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John's Kasich's Advise to rape victims

distraff
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4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?
https://www.yahoo.com...
someloser
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4/17/2016 2:27:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Good advice is apparently victim-blaming. Brilliant.

No, I'm serious. It is brilliant. These "anti-rape" activists likely don't want to render themselves obsolete, after all.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

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Maikuru
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4/17/2016 2:51:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I don't think his comments were inappropriate, and it didn't come off as victim-blaming to me. I would give my daughters the same advice.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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distraff
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4/17/2016 2:53:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 2:27:16 AM, someloser wrote:
Good advice is apparently victim-blaming. Brilliant.

No, I'm serious. It is brilliant. These "anti-rape" activists likely don't want to render themselves obsolete, after all.

He didn't actually blame the victims, he just accurately pointed out that avoiding parties with too much alcohol can be very dangerous and result in rape. He supports measures for victims to pursue justice so obviously he is blaming the rapist.
someloser
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4/17/2016 2:54:07 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 2:53:30 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/17/2016 2:27:16 AM, someloser wrote:
Good advice is apparently victim-blaming. Brilliant.

No, I'm serious. It is brilliant. These "anti-rape" activists likely don't want to render themselves obsolete, after all.

He didn't actually blame the victims, he just accurately pointed out that avoiding parties with too much alcohol can be very dangerous and result in rape. He supports measures for victims to pursue justice so obviously he is blaming the rapist.
Yeah, I agree with him (hence