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Patriarchy is a Mental Disorder.

Rosalie
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2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Rosalie
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2/1/2016 8:40:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
A sexual revolution begins with the emancipation of women, who are the chief victims of patriarchy, and also with the ending of homosexual oppression.
- Kate Millett
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Raisor
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2/1/2016 8:58:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
This is a lot of bad armchair psychology.

Women have egos too, plenty of women want power and prestige and wealth etc. none of the motives you describe are unique to men.

Moreover, modern sexism (there are exceptions in certain demographics) is not explicitly about subjugation of women. It's largely in gender norms and often unintentionally discriminatory behavior. For example, the norms surrounding paternity and maternity leave make it harder for men to share the burden of childbirth and harder for women to maintain careers. The causes of these are mostly a legacy of gender norms in childcare and the inherent stinginess of capital in doling out benefits. It has nothing to do with a desire to keep women down and board resources for men. Most men would probably appreciate generous paternity benefits, it would benefit men and women.

I'm just generally skeptical of descriptions of gender dynamics that treat the issue as monolithic, and even more skeptical of broad psychological causal accounts.
Raisor
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2/1/2016 9:01:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
The psychological stuff in the op is bunk, but it undeniable that power dynamics and competition for resources are a factor in the repression of women in many places.

but even where those factors are relevant, there are other relevant factors like religion and tradition which cannot be ignored.
janesix
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2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.
Rosalie
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2/1/2016 9:03:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 8:58:25 PM, Raisor wrote:
This is a lot of bad armchair psychology.

Women have egos too, plenty of women want power and prestige and wealth etc. none of the motives you describe are unique to men.

I didn't say that's not true. I'm talking about men who believe and want a patriarchal system.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Rosalie
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2/1/2016 9:04:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.

I get what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the actual OP of this thread.

And you can't prove that its a natural behavior of men. You're claim could be disproven so many times.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
lamerde
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2/1/2016 9:07:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 8:58:25 PM, Raisor wrote:
This is a lot of bad armchair psychology.

Women have egos too, plenty of women want power and prestige and wealth etc. none of the motives you describe are unique to men.

Moreover, modern sexism (there are exceptions in certain demographics) is not explicitly about subjugation of women. It's largely in gender norms and often unintentionally discriminatory behavior. For example, the norms surrounding paternity and maternity leave make it harder for men to share the burden of childbirth and harder for women to maintain careers. The causes of these are mostly a legacy of gender norms in childcare and the inherent stinginess of capital in doling out benefits. It has nothing to do with a desire to keep women down and board resources for men. Most men would probably appreciate generous paternity benefits, it would benefit men and women.

I'm just generally skeptical of descriptions of gender dynamics that treat the issue as monolithic, and even more skeptical of broad psychological causal accounts.

I would argue that gender norms (such as lack of paternity leave) are still dictated by men. When people talk of men also facing the negative consequences of sexism, these were systems created by them in the first place.
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janesix
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2/1/2016 9:07:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:04:44 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.

I get what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the actual OP of this thread.

And you can't prove that its a natural behavior of men. You're claim could be disproven so many times.

Yes it does have to do with the op. Patriarchy isn't a mental disorder, it's a natural way for men to behave.
Rosalie
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2/1/2016 9:08:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:07:43 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:04:44 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.

I get what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the actual OP of this thread.

And you can't prove that its a natural behavior of men. You're claim could be disproven so many times.

Yes it does have to do with the op. Patriarchy isn't a mental disorder, it's a natural way for men to behave.

Prove it.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Rosalie
Posts: 4,605
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2/1/2016 9:09:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:07:43 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:04:44 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.

I get what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the actual OP of this thread.

And you can't prove that its a natural behavior of men. You're claim could be disproven so many times.

Yes it does have to do with the op. Patriarchy isn't a mental disorder, it's a natural way for men to behave.

And no, it's not a "natural way for men to behave" because I know many families where the dad has just walked-up and left their wife, and children, and never have had any contact with them ever again,
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Raisor
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2/1/2016 9:10:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.

I have a friend who recently had a child. His wife made more than twice as much as he did, and he hated his job. He is a stay at home dad and is much happier. He is also a gear head who fixes boats and atv's on the side. He stays active in his interests while supporting his family as a care giver? Why is this not rational?

Also, Spartan women, Mongolian women, all learned how to fight and defended against invading armies. There were many Russian women on the front lines of WW2. Do women not also have a natural inclination to protecting their family?
janesix
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2/1/2016 9:10:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:08:31 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:07:43 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:04:44 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:02:49 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

Protecting and supporting females and their children is a natural behavior of men. Just like taking care of the children is a natural behavior of women.

