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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things. Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.

If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me. But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different than a body dismorphic disorder, anorexia or more severe disassosiative disorders.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/1/2016 2:43:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Bring it bitchh

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

Zarroette beat you to it http://www.debate.org...

Way to stir the pot there.

I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things. Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.


If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me. But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different than a body dismorphic disorder, anorexia or more severe disassosiative disorders.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?
ConservativePolitico
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1/1/2016 2:53:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 2:43:04 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Bring it bitchh

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

Zarroette beat you to it http://www.debate.org...

Way to stir the pot there.

I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things. Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.


If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me. But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different than a body dismorphic disorder, anorexia or more severe disassosiative disorders.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

Oh boo. Well I haven't paid attention lately. Still, I agree with her.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/1/2016 2:56:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Oh boo. Well I haven't paid attention lately. Still, I agree with her.

Me too. I wish people would stop feeding their delusions. It's unhealthy, but I do support everybody's freedom to cut their penis off.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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1/1/2016 4:03:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things. Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.

If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me. But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different than a body dismorphic disorder, anorexia or more severe disassosiative disorders.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

Get with the times it's 2016. It's fashionable to have a Mangina. It started with blokes with long hair, move to blokes with earnings . Then no hair/ manscaping. It's clearly the next step. I got 1 a few weeks back. It's great, so much freedom. So much room for activities. Read your post in 2 years time, oh how silly you will feel. Tuck it in now and go stand in front of the mirror and dance. And say , I'd do me so hard. It's natural as. Your mental if you don't.
Vox_Veritas
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1/1/2016 4:12:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
People should be permitted to pursue the transgender lifestyle but not minors.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Skepsikyma
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1/1/2016 6:02:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things.

It makes sense when you look at trends in brain morphology and sex-hormone binding genetics among individuals who identify as transgender. No offense intended, but umbrage at the idea seems to be precluded to people who are either not well versed in biology or have religious reasons for disagreeing. There are a lot of stranger things that happen in the natural world than someone being born with a brain which is morphologically the opposite of that of their biological sex.

Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.

Completely agree with you here, as does the relevant research. Those parents, to be frank, disgust me, and ought to be sterilized. It's a prime example of them putting their own virtue-signalling above the welfare of their child.

If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me. But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different

Bad analogy. There isn't a distinct 'horse brain' which members of your species can possess. That is, however, the case for male/female brains.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Yeah, I trust neurologists over psychologists. Especially when the psychologist is obviously talking out of his @ss; there's no way to experimentally test those claims.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

I think it's a real phenomenon, but I think that liberal ideologues have a hard time defending it coherently because it completely undermines the feminist talking point that there are no biological differences between men and women. Since this tabula rasa assumption is the crucial underpinning to the sacrosanct 'pay gap' myth, they can never mount a true defense of transgenderism.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
FourTrouble
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1/1/2016 7:22:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Trying to determine what is or isn't a "mental disease" is a distraction, a red herring. It's fairly obvious that whatever constitutes a "mental disease" is entirely subjective and can be applied legitimately to anything. "The disease of right wing conservative ideology." Probably 50% of DDO agrees with that one. "The disease of transgenderism." Depends who you ask. Maybe there's partial truth to the diagnosis. Doesn't matter. The real question is, what are we going to do about this thing? When you look at it strategically, you realize most trans activists support a diagnosis of gender identity disorder, because that's what provides them the economic means to transition in the first place (it needs to be labeled "medically necessary" before insurance companies will even fund it). Doesn't mean they think they're sick, doesn't mean they want to pathologize gender identity issues. But it means there's more to this picture than just saying, "transgenderism is a disease," as if somehow that's a viable or remotely relevant critique of anything. Nobody cares if it's a disease. If it causes someone suffering, have them go to a psychiatrist, give them an antipsychotic, maybe do some psychoanalysis. Still suffering? Have surgery. Still having a problem? At least we tried all the options. At the end of the day, it's about helping people be happy and live happily. If surgery helps people do that, and it undoubtedly does for many people, then it's a legitimate approach to gender identity issues, regardless of whether you call it a "disease" or "disorder." I couldn't care less what some psychiatrists want to call it (and mind you, many psychiatrists don't call it a disease, and argue forcefully that it's entirely about autonomy -- but I don't feel like getting into all the literature on the topic -- suffice to say it just doesn't matter to have this discussion).
bballcrook21
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1/1/2016 7:41:15 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

+1111111111


I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things. Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.

