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Devensive Gun use and Crime Deterrent

Quadrunner
Posts: 1,069
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4/10/2016 3:12:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Does anyone have any good, solid, reliable evidence on this subject?

Most sights I find are one sided and don't factor in everything, and I get nothing from them as a result and have to make my own data. Since I'm not a statistical expert and I just usually just lazily cherry pick from different sights and put info together, my own info isn't credible either lol.

Neutral Tone websites would be much appreciated.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/11/2016 11:04:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Statistics are inherently misleading.

Correlation does not equal causation. In fact, there are far too many variables at play to make a truly meaningful statement.

The real problem here is that gun control is even discussed seriously in politics to begin with. The government doesn't want people to have guns. It's probably for the same reason they give farmers seeds that grow seedless crops.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/12/2016 3:33:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/10/2016 3:12:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Does anyone have any good, solid, reliable evidence on this subject?

Most sights I find are one sided and don't factor in everything, and I get nothing from them as a result and have to make my own data. Since I'm not a statistical expert and I just usually just lazily cherry pick from different sights and put info together, my own info isn't credible either lol.

Neutral Tone websites would be much appreciated.

For some variety of bench mark, it would take a LOT of stringing together of charts, and I don't think any one or two (or even five or more) will cover all the appropriate variables.

Median income of region.
Employment of region.
Percent of armed populace.
Population density.
General violent crime.
What constitutes legal self defense of the regions you are sampling.
What region of the country you are sampling.
Current gun control laws, and how close a territory lay that reflects the opposite of said control laws.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/12/2016 10:09:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I think it's absurd to think that it is possible to isolate enough variables in order to make an accurate scientific statement about what leads people to violence.

I also think it's absurd to think that statistics are accurate when they are based off of so many inaccurate measuring of things.

I suppose the amount of perceived utility derived from these methods of gathering information is sufficient for some people, but I still think it's sloppy "knowledge".
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,164
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4/13/2016 12:26:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/10/2016 3:12:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Does anyone have any good, solid, reliable evidence on this subject?

Most sights I find are one sided and don't factor in everything, and I get nothing from them as a result and have to make my own data. Since I'm not a statistical expert and I just usually just lazily cherry pick from different sights and put info together, my own info isn't credible either lol.

Neutral Tone websites would be much appreciated.

As far as I am concerned, the subject matter does not matter, situation is the same.
There are no "neutral" viewpoints presented. Everyone is beating a drum, with the tune they like.

In most cases the one presenting the information had a position, and sought out the statistics to support it. The reader has to decide if the information seems to be covering relevant issues. Then, they have to track down the source to see if the raw data has been properly (accurately) presented.

Subjects such as this cannot have a control group, so truly Scientific studies are, as far as I am concerned, not possible. There can be a logical presentation, centered on critical thinking. This should yield "science-like" results.

I disagree with your statement that your info is not credible.
If your source documents are accurate, your info is credible.
Your presentation of the information may not be credible. You can present 100 percent accurate information, but because you exclude other, equally accurate information, your presentation is biased, therefore not credible.

Those who favor gun control in the strictest sense - no guns for citizens -often show statistics to demonstrate that there are fewer deaths when guns are outlawed. Rapes, assaults, burglaries may have doubled, but there are fewer deaths.
Their information is credible, their presentation of the situation is not.

It sounds like you have done a lot of leg work. Present what you have, and be prepared for rebuttals.

Australia is a good example of guns legal one month, illegal the next. Not a true control group, but as close as you can get.
Both guns rights groups, and anti-gun groups have used it as an example of why their position is the most sensible.
I have read articles presented by both sides, just casual reading, and huge holes in the anti-aun arguments. Accurate, credible information, but invalid conclusions.
Both sides are biased, but when it is all sorted out, I believe the law abiding citizens are at greater risk of harm now, without guns.
Others will disagree.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/13/2016 4:54:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I don't believe statistics are that accurate, but I'll give you my personal life experience. It might not really be what you are looking for, but you might be interested anyway.

I was born and raised on the south side of Chicago. I would go to bed and hear gunshots fairly often. On the news everyday, someone is getting shot. It's ugly up there. Guns were practically illegal in Chicago when I lived there. The government over there is totally overrun by organized crime, and so is the police department. The place is insanely corrupt.

Now, I live in Texas, and I've lived from DFW down to San Antonio... Can't speak for Houston.. but guns are everywhere. People aren't shooting each other. It's a lot more civilized.

I love Texas.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,