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The USA lacks family structure

jharry
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10/30/2010 5:29:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

Yes. And no it isn't the homosexuals fault. PUCK. It is everyone's fault.

I do hold puck personally responsible for most of it. He eats babies.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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10/30/2010 5:45:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:29:27 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

Yes. And no it isn't the homosexuals fault. PUCK. It is everyone's fault.

I do hold puck personally responsible for most of it. He eats babies.

Puck's from Australia.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/30/2010 5:48:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:45:19 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:29:27 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

Yes. And no it isn't the homosexuals fault. PUCK. It is everyone's fault.

I do hold puck personally responsible for most of it. He eats babies.

Puck's from Australia.

THAT explains a LOT. I still hold him responsible though, his evil can encompass the entire world. I'm trying to see if 666=PUCK.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/30/2010 5:51:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:48:24 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:45:19 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:29:27 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

Yes. And no it isn't the homosexuals fault. PUCK. It is everyone's fault.

I do hold puck personally responsible for most of it. He eats babies.

Puck's from Australia.

THAT explains a LOT. I still hold him responsible though, his evil can encompass the entire world. I'm trying to see if 666=PUCK.

Australia = "Down Under" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

"Down Under" = HELL

Ergo, Australia = Hell.... so Puck = Satan!

IT MAKES SENSE NOW!
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/30/2010 5:52:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

No. "Tradishun'l fam'ly valyas" are exactly what's wrong with this country.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/30/2010 5:55:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:51:49 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:48:24 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:45:19 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:29:27 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

Yes. And no it isn't the homosexuals fault. PUCK. It is everyone's fault.

I do hold puck personally responsible for most of it. He eats babies.

Puck's from Australia.

THAT explains a LOT. I still hold him responsible though, his evil can encompass the entire world. I'm trying to see if 666=PUCK.

Australia = "Down Under" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

"Down Under" = HELL

Ergo, Australia = Hell.... so Puck = Satan!

IT MAKES SENSE NOW!

Ah crap. Now all the atheists will start worshiping him now.:)
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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10/30/2010 5:55:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:52:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

No. "Tradishun'l fam'ly valyas" are exactly what's wrong with this country.

I disagree. There's nothing wrong with having a family together. One major problem is people having one night stands, getting pregnant, and then the partner leaves resulting in many single parents. A majority of people at or below the poverty line are single mothers. I'm not really sure that's what this thread is about though.
jharry
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10/30/2010 5:59:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

All joking aside I do see a breakdown in society. I do believe it has links to the family.

I can remember my High School this time a year when I was young. There was a deer rifle in every gun rack of every truck in the parking lot. No one shot any body, it wasn't even a thought. Now there is a 12' fence all the way around it and a full time police presence.

That was in 15 years.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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10/30/2010 6:03:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:59:26 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

All joking aside I do see a breakdown in society. I do believe it has links to the family.

I can remember my High School this time a year when I was young. There was a deer rifle in every gun rack of every truck in the parking lot. No one shot any body, it wasn't even a thought. Now there is a 12' fence all the way around it and a full time police presence.

That was in 15 years.

Yea, I don't think people had the same fears about pedophiles, kidnappings, rapes, etc. back then as they do now. Society has changed in many ways, and one could argue it has changed for the worse.
jharry
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10/30/2010 6:12:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 6:03:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:59:26 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

All joking aside I do see a breakdown in society. I do believe it has links to the family.

I can remember my High School this time a year when I was young. There was a deer rifle in every gun rack of every truck in the parking lot. No one shot any body, it wasn't even a thought. Now there is a 12' fence all the way around it and a full time police presence.

That was in 15 years.

Yea, I don't think people had the same fears about pedophiles, kidnappings, rapes, etc. back then as they do now. Society has changed in many ways, and one could argue it has changed for the worse.

I wonder about that to some times. I remember going to camp by the river at the age of 8, just me and my brothers. The oldest being 10. I don't know if there was less evil out there or we just didn't know about it with the lack of internet and 6000 tv channels. I think we had about three channels growing up.

