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Overly Confident People

Rosalie
Posts: 4,612
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3/1/2016 6:00:01 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Have you ever met someone, who is so arrogant, to where they won't even listen to what you have to say--and assume they're always right? They dismiss everyone's opinions because they assume there correct.

Study proves that overly confident people trick people into think that they're smart, when they're actually not.

Over-confident people fool others into believing they are smarter than they really are.

Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived
Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived

People with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters

People who are overconfident fool others into believing they are more talented than they really are, according to a study.

Researchers said those with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters.

These people are more likely to overestimate other people's talents, and therefore take greater risks, according to academics from Newcastle and Exeter universities.

The study, published in the journal PLOS ONE, also reported that those who underestimate their own skills are seen as less able than they actually are by colleagues.

In the study, 72 students were asked to rate their own ability and the ability of their peers after the first day of their course.

Of those, 32 students (about 45%) were under confident in their ability as compared to their final mark, 29 students (40%) were overconfident and 11 (15%) were accurate in their assessments of their own ability.

There was a positive correlation between the grades students predicted for themselves and the grades others predicted for them.

In other words, students who predicted higher grades for themselves were predicted to have higher grades by others, irrespective of their actual final score.

The same applied to those who were under confident.

The task was repeated after six weeks of the course when the students knew each other better and the findings remained the same. Those who were overconfident were over-rated by others.

Study author Dr Vivek Nityananda, research associate at Newcastle University's Institute of Neuroscience, said: 'These findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived.

'We think this supports an evolutionary theory of self-deception.

'It can be beneficial to have others believe you are better than you are and the best way to do this is to deceive yourself - which might be what we have evolved to do.

'This can cause problems as overconfident people may also be more likely to take risks.

'So if too many people overrate themselves and deceive others about their abilities within organisations, then this could lead to disastrous consequences such as airplane crashes or financial collapses.'

Joint lead author Dr Shakti Lamba, of the University of Exeter, added: 'If overconfident people are more likely to be risk prone then by promoting them we may be creating institutions, such as banks and armies, that are more vulnerable to risk.'

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk...)
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/1/2016 6:36:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Dunning-Kruger effect. Not only does ignorance lead to illusory confidence, but intellectual humility is often necessary for the growth of knowledge. The day that I say 'I know enough about topic x' is the day that I stop learning about topic x and start being more concerned about defending a perceived expert status.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
Posts: 36,322
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3/1/2016 9:23:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 6:00:01 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Have you ever met someone, who is so arrogant, to where they won't even listen to what you have to say--and assume they're always right? They dismiss everyone's opinions because they assume there correct.

Study proves that overly confident people trick people into think that they're smart, when they're actually not.

Over-confident people fool others into believing they are smarter than they really are.


Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived
Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived

People with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters

People who are overconfident fool others into believing they are more talented than they really are, according to a study.

Researchers said those with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters.

These people are more likely to overestimate other people's talents, and therefore take greater risks, according to academics from Newcastle and Exeter universities.

The study, published in the journal PLOS ONE, also reported that those who underestimate their own skills are seen as less able than they actually are by colleagues.

In the study, 72 students were asked to rate their own ability and the ability of their peers after the first day of their course.

Of those, 32 students (about 45%) were under confident in their ability as compared to their final mark, 29 students (40%) were overconfident and 11 (15%) were accurate in their assessments of their own ability.

There was a positive correlation between the grades students predicted for themselves and the grades others predicted for them.

In other words, students who predicted higher grades for themselves were predicted to have higher grades by others, irrespective of their actual final score.

The same applied to those who were under confident.

The task was repeated after six weeks of the course when the students knew each other better and the findings remained the same. Those who were overconfident were over-rated by others.

Study author Dr Vivek Nityananda, research associate at Newcastle University's Institute of Neuroscience, said: 'These findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived.

'We think this supports an evolutionary theory of self-deception.

'It can be beneficial to have others believe you are better than you are and the best way to do this is to deceive yourself - which might be what we have evolved to do.

'This can cause problems as overconfident people may also be more likely to take risks.

'So if too many people overrate themselves and deceive others about their abilities within organisations, then this could lead to disastrous consequences such as airplane crashes or financial collapses.'

