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The Christian Genocide

The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/22/2016 8:07:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
"At least 18,802 civilians have been killed in Iraq from January 2014 to October 2015.

At least 36,245 civilians have been wounded during that same time period.

An estimated 3,500 are being held as slaves by ISIS " the Islamic State " in Iraq, most of them women and children.

3.2 million have been displaced.

These staggering numbers were released on Tuesday in a report by the United Nations, which tracked suffering in Iraq since the rise of the Islamic State (ISIS) in January 2014, through to October 2015."

http://aclj.org...

It's official, y'all. And What is America doing about this? The world? Nothing. They want to make sure the ones doing this don't get offended.

At least some people have the sense to recognize what this is: http://www.npr.org...

And what is Obama doing? Nothing. He refuses to call it genocide, even though he calls the killing of the Yazidi sect in Iraq genocide, even though substantially less adherents have been persecuted: http://www.redstate.com...
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/22/2016 8:32:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
So what are we gonna do? Go to war for 8 years - overthrow Assad and drive out ISIS?

And then where will we be a couple years after leaving?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/22/2016 9:04:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 8:32:00 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So what are we gonna do? Go to war for 8 years - overthrow Assad and drive out ISIS?

And then where will we be a couple years after leaving?

Yes. I have been a proponent for sending troops to combat ISIS from the beginning. ISIS needs to be destroyed, any means necessary. The atrocities they commit against Christians, Muslims, and other minority groups a like cannot go unexcused. ISIS needs to be held accountable form their crimes against humanity. What needs to happen to ISIS is like what happened to Germany. The world; the U.S, the UK, France, Germany, Israel, Turkey, -- any country with a good sense of human morality and the ability to fight need to create an international coalition to fight this scum of these earth terrorists. And this time, we stay there until we know that the government can support and defend itself; we don't leave when the threat of insurgency and terrorism remains obvious. We establish a nation full of refugees, and have the West as a whole support it.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,574
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1/22/2016 9:06:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?

This is measured Christian civilians.

The atrocities committed by ISIS against all people, sects, etc. should be met with swift, brutal justice. Their crimes against humanity cannot go overlooked.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/22/2016 10:45:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 9:04:41 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:32:00 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So what are we gonna do? Go to war for 8 years - overthrow Assad and drive out ISIS?

And then where will we be a couple years after leaving?

Yes. I have been a proponent for sending troops to combat ISIS from the beginning. ISIS needs to be destroyed, any means necessary. The atrocities they commit against Christians, Muslims, and other minority groups a like cannot go unexcused. ISIS needs to be held accountable form their crimes against humanity. What needs to happen to ISIS is like what happened to Germany. The world; the U.S, the UK, France, Germany, Israel, Turkey, -- any country with a good sense of human morality and the ability to fight need to create an international coalition to fight this scum of these earth terrorists. And this time, we stay there until we know that the government can support and defend itself; we don't leave when the threat of insurgency and terrorism remains obvious. We establish a nation full of refugees, and have the West as a whole support it.

You can't kill an ideology of a people by shooting them.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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1/22/2016 10:56:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:45:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

You can't kill an ideology of a people by shooting them.

You cannot kill a lie, you can only kill the liar. The lie still remains. You cannot kill hatred, you can only kill the one that hates, but the hate will remain and multiply, blackening an already starless sky.

-Paraphrase of MLK Jr
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/23/2016 12:19:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?

Eh
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/23/2016 12:22:06 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 12:19:50 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?

Eh

That's hypocritical, if you want to only help Christian civilians.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/23/2016 12:23:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 12:22:06 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:19:50 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?

Eh

That's hypocritical, if you want to only help Christian civilians.

Not hypocritical at all. If I were to state that all civilians should be helped, and then turn around and advocate for only Christians to be helped, then it would be hypocritical.

I don't really care for any of them.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/23/2016 12:25:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 12:23:56 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:22:06 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:19:50 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?

Eh

That's hypocritical, if you want to only help Christian civilians.

Not hypocritical at all. If I were to state that all civilians should be helped, and then turn around and advocate for only Christians to be helped, then it would be hypocritical.

I don't really care for any of them.