But I was talking ore about what was common knowledge about right and wrong. I might fight someone in the parking lot but I would never go for the rifle in my truck, no matter how bad I was getting my butt whopped. That was something we just didn't do. You getting bullied? Get a big stick and take care of it. That is how it was done back then.

I think parents have lost a lot of respect and authority too. I remember I got picked up for PD at a party one night. I was about 13. The cop took me straight o the house, I begged him to take me to jail, not to my house. When he got there he went up to the house and got me old man. My dad came out and reached through the open window and dragged me to the house where he whipped my arse. Te cop knew it and approved of it. I hated it then but now I see why it was required, I would have been a lot worse if I wasn't concerned with the punishment.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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10/30/2010 6:33:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Society isn't changing or breaking down; however, people's perceptions of society are. Rape, murder, molestation, discrimination, and other crimes have only decreased over time. The difference is that people are more educated and informed of the evils in this world, which generates the faulty perception that degrading family values are coinciding with the *perception* of increased crime and societal hardship.

Divorce rates were not higher in the past because despite how terrible and abusive a husband might have been, it was taboo for a wife to file for divorce. Today's society is more accepting of independent women, which has motivated higher divorce rates, and is ultimately preferable for the wife and the child.

Societal breakdown is mainly the result of socioeconomic, educational, and political degradation. Higher abortion rates and a growing Atheist presence is hardly the cause of any society's downfall. Such an awry claim requires some substantial evidence, so if anyone has any, please feel free to present it.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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10/30/2010 6:36:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:55:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:52:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

No. "Tradishun'l fam'ly valyas" are exactly what's wrong with this country.

I disagree. There's nothing wrong with having a family together. One major problem is people having one night stands, getting pregnant, and then the partner leaves resulting in many single parents. A majority of people at or below the poverty line are single mothers. I'm not really sure that's what this thread is about though.

One night stands are hardly an issue when an educational system is vigilant in teaching the importance of safe-sex. Condoms and birth control allow people to indulge their biological urges without causing hardship for themselves and their potential children.
gavin.ogden
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10/30/2010 7:29:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 5:55:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:52:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

No. "Tradishun'l fam'ly valyas" are exactly what's wrong with this country.

I disagree. There's nothing wrong with having a family together. One major problem is people having one night stands, getting pregnant, and then the partner leaves resulting in many single parents. A majority of people at or below the poverty line are single mothers. I'm not really sure that's what this thread is about though.

This is definitely part of the breakdown. There are many other pieces to the pie, but that is a big one. How are these kids growing up? They live with a single parent who cannot adequately provide. That is a recipe for disaster, as the education in this country becomes more and more watered down. I fear I may see the day when we cannot find The USA on a map of North America.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I find that one of the most detrimental things to society today is the belief that things should 'stay the same' or that the 'past was better'. What BS.

Everything evolves. Our understanding, our perspectives, our opinions, our beliefs... Nothing is exempt from constantly changing. Why worry about 'how good it was back in the day'?

My favorite quote my father ever told me was:

Fvck the past. Forget the future. Focus on the present.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
gavin.ogden
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10/30/2010 7:54:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 6:33:15 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Society isn't changing or breaking down; however, people's perceptions of society are. Rape, murder, molestation, discrimination, and other crimes have only decreased over time. The difference is that people are more educated and informed of the evils in this world, which generates the faulty perception that degrading family values are coinciding with the *perception* of increased crime and societal hardship.

I beg to differ. Things are acceptable today that were not acceptable 20 years ago. Young girls and their families were ashamed if the girl got pregnant. Now it's as if they are proud. The welfare system is a complete nightmare, and I'm personally tired of signing the check. Our children are held up too high, and the levels of education and discipline are too low. There is a reason our economy is in the tank, and our kids are ignorant and lazy. Behold, society accepts things that are unacceptable if we ever want to regain our status in the world.

Divorce rates were not higher in the past because despite how terrible and abusive a husband might have been, it was taboo for a wife to file for divorce. Today's society is more accepting of independent women, which has motivated higher divorce rates, and is ultimately preferable for the wife and the child.