If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me. But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different than a body dismorphic disorder, anorexia or more severe disassosiative disorders.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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1/2/2016 4:16:21 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 7:22:02 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Trying to determine what is or isn't a "mental disease" is a distraction, a red herring. It's fairly obvious that whatever constitutes a "mental disease" is entirely subjective and can be applied legitimately to anything. "The disease of right wing conservative ideology." Probably 50% of DDO agrees with that one. "The disease of transgenderism." Depends who you ask. Maybe there's partial truth to the diagnosis. Doesn't matter. The real question is, what are we going to do about this thing?

+1
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
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Wylted
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1/2/2016 5:03:53 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 4:12:10 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
People should be permitted to pursue the transgender lifestyle but not minors.

Why can't people pursue minors?
xXCryptoXx
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1/2/2016 5:10:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 4:12:10 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
People should be permitted to pursue the transgender lifestyle but not minors.

The question isn't whether people should be permitted to pursue a transgender lifestyle, the question is whether transgenderism is a mental illness.
Nolite Timere
1harderthanyouthink
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1/2/2016 6:50:48 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 6:02:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

the feminist talking point that there are no biological differences between men and women.

That's some fringe sh!t.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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1/2/2016 8:33:41 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 6:50:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/1/2016 6:02:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

the feminist talking point that there are no biological differences between men and women.

That's some fringe sh!t.

The idea that men and women have no real biological differences aside from their chromosomes, and that there is, therefore, no conceivable reason for us to see disparate representation other than oppression, is unfortunately quite common. It's the foundation on which people advocate for things like gender quotas or the feminization of institutions which are seen as 'misogynist' if women, on average, have a tougher time succeeding within them. Just look at the rabidity with which things like the pay gap are defended.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Deb-8-A-Bull
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1/2/2016 9:49:29 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 5:10:52 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/1/2016 4:12:10 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
People should be permitted to pursue the transgender lifestyle but not minors.

The question isn't whether people should be permitted to pursue a transgender lifestyle, the question is whether transgenderism is a mental illness.

If 1 person had it done your question or statement might be plausible. But there are hundreds of thousands transgender. 700 000 thousand. Law of numbers. And the fact that a " non mentle" person can have it done. So to say . Makes it lesser value. Let's say you not mental at all. you can go down tomorrow and start your journey. Assumptions assumptions. 2016
Deb-8-A-Bull
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1/2/2016 9:55:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 9:49:29 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 1/2/2016 5:10:52 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/1/2016 4:12:10 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
People should be permitted to pursue the transgender lifestyle but not minors.

The question isn't whether people should be permitted to pursue a transgender lifestyle, the question is whether transgenderism is a mental illness.

If 1 person had it done your question or statement might be plausible. But there are hundreds of thousands transgender. 700 000 thousand. Law of numbers. And the fact that a " non mentle" person can have it done. So to say . Makes it lesser value. Let's say you not mental at all. you can go down tomorrow and start your journey. Assumptions assumptions. 2016

I would rather leave my kid with a Trans gender then some one with narcissi border line personality wingy whiny little bit h.
Philocat
Posts: 728
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1/2/2016 11:20:07 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Even if it is a mental illness, we should still sympathise with them. After all, it would totally suck to be transgender.

But does gender reassignment constitute the best treatment for the condition? A transgender woman is never really treated as a real woman and the same applies for transgender men.

Many transgender persons become depressed or even suicidal after they have gender reassignment. They are fed the myth from the liberal ideologues that gender reassignment is a cure-all fix that will make a trans person's life markedly better. Once all this turns out to be a huge disappointment, this is where depression kicks in.
1harderthanyouthink
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1/2/2016 11:57:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 11:20:07 AM, Philocat wrote:
Even if it is a mental illness, we should still sympathise with them. After all, it would totally suck to be transgender.

But does gender reassignment constitute the best treatment for the condition? A transgender woman is never really treated as a real woman and the same applies for transgender men.

Many transgender persons become depressed or even suicidal after they have gender reassignment. They are fed the myth from the liberal ideologues that gender reassignment is a cure-all fix that will make a trans person's life markedly better. Once all this turns out to be a huge disappointment, this is where depression kicks in.