Then your position isn't hypocritical, if you don't care for anyone there to live.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/23/2016 12:27:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 12:25:23 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:23:56 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:22:06 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:19:50 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:33:12 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And you pointed out a civilian death count...wouldn't that include Muslims? Are they not as noteworthy to help?

Eh

That's hypocritical, if you want to only help Christian civilians.

Not hypocritical at all. If I were to state that all civilians should be helped, and then turn around and advocate for only Christians to be helped, then it would be hypocritical.

I don't really care for any of them.

Then your position isn't hypocritical, if you don't care for anyone there to live.

Exactly. It's not necessarily that I want them to die, or that I find these acts to be okay. It all boils down to the fact that it doesn't impact me directly and I don't feel too much remorse for people that I have no connection to.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/23/2016 12:33:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I should note that in 2014, Boko Haram killed more people than ISIS.

Where's the GOP outrage on the Africans getting murdered?

Besides, a Middle Eastern conflict shouldn't be settled by Europe and North America - it should be settled by the powers with governments in the region.

But, can we really say the Saudis are any better than ISIS? No, we can't. And Turkey is not a "moral country", using your ideas of morality.

So why stop at Assad? Let's topple every goddamned government remotely close to the Middle East.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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1/23/2016 12:49:00 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 8:07:58 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
"At least 18,802 civilians have been killed in Iraq from January 2014 to October 2015.
He refuses to call it genocide, even though he calls the killing of the Yazidi sect in Iraq genocide, even though substantially less adherents have been persecuted: http://www.redstate.com...

He's not calling it a genocide because it's not a genocide. Yazidis are a religious and ethnic group. Christians, in Iraq, are not an ethnic group. Genocide is the targeting of people for extermination on a genetic basis.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,574
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1/23/2016 1:07:02 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 12:49:00 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:07:58 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
"At least 18,802 civilians have been killed in Iraq from January 2014 to October 2015.
He refuses to call it genocide, even though he calls the killing of the Yazidi sect in Iraq genocide, even though substantially less adherents have been persecuted: http://www.redstate.com...

Yes, I know. I use the same source in the OP.

He's not calling it a genocide because it's not a genocide. Yazidis are a religious and ethnic group. Christians, in Iraq, are not an ethnic group. Genocide is the targeting of people for extermination on a genetic basis.

Not according to this:
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Or these:
https://www.google.com...
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
http://www.ushmm.org...

One of them specifically says "religion," but the others say "culture." Religion is culture to many people. So it is easily implied that religion is included in the definition.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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1/25/2016 1:40:03 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 1:07:02 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 1/23/2016 12:49:00 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:07:58 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
"At least 18,802 civilians have been killed in Iraq from January 2014 to October 2015.
He refuses to call it genocide, even though he calls the killing of the Yazidi sect in Iraq genocide, even though substantially less adherents have been persecuted: http://www.redstate.com...

Yes, I know. I use the same source in the OP.

He's not calling it a genocide because it's not a genocide. Yazidis are a religious and ethnic group. Christians, in Iraq, are not an ethnic group. Genocide is the targeting of people for extermination on a genetic basis.

Not according to this:
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Or these:
https://www.google.com...
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
http://www.ushmm.org...

One of them specifically says "religion," but the others say "culture." Religion is culture to many people. So it is easily implied that religion is included in the definition.

Quoting dictionaries doesn't prove anything in this instance, lol. The essential feature of genocide, which makes it so heinous a crime, and which has categorized it since the tern was coined, has been 'the targeting of a group in an effort to eliminate it'. You can do that with a cultural group, which transmits its culture socially, and to a genetic group, which transmits its genetics through reproduction. You cannot do it to a religious group, which is defined by adherence to a particular religious text. Even if you killed all of them, people could still discover the teachings and begin to follow them. Religion is an ideology, not an ingrained characteristic into which one must be born.

The definition you are referencing is based off of international law, and is a political one molded by the political situation during which it was laid down into law. There is little difference between religion and political ideology, but one is protected and the other isn't, and the only reason for that is a political one. In fact, the reason that the definition was expanded to include anything other than race/culture was a political one: the term, and the opprobrium associated with it, was used by a cudgel both during and after the Cold War.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -