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do rich people deserve sympathy

lovelife
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11/9/2010 7:06:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:01:18 PM, Loserboi wrote:
When you see something bad happen to rich people do you think they deserve any sympathy? I honestly do not think so

Thats a bit harsh.
For me it depends on the situation.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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11/9/2010 7:08:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:06:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:01:18 PM, Loserboi wrote:
When you see something bad happen to rich people do you think they deserve any sympathy? I honestly do not think so

Thats a bit harsh.
For me it depends on the situation.

Yeah. If a poor person loses $100 bucks I will feel sorry for them. But if a rich guy lost it, the only thing that would matter is where the $100 is so I could find it myself. 8)
kfc
lovelife
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11/9/2010 7:34:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:08:19 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:06:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:01:18 PM, Loserboi wrote:
When you see something bad happen to rich people do you think they deserve any sympathy? I honestly do not think so

Thats a bit harsh.
For me it depends on the situation.

Yeah. If a poor person loses $100 bucks I will feel sorry for them. But if a rich guy lost it, the only thing that would matter is where the $100 is so I could find it myself. 8)

Lol, well its the same with poor people, it depends on WHY the bad things happen. More often than not, when rich people have problems, its their own fault.
If a poor person gets a flat tire, but can't afford a new one, thats something worth feeling sorry for, but if a rich person gets a flat, but didn't bother to pick up a spare, its a bit harder to feel sorry.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
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11/9/2010 7:37:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Rich people deserve sympathy. Don't look at what they have. If a rich person feels genuinely sad because a pet died, and that pet meant as much to them as a child, that sorrow is no more or no less than if a poor person's son died.

Happiness and sorrow have nothing to do with how much STUFF you have. It's a chemical reaction in the brain. Everyone in pain deserves sympathy.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/9/2010 7:39:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:37:51 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Rich people deserve sympathy. Don't look at what they have. If a rich person feels genuinely sad because a pet died, and that pet meant as much to them as a child, that sorrow is no more or no less than if a poor person's son died.

Happiness and sorrow have nothing to do with how much STUFF you have. It's a chemical reaction in the brain. Everyone in pain deserves sympathy.

Hitler?
belle
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11/9/2010 7:40:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:39:41 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:37:51 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Rich people deserve sympathy. Don't look at what they have. If a rich person feels genuinely sad because a pet died, and that pet meant as much to them as a child, that sorrow is no more or no less than if a poor person's son died.

Happiness and sorrow have nothing to do with how much STUFF you have. It's a chemical reaction in the brain. Everyone in pain deserves sympathy.

Hitler?

you beat me to it....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
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11/9/2010 7:44:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:37:51 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Rich people deserve sympathy. Don't look at what they have. If a rich person feels genuinely sad because a pet died, and that pet meant as much to them as a child, that sorrow is no more or no less than if a poor person's son died.

Happiness and sorrow have nothing to do with how much STUFF you have. It's a chemical reaction in the brain. Everyone in pain deserves sympathy.

I know that wasn't directed at me, but that is a good point on when you should feel sorry for rich people.
I also feel sorry for them because most of the time, they don't know how to actually live, they just focus on how they look, but don't take the time to know about the truly better parts of life (gawd I sound sooo cheesy now its pissing even me off, lol)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
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11/9/2010 7:48:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:39:41 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Hitler?

I can understand why you would think this is a suitable response. I even considered adding "even Hitler" to the end of that post. I think that there's not enough thinking involved in your "rebuttal", it's mostly "feeling". It's nearly common sense to think of Hitler as someone who doesn't deserve sympathy.

Why do you think that Hitler is an example of a person who doesn't deserve sympathy?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/9/2010 7:59:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:48:11 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:39:41 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Hitler?

I can understand why you would think this is a suitable response. I even considered adding "even Hitler" to the end of that post. I think that there's not enough thinking involved in your "rebuttal", it's mostly "feeling". It's nearly common sense to think of Hitler as someone who doesn't deserve sympathy.

Why do you think that Hitler is an example of a person who doesn't deserve sympathy?

from wiki:
Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings


theres no understanding the feelings of a psychopath.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/9/2010 8:02:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:48:11 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Why do you think that Hitler is an example of a person who doesn't deserve sympathy?

Because he's an evil b@stard who deserves whatever sh*t comes his way?
Kleptin
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11/9/2010 8:06:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:59:11 PM, belle wrote:
theres no understanding the feelings of a psychopath.

I don't believe there is validity in your assumption that psychopaths don't deserve sympathy. I think that your position is emotionally charged and has no logical basis as of yet.

What is a psychopath? What does being a psychopath have to do with feelings? Was Hitler a true psychopath, or do we just emotionally and illogically paint him that way?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
belle
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11/9/2010 8:15:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:06:56 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:59:11 PM, belle wrote:
theres no understanding the feelings of a psychopath.

I don't believe there is validity in your assumption that psychopaths don't deserve sympathy. I think that your position is emotionally charged and has no logical basis as of yet.

...

What is a psychopath? What does being a psychopath have to do with feelings? Was Hitler a true psychopath, or do we just emotionally and illogically paint him that way?

throw out the word psychopath then. its not important really. i was just using it as a shortcut for those of us who don't completely ignore background knowledge when we attempt to do philosophy :P

if someone attempts to exterminate an entire race of people then i cannot understand their emotions and/or experience. (A-> ~B)

sympathy requires understanding of someone else's emotions and/or experience (C->B which is equivalent to ~B-> ~C)

therefore there can be no sympathy for someone who attempts to exterminate an entire race of people. (A->~C by hypothetical syllogism)

in syllogism form for easy digestion :D
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/9/2010 8:19:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'd say it depends on the situation. If it's money related I would say poor people certainly deserve more sympathy since losing money would obviously be harder on them. For just general things such as deaths in the family, etc. I'd say they deserve about the same. rich people are people too!
lovelife
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11/9/2010 8:24:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:19:19 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I'd say it depends on the situation. If it's money related I would say poor people certainly deserve more sympathy since losing money would obviously be harder on them. For just general things such as deaths in the family, etc. I'd say they deserve about the same. rich people are people too!
No they aren't they have no soul, are close friends with the devil, and also are witches, they need burnt at the stake.

You assume too much, INH
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
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11/9/2010 8:26:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:15:42 PM, belle wrote:
if someone attempts to exterminate an entire race of people then i cannot understand their emotions and/or experience. (A-> ~B)

Invalid due to your own personalization of the logical statement.

sympathy requires understanding of someone else's emotions and/or experience (C->B which is equivalent to ~B-> ~C)

See above.

therefore there can be no sympathy for someone who attempts to exterminate an entire race of people. (A->~C by hypothetical syllogism)

No, your conclusion is faulty. The proper conclusion following from your syllogism is that you are unable to feel sympathy for Hitler.

Your syllogism fails to address why Hitler doesn't deserve sympathy in general.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/9/2010 8:26:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:15:42 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/9/2010 8:06:56 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/9/2010 7:59:11 PM, belle wrote:
theres no understanding the feelings of a psychopath.

I don't believe there is validity in your assumption that psychopaths don't deserve sympathy. I think that your position is emotionally charged and has no logical basis as of yet.

...

What is a psychopath? What does being a psychopath have to do with feelings? Was Hitler a true psychopath, or do we just emotionally and illogically paint him that way?

throw out the word psychopath then. its not important really. i was just using it as a shortcut for those of us who don't completely ignore background knowledge when we attempt to do philosophy :P

if someone attempts to exterminate an entire race of people then i cannot understand their emotions and/or experience. (A-> ~B)

sympathy requires understanding of someone else's emotions and/or experience (C->B which is equivalent to ~B-> ~C)

therefore there can be no sympathy for someone who attempts to exterminate an entire race of people. (A->~C by hypothetical syllogism)

in syllogism form for easy digestion :D

Well, you can't sympathize with him but I have met a good number of people that did. And some that, even now, still sympathize with his motives and actions. Personally, I see his actions as illogical so I wouldn't be able to sympathize with him (assuming I would want to).
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
lovelife
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11/9/2010 8:26:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I actually feel really sorry for pyschos, and it might make me look bad, but I do understand them emotionally, and such. I read a book from the POV of a pyschopath, and I cried because it wasn't fair for him :( he even killed kittens
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/9/2010 8:36:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:26:15 PM, lovelife wrote:
I actually feel really sorry for pyschos, and it might make me look bad, but I do understand them emotionally, and such. I read a book from the POV of a pyschopath, and I cried because it wasn't fair for him :( he even killed kittens

'Psychopath' is overused and misunderstood. I'd say that 9 out of 10 times the term is used, there is no understanding of what being a psychopath entails. I've had personal experiences with a couple so I can understand where you're coming from lovelife.

What some forget is, while being labeled a psychopath, you lose a lot of your humanity when being addressed by other humans, regardless of you being a mass murdering fvckhead like Hitler or just victim to crappy genes. I remember that from visits with my mum at the hospital.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/9/2010 8:40:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:26:04 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Your syllogism fails to address why Hitler doesn't deserve sympathy in general.

i don't think its invalid to use induction in this case-

people do not tend to understand actions they do not condone. virtually no one condones hitler's actions. therefore virtually no one sympathizes with hitler.

considering those who DO condone hitler's actions- how many of their beliefs are based on false factual information (ie that jews are inferior, etc)? can their opinions not be likewise dismissed as false, since their basis is clearly and easily falsified?

granted morality is extreme difficult to justify, but an insistence on complete neutrality in regard to all actions leads manifestly to human suffering, including possibly yours. even if there is no metaphysical basis for ethics there is a clearly rational and self-interested basis for it.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
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11/9/2010 8:42:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:36:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 11/9/2010 8:26:15 PM, lovelife wrote:
I actually feel really sorry for pyschos, and it might make me look bad, but I do understand them emotionally, and such. I read a book from the POV of a pyschopath, and I cried because it wasn't fair for him :( he even killed kittens

'Psychopath' is overused and misunderstood. I'd say that 9 out of 10 times the term is used, there is no understanding of what being a psychopath entails. I've had personal experiences with a couple so I can understand where you're coming from lovelife.

I know. Plus mom says that Light is textbook definition of pyschopath, but I dare anyone to watch or read the whole series and NOT think about if he is the good guy.

What some forget is, while being labeled a psychopath, you lose a lot of your humanity when being addressed by other humans, regardless of you being a mass murdering fvckhead like Hitler or just victim to crappy genes. I remember that from visits with my mum at the hospital.

Yeah I think thats the biggest deal.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
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11/9/2010 8:50:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:40:18 PM, belle wrote:
i don't think its invalid to use induction in this case-

It isn't. The problem with your syllogism wasn't that it was inductive. The problem was that it was inapplicable because you were only talking about *your* ability to sympathize.

people do not tend to understand actions they do not condone. virtually no one condones hitler's actions. therefore virtually no one sympathizes with hitler.

Now THIS is a completely different argument and is incorrect in a completely different way. Whether or not people sympathize with Hitler has nothing to do with whether or not Hitler deserves sympathy.

considering those who DO condone hitler's actions- how many of their beliefs are based on false factual information (ie that jews are inferior, etc)? can their opinions not be likewise dismissed as false, since their basis is clearly and easily falsified?

Should people only deserve sympathy if their opinions are logically valid or morally just? I don't think we're even on topic anymore. I'm very confused.

granted morality is extreme difficult to justify, but an insistence on complete neutrality in regard to all actions leads manifestly to human suffering, including possibly yours. even if there is no metaphysical basis for ethics there is a clearly rational and self-interested basis for it.

A person's morality has nothing to do with whether or not a person deserves sympathy.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/9/2010 8:58:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 8:50:42 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/9/2010 8:40:18 PM, belle wrote:
Now THIS is a completely different argument and is incorrect in a completely different way. Whether or not people sympathize with Hitler has nothing to do with whether or not Hitler deserves sympathy.

that was meant to generalize my above syllogism from just me to everyone

Should people only deserve sympathy if their opinions are logically valid or morally just? I don't think we're even on topic anymore. I'm very confused.
...
A person's morality has nothing to do with whether or not a person deserves sympathy.

sure it does. if you honestly consider someone to be "evil" then any suffering they experience is deserved and you don't sympathize with deserved suffering... you are glad it occurs.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
tvellalott
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11/10/2010 12:38:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Rich people don't need any more fvcking symphonies the posh bastards!
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Loserboi
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11/10/2010 1:46:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I feel that anything bad that happens to a rich person cannot be on the same level as a regular person. He/She will always have the money to fall back on to make their lives better. They do not deserve sympathy because they can afford to feel better with any situation
Loserboi
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11/10/2010 2:13:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:37:51 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Rich people deserve sympathy. Don't look at what they have. If a rich person feels genuinely sad because a pet died, and that pet meant as much to them as a child, that sorrow is no more or no less than if a poor person's son died.

Happiness and sorrow have nothing to do with how much STUFF you have. It's a chemical reaction in the brain. Everyone in pain deserves sympathy.

I know this is all feelings based... but this is about sympathy i think it is supposed to be feelings based...

If a rich guy crashes his car, he has the means to simply just buy a new one willynilly. I will not feel sorry for a guy who lost something precious if it can simply be replaced.

If a regular guy lost his car in a crash, and cannot afford a new car and has no means to go to work anymore than i feel sympathy for him.

Rich people do not deserve sympathy because anything they lose in life can easily be replaced by either buying a new one, or buying a vacation for themselves to feel better. Even if a rich person lost all his money i feel no sympathy because he had a chance to experience a life very few people are allowed the opportunity to experience.
annhasle
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11/10/2010 2:30:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/10/2010 1:46:35 AM, Loserboi wrote:
I feel that anything bad that happens to a rich person cannot be on the same level as a regular person. He/She will always have the money to fall back on to make their lives better. They do not deserve sympathy because they can afford to feel better with any situation

Even if they lost a family member? A close friend? A pet? A co-worker? Life partner? Spouse?

Look, they may have money but money doesn't make them immune to all emotional distress. They have the monetary means to rebuild their lives if they lose a house or a car, but once they lose someone close to them, they are like any other person who is in pain. This type of generalization against rich people makes no sense.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/10/2010 3:31:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/9/2010 7:01:18 PM, Loserboi wrote:
When you see something bad happen to rich people do you think they deserve any sympathy? I honestly do not think so

Rich is a relative state. You and I are both rich in relative terms to the rest of the world. Being able to read, having access to the internet etc... you are in a narrow elite band.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.