You have just concluded that any increase in divorce rate was due to abusive husbands. That is absurd. While I agree that divorce is more widely accepted now, it has nothing to do with abusive husbands, but society at large. Finally, to say a child is better off with no father is completely contradictory to statistical proof that children from single parent households are less likely to flourish.
http://www.census.gov...

Societal breakdown is mainly the result of socioeconomic, educational, and political degradation. Higher abortion rates and a growing Atheist presence is hardly the cause of any society's downfall. Such an awry claim requires some substantial evidence, so if anyone has any, please feel free to present it.

What do you think causes this degradation? I never mentioned abortion or Atheism. I don't think either of these things are even negative. I am simply stating that the degradation you are referring to is directly related to the breakdown in the social/family structure. Example: One child is on a sports team and eats dinner with his parents at 7pm. The other has a single mother working 60 hours a week to provide, and plays video games all day. Which will be successful and happy in life? Statistics say that the first child has a much better chance. It just makes sense.
gavin.ogden
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10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:
I find that one of the most detrimental things to society today is the belief that things should 'stay the same' or that the 'past was better'. What BS.

Everything evolves. Our understanding, our perspectives, our opinions, our beliefs... Nothing is exempt from constantly changing. Why worry about 'how good it was back in the day'?

My favorite quote my father ever told me was:

Fvck the past. Forget the future. Focus on the present.

What if the past was better? Evolution takes millions of years. Our society has changed so quickly, we have not had time the see the forrest for the trees. To simply focus on the present is the breakdown. That is why it is important to think before you act. The Darwyn awards always go to the ones living only in the present, with no regard for their future. Moreover, he who forgets the past(or just says fvck it) is doomed to repeat it. It is called learning from mistakes, so you can make the best decision in the present that will give you a better future.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/30/2010 8:16:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:
I find that one of the most detrimental things to society today is the belief that things should 'stay the same' or that the 'past was better'. What BS.

Everything evolves. Our understanding, our perspectives, our opinions, our beliefs... Nothing is exempt from constantly changing. Why worry about 'how good it was back in the day'?

My favorite quote my father ever told me was:

Fvck the past. Forget the future. Focus on the present.

What if the past was better?

How was it better? I would rather live now, where MORE knowledge can be found and accessed. Where MORE things, such as divorce, homosexuality or abortion, are accepted.

Evolution takes millions of years.

That doesn't mean anything. I never said things change at a FAST rate but they're constantly changing nonetheless.

Our society has changed so quickly, we have not had time the see the forrest for the trees.

So? We acquired more knowledge which caused society to evolve around that... Scientific advances. Technological advances. Advances in acceptance and tolerance.
These have all contributed to a new 'era'. Yes, there might be some drawbacks but in comparison to the past, what about modern times is WORST to you?

To simply focus on the present is the breakdown.

You cannot ONLY focus on the present. However, "future tripping" and living in the past is also detrimental. You can draw experiences from the past and create goals for the future, but in the end - it's all to service RIGHT NOW.

That is why it is important to think before you act.

Yes, of course. How does that have anything to do with this though?

The Darwyn awards always go to the ones living only in the present, with no regard for their future. Moreover, he who forgets the past(or just says fvck it) is doomed to repeat it. It is called learning from mistakes, so you can make the best decision in the present that will give you a better future.

That's my entire point. However this thread seems to be centered around the 'good ole times' instead of what we can do right now to make things better. Why can't we draw the good from the past (though I can find little) and find modern ways to apply it to right now? These sweeping over-generalizations that the US society is crumbling in modern times is unfounded, though.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
gavin.ogden
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10/30/2010 8:29:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:16:47 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:
I find that one of the most detrimental things to society today is the belief that things should 'stay the same' or that the 'past was better'. What BS.

Everything evolves. Our understanding, our perspectives, our opinions, our beliefs... Nothing is exempt from constantly changing. Why worry about 'how good it was back in the day'?

