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Chivalry.

SM2
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12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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12/19/2015 12:20:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

Chivalry constitutes an extra level of honour towards women from men. Such activities generally include situations whereby the effort for a woman to accomplish a task may be greater, or involve them getting unnecessarily soiled.

Examples:
Opening doors - Women's hoop skirts used to make it difficult for them to open doors. As such a man would kindly offer to hold the door and let the lady pass.

Walking on the outside next to the street - At one point in time people used to empty everything (including the chamber pot) into the gutters on the street. As carriages etc. would go by, slop would get flung up. It is noble of a man to sacrifice his outerwear (hence long overcoats) to protect the lady from this.

And on and on.

It is definitely good. It trains young men to pay attention to those around them and to think of putting other before themselves. It emphasizes positive attributes of masculinity. It increases their chances of finding a spouse. Women are more needful of an emotion connection, and look for signs that they are personally desired. Chivalry expresses a level of care and compassion. This reinforces to the woman that the man will be there to protect and nurture any family that may result.

How seriously should we take it? Very. Good manners build good society. Chivalry is an important building block for this as it causes young men to think of being more than one of the boys and assume a responsibility (even if tiny).

Of course it is compatible with equality. To have masculine and feminine is not a lack of equality, but a natural difference. Modern feminism is actually anti-woman because it tries to make women into men.
Maikuru
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12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.
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Midnight1131
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12/20/2015 1:35:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

Chivalry is pretty outdated. It was a code for knights to follow that included quite a bit more than how they should treat women. We shouldn't take it seriously at all, because it serves no purpose in today's society to hold large groups of people to a medieval standard.
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Wylted
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12/20/2015 12:55:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

We should take it very serious, I do.

I don't cuss in front of women, I open the door for them (and men usually too), I stand when they enter a room, offer them my seat if no other seers are available. I make sure that when food is being served, they have food before I take any. I don't allow people to cuss in front of my fianc". I open the car door for her, and get some weird comments as a result, I get rained on and offer my umbrella of it's the only one around and a female is in my company. I take chivalry very seriously, and there is a long list of internal rules I have about it, but the above is a good start.
Wylted
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12/20/2015 12:56:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 1:35:43 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

Chivalry is pretty outdated. It was a code for knights to follow that included quite a bit more than how they should treat women. We shouldn't take it seriously at all, because it serves no purpose in today's society to hold large groups of people to a medieval standard.

What's the harm in speaking more politely around women?
Wylted
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12/20/2015 12:56:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.

Please don't shitt all over chivalry.
Wylted
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12/20/2015 12:58:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 12:20:26 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

Chivalry constitutes an extra level of honour towards women from men. Such activities generally include situations whereby the effort for a woman to accomplish a task may be greater, or involve them getting unnecessarily soiled.

Examples:
Opening doors - Women's hoop skirts used to make it difficult for them to open doors. As such a man would kindly offer to hold the door and let the lady pass.

Walking on the outside next to the street - At one point in time people used to empty everything (including the chamber pot) into the gutters on the street. As carriages etc. would go by, slop would get flung up. It is noble of a man to sacrifice his outerwear (hence long overcoats) to protect the lady from this.

And on and on.

It is definitely good. It trains young men to pay attention to those around them and to think of putting other before themselves. It emphasizes positive attributes of masculinity. It increases their chances of finding a spouse. Women are more needful of an emotion connection, and look for signs that they are personally desired. Chivalry expresses a level of care and compassion. This reinforces to the woman that the man will be there to protect and nurture any family that may result.

How seriously should we take it? Very. Good manners build good society. Chivalry is an important building block for this as it causes young men to think of being more than one of the boys and assume a responsibility (even if tiny).

Of course it is compatible with equality. To have masculine and feminine is not a lack of equality, but a natural difference. Modern feminism is actually anti-woman because it tries to make women into men.

Yes, if anything chivalry puts women in higher regard to men. Walking on the outside so a car hits me first and cushion the blow or so I can stop a splashed puddle from hitting her is holding women in very high regard, and certainly a good step towards equality.
Maikuru
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12/20/2015 5:15:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 12:56:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.

Please don't shitt all over chivalry.

I'm a fan of chivalry.
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Diqiucun_Cunmin
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12/20/2015 5:33:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 12:20:26 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

Chivalry constitutes an extra level of honour towards women from men. Such activities generally include situations whereby the effort for a woman to accomplish a task may be greater, or involve them getting unnecessarily soiled.