If the sexes just did their natural part, we would have a rational society.

I get what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the actual OP of this thread.

And you can't prove that its a natural behavior of men. You're claim could be disproven so many times.

Yes it does have to do with the op. Patriarchy isn't a mental disorder, it's a natural way for men to behave.

Prove it.

History proves it.
Maikuru
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2/1/2016 9:10:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I don't have time to respond to this thread in detail, but I'll point out one bit that may be of interest: the vast majority of histrionic personality disorder diagnoses occur in women. Narcissistic personality disorder is the 'male equivalent,' though this is an oversimplification for the sake of time. Of course, some claim this disparity is itself an example of psychology's patriarchal roots.
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Raisor
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2/1/2016 9:14:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:03:13 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:58:25 PM, Raisor wrote:
This is a lot of bad armchair psychology.

Women have egos too, plenty of women want power and prestige and wealth etc. none of the motives you describe are unique to men.

I didn't say that's not true. I'm talking about men who believe and want a patriarchal system.

Men who actively want a patriarchy are a very small part of the problem, that's my point. Get rid of all of those men and you still have unfair expectations of childcare, gender norms that make office politics more difficult for women, barriers to reproductive control, etc

I mean if the point of the post is to talk about a small portion of men who believe incredibly we it stuff...ok....I still think it's simplistic psychology
Rosalie
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2/1/2016 9:18:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:14:34 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:03:13 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:58:25 PM, Raisor wrote:
This is a lot of bad armchair psychology.

Women have egos too, plenty of women want power and prestige and wealth etc. none of the motives you describe are unique to men.

I didn't say that's not true. I'm talking about men who believe and want a patriarchal system.

Men who actively want a patriarchy are a very small part of the problem, that's my point. Get rid of all of those men and you still have unfair expectations of childcare, gender norms that make office politics more difficult for women, barriers to reproductive control, etc

I mean if the point of the post is to talk about a small portion of men who believe incredibly we it stuff...ok....I still think it's simplistic psychology

Well of course, but I'm talking about men who discourage women from working in the actual workplace, men who firmly *believe* that a women has no right to work, and instead should stay and work inside the household.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Raisor
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2/1/2016 9:18:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:07:06 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:58:25 PM, Raisor wrote:
This is a lot of bad armchair psychology.

Women have egos too, plenty of women want power and prestige and wealth etc. none of the motives you describe are unique to men.

Moreover, modern sexism (there are exceptions in certain demographics) is not explicitly about subjugation of women. It's largely in gender norms and often unintentionally discriminatory behavior. For example, the norms surrounding paternity and maternity leave make it harder for men to share the burden of childbirth and harder for women to maintain careers. The causes of these are mostly a legacy of gender norms in childcare and the inherent stinginess of capital in doling out benefits. It has nothing to do with a desire to keep women down and board resources for men. Most men would probably appreciate generous paternity benefits, it would benefit men and women.

I'm just generally skeptical of descriptions of gender dynamics that treat the issue as monolithic, and even more skeptical of broad psychological causal accounts.

I would argue that gender norms (such as lack of paternity leave) are still dictated by men. When people talk of men also facing the negative consequences of sexism, these were systems created by them in the first place.

Uhh...ok? What does the fact that I am hurt by policies instituted by other people who share my gender imply?

Men are hurt by sexist policies. That is one of many reasons men should be interested in fighting these policies.
PetersSmith
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2/1/2016 9:26:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

I'm a matriarchal feminist and even I think this is dumb, and that's saying something. You're accusing a societal issue of being a mental disorder, and also accusing man's innate controlling desire of being a mental disorder. If your plan is to "treat" man's mentality through psychotherapy then that is one of the worst and dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. And histrionic personality disorder, really? You're accusing all men of having a personality disorder simply because they control women and want to be superior? How ridiculous.
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Rosalie
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2/1/2016 9:28:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:26:16 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

I'm a matriarchal feminist and even I think this is dumb, and that's saying something. You're accusing a societal issue of being a mental disorder, and also accusing man's innate controlling desire of being a mental disorder. If your plan is to "treat" man's mentality through psychotherapy then that is one of the worst and dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. And histrionic personality disorder, really? You're accusing all men of having a personality disorder simply because they control women and want to be superior? How ridiculous.

Woah. There are allot of flaws in you're statement. I will correct them in a bit, I need to go do math homework right now.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

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lamerde
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2/1/2016 9:33:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:18:33 PM, Raisor wrote:

Uhh...ok? What does the fact that I am hurt by policies instituted by other people who share my gender imply?