My favorite quote my father ever told me was:

Fvck the past. Forget the future. Focus on the present.

What if the past was better?

How was it better? I would rather live now, where MORE knowledge can be found and accessed. Where MORE things, such as divorce, homosexuality or abortion, are accepted.

Evolution takes millions of years.

That doesn't mean anything. I never said things change at a FAST rate but they're constantly changing nonetheless.

Our society has changed so quickly, we have not had time the see the forrest for the trees.

So? We acquired more knowledge which caused society to evolve around that... Scientific advances. Technological advances. Advances in acceptance and tolerance.
These have all contributed to a new 'era'. Yes, there might be some drawbacks but in comparison to the past, what about modern times is WORST to you?

To simply focus on the present is the breakdown.

You cannot ONLY focus on the present. However, "future tripping" and living in the past is also detrimental. You can draw experiences from the past and create goals for the future, but in the end - it's all to service RIGHT NOW.

That is why it is important to think before you act.

Yes, of course. How does that have anything to do with this though?

The Darwin awards always go to the ones living only in the present, with no regard for their future. Moreover, he who forgets the past(or just says fvck it) is doomed to repeat it. It is called learning from mistakes, so you can make the best decision in the present that will give you a better future.

That's my entire point. However this thread seems to be centered around the 'good ole times' instead of what we can do right now to make things better. Why can't we draw the good from the past (though I can find little) and find modern ways to apply it to right now? These sweeping over-generalizations that the US society is crumbling in modern times is unfounded, though.

We are digressing. I don't want the "good ole days" back. I want us to take a step back and see the positives and negatives in our current state, and eliminate the negatives. We are moving down the latter in all facets of life; education/literacy, economically, socially. My argument is that many of our negatives can be righted simply by refocusing on installation of social and family values.
lovelife
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10/30/2010 8:30:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yes the past was so much better, women forced into abusive relationships, without the rights to leave, fight back, get legal help, etc

Witch hunts, illegality of homosexuality, xenophobia, killing of the natives, slavery, racism, fvck there's a reason 2/3 of my US history class is saying "the U.S was unacceptable so everyone went to Canada"

I honestly can't understand how people can be so backwards when they see what their EXACT same kind of thinking implied just 100 years ago.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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10/30/2010 8:31:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:30:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
Yes the past was so much better, women forced into abusive relationships, without the rights to leave, fight back, get legal help, etc

Witch hunts, illegality of homosexuality, xenophobia, killing of the natives, slavery, racism, fvck there's a reason 2/3 of my US history class is saying "the U.S was unacceptable so everyone went to Canada"

I honestly can't understand how people can be so backwards when they see what their EXACT same kind of thinking implied just 100 years ago.

Lmao this post is the only one on the page and the ad on the side was for a daily bible study. I just thought that was too funny.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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10/30/2010 8:33:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:29:31 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:16:47 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:
I find that one of the most detrimental things to society today is the belief that things should 'stay the same' or that the 'past was better'. What BS.

Everything evolves. Our understanding, our perspectives, our opinions, our beliefs... Nothing is exempt from constantly changing. Why worry about 'how good it was back in the day'?

My favorite quote my father ever told me was:

Fvck the past. Forget the future. Focus on the present.

What if the past was better?

How was it better? I would rather live now, where MORE knowledge can be found and accessed. Where MORE things, such as divorce, homosexuality or abortion, are accepted.

Evolution takes millions of years.

That doesn't mean anything. I never said things change at a FAST rate but they're constantly changing nonetheless.

Our society has changed so quickly, we have not had time the see the forrest for the trees.

So? We acquired more knowledge which caused society to evolve around that... Scientific advances. Technological advances. Advances in acceptance and tolerance.
These have all contributed to a new 'era'. Yes, there might be some drawbacks but in comparison to the past, what about modern times is WORST to you?

To simply focus on the present is the breakdown.

You cannot ONLY focus on the present. However, "future tripping" and living in the past is also detrimental. You can draw experiences from the past and create goals for the future, but in the end - it's all to service RIGHT NOW.

