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The Importance of Beauty

Hayd
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3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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3/15/2016 7:41:16 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

I think people want to be valued by other people. Being valued for your looks is better than not being valued at all, but it's not as good as being valued for something you actually do and have control over.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/15/2016 1:20:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

Some aspects of beauty are biologically rooted (body size to some degree, skin health, bone structure). But most of it is a construct reinforced by media exposure. The latter is pretty unhealthy, and the main point of it is to sell cosmetics, plastic surgery, and diet plans. You can't really do anything about the former; unless someone has a fetish, morbid obesity will never be attractive.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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3/15/2016 2:37:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 1:20:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

Some aspects of beauty are biologically rooted (body size to some degree, skin health, bone structure). But most of it is a construct reinforced by media exposure. The latter is pretty unhealthy, and the main point of it is to sell cosmetics, plastic surgery, and diet plans. You can't really do anything about the former; unless someone has a fetish, morbid obesity will never be attractive.

So do you think we should attempt to change our culture then to focus less on beauty?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/15/2016 3:52:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 2:37:35 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 3/15/2016 1:20:32 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

Some aspects of beauty are biologically rooted (body size to some degree, skin health, bone structure). But most of it is a construct reinforced by media exposure. The latter is pretty unhealthy, and the main point of it is to sell cosmetics, plastic surgery, and diet plans. You can't really do anything about the former; unless someone has a fetish, morbid obesity will never be attractive.

So do you think we should attempt to change our culture then to focus less on beauty?

Culture cannot be changed in that fashion; it transcends the individual. We should focus on it less as individuals.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,222
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3/15/2016 4:17:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

Beauty is in the eye of hegemony.
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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3/15/2016 4:45:56 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

I have always thought that attractiveness should be treated the same as gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. in that people should not be allowed to discriminate based on it. Unfortunately, although we know for a fact that it happens, it's just difficult to prove.
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Greyparrot
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3/15/2016 4:47:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:45:56 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 5:41:36 AM, Hayd wrote:
Is being good-looking one of the most important things in life? Should our society focus so much on being good-looking if it leads to so much deppression and suicide? Is it on balance even good to be good-looking?

I have always thought that attractiveness should be treated the same as gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. in that people should not be allowed to discriminate based on it. Unfortunately, although we know for a fact that it happens, it's just difficult to prove.

You can't force people to not see you as overly attractive.
lamerde
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3/15/2016 4:49:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:47:45 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

You can't force people to not see you as overly attractive.

Of course not, but we can correct for biases related to attractiveness the same way we correct for other biases. Affirmative action for ugly people, maybe? I'm talking hypothetical here and I know it sounds absurd, but the fact that we have free reign to discriminate against unattractive people is so wrong imo.
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Rosalie
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3/15/2016 4:54:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I've read a few studies and tests recently.

Job interviews (more attractive females, and males were hired)

Waitressing- females with a slim waist, blonde hair, and big breasts were tipped more, that's a fact.

It's really sad that people focus so much on the physical beauty aspect, then internal beauty. To me, if you're beautiful, but inside you're a cruel person, you're not beautiful to me.

At my job, all women are required to wear makeup, and have their hair nicley done. Thats not what bothers me though. Some women may feel confident without makeup, and would rather go bare face, but yet, society pressures is into looking fake.

I will go in depht more later..I'm just in class right now and wanted to post before I forgot.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,222
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3/15/2016 4:59:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:49:44 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 4:47:45 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

You can't force people to not see you as overly attractive.

Of course not, but we can correct for biases related to attractiveness the same way we correct for other biases. Affirmative action for ugly people, maybe? I'm talking hypothetical here and I know it sounds absurd, but the fact that we have free reign to discriminate against unattractive people is so wrong imo.

But there is no way to take back advantages you have for being naturally comely....
FourTrouble
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3/15/2016 5:11:27 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:45:56 PM, lamerde wrote:
I have always thought that attractiveness should be treated the same as gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. in that people should not be allowed to discriminate based on it. Unfortunately, although we know for a fact that it happens, it's just difficult to prove.

I agree completely. Discrimination on the basis of "attractiveness" is one of the last forms of discrimination that is completely sanctioned by society. It really disgusts me, to be honest.
lamerde
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3/15/2016 5:17:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:59:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

But there is no way to take back advantages you have for being naturally comely....

What do you mean? I'm proposing to correct for those advantages by giving unattractive people a level playing field. I'm not suggesting there is a way to "take" advantages back from attractive people.
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Hayd
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3/15/2016 5:17:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:54:34 PM, Rosalie wrote:
I've read a few studies and tests recently.

Job interviews (more attractive females, and males were hired)

Waitressing- females with a slim waist, blonde hair, and big breasts were tipped more, that's a fact.

It's really sad that people focus so much on the physical beauty aspect, then internal beauty. To me, if you're beautiful, but inside you're a cruel person, you're not beautiful to me.

Very true .

At my job, all women are required to wear makeup, and have their hair nicley done. Thats not what bothers me though. Some women may feel confident without makeup, and would rather go bare face, but yet, society pressures is into looking fake.

I don't even like makeup. Women look much better without it, its dumb that they have to do that.

I will go in depht more later..I'm just in class right now and wanted to post before I forgot.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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3/15/2016 5:42:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I'll also note that "unattractive" people are disproportionately poor people, and especially in terms of "obesity," people who can't afford or don't have the time to eat healthy and go to the gym. So, I'd second some sort of affirmative action on that front.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/15/2016 5:56:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:17:32 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 4:59:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

But there is no way to take back advantages you have for being naturally comely....

What do you mean? I'm proposing to correct for those advantages by giving unattractive people a level playing field. I'm not suggesting there is a way to "take" advantages back from attractive people.

Depends on how we define "attractive" and "unacttractive" people though. Is obesity the only way that someone can be physically unattractive? We know that isn't the case but how would we measure those other things that define attractiveness?
lamerde
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3/15/2016 6:19:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:56:44 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

Depends on how we define "attractive" and "unacttractive" people though. Is obesity the only way that someone can be physically unattractive? We know that isn't the case but how would we measure those other things that define attractiveness?

That's the thing, the only way to really "prove" you were discriminated against because of your attractiveness is to get people to agree that you're unattractive (e.g., by getting a group of third party raters)... which seems a bit like adding insult to injury, especially if nothing is done about it. It also depends on what the person discriminating finds attractive/unattractive, which again is difficult to prove unless you can show a pattern of exclusion of certain types of people.

I'm not sure how it would work in practice, but in theory, it's just not fair that people get advantages simply for being attractive and there's nothing anyone can really do about it.
Why I ignore YYW:
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Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
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3/15/2016 6:28:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:19:23 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 5:56:44 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

Depends on how we define "attractive" and "unacttractive" people though. Is obesity the only way that someone can be physically unattractive? We know that isn't the case but how would we measure those other things that define attractiveness?

That's the thing, the only way to really "prove" you were discriminated against because of your attractiveness is to get people to agree that you're unattractive (e.g., by getting a group of third party raters)... which seems a bit like adding insult to injury, especially if nothing is done about it. It also depends on what the person discriminating finds attractive/unattractive, which again is difficult to prove unless you can show a pattern of exclusion of certain types of people.

I'm not sure how it would work in practice, but in theory, it's just not fair that people get advantages simply for being attractive and there's nothing anyone can really do about it.

Do you feel guilty for being pretty?
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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3/15/2016 6:32:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:28:37 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Do you feel guilty for being pretty?

No. Am I supposed to?
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
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3/15/2016 6:33:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:32:08 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 6:28:37 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Do you feel guilty for being pretty?

No. Am I supposed to?

You can't is/ought feelings. Either you feel something, or you don't.
lamerde
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3/15/2016 6:36:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:33:30 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/15/2016 6:32:08 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 6:28:37 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Do you feel guilty for being pretty?

No. Am I supposed to?

You can't is/ought feelings. Either you feel something, or you don't.

Sure you can. A murderer might not feel guilty but s/he should (and when they don't, we typically see that as psychopathic behaviour). I'm just confused by your line of questioning.

Why would an attractive person feel guilty for being attractive?
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
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Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/16/2016 8:45:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:19:23 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/15/2016 5:56:44 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

Depends on how we define "attractive" and "unacttractive" people though. Is obesity the only way that someone can be physically unattractive? We know that isn't the case but how would we measure those other things that define attractiveness?

That's the thing, the only way to really "prove" you were discriminated against because of your attractiveness is to get people to agree that you're unattractive (e.g., by getting a group of third party raters)... which seems a bit like adding insult to injury, especially if nothing is done about it. It also depends on what the person discriminating finds attractive/unattractive, which again is difficult to prove unless you can show a pattern of exclusion of certain types of people.

I'm not sure how it would work in practice, but in theory, it's just not fair that people get advantages simply for being attractive and there's nothing anyone can really do about it.

Yeah, I agree. I was going to say something else but decided to best make a different topic: http://www.debate.org...

Curious about your opinion.