Joint lead author Dr Shakti Lamba, of the University of Exeter, added: 'If overconfident people are more likely to be risk prone then by promoting them we may be creating institutions, such as banks and armies, that are more vulnerable to risk.'

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk...)

Yiannopoulis really got under your skin?
Tsar of DDO
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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3/1/2016 9:44:13 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 6:00:01 PM, Rosalie wrote:

'So if too many people overrate themselves and deceive others about their abilities within organisations, then this could lead to disastrous consequences such as airplane crashes or financial collapses.'

Joint lead author Dr Shakti Lamba, of the University of Exeter, added: 'If overconfident people are more likely to be risk prone then by promoting them we may be creating institutions, such as banks and armies, that are more vulnerable to risk.'

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk...)

In terms of banks, stock markets, and the like, people who choose careers in them are more likely to have psychopathic tendencies also if I recall. Mainly because to be able to play fast and loose with others livelihoods and sleep at the end of the day requires a disconnect from empathizing with that situation.

And yes, these tendencies you've laid out, and the other mental tendencies of such individuals are a considerable factor in financial collapses. People more concerned with themselves escalate and accelerate downfalls.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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3/1/2016 9:45:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 6:36:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Dunning-Kruger effect. Not only does ignorance lead to illusory confidence, but intellectual humility is often necessary for the growth of knowledge. The day that I say 'I know enough about topic x' is the day that I stop learning about topic x and start being more concerned about defending a perceived expert status.

Well said. A bit of confidence is a good thing though, not too much, but a fair amount has positive effects
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Rosalie
Posts: 4,612
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3/1/2016 10:13:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:23:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/1/2016 6:00:01 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Have you ever met someone, who is so arrogant, to where they won't even listen to what you have to say--and assume they're always right? They dismiss everyone's opinions because they assume there correct.

Study proves that overly confident people trick people into think that they're smart, when they're actually not.

Over-confident people fool others into believing they are smarter than they really are.


Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived
Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived

People with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters

People who are overconfident fool others into believing they are more talented than they really are, according to a study.

Researchers said those with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters.

These people are more likely to overestimate other people's talents, and therefore take greater risks, according to academics from Newcastle and Exeter universities.

The study, published in the journal PLOS ONE, also reported that those who underestimate their own skills are seen as less able than they actually are by colleagues.

In the study, 72 students were asked to rate their own ability and the ability of their peers after the first day of their course.

Of those, 32 students (about 45%) were under confident in their ability as compared to their final mark, 29 students (40%) were overconfident and 11 (15%) were accurate in their assessments of their own ability.

There was a positive correlation between the grades students predicted for themselves and the grades others predicted for them.

In other words, students who predicted higher grades for themselves were predicted to have higher grades by others, irrespective of their actual final score.

The same applied to those who were under confident.

The task was repeated after six weeks of the course when the students knew each other better and the findings remained the same. Those who were overconfident were over-rated by others.

Study author Dr Vivek Nityananda, research associate at Newcastle University's Institute of Neuroscience, said: 'These findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived.

'We think this supports an evolutionary theory of self-deception.

'It can be beneficial to have others believe you are better than you are and the best way to do this is to deceive yourself - which might be what we have evolved to do.

'This can cause problems as overconfident people may also be more likely to take risks.

'So if too many people overrate themselves and deceive others about their abilities within organisations, then this could lead to disastrous consequences such as airplane crashes or financial collapses.'

Joint lead author Dr Shakti Lamba, of the University of Exeter, added: 'If overconfident people are more likely to be risk prone then by promoting them we may be creating institutions, such as banks and armies, that are more vulnerable to risk.'

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk...)

Yiannopoulis really got under your skin?

Ha.........Ha........

No, someone else, actually.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/1/2016 11:27:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 6:00:01 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Have you ever met someone, who is so arrogant, to where they won't even listen to what you have to say--and assume they're always right? They dismiss everyone's opinions because they assume there correct.

Study proves that overly confident people trick people into think that they're smart, when they're actually not.

Over-confident people fool others into believing they are smarter than they really are.


Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived
Findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived

People with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters

People who are overconfident fool others into believing they are more talented than they really are, according to a study.