That is why it is important to think before you act.

Yes, of course. How does that have anything to do with this though?

The Darwin awards always go to the ones living only in the present, with no regard for their future. Moreover, he who forgets the past(or just says fvck it) is doomed to repeat it. It is called learning from mistakes, so you can make the best decision in the present that will give you a better future.

That's my entire point. However this thread seems to be centered around the 'good ole times' instead of what we can do right now to make things better. Why can't we draw the good from the past (though I can find little) and find modern ways to apply it to right now? These sweeping over-generalizations that the US society is crumbling in modern times is unfounded, though.

We are digressing. I don't want the "good ole days" back. I want us to take a step back and see the positives and negatives in our current state, and eliminate the negatives. We are moving down the latter in all facets of life; education/literacy, economically, socially. My argument is that many of our negatives can be righted simply by refocusing on installation of social and family values.

Now, what do you believe family values to be exactly? No gays? No working mothers? What exactly? I have never seen someone use that phrase without some sort of backwards thinking involved.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/30/2010 8:35:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:29:31 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:16:47 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:

We are digressing. I don't want the "good ole days" back. I want us to take a step back and see the positives and negatives in our current state, and eliminate the negatives. We are moving down the latter in all facets of life; education/literacy, economically, socially. My argument is that many of our negatives can be righted simply by refocusing on installation of social and family values.

You want to eliminate the negatives by reinstating values from the past? Didn't the past LEAD to this crap we're in now? What we should do is look at the problems objectively and with new perspectives. And then from there, with all the new advances and modernization, decide how we'll reform certain things for the betterment of our age. But social and family values from the past aren't going to help anymore, in my opinion.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
gavin.ogden
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10/30/2010 8:41:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:33:14 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:29:31 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:16:47 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:
I find that one of the most detrimental things to society today is the belief that things should 'stay the same' or that the 'past was better'. What BS.

Everything evolves. Our understanding, our perspectives, our opinions, our beliefs... Nothing is exempt from constantly changing. Why worry about 'how good it was back in the day'?

My favorite quote my father ever told me was:

Fvck the past. Forget the future. Focus on the present.

What if the past was better?

How was it better? I would rather live now, where MORE knowledge can be found and accessed. Where MORE things, such as divorce, homosexuality or abortion, are accepted.

Evolution takes millions of years.

That doesn't mean anything. I never said things change at a FAST rate but they're constantly changing nonetheless.

Our society has changed so quickly, we have not had time the see the forrest for the trees.

So? We acquired more knowledge which caused society to evolve around that... Scientific advances. Technological advances. Advances in acceptance and tolerance.
These have all contributed to a new 'era'. Yes, there might be some drawbacks but in comparison to the past, what about modern times is WORST to you?

To simply focus on the present is the breakdown.

You cannot ONLY focus on the present. However, "future tripping" and living in the past is also detrimental. You can draw experiences from the past and create goals for the future, but in the end - it's all to service RIGHT NOW.

That is why it is important to think before you act.

Yes, of course. How does that have anything to do with this though?

The Darwin awards always go to the ones living only in the present, with no regard for their future. Moreover, he who forgets the past(or just says fvck it) is doomed to repeat it. It is called learning from mistakes, so you can make the best decision in the present that will give you a better future.

That's my entire point. However this thread seems to be centered around the 'good ole times' instead of what we can do right now to make things better. Why can't we draw the good from the past (though I can find little) and find modern ways to apply it to right now? These sweeping over-generalizations that the US society is crumbling in modern times is unfounded, though.

We are digressing. I don't want the "good ole days" back. I want us to take a step back and see the positives and negatives in our current state, and eliminate the negatives. We are moving down the latter in all facets of life; education/literacy, economically, socially. My argument is that many of our negatives can be righted simply by refocusing on installation of social and family values.

Now, what do you believe family values to be exactly? No gays? No working mothers? What exactly? I have never seen someone use that phrase without some sort of backwards thinking involved.