Examples:
Opening doors - Women's hoop skirts used to make it difficult for them to open doors. As such a man would kindly offer to hold the door and let the lady pass.

Walking on the outside next to the street - At one point in time people used to empty everything (including the chamber pot) into the gutters on the street. As carriages etc. would go by, slop would get flung up. It is noble of a man to sacrifice his outerwear (hence long overcoats) to protect the lady from this.

And on and on.

It is definitely good. It trains young men to pay attention to those around them and to think of putting other before themselves. It emphasizes positive attributes of masculinity. It increases their chances of finding a spouse. Women are more needful of an emotion connection, and look for signs that they are personally desired. Chivalry expresses a level of care and compassion. This reinforces to the woman that the man will be there to protect and nurture any family that may result.

How seriously should we take it? Very. Good manners build good society. Chivalry is an important building block for this as it causes young men to think of being more than one of the boys and assume a responsibility (even if tiny).

Of course it is compatible with equality. To have masculine and feminine is not a lack of equality, but a natural difference. Modern feminism is actually anti-woman because it tries to make women into men.

I agree completely :)

(Though I admit to not being chivalrous. I open doors all the time but that's about it.)
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Midnight1131
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12/20/2015 6:50:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 12:56:22 PM, Wylted wrote:
What's the harm in speaking more politely around women?

There is none, I'm just saying we shouldn't follow a code of chivalry religiously like some people on this thread are suggesting.
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Khaos_Mage
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12/20/2015 10:28:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 12:58:44 PM, Wylted wrote:

Yes, if anything chivalry puts women in higher regard to men. Walking on the outside so a car hits me first and cushion the blow or so I can stop a splashed puddle from hitting her is holding women in very high regard, and certainly a good step towards equality.

How does treating women differently create a sense of equality?
Perhaps you should define equality, since you clearly aren't using it the way most do.
My work here is, finally, done.
Philocat
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12/20/2015 10:52:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
A quick google search reveals this to be the chivalric code:

'Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions (Believe the Church's teachings and observe all the Church's directions).
Thou shalt defend the Church.
Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone.
Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.'

It is essentially a list of commandments to promote certain virtues, such as piety, compassion, patriotism, courage, loyalty, honesty, generosity and general goodness. None of the code pertains directly to women.

I suppose the 'defender of weakness' part can be taken to imply that women, who are generally weaker than men, ought to be defended. Therein we derive certain chivalric ways of acting in relation to women.

At 12/20/2015 10:28:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/20/2015 12:58:44 PM, Wylted wrote:

Yes, if anything chivalry puts women in higher regard to men. Walking on the outside so a car hits me first and cushion the blow or so I can stop a splashed puddle from hitting her is holding women in very high regard, and certainly a good step towards equality.

How does treating women differently create a sense of equality?
Perhaps you should define equality, since you clearly aren't using it the way most do.

In a way, it was a kind of affirmative action. Women were abused by many men in medieval society and the chivalric code, by defending women from abuse, empowered them.

Of course, affirmative action isn't equality, but that's just my theory of how it could be construed to be a form of helping women become more equal to men.
Khaos_Mage
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12/20/2015 10:57:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 10:52:27 PM, Philocat wrote:

In a way, it was a kind of affirmative action. Women were abused by many men in medieval society and the chivalric code, by defending women from abuse, empowered them.

Of course, affirmative action isn't equality, but that's just my theory of how it could be construed to be a form of helping women become more equal to men.

I would agree that chivalry is an equalizing factor in the treatment of women. Hey, woman, I'll protect you and stuff, but in exchange, you can't do men's work and stuff. It's a trade off, which makes the treatment of women more equal, in the sense that the pros equal the cons, but, that is not "equality" in the sense of treatment, as woman are clearly treated in an unequal manner under this code.

It is discrimination, which is the antithesis of inequality, but, as I have always said, discrimination isn't inherently evil.
My work here is, finally, done.
bballcrook21
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12/20/2015 11:48:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I understand what chivalry is, and the reasons behind it, but I never understood why people would only do so for women.

If you are an egalitarian, then you treat both genders equally. It's quite a societal privilege to have men create discomfort for themselves just so that a woman can feel comfortable, when such an action isn't reciprocated.