Researchers said those with an inflated view of their own abilities are more likely to succeed at work - and could partially explain banking collapses and other disasters.

These people are more likely to overestimate other people's talents, and therefore take greater risks, according to academics from Newcastle and Exeter universities.

The study, published in the journal PLOS ONE, also reported that those who underestimate their own skills are seen as less able than they actually are by colleagues.

In the study, 72 students were asked to rate their own ability and the ability of their peers after the first day of their course.

Of those, 32 students (about 45%) were under confident in their ability as compared to their final mark, 29 students (40%) were overconfident and 11 (15%) were accurate in their assessments of their own ability.

There was a positive correlation between the grades students predicted for themselves and the grades others predicted for them.

In other words, students who predicted higher grades for themselves were predicted to have higher grades by others, irrespective of their actual final score.

The same applied to those who were under confident.

The task was repeated after six weeks of the course when the students knew each other better and the findings remained the same. Those who were overconfident were over-rated by others.

Study author Dr Vivek Nityananda, research associate at Newcastle University's Institute of Neuroscience, said: 'These findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived.

'We think this supports an evolutionary theory of self-deception.

'It can be beneficial to have others believe you are better than you are and the best way to do this is to deceive yourself - which might be what we have evolved to do.

'This can cause problems as overconfident people may also be more likely to take risks.

'So if too many people overrate themselves and deceive others about their abilities within organisations, then this could lead to disastrous consequences such as airplane crashes or financial collapses.'

Joint lead author Dr Shakti Lamba, of the University of Exeter, added: 'If overconfident people are more likely to be risk prone then by promoting them we may be creating institutions, such as banks and armies, that are more vulnerable to risk.'

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk...)

Excellent post.

What's particularly disconcerting is that the majority of people are utterly imperceptive - entirely incapable of distinguishing confidence from bombast.... and it's not even as if the difference is subtle.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/2/2016 12:24:35 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
^^^ of course I'm adverting to the fact that your post perfectly encapsulates the reason for Trump's popularity.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,248
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3/2/2016 2:33:50 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 6:00:01 PM, Rosalie wrote:
In the study, 72 students were asked to rate their own ability and the ability of their peers after the first day of their course.

Of those, 32 students (about 45%) were under confident in their ability as compared to their final mark, 29 students (40%) were overconfident and 11 (15%) were accurate in their assessments of their own ability.

There was a positive correlation between the grades students predicted for themselves and the grades others predicted for them.

In other words, students who predicted higher grades for themselves were predicted to have higher grades by others, irrespective of their actual final score.

The same applied to those who were under confident.

The task was repeated after six weeks of the course when the students knew each other better and the findings remained the same. Those who were overconfident were over-rated by others.

Study author Dr Vivek Nityananda, research associate at Newcastle University's Institute of Neuroscience, said: 'These findings suggest that people don't always reward the most accomplished individual but rather the most self-deceived.

'We think this supports an evolutionary theory of self-deception.

Not saying that the explanation they propose is incorrect, but there might be another explanation as well. Namely, that both the overconfident person and his classmates over predict his grade for the same reasons. Maybe a lot of people assumed that being active in classroom discussion equated to success in the class, when in fact studying was required to do well. In that scenario, everyone was fooled by the same external factor, and no one is fooling anyone else.

Something in the article caught my attention, but it's problem nothing. The article said that there was a positive correlation between the grades students predicted for themselves and the grades predicted for them by their classmates. The next sentence tried to clarify what that meant, saying that students who predicted high grades for themselves were predicted to do well by their classmates irrespective of their actual grade. That last part is not necessarily implied by the correlation, so I'm not sure why they come out saying "in other words". For instance, if there was a positive correlation between how well students did and how well they thought they did, then the positive correlation mentioned in the article could be explained simply by the fact that the good students were aware of their ability as were their peers.
Maikuru
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3/2/2016 3:43:30 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:45:31 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/1/2016 6:36:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Dunning-Kruger effect. Not only does ignorance lead to illusory confidence, but intellectual humility is often necessary for the growth of knowledge. The day that I say 'I know enough about topic x' is the day that I stop learning about topic x and start being more concerned about defending a perceived expert status.