I mean two parents are better than one. I am all for gay couples adopting, and I think if both work, there is more food on the table. Two people can work and balance their schedules for quality family time. When families are involved in each other's lives, they form a support system which can help guide a child toward a more rewarding life. This child will hopefully become an active member in society, who inspires and broadens his/her horizons rather than leaching or floating through life furthering the cycle of complacency.
InsertNameHere
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10/30/2010 8:42:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 6:36:51 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:55:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:52:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

No. "Tradishun'l fam'ly valyas" are exactly what's wrong with this country.

I disagree. There's nothing wrong with having a family together. One major problem is people having one night stands, getting pregnant, and then the partner leaves resulting in many single parents. A majority of people at or below the poverty line are single mothers. I'm not really sure that's what this thread is about though.

One night stands are hardly an issue when an educational system is vigilant in teaching the importance of safe-sex. Condoms and birth control allow people to indulge their biological urges without causing hardship for themselves and their potential children.

They are an issue though, or at least unwanted pregnancies are. If you don't want a child then don't have sex, or use protection/birth control. Simple. I think our society is too open to this sort of thing and it results in all kinds of problems such as poverty-stricken single parents, divorces, etc. Divorces are becoming more and more common and they can have a negative effect on children, especially when they're young(my parents have been divorced since I was six years old so I can speak from experience).
lovelife
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10/30/2010 8:50:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:41:27 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I mean two parents are better than one. I am all for gay couples adopting, and I think if both work, there is more food on the table. Two people can work and balance their schedules for quality family time. When families are involved in each other's lives, they form a support system which can help guide a child toward a more rewarding life. This child will hopefully become an active member in society, who inspires and broadens his/her horizons rather than leaching or floating through life furthering the cycle of complacency.

I could go for that, but how exactly would it work out? Divorce becomes illegal?
Then you have more men, women, and children staying in abusive relationships. What about polygamous relationships/marriages, then you have more parents helping raise the child at home, and working. It would make abuse less likely.
I think its the way to go, it would be much easier to afford anyway and much more likely that someone will be at the house helping raise the child rather than leaving them with some strange babysitter (I mean at a certain age I do think they don't need babied anymore, and I think parents trying to baby their kids past like 11 is doing just as much damage as parents that never see their 6 year olds)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
gavin.ogden
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10/30/2010 8:51:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:35:43 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:29:31 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:16:47 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/30/2010 8:02:54 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 7:34:51 PM, annhasle wrote:

We are digressing. I don't want the "good ole days" back. I want us to take a step back and see the positives and negatives in our current state, and eliminate the negatives. We are moving down the latter in all facets of life; education/literacy, economically, socially. My argument is that many of our negatives can be righted simply by refocusing on installation of social and family values.

You want to eliminate the negatives by reinstating values from the past? Didn't the past LEAD to this crap we're in now? What we should do is look at the problems objectively and with new perspectives. And then from there, with all the new advances and modernization, decide how we'll reform certain things for the betterment of our age. But social and family values from the past aren't going to help anymore, in my opinion.

Are you saying that a well balanced, more socially adept society of young people is a thing of the past? I hope not, because if so my argument is correct. Of course we have to look at the situation objectively, but these are just common values that keep a society strong, not some ancient relic from the past.
lovelife
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10/30/2010 8:57:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 8:42:57 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/30/2010 6:36:51 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:55:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/30/2010 5:52:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/30/2010 4:54:15 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
Is the breakdown of social and family structure in the United States responsible for its present condition and its eventual collapse?

No. "Tradishun'l fam'ly valyas" are exactly what's wrong with this country.

I disagree. There's nothing wrong with having a family together. One major problem is people having one night stands, getting pregnant, and then the partner leaves resulting in many single parents. A majority of people at or below the poverty line are single mothers. I'm not really sure that's what this thread is about though.

One night stands are hardly an issue when an educational system is vigilant in teaching the importance of safe-sex. Condoms and birth control allow people to indulge their biological urges without causing hardship for themselves and their potential children.

They are an issue though, or at least unwanted pregnancies are. If you don't want a child then don't have sex, or use protection/birth control. Simple.