The depression tends to kick in long before the reassignment. So that's...utter bullsh!t.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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YYW
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1/3/2016 1:49:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 6:50:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/1/2016 6:02:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

the feminist talking point that there are no biological differences between men and women.

That's some fringe sh!t.

It's also delusional.
Tsar of DDO
Philocat
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1/3/2016 11:40:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 11:57:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/2/2016 11:20:07 AM, Philocat wrote:
Even if it is a mental illness, we should still sympathise with them. After all, it would totally suck to be transgender.

But does gender reassignment constitute the best treatment for the condition? A transgender woman is never really treated as a real woman and the same applies for transgender men.

Many transgender persons become depressed or even suicidal after they have gender reassignment. They are fed the myth from the liberal ideologues that gender reassignment is a cure-all fix that will make a trans person's life markedly better. Once all this turns out to be a huge disappointment, this is where depression kicks in.

The depression tends to kick in long before the reassignment. So that's...utter bullsh!t.

Yes, but surgery offers hope that is sadly misplaced. Once trans people realise that gender assignment isn't everything the SJWs make it out to be, their dashed hope can exacerbate their depression.
1harderthanyouthink
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1/3/2016 11:46:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 11:40:39 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 1/2/2016 11:57:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/2/2016 11:20:07 AM, Philocat wrote:
Even if it is a mental illness, we should still sympathise with them. After all, it would totally suck to be transgender.

But does gender reassignment constitute the best treatment for the condition? A transgender woman is never really treated as a real woman and the same applies for transgender men.

Many transgender persons become depressed or even suicidal after they have gender reassignment. They are fed the myth from the liberal ideologues that gender reassignment is a cure-all fix that will make a trans person's life markedly better. Once all this turns out to be a huge disappointment, this is where depression kicks in.

The depression tends to kick in long before the reassignment. So that's...utter bullsh!t.

Yes, but surgery offers hope that is sadly misplaced. Once trans people realise that gender assignment isn't everything the SJWs make it out to be, their dashed hope can exacerbate their depression.

The average SJWs don't say that gender reassignment is a magical fix. A social justice warrior would not only prescribe gender reassignment but for people in society to be more accepting. There is no magical fix for the stigmatization of people, and even SJWs will realize that - and they should realize that - or else they're bad at what they do.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Philocat
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1/3/2016 12:06:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 11:46:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:40:39 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 1/2/2016 11:57:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/2/2016 11:20:07 AM, Philocat wrote:
Even if it is a mental illness, we should still sympathise with them. After all, it would totally suck to be transgender.

But does gender reassignment constitute the best treatment for the condition? A transgender woman is never really treated as a real woman and the same applies for transgender men.

Many transgender persons become depressed or even suicidal after they have gender reassignment. They are fed the myth from the liberal ideologues that gender reassignment is a cure-all fix that will make a trans person's life markedly better. Once all this turns out to be a huge disappointment, this is where depression kicks in.

The depression tends to kick in long before the reassignment. So that's...utter bullsh!t.

Yes, but surgery offers hope that is sadly misplaced. Once trans people realise that gender assignment isn't everything the SJWs make it out to be, their dashed hope can exacerbate their depression.

The average SJWs don't say that gender reassignment is a magical fix. A social justice warrior would not only prescribe gender reassignment but for people in society to be more accepting. There is no magical fix for the stigmatization of people, and even SJWs will realize that - and they should realize that - or else they're bad at what they do.

I have witnessed many SJWs who encourage trans people to undergo surgery, and anyone who dares to point out the truth that it maybe isn't the best solution is lambasted as 'transphobic' or a 'straight cisgender white male who needs to check his privilege'.

We can accept transgenderism, but that doesn't solve the plight of the transgender person. A transgender person is still not an actual member of their chosen sex and no amount of acceptance is going to change that.
1harderthanyouthink
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1/3/2016 12:15:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 12:06:33 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:46:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:40:39 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 1/2/2016 11:57:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
The depression tends to kick in long before the reassignment. So that's...utter bullsh!t.

Yes, but surgery offers hope that is sadly misplaced. Once trans people realise that gender assignment isn't everything the SJWs make it out to be, their dashed hope can exacerbate their depression.