Well said. A bit of confidence is a good thing though, not too much, but a fair amount has positive effects

Yes, self-confidence is important for our overall psychological and emotional well-being. This is distinct from narcissism, which clouds judgement and negatively impacts relationships. This, too, is distinct from narcissistic personality disorder, which is obsessive and unhealthy.

Here's a nice, short video on the differentiation.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
YYW
Posts: 36,322
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3/2/2016 2:42:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
One of the very curious things that the left today does now is try to use psychology/psychiatry to discredit people who they don't like. We've witnessed this phenomenon on DDO to some considerable extent among toxic members, and it's even been seen among some "high ups" in the academic community in response to Donald Trump's rise. This is problematic, and any competent analysis (or, really, even a cursory glance should suffice) of the available scientific literature does in fact reveal the weakness of arguments that "very confident" people are nothing more than charlatans.

The reality is that there is no causal connection that suggests that if you are overly confident, somewhat confident, moderately confident, or exceptionally confident, then you are really just deceiving people into them thinking that you're smarter than you are. It just doesn't exist. The problem is even more substantial, in that lay people (read: non-professionals) then take that--weak--line of reasoning and assume that it's a universal constant, such that anyone who displays outward signs of confidence is just lying to them about how smart they are. This kind of stuff doesn't even rise to the level of idiocy, as so much in psychology and social science these days does.

Can anyone quantifiably distinguish high self confidence and narcissism? No. It's not an objective judgment, but a subjective one, often that turns--as it too often does--on the evaluator's conscious or subconscious and therefore subjective disapproval of the specific content of what a speaker is saying. Obama, for example, is one of the most confident politicians ever to serve in the office, but no one calls him a narcissist other than "mental health professionals" and pundits who exist on the right. Similarly, the only people who use similar language to describe Trump are members of the left.

People have said the same thing about Milo Yiannoupolis, and pretty much every outspoken conservative or libertarian provocateur who disapproves of the sort of quasi-theological narratives that postmodern liberals in the media and the culture promulgate and expect us to follow. But none say the same things about Bill Maher, who, by any reasonable standard, is the left's version of Yiannoupolis. No one calls Resa Aslan a sociopathic liar (even though he is), but members of the left are happy to descend on someone like Alan Dershowitz with everything from allegations that he is a racist, bigoted whatever who sexually assaults women on the reg.

And this is why I have no respect for the postmodern left; I can't. Their method is the definition of intellectual dishonesty; it's the gold standard of ad hom attacks. The method is this: attack and discredit the speaker to the extent that s/he becomes a political pariah and no one can associate with them in "respectable" circles. This happens every single day. This is why there are almost no conservative college professors. This is why there are almost no (openly) libertarian college professors.

The left creates a toxic environment that is systematically designed to make disagreement with their orthodoxy so socially costly that no one even speaks up. It's an insidious form of silencing, and it's identical to what Catholics used to do to keep protestantism from taking hold.
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Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 3:21:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 2:42:00 PM, YYW wrote:

I would honestly hold that deception requires intent, and in most cases narcissists and overly confident people aren't decieving, they legitimately believe their narcissism or over confidence is truth
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Hoppi
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3/2/2016 3:33:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Grades aren't perfect measures of ability. So students who were strong in the subject and recognized as strong by their peers did not necessarily get good marks. Maybe some of the weaker students cheated and ended up with better marks than they deserved.

The way the study twists this ordinary phenomenon into a rant about overconfidence is ridiculous! It should have been picked up by peer review.
EndarkenedRationalist
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3/2/2016 5:05:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 3:21:10 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:42:00 PM, YYW wrote:

I would honestly hold that deception requires intent, and in most cases narcissists and overly confident people aren't decieving, they legitimately believe their narcissism or over confidence is truth

They deceive themselves, then.
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:08:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:05:30 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/2/2016 3:21:10 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:42:00 PM, YYW wrote:

I would honestly hold that deception requires intent, and in most cases narcissists and overly confident people aren't decieving, they legitimately believe their narcissism or over confidence is truth

They deceive themselves, then.

Intentionally though? Because again, these types of people truly believe their narcissistic beliefs are true and valid. Should we villify these people, then? Or should we try to help them see the err of their thinking?