Men are hurt by sexist policies. That is one of many reasons men should be interested in fighting these policies.

The point is that these gender norms are byproducts of a patriarchal society... you say women have power too as though women are the reason these gender norms are forced upon you. Yes, men are subjugated too, but what I'm pointing out is that this subjugation is done by other men.

Although I agree that not only women are negatively affected by sexism, it sounded like you were implying subjugation is a two-way street.
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Raisor
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2/1/2016 9:46:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:33:35 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:18:33 PM, Raisor wrote:

Uhh...ok? What does the fact that I am hurt by policies instituted by other people who share my gender imply?

Men are hurt by sexist policies. That is one of many reasons men should be interested in fighting these policies.

The point is that these gender norms are byproducts of a patriarchal society... you say women have power too as though women are the reason these gender norms are forced upon you. Yes, men are subjugated too, but what I'm pointing out is that this subjugation is done by other men.

Although I agree that not only women are negatively affected by sexism, it sounded like you were implying subjugation is a two-way street.

That wasn't what I was implying at all...

But women definitely replicate gender norms. I also don't think there is any real subjugation going on that a particular gender can be blamed for. I think you ascribe too much agency and forethought to complicated social forces.

Mother Theresa was an outspoken anti-choice advocate...do you blame her for subjugating women the same way you blame someone like Ted Cruz? I blame neither, we all exist in a web of norms and ideas...
NumberOneGuy
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2/1/2016 10:04:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
There is a lot of history behind men using their ability to have and control women as status symbol of their worth. women have a much better ability to provide for themselves and control their own lives now than before but for men the social status connection to the kinds of women they can get and command still exists strongly. what complicates things even more is that alot of women are attracted to men they can look up to as being in charge of them and so if men want that dynamic it makes sense for them to emulate these men and so it is a very slow process trying to have true equality of the sexes.

there is alot of incentive to act patriarchal because if it works out for you then great but if it doesn't then you are still no worse off than if you were a male feminist who can not find an attractive compatible girlfriend, and if you are a male feminist and it does work out for you, then good but for the man perhaps not as good as if they were the one in charge of the relationship. so this is a problem of incentives that women have the power to change by choosing male feminists and not pro-patriarchy jerks.
lamerde
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2/1/2016 10:05:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:46:16 PM, Raisor wrote:

That wasn't what I was implying at all...

But women definitely replicate gender norms. I also don't think there is any real subjugation going on that a particular gender can be blamed for. I think you ascribe too much agency and forethought to complicated social forces.

These social forces didn't arise out of thin air - one group had or manufactured power and was able to create a system that benefitted that group. It's become so much of a norm that it seems like there's no agency or forethought...

Mother Theresa was an outspoken anti-choice advocate...do you blame her for subjugating women the same way you blame someone like Ted Cruz? I blame neither, we all exist in a web of norms and ideas...

It's interesting that you use that example considering

1) Mother Theresa was operating under the auspices of the Catholic Church (a male institution for as long as we've had records about it)

and

2) it is an example of women subjugating women, not women subjugating men.

I think gender norms arise out of patriarchy and I would be hard-pressed to think of an example where the root cause of a negative male gender norm could be traced back to a woman.
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Torton
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2/1/2016 10:08:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Is it sexist? Yeah, but it's not a mental disorder (and I'm not even sure you can attempt to call it that, since it's a system, not a specific opinion). These sort of threads need to stop, though, they're beyond ridiculous.
lamerde
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2/1/2016 10:12:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
@ Raisor

I guess what I'm saying is that, if we're going to be armchair psychologists, the same "mental disorders" that may apply to males engaging in sexist systems would probably not apply to women engaging in those same systems (i.e., there would be other "disorders" for women). I do think your statements "women have egos too" and "men are subjugated too" have implications - the question of who is doing the subjugation is absolutely important.
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bballcrook21
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2/1/2016 10:19:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 9:26:16 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

I'm a matriarchal feminist and even I think this is dumb, and that's saying something. You're accusing a societal issue of being a mental disorder, and also accusing man's innate controlling desire of being a mental disorder. If your plan is to "treat" man's mentality through psychotherapy then that is one of the worst and dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. And histrionic personality disorder, really? You're accusing all men of having a personality disorder simply because they control women and want to be superior? How ridiculous.

A matriarchal feminist?