Don't get me wrong, I will still be courteous, offer my seat, hold the door, etc. but I would never cause myself great discomfort just for the purpose of decorum towards a woman.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

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bballcrook21
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12/20/2015 11:59:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 12:20:26 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

Chivalry constitutes an extra level of honour towards women from men. Such activities generally include situations whereby the effort for a woman to accomplish a task may be greater, or involve them getting unnecessarily soiled.

Examples:
Opening doors - Women's hoop skirts used to make it difficult for them to open doors. As such a man would kindly offer to hold the door and let the lady pass.

Walking on the outside next to the street - At one point in time people used to empty everything (including the chamber pot) into the gutters on the street. As carriages etc. would go by, slop would get flung up. It is noble of a man to sacrifice his outerwear (hence long overcoats) to protect the lady from this.

And on and on.

It is definitely good. It trains young men to pay attention to those around them and to think of putting other before themselves. It emphasizes positive attributes of masculinity. It increases their chances of finding a spouse. Women are more needful of an emotion connection, and look for signs that they are personally desired. Chivalry expresses a level of care and compassion. This reinforces to the woman that the man will be there to protect and nurture any family that may result.

How seriously should we take it? Very. Good manners build good society. Chivalry is an important building block for this as it causes young men to think of being more than one of the boys and assume a responsibility (even if tiny).

Of course it is compatible with equality. To have masculine and feminine is not a lack of equality, but a natural difference. Modern feminism is actually anti-woman because it tries to make women into men.

I do agree with you, but to an extent. I don't find that the clear definition of a man's respect towards others should be how courteous he acts towards a female.

I do agree that men should show some decorum towards women, but they should show the same towards men. If modern day feminist garbage is to exist, then chivalry needs to be eradicated, and the opposite can occur as well.

Yes, feminist is anti-women. It tries to take their femininity and equate it with masculinity, which will never be the same.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Wylted
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12/21/2015 12:50:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 10:28:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/20/2015 12:58:44 PM, Wylted wrote:

Yes, if anything chivalry puts women in higher regard to men. Walking on the outside so a car hits me first and cushion the blow or so I can stop a splashed puddle from hitting her is holding women in very high regard, and certainly a good step towards equality.

How does treating women differently create a sense of equality?
Perhaps you should define equality, since you clearly aren't using it the way most do.

Do you think opening doors for women makes you not equal, or standing up so a woman, old person or handicapped dude makes you inferior to them somehow?
TheGreatAndPowerful
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12/21/2015 12:56:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.

We've had it before. I believe tulle was involved. She was pro-chivalry, so you better be fvcking Sir Gallahad.
Khaos_Mage
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12/21/2015 12:56:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 12:50:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/20/2015 10:28:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/20/2015 12:58:44 PM, Wylted wrote:

Yes, if anything chivalry puts women in higher regard to men. Walking on the outside so a car hits me first and cushion the blow or so I can stop a splashed puddle from hitting her is holding women in very high regard, and certainly a good step towards equality.

How does treating women differently create a sense of equality?
Perhaps you should define equality, since you clearly aren't using it the way most do.

Do you think opening doors for women makes you not equal, or standing up so a woman, old person or handicapped dude makes you inferior to them somehow?

Why are you opening doors, or standing up for others? Because you feel you should, because of who they are. If they were someone else (e.g. a man), you would not do this. Ergo, it is not equal treatment.

Equality is more than just how I compare myself to you, it is how I see everyone.
As I said, it may be an equalizing factor for my own set of values, but, it still does not create equality.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wylted
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12/21/2015 1:03:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 12:56:36 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/21/2015 12:50:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/20/2015 10:28:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/20/2015 12:58:44 PM, Wylted wrote:

Yes, if anything chivalry puts women in higher regard to men. Walking on the outside so a car hits me first and cushion the blow or so I can stop a splashed puddle from hitting her is holding women in very high regard, and certainly a good step towards equality.

How does treating women differently create a sense of equality?
Perhaps you should define equality, since you clearly aren't using it the way most do.

Do you think opening doors for women makes you not equal, or standing up so a woman, old person or handicapped dude makes you inferior to them somehow?

Why are you opening doors, or standing up for others? Because you feel you should, because of who they are. If they were someone else (e.g. a man), you would not do this. Ergo, it is not equal treatment.

Equality is more than just how I compare myself to you, it is how I see everyone.
As I said, it may be an equalizing factor for my own set of values, but, it still does not create equality.