The average SJWs don't say that gender reassignment is a magical fix. A social justice warrior would not only prescribe gender reassignment but for people in society to be more accepting. There is no magical fix for the stigmatization of people, and even SJWs will realize that - and they should realize that - or else they're bad at what they do.

I have witnessed many SJWs who encourage trans people to undergo surgery, and anyone who dares to point out the truth that it maybe isn't the best solution is lambasted as 'transphobic' or a 'straight cisgender white male who needs to check his privilege'.

That's just playing on the SJW stereotype to make your point look better.

You said it does not solve everything. That's true - it doesn't. But nobody can really say anything on whether it's the best choice. There is no "solution" as an alternate like "praying the gay away" bullsh!t. It doesn't work, so it comes down to a legitimate thought process on what the person will feel best as. It might not take away all hints of depression, but not only is it good to make effort to right the ship - there comes a point where everything has failed and a more permanent solution will be taken.

We can accept transgenderism, but that doesn't solve the plight of the transgender person. A transgender person is still not an actual member of their chosen sex and no amount of acceptance is going to change that.

It frankly shouldn't be the business of anyone. The goal shouldn't be a debate over whether they're "really a woman" or "really a man". The goal should be to let other people to deal with their lives, without a person bearing down on them, without judgement from people who don't understand them, and without stupid problems like this.

If a person is rejected as "not their (chosen) gender", you are simply not giving full acceptance. You can't say you are, so you can't say that the chance for these people to live peacefully by many (as you are not a small group here) has been given. You can say you find their plight tragic, but these are the reactions that get trans people to not feel any better than before.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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tejretics
Posts: 6,091
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1/3/2016 12:21:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 7:22:02 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Trying to determine what is or isn't a "mental disease" is a distraction, a red herring. It's fairly obvious that whatever constitutes a "mental disease" is entirely subjective and can be applied legitimately to anything. "The disease of right wing conservative ideology." Probably 50% of DDO agrees with that one. "The disease of transgenderism." Depends who you ask.

I agree with most of the above.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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1/3/2016 3:47:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 2:22:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been gone for awhile DDO and it's time for me to stir the pot once again. I've been wanting to discuss this for awhile now.

Transgenderism is, plain and simple, a mental disorder and transgender individuals are mentally ill.

Even if it was like this, do people who are mentally ill not deserve respect?

I'm not sure why we've accepted this dangerous and harmful idea that you can just become another gender. It makes no sense and its led to some really disgusting things. Parents pumping their children full of hormones at young ages in the name of transgenderism is wrong and simply should be illegal.

A legitimate question, but the thing is that these children have since they were 3 year old felt that they were in the wrong body, and they haven't been able to "think away" their thing. So it seems like some of them actually have a legitimate feeling of not belonging to their bodies.

If I woke up tomorrow and came out saying that I have always wanted to be a horse, I've known it deep in my soul forever and now I'm going to eat grass and request to sleep in stable you'd institutionalize me.

It's a little apples and oranges to me. You could function well in society by being your opposite gender, but not by being a horse. Those who want an opposite gender are thus not handicapped.

But when people wake up and say "well you know I'm a woman now chop my dick off and give me some estrogen" you're applauded and accepted. It's buying into a delusion, a mental disorder no different than a body dismorphic disorder, anorexia or more severe disassosiative disorders.

Apples and oranges.

A well renown psychologist claimed that there are only two types of transgenders: homosexuals who turn themselves into the opposite gender to help land people of their sexual preference i.e. a man turning himself into a woman in order to sleep with men and autoerotica in which men or women find it sexually arousing to imagine themselves as the opposite sex.

Both make sense. I think it's a mental illness. What do you think?

Again, mental illness =/= doesn't deserve respect.
theworldhasgonemad
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1/4/2016 7:29:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
It's a little apples and oranges to me. You could function well in society by being your opposite gender, but not by being a horse. Those who want an opposite gender are thus not handicapped.

That's not true. Being your opposite gender creates all sorts of issues.

For instance, is the next wave of female Olympic champions actually going to be male? That is grossly discriminatory against real females. Not only that it opens the can of worms about people being able to pretend they are transgende just so they can become, for example, an olympic champion.

A second basic example is getting changed at school. Which dressing sheds do you go in? A perverted male could pretend he's transgender, and it would be discriminatory not to let him shower with all the girls.

