be necessary.

Thoughts?
Good point but I feel that there should be a universal background check to stop mentally ill and convicted criminals and potential terrorists from buying guns, I mean it isn't really necessary for people to have super rapid fire weapons for self defense.
First place, background checks are relatively new compared to 200 years of Americans owning firearms.

Second, in a high stress situation and/or a situation where you meet multiple threats having a fast-loading hi-cap firearm will be an asset in self defense. So yes they can be neccesary to have such firepower. Even if you're an ex navy seal. Besides, why does anyone wants a Lamborghini when it can surpass the speed limit and escape from police cars?
Scripture, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion, not science

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

"If guns are the cause of crimes then aren't matches the cause of arson?" D. Boys

"If the death penalty is government sanctioned killing then isn't inprisonment is government sanction kidnapping?" D. B

"Why do you trust the government with machine guns but not honest citizens?" D. B

All those who are pro-death (abortion) is already born