I think it's actually pretty stupid to think that women are the same as us, or that old people don't deserve an extra token of respect. Obviously if your chivalrous you should treat men in high regard as well, but to think that women and men are exactly the same (regardless of equality) is dumb. Are you really saying if you were on the Titanic, you'd protest the fact that the women and children were prioritized when handing out life rafts?

If a man is fist fighting a woman, are you not more likely to step in than if a man were fist fighting a man? Is this really inequality to cherish women?
Maikuru
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12/21/2015 6:24:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 12:56:28 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.

We've had it before. I believe tulle was involved. She was pro-chivalry, so you better be fvcking Sir Gallahad.

I've taken to pulling out all the chairs in the house in case she ever needs to sit down.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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TheGreatAndPowerful
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12/21/2015 6:25:31 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:24:06 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/21/2015 12:56:28 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.

We've had it before. I believe tulle was involved. She was pro-chivalry, so you better be fvcking Sir Gallahad.

I've taken to pulling out all the chairs in the house in case she ever needs to sit down.

That's certainly better than my idea of leaving all the house and car doors open all the time.
lamerde
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12/21/2015 7:48:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:24:06 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/21/2015 12:56:28 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:02:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Posting here to remind myself to post substantively here later. Interesting topic.

We've had it before. I believe tulle was involved. She was pro-chivalry, so you better be fvcking Sir Gallahad.

I've taken to pulling out all the chairs in the house in case she ever needs to sit down.

LOL
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DanMGTOW
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12/21/2015 9:49:32 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

chivalry, was a way for warriors to act on the battlefield
since most women are physically inferior, they were treated as non-combatants the same as small children.
maybe someday women will deserve to be treated as equals, but we have a long way before most men see them as physically capable of taking care of themselves
Greyparrot
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12/21/2015 11:12:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 9:49:32 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 12/18/2015 11:36:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
What constitutes chivalry? Is it good or bad? How seriously should we take it? Is it compatible with equality?

Discuss.

chivalry, was a way for warriors to act on the battlefield
since most women are physically inferior, they were treated as non-combatants the same as small children.
maybe someday women will deserve to be treated as equals, but we have a long way before most men see them as physically capable of taking care of themselves

There's alot of women in combat roles.
Greyparrot
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12/21/2015 11:14:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Perhaps a code was needed long ago, but presently, technology clearly nullifies the gap between one person that can lift 50 pounds and another that can only lift 35 pounds. Women can do far more than ever, and have more than 50% of the jobs in the workforce.
All they need is ultralight plastics, and a can of mace.
Khaos_Mage
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12/23/2015 12:20:14 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 1:03:02 PM, Wylted wrote:

: I think it's actually pretty stupid to think that women are the same as us, or that old people don't deserve an extra token of respect.Obviously if your chivalrous you should treat men in high regard as well, but to think that women and men are exactly the same (regardless of equality) is dumb. Are you really saying if you were on the Titanic, you'd protest the fact that the women and children were prioritized when handing out life rafts?

If a man is fist fighting a woman, are you not more likely to step in than if a man were fist fighting a man? Is this really inequality to cherish women?

Yep, you sure sell chivalry as equality, don't you?
Treating people differently, even if that difference is better than, is inherently not equal.

Instead of attacking the stupidity of equality, or assuming you know anything about my position on the subject of chivalry being good, why don't you just admit that it is discrimination, but acceptable to you, instead of trying to twist words and engage emotions that would imply chivalry promotes equality, which is categorically does not?

But, who knows, maybe I don't understand. Since, it sounds like when you say chivalry, you mean civility, and it sounds like when you say equality, you mean beneficial, and acknowledge that you are also generalizing everyone, implying that all women (or elderly) deserve high regard (or respect).
My work here is, finally, done.
Wylted
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12/23/2015 12:31:03 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 12:20:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/21/2015 1:03:02 PM, Wylted wrote:

: I think it's actually pretty stupid to think that women are the same as us, or that old people don't deserve an extra token of respect.Obviously if your chivalrous you should treat men in high regard as well, but to think that women and men are exactly the same (regardless of equality) is dumb. Are you really saying if you were on the Titanic, you'd protest the fact that the women and children were prioritized when handing out life rafts?

If a man is fist fighting a woman, are you not more likely to step in than if a man were fist fighting a man? Is this really inequality to cherish women?

Yep, you sure sell chivalry as equality, don't you?
Treating people differently, even if that difference is better than, is inherently not equal.


Sure it is. If I order a pizza at a resterau r and the girl orders a salad, we've been served different things, but it would be odd to say we were treated unequally.

Instead of attacking the stupidity of equality, or assuming you know anything about my position on the subject of chivalry being good, why don't you just admit that it is discrimination, but acceptable to you,

Different treatment isn't unequal treatment. I hardly see how pulling out a chair for somebody can be considered discrimination either. If it were discrimination I doubt women would be eating that sort of behavior up.

instead of trying to twist words and engage emotions that would imply chivalry promotes equality, which is categorically does not?

It does. When you are treating people who are traditionally treated as second class citizens really good, that most certainly does promote equality.

But, who knows, maybe I don't understand. Since, it sounds like when you say chivalry, you mean civility, and it sounds like when you say equality, you mean beneficial, and acknowledge that you are also generalizing everyone, implying that all women (or elderly) deserve high regard (or respect).

Your not in a place to judge strangers, it's best to assume they deserve that respect until proven different, or if they make it clear that they don't want that type of respect.
Khaos_Mage
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12/23/2015 1:02:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 12:31:03 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 12:20:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/21/2015 1:03:02 PM, Wylted wrote:

: I think it's actually pretty stupid to think that women are the same as us, or that old people don't deserve an extra token of respect.Obviously if your chivalrous you should treat men in high regard as well, but to think that women and men are exactly the same (regardless of equality) is dumb. Are you really saying if you were on the Titanic, you'd protest the fact that the women and children were prioritized when handing out life rafts?

If a man is fist fighting a woman, are you not more likely to step in than if a man were fist fighting a man? Is this really inequality to cherish women?

Yep, you sure sell chivalry as equality, don't you?
Treating people differently, even if that difference is better than, is inherently not equal.


Sure it is. If I order a pizza at a resterau r and the girl orders a salad, we've been served different things, but it would be odd to say we were treated unequally.

The correct analogy would be a restaurant only offering you a pizza and her a salad, not serving you what you asked.

Instead of attacking the stupidity of equality, or assuming you know anything about my position on the subject of chivalry being good, why don't you just admit that it is discrimination, but acceptable to you,

Different treatment isn't unequal treatment.
Yes, it is!!! By the very definition of the words!!

I hardly see how pulling out a chair for somebody can be considered discrimination either. If it were discrimination I doubt women would be eating that sort of behavior up.
Why is discrimination inherently bad? Discrimination is merely treating two things dissimilar.


instead of trying to twist words and engage emotions that would imply chivalry promotes equality, which is categorically does not?

It does. When you are treating people who are traditionally treated as second class citizens really good, that most certainly does promote equality.
No, it doesn't. It makes them feel better about themselves.
They are still second class. You are only doing it, because they are second class, thus, to a cynic, reinforcing their second class status.

But, who knows, maybe I don't understand. Since, it sounds like when you say chivalry, you mean civility, and it sounds like when you say equality, you mean beneficial, and acknowledge that you are also generalizing everyone, implying that all women (or elderly) deserve high regard (or respect).

Your not in a place to judge strangers, it's best to assume they deserve that respect until proven different, or if they make it clear that they don't want that type of respect.

Don't talk about judging strangers, Mr. they are second class citizens. You don't know that. You don't even know their citizenship. The fact is, you'd pull a chair for a woman simply because she is a woman, and nothing else. You'd stand when a woman enters the room, and for no other reason.
That is discrimination, based on sex, whether or not it is welcome, custom, or well-received.

But, why let definitions of words get in your way, right?
Typed up discrimination in Google and this is what first popped up:
Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing is perceived to belong to rather than on individual merit.

Notice that discrimination can be in favor of something as well, as, big surprise, if you are against something, you are implicitly in favor of its opposite. You know, like, if I hate blacks and treat them like crap, I am implicitly treating non-blacks better. The direction of the treatment is on the eye of the beholder, and distinction is not made between whether I prefer whites, or I hate blacks, since the effect is the same.

Or, would you say that a white supremacist is not discriminatory, since he only helps whites, and does nothing to directly harm other races? (like only shops at white owned stores, hires white people, etc.) I mean, he's only helping one type of person, right, so it's not discrimination...
My work here is, finally, done.