It doesn't always work, and people should be allowed to have sex with any other consenting adult[s] they wish.

I think our society is too open to this sort of thing

What?

and it results in all kinds of problems such as poverty-stricken single parents, divorces, etc. Divorces are becoming more and more common and they can have a negative effect on children, especially when they're young(my parents have been divorced since I was six years old so I can speak from experience).

Nah, I think the real issue with single parents and divorce is exactly what my mom told me, parents are teaching their children that if they have a problem leave, don't try and sort it out just dump em and get it over with. (in the form of media, how they are living their lives, what they tell them when they have relationship problems etc)
I would say that when parents argue they should do so politely, non-violently, and in a reasonable tone of voice, to show children how to better cope.

My parents have been divorced since I was 5 (well the papers didn't actually go through until I was 6, just couple weeks before my mom re-married)
And my mom and step-dad fight all the time, and its really bad. I think the fighting is worse for the children than the divorce. I'm not 100% sure tho since that was a very busy year in my life, and ever since I've had to be in counseling, and ultimately diagnosed with depression, when before I was happy, loving, even preppy-ish)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
TheAtheistAllegiance
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10/30/2010 8:59:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/30/2010 7:54:06 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 10/30/2010 6:33:15 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Society isn't changing or breaking down; however, people's perceptions of society are. Rape, murder, molestation, discrimination, and other crimes have only decreased over time. The difference is that people are more educated and informed of the evils in this world, which generates the faulty perception that degrading family values are coinciding with the *perception* of increased crime and societal hardship.

I beg to differ. Things are acceptable today that were not acceptable 20 years ago. Young girls and their families were ashamed if the girl got pregnant. Now it's as if they are proud. The welfare system is a complete nightmare, and I'm personally tired of signing the check. Our children are held up too high, and the levels of education and discipline are too low. There is a reason our economy is in the tank, and our kids are ignorant and lazy. Behold, society accepts things that are unacceptable if we ever want to regain our status in the world.

Yes, these days families do not outcast pregnant teenagers to the extent of a nation that enforces Sharia Law. Overall, this is a leap of acceptance that will foster an environment of help and support rather than intolerance and condemnation, which only helps someone in that situation. Also, America's economic problems are not caused by lazy kids, as demonstrated by a 9.6% unemployment rate, which means that people are looking for work, but cannot find any.

Divorce rates were not higher in the past because despite how terrible and abusive a husband might have been, it was taboo for a wife to file for divorce. Today's society is more accepting of independent women, which has motivated higher divorce rates, and is ultimately preferable for the wife and the child.

You have just concluded that any increase in divorce rate was due to abusive husbands. That is absurd. While I agree that divorce is more widely accepted now, it has nothing to do with abusive husbands, but society at large. Finally, to say a child is better off with no father is completely contradictory to statistical proof that children from single parent households are less likely to flourish.
http://www.census.gov...

According to this http://en.wikipedia.org... , most divorces are caused by affairs and abuse, both of which being a situation that women should have the right to walk away from without being ostracized from society. To advocate anything less is to advocate a degradation of a female's freedom to choose, which actually ends up degrading society as a whole. Also, I stated that divorces are preferable for children who are suffering from an abusive father.

Societal breakdown is mainly the result of socioeconomic, educational, and political degradation. Higher abortion rates and a growing Atheist presence is hardly the cause of any society's downfall. Such an awry claim requires some substantial evidence, so if anyone has any, please feel free to present it.

What do you think causes this degradation? I never mentioned abortion or Atheism. I don't think either of these things are even negative. I am simply stating that the degradation you are referring to is directly related to the breakdown in the social/family structure. Example: One child is on a sports team and eats dinner with his parents at 7pm. The other has a single mother working 60 hours a week to provide, and plays video games all day. Which will be successful and happy in life? Statistics say that the first child has a much better chance. It just makes sense.

You're confusing which scenario precedes the other. A lack of education, socioeconomic mobility, and political stability is the root cause behind single mothers and dysfunctional families.