Jeez, if women ruled the world.... Oh, the horror.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Rosalie
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2/1/2016 10:24:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 10:19:35 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:26:16 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

I'm a matriarchal feminist and even I think this is dumb, and that's saying something. You're accusing a societal issue of being a mental disorder, and also accusing man's innate controlling desire of being a mental disorder. If your plan is to "treat" man's mentality through psychotherapy then that is one of the worst and dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. And histrionic personality disorder, really? You're accusing all men of having a personality disorder simply because they control women and want to be superior? How ridiculous.

A matriarchal feminist?

Jeez, if women ruled the world.... Oh, the horror.

No..imagine if we had men like you who ruled the world. That would horrific.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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2/1/2016 10:26:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

Any system with bias for any gender is a hurtful system, but matriarchy is much more hurtful than patriarchy, unless you have vast amounts of it. You currently have the legal rights, and privileges over men, to pursue any degree or chase any ambition you would like. Women and minorities have scholarships set up specifically for them so they can succeed. If you cannot wield this institutionalized and societal advantage in a Western nation, then that is your fault. Don't blame your woes on the success of men, as women would be nothing and this world would be worthless if the success of men had not come into play.

Women are biologically maternal, while men are the bread-winner. If you want to change biology become a eugenicist and start cloning.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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2/1/2016 10:28:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 10:24:51 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 10:19:35 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:26:16 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

I'm a matriarchal feminist and even I think this is dumb, and that's saying something. You're accusing a societal issue of being a mental disorder, and also accusing man's innate controlling desire of being a mental disorder. If your plan is to "treat" man's mentality through psychotherapy then that is one of the worst and dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. And histrionic personality disorder, really? You're accusing all men of having a personality disorder simply because they control women and want to be superior? How ridiculous.

A matriarchal feminist?

Jeez, if women ruled the world.... Oh, the horror.

No..imagine if we had men like you who ruled the world. That would horrific.

Men like me?

I am extremely fair. My Libertarian principles are vastly more important to me than my principles of gender and society. I don't even believe in people ruling over another, as that detracts from freedom of individuals.

If we took these feminists who believe that everything is a social construct, and then allowed them to rule large nations (luckily this won't happen), then our civilization would fall. Imagine annoying emotional women with extreme narcissism running large economies. Horrid.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Rosalie
Posts: 4,605
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2/1/2016 10:37:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 10:28:42 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/1/2016 10:24:51 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 2/1/2016 10:19:35 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/1/2016 9:26:16 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 2/1/2016 8:36:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I think its important to first define "Patriarchy"

Patriarchy- "A society or system which is ruled or controlled by men. Patriarchy is a hierarchy in society such as women earn less money than men. Patriarchy is not just formed by men. It has a connection with a social economic system such as capitalism. According to Heidi Hartmann, patriarchy is "Controlling women"s access to resources and their sexuality, in turn, allows men to control women"s labor power, both for the purpose of serving men in many personal and sexual ways and for the purpose of rearing children"

Patriarchy is a hurtful system. It simply oppresses women making their life's a hell, and the men simply don't care. All they *do* care about is the fact that THEY should be the ones controlling everything. *They* should be making more money. *They* should be the ones working higher-up jobs. *They* should be the bread winner, and *They* should have say in everything.

I'd like to think that this is a result of low-self esteem, but I think it's really not. It's the need to feel empowered, and superior to the opposite gender. They want to dominate women, and they want us (women) to be dependent on them. Actually the more I think about it, the more I believe this is a result of low-self esteem.

" Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality. Someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people.. While often lively, interesting and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren"t focused exclusively on them."

I mean, this explains so much! Men are the ones who want to be seen, and want to make themselves seem more superior to women. They're merely feel threatened.

Now please (men) don't try and attack me. Please try and contribute some worthy posts.

I'm a matriarchal feminist and even I think this is dumb, and that's saying something. You're accusing a societal issue of being a mental disorder, and also accusing man's innate controlling desire of being a mental disorder. If your plan is to "treat" man's mentality through psychotherapy then that is one of the worst and dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. And histrionic personality disorder, really? You're accusing all men of having a personality disorder simply because they control women and want to be superior? How ridiculous.

A matriarchal feminist?

Jeez, if women ruled the world.... Oh, the horror.

No..imagine if we had men like you who ruled the world. That would horrific.

Men like me?

I am extremely fair. My Libertarian principles are vastly more important to me than my principles of gender and society. I don't even believe in people ruling over another, as that detracts from freedom of individuals.

If we took these feminists who believe that everything is a social construct, and then allowed them to rule large nations (luckily this won't happen), then our civilization would fall. Imagine annoying emotional women with extreme narcissism running large economies. Horrid.

This may have just been the most immature response all day.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16