Consider also the homosexual male. Who should he shower with, males or females? It's discriminatory to not let him shower with males. But on the other hand, it's discriminatory for the other males to let him shower with them - for the same reasons why you don't let males shower with females, it makes them uncomfortable.

Society is being handicapped by allowing these mental disorders to be considered normal, and refusing to acknowledge the differences in genders and sexualities.

It's time to acknowledge difference where difference exists, and come up with solution that is non-discriminatory for everyone, not just for the people with disorders.
theworldhasgonemad
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1/4/2016 7:44:50 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
If a person is rejected as "not their (chosen) gender", you are simply not giving full acceptance. You can't say you are, so you can't say that the chance for these people to live peacefully by many (as you are not a small group here) has been given. You can say you find their plight tragic, but these are the reactions that get trans people to not feel any better than before.
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people also have an innate conscience that tells them what is normal/not normal, right and wrong.

if you are going to insist that we treat people that our innate conscience tells us have disorders, as not having disorders, and being the same as other people, even though our innate conscience tells us they are not the same, then you are not accepting us for who we are. You are discriminating against our innate thoughts.
Jovian
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1/4/2016 2:36:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 7:29:01 AM, theworldhasgonemad wrote:
It's a little apples and oranges to me. You could function well in society by being your opposite gender, but not by being a horse. Those who want an opposite gender are thus not handicapped.

That's not true. Being your opposite gender creates all sorts of issues.

For instance, is the next wave of female Olympic champions actually going to be male? That is grossly discriminatory against real females. Not only that it opens the can of worms about people being able to pretend they are transgende just so they can become, for example, an olympic champion.

If there aren't tests showing how they biologically are the right gender in this case, there should.

A second basic example is getting changed at school. Which dressing sheds do you go in? A perverted male could pretend he's transgender, and it would be discriminatory not to let him shower with all the girls.

This is a problem. There should be a third changing room, but those things cost money to have everywhere.

Consider also the homosexual male. Who should he shower with, males or females? It's discriminatory to not let him shower with males. But on the other hand, it's discriminatory for the other males to let him shower with them - for the same reasons why you don't let males shower with females, it makes them uncomfortable.

Read previous.

Society is being handicapped by allowing these mental disorders to be considered normal, and refusing to acknowledge the differences in genders and sexualities.

Even if it was a disorder, disordered people still deserve respect you idiot. If you still think not, then you should go out and bash Down's syndrom people by now. But I guess you will come up with the card "That's not the same thing" here, to move your goalposts.

It's time to acknowledge difference where difference exists, and come up with solution that is non-discriminatory for everyone, not just for the people with disorders.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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1/5/2016 6:43:30 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 2:36:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 1/4/2016 7:29:01 AM, theworldhasgonemad wrote:
It's a little apples and oranges to me. You could function well in society by being your opposite gender, but not by being a horse. Those who want an opposite gender are thus not handicapped.

That's not true. Being your opposite gender creates all sorts of issues.

For instance, is the next wave of female Olympic champions actually going to be male? That is grossly discriminatory against real females. Not only that it opens the can of worms about people being able to pretend they are transgende just so they can become, for example, an olympic champion.

If there aren't tests showing how they biologically are the right gender in this case, there should.

A second basic example is getting changed at school. Which dressing sheds do you go in? A perverted male could pretend he's transgender, and it would be discriminatory not to let him shower with all the girls.

This is a problem. There should be a third changing room, but those things cost money to have everywhere.

There's a very easy solution: provide actual privacy in changing rooms and bathrooms and the need to segregate them along gender lines won't exist anymore.

Consider also the homosexual male. Who should he shower with, males or females? It's discriminatory to not let him shower with males. But on the other hand, it's discriminatory for the other males to let him shower with them - for the same reasons why you don't let males shower with females, it makes them uncomfortable.

Read previous.

Society is being handicapped by allowing these mental disorders to be considered normal, and refusing to acknowledge the differences in genders and sexualities.

Even if it was a disorder, disordered people still deserve respect you idiot. If you still think not, then you should go out and bash Down's syndrom people by now. But I guess you will come up with the card "That's not the same thing" here, to move your goalposts.

It's time to acknowledge difference where difference exists, and come up with solution that is non-discriminatory for everyone, not just for the people with disorders.
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