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lovelife
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11/21/2010 8:40:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Okay, it appears some people are trying to convert me to anarchist/communist, but the thing that bugs me the most is why would anyone do anything? If there is no class, and no law, then why should anyone become educated to be a doctor? Who would want to study the effects of whatever, who would want to -waste- their time, if they will never -gain- anything from it?
Why would ANYBODY do ANY work, if they gain nothing. If they have their needs met, and they don't get anymore anyway, why would they do any more work?

I really don't know how the system works, but once you take away laws, you rely just on what people are willing to do...and I don't have that much faith in the average american.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and thats why I want intellegent thoughts opinions, etc.
Plus this is the largest group of anarchists I have ever met, so someone in the group ought to know how it would actually work.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 8:42:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
anarchy and communism aren't the same thing. and i think a good portion of the anarchists around here are actually anarcho-capitalists so they can't help you there.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
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11/21/2010 8:45:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:42:25 PM, belle wrote:
anarchy and communism aren't the same thing. and i think a good portion of the anarchists around here are actually anarcho-capitalists so they can't help you there.

I'm sooo fvcking confused....I did agree with you but then the commu expert who isn't helping was all "What government are you fvcking talking about? What do you think stateless means?"
Leads me to believe its anarchy...
>.< Communism is a big headache and doesn't suite my political ideology atm....
But I'm so confused >.<
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:40:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
Okay, it appears some people are trying to convert me to anarchist/communist, but the thing that bugs me the most is why would anyone do anything? If there is no class, and no law, then why should anyone become educated to be a doctor? Who would want to study the effects of whatever, who would want to -waste- their time, if they will never -gain- anything from it?
Why would ANYBODY do ANY work, if they gain nothing. If they have their needs met, and they don't get anymore anyway, why would they do any more work?

I really don't know how the system works, but once you take away laws, you rely just on what people are willing to do...and I don't have that much faith in the average american.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and thats why I want intellegent thoughts opinions, etc.
Plus this is the largest group of anarchists I have ever met, so someone in the group ought to know how it would actually work.

For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
FREEDO
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11/21/2010 8:54:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:42:25 PM, belle wrote:
anarchy and communism aren't the same thing. and i think a good portion of the anarchists around here are actually anarcho-capitalists so they can't help you there.

There is very little consensus on the word "anarchy" so it would be wise to refrain from saying it "is" this or "is not" that, in most cases.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
belle
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11/21/2010 8:55:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:45:47 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:42:25 PM, belle wrote:
anarchy and communism aren't the same thing. and i think a good portion of the anarchists around here are actually anarcho-capitalists so they can't help you there.

I'm sooo fvcking confused....I did agree with you but then the commu expert who isn't helping was all "What government are you fvcking talking about? What do you think stateless means?"
Leads me to believe its anarchy...
>.< Communism is a big headache and doesn't suite my political ideology atm....
But I'm so confused >.<

wait were you talking to a marxist? cause that might explain it.. he said that the state would eventually wither away :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 8:56:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>

Wow, belle.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/21/2010 8:57:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>

Wow, a little bitter there belle? What anarchist pissed you off?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 8:57:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:56:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>

Wow, belle.

well you did basically just say.... i don't care if it works, i have a dream....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 8:58:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:57:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>

Wow, a little bitter there belle? What anarchist pissed you off?

lol its not about anarchists its specifically about what freedo said
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/21/2010 9:01:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>

Sigged.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:05:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:57:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:56:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:54:02 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

yeah the tyranny of reality is a b*tch, lets just make sh*t up and pretend its true. awesome! >.>

Wow, belle.

well you did basically just say.... i don't care if it works, i have a dream....

It is a sad thing to make a connection between Idealism and impossibility. The Ideal is simply the best-case scenario. Whether the best-case scenario is possible or not is a matter of debate. I'm inclined to ponder the idea of it's inevitability.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/21/2010 9:11:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:40:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
Okay, it appears some people are trying to convert me to anarchist/communist, but the thing that bugs me the most is why would anyone do anything? If there is no class, and no law, then why should anyone become educated to be a doctor? Who would want to study the effects of whatever, who would want to -waste- their time, if they will never -gain- anything from it?
Why would ANYBODY do ANY work, if they gain nothing. If they have their needs met, and they don't get anymore anyway, why would they do any more work?

I really don't know how the system works, but once you take away laws, you rely just on what people are willing to do...and I don't have that much faith in the average american.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and thats why I want intellegent thoughts opinions, etc.
Plus this is the largest group of anarchists I have ever met, so someone in the group ought to know how it would actually work.

For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

But basically.....how DO you make people do something? Why would anyone want to do something that takes more work and time etc.....?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 9:14:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:05:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is a sad thing to make a connection between Idealism and impossibility. The Ideal is simply the best-case scenario. Whether the best-case scenario is possible or not is a matter of debate. I'm inclined to ponder the idea of it's inevitability.

see what i mean? we haven't even established that its possible and you're already daydreaming about its inevitability. who cares whats real when you have pretty thoughts to keep you company?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:15:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:11:54 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:40:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
Okay, it appears some people are trying to convert me to anarchist/communist, but the thing that bugs me the most is why would anyone do anything? If there is no class, and no law, then why should anyone become educated to be a doctor? Who would want to study the effects of whatever, who would want to -waste- their time, if they will never -gain- anything from it?
Why would ANYBODY do ANY work, if they gain nothing. If they have their needs met, and they don't get anymore anyway, why would they do any more work?

I really don't know how the system works, but once you take away laws, you rely just on what people are willing to do...and I don't have that much faith in the average american.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and thats why I want intellegent thoughts opinions, etc.
Plus this is the largest group of anarchists I have ever met, so someone in the group ought to know how it would actually work.

For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

But basically.....how DO you make people do something? Why would anyone want to do something that takes more work and time etc.....?

They question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:17:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:14:30 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:05:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is a sad thing to make a connection between Idealism and impossibility. The Ideal is simply the best-case scenario. Whether the best-case scenario is possible or not is a matter of debate. I'm inclined to ponder the idea of it's inevitability.

see what i mean? we haven't even established that its possible and you're already daydreaming about its inevitability. who cares whats real when you have pretty thoughts to keep you company?

I never said it was inevitable.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:17:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:15:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:11:54 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:40:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
Okay, it appears some people are trying to convert me to anarchist/communist, but the thing that bugs me the most is why would anyone do anything? If there is no class, and no law, then why should anyone become educated to be a doctor? Who would want to study the effects of whatever, who would want to -waste- their time, if they will never -gain- anything from it?
Why would ANYBODY do ANY work, if they gain nothing. If they have their needs met, and they don't get anymore anyway, why would they do any more work?

I really don't know how the system works, but once you take away laws, you rely just on what people are willing to do...and I don't have that much faith in the average american.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and thats why I want intellegent thoughts opinions, etc.
Plus this is the largest group of anarchists I have ever met, so someone in the group ought to know how it would actually work.

For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

But basically.....how DO you make people do something? Why would anyone want to do something that takes more work and time etc.....?

They question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"

the*
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 9:19:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:17:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:14:30 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:05:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is a sad thing to make a connection between Idealism and impossibility. The Ideal is simply the best-case scenario. Whether the best-case scenario is possible or not is a matter of debate. I'm inclined to ponder the idea of it's inevitability.

see what i mean? we haven't even established that its possible and you're already daydreaming about its inevitability. who cares whats real when you have pretty thoughts to keep you company?

I never said it was inevitable.

read again. i never said you actually claim that it is inevitable, only that you daydream about it.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/21/2010 9:23:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:17:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:15:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:11:54 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 8:40:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
Okay, it appears some people are trying to convert me to anarchist/communist, but the thing that bugs me the most is why would anyone do anything? If there is no class, and no law, then why should anyone become educated to be a doctor? Who would want to study the effects of whatever, who would want to -waste- their time, if they will never -gain- anything from it?
Why would ANYBODY do ANY work, if they gain nothing. If they have their needs met, and they don't get anymore anyway, why would they do any more work?

I really don't know how the system works, but once you take away laws, you rely just on what people are willing to do...and I don't have that much faith in the average american.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and thats why I want intellegent thoughts opinions, etc.
Plus this is the largest group of anarchists I have ever met, so someone in the group ought to know how it would actually work.

For me it is openly an Idealism. It is to get past the well-in-grained human tendency of asking "How do I make people do things" in favor of transcending such tyranny in thought.

But basically.....how DO you make people do something? Why would anyone want to do something that takes more work and time etc.....?

The question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"

That makes no sense.
Why would someone do something that they don't want to do?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:24:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:19:41 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:17:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:14:30 PM, belle wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:05:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is a sad thing to make a connection between Idealism and impossibility. The Ideal is simply the best-case scenario. Whether the best-case scenario is possible or not is a matter of debate. I'm inclined to ponder the idea of it's inevitability.

see what i mean? we haven't even established that its possible and you're already daydreaming about its inevitability. who cares whats real when you have pretty thoughts to keep you company?

I never said it was inevitable.

read again. i never said you actually claim that it is inevitable, only that you daydream about it.

Then what problem do you have?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:26:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:23:29 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:17:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"

That makes no sense.
Why would someone do something that they don't want to do?

No. I don't know why you ask that. You misunderstand somehow.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/21/2010 9:28:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:26:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:23:29 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:17:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"

That makes no sense.
Why would someone do something that they don't want to do?

No. I don't know why you ask that. You misunderstand somehow.

Let me get this straight:

Me: How would communism work? Why would anybody spend time on something when they get the EXACT same thing for half as much work? why would anyone do anything? How do you make them do anything?

You: Why do you? (make them work twice as hard)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 9:29:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
the fact that you're spouting complete nonsense?

you openly claim that what you believe is "an idealism" and that we need to let go of the "tyranny of thought" that prevents us from realizing it actually makes perfect sense...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/21/2010 9:32:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:29:10 PM, belle wrote:
the fact that you're spouting complete nonsense?

you openly claim that what you believe is "an idealism" and that we need to let go of the "tyranny of thought" that prevents us from realizing it actually makes perfect sense...

Wait is that what he's talking about? We think to much? Sh!t if we just stop thinking the stress will go away, everyone knows that.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/21/2010 9:33:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:32:16 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:29:10 PM, belle wrote:
the fact that you're spouting complete nonsense?

you openly claim that what you believe is "an idealism" and that we need to let go of the "tyranny of thought" that prevents us from realizing it actually makes perfect sense...

Wait is that what he's talking about? We think to much? Sh!t if we just stop thinking the stress will go away, everyone knows that.

lets have a kegger?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:34:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:28:51 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:26:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:23:29 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:17:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"

That makes no sense.
Why would someone do something that they don't want to do?

No. I don't know why you ask that. You misunderstand somehow.

Let me get this straight:

Me: How would communism work? Why would anybody spend time on something when they get the EXACT same thing for half as much work? why would anyone do anything? How do you make them do anything?

You: Why do you? (make them work twice as hard)

1. Ask yourself if you would want to do things in this system.

2. Whether yes or no, ask yourself why.

3. ?????

4. Profit.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/21/2010 9:35:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:32:16 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:29:10 PM, belle wrote:
the fact that you're spouting complete nonsense?

you openly claim that what you believe is "an idealism" and that we need to let go of the "tyranny of thought" that prevents us from realizing it actually makes perfect sense...

Wait is that what he's talking about? We think to much? Sh!t if we just stop thinking the stress will go away, everyone knows that.

No...

belle and I are having a communication problem.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/21/2010 9:36:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/21/2010 9:34:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:28:51 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:26:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:23:29 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2010 9:17:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The question, lovelife, is "Why do/don't you?"

That makes no sense.
Why would someone do something that they don't want to do?

No. I don't know why you ask that. You misunderstand somehow.

Let me get this straight:

Me: How would communism work? Why would anybody spend time on something when they get the EXACT same thing for half as much work? why would anyone do anything? How do you make them do anything?

You: Why do you? (make them work twice as hard)

1. Ask yourself if you would want to do things in this system.
Other than shoot the people running it, and squirrel away stuff secretly? No


2. Whether yes or no, ask yourself why.
Because I don't get to keep the results unless I'm squirreling away stuff secretly or I get rid of the system. And I do stuff (productive stuff that is) for the purpose of having the results to enjoy.


3. ?????

4. Profit.
Welp, system discarded.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.