Even then, should we villify them if they refuse to see the err? Or pity?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
EndarkenedRationalist
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3/2/2016 5:10:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:08:24 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:05:30 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/2/2016 3:21:10 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:42:00 PM, YYW wrote:

I would honestly hold that deception requires intent, and in most cases narcissists and overly confident people aren't decieving, they legitimately believe their narcissism or over confidence is truth

They deceive themselves, then.

Intentionally though? Because again, these types of people truly believe their narcissistic beliefs are true and valid. Should we villify these people, then? Or should we try to help them see the err of their thinking?

Well, if they're truly narcissistic (as opposed to though not necessarily excluding over-confident), they'll never see the error of their thinking.

Even then, should we villify them if they refuse to see the err? Or pity?

Hope they never get a position of authority, I suppose.
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:11:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Or perhaps something else? It's not a strictly either/or choice
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:12:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:10:49 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

Hope they never get a position of authority, I suppose.

Yet, sadly, human behavior has been shown to respond positively to over-confidence and narcissism to where we would seek to put these kinds of people into positions of authority and power. And there, is the rub
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:13:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Because if we villify, we only make their position.stronger, because to themselves, and their supporters, vilification or attacking makes those doing so the bad guys. It entrenches them against, which just begs the question, how do we prevent that entrenchment?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/2/2016 5:15:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:12:20 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:10:49 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

Hope they never get a position of authority, I suppose.

Yet, sadly, human behavior has been shown to respond positively to over-confidence and narcissism to where we would seek to put these kinds of people into positions of authority and power. And there, is the rub

People like confidence but not arrogance. I think there is a line there.
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:15:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:10:49 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

Well, if they're truly narcissistic (as opposed to though not necessarily excluding over-confident), they'll never see the error of their thinking.

Not necessarily true, but mostly you are correct. Because to fix an issue, requires acceptance that there is an issue. And narcissists wouldn't acknowledge the existence of that issue.

Even then, should we villify them if they refuse to see the err? Or pity?

Hope they never get a position of authority, I suppose.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:16:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:15:06 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:12:20 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:10:49 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

Hope they never get a position of authority, I suppose.

Yet, sadly, human behavior has been shown to respond positively to over-confidence and narcissism to where we would seek to put these kinds of people into positions of authority and power. And there, is the rub

People like confidence but not arrogance. I think there is a line there.

There is, but many people, for lack of a better word, are unable to distinguish between the two and the fine line between.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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3/2/2016 5:22:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Heck, I would hold we all have that fallibility. Whether or not we distinguish between the two is usually determined by how much we agree with the person, how much we like them, etc.

We're more likely to put up with narcissism or not even realize it is if we like, and agree with much of what the person says and does
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
YYW
Posts: 36,322
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3/2/2016 5:30:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:22:12 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Heck, I would hold we all have that fallibility. Whether or not we distinguish between the two is usually determined by how much we agree with the person, how much we like them, etc.

We're more likely to put up with narcissism or not even realize it is if we like, and agree with much of what the person says and does

By the standard definition of narcissism, yes, we're all narcissists; the issue then becomes, to what extent are we all afflicted by narcissism, and, as such, the only people--in the modern left's view--qualified to make that judgment is the professional shrinks (or their precocious and very much indoctrinated graduate students).

Then, you look at "who" they call narcissists in the public sphere, and what purpose their decrying narcissism serves. That's the critical point... and it's HOW that particular weapon is used that shows you WHY it exists (emphasis only for the purpose of articulating the point with added clarity).

And who do they call narcissists? People like Donald Trump, of course. Or me. Or anyone else who rebukes their postmodern liberal orthodoxy.
Tsar of DDO
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:35:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:30:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:22:12 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Heck, I would hold we all have that fallibility. Whether or not we distinguish between the two is usually determined by how much we agree with the person, how much we like them, etc.

We're more likely to put up with narcissism or not even realize it is if we like, and agree with much of what the person says and does

By the standard definition of narcissism, yes, we're all narcissists;

By fallibility i was more referring to the fallibility of being inable at all times to distinguish between confidence and arrogance. But you are still correct, we're all narcissists to some degree
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
YYW
Posts: 36,322
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3/2/2016 5:40:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:35:45 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:30:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:22:12 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Heck, I would hold we all have that fallibility. Whether or not we distinguish between the two is usually determined by how much we agree with the person, how much we like them, etc.

We're more likely to put up with narcissism or not even realize it is if we like, and agree with much of what the person says and does

By the standard definition of narcissism, yes, we're all narcissists;

By fallibility i was more referring to the fallibility of being inable at all times to distinguish between confidence and arrogance. But you are still correct, we're all narcissists to some degree

Well of course no one can make anything that even resembles an objective determination between confidence and arrogance or narcissism. It's always a qualitative and subjective analysis that begins with whether we like people or whether we don't; because the same behaviors that are categorized as reflecting the former are identical to those that reflect the latter. The sole distinction is what we subjectively think about a person we're trying to come up with adjectives to describe.

And that activity is NOT science; and to the extent that it pretends to be science, it's total bullh!t.
Tsar of DDO
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:47:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:40:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:35:45 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:30:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:22:12 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Heck, I would hold we all have that fallibility. Whether or not we distinguish between the two is usually determined by how much we agree with the person, how much we like them, etc.

We're more likely to put up with narcissism or not even realize it is if we like, and agree with much of what the person says and does

By the standard definition of narcissism, yes, we're all narcissists;

By fallibility i was more referring to the fallibility of being inable at all times to distinguish between confidence and arrogance. But you are still correct, we're all narcissists to some degree

Well of course no one can make anything that even resembles an objective determination between confidence and arrogance or narcissism. It's always a qualitative and subjective analysis that begins with whether we like people or whether we don't; because the same behaviors that are categorized as reflecting the former are identical to those that reflect the latter. The sole distinction is what we subjectively think about a person we're trying to come up with adjectives to describe.

And that activity is NOT science; and to the extent that it pretends to be science, it's total bullh!t.

Agreed, with pretty much everything, but especially the underlined. EMPHASIS
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
YYW
Posts: 36,322
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3/2/2016 5:49:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:47:50 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:40:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:35:45 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:30:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/2/2016 5:22:12 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Heck, I would hold we all have that fallibility. Whether or not we distinguish between the two is usually determined by how much we agree with the person, how much we like them, etc.

We're more likely to put up with narcissism or not even realize it is if we like, and agree with much of what the person says and does

By the standard definition of narcissism, yes, we're all narcissists;

By fallibility i was more referring to the fallibility of being inable at all times to distinguish between confidence and arrogance. But you are still correct, we're all narcissists to some degree

Well of course no one can make anything that even resembles an objective determination between confidence and arrogance or narcissism. It's always a qualitative and subjective analysis that begins with whether we like people or whether we don't; because the same behaviors that are categorized as reflecting the former are identical to those that reflect the latter. The sole distinction is what we subjectively think about a person we're trying to come up with adjectives to describe.

And that activity is NOT science; and to the extent that it pretends to be science, it's total bullh!t.

Agreed, with pretty much everything, but especially the underlined. EMPHASIS

Cheers. I'm very happy to see an increase in awareness for how this kind of bullsh!t works. People need to know it. Especially college students, and high school students who will be entering the environment that is American higher education which has more or less (and with very few exceptions) become hostile to free speech in all respects to the extent that it diverges from postmodern liberal orthodoxy.
Tsar of DDO
Buddamoose
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3/2/2016 5:52:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Well I'm a prime example of what you just laid out. My best friend is extremely arrogant. Like, exactly what Rosalie said, "to where they disregard what other people are saying because they are always right."

Its was frustrating at first, but admittedly he's improved on not being so arrogant, and I wouldn't have ever defined him as a narcissist. Though many people on here would absolutely define him as one. Why would I not? Cause he's my best friend and I'm loathe to hold such a definition of him.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,449
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3/2/2016 5:54:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 5:49:18 PM, YYW wrote:

Cheers. I'm very happy to see an increase in awareness for how this kind of bullsh!t works. People need to know it.

I would agree, but it's really the kind of awareness that comes with experience lol. Let's not forget, we're pretty much the same age abroham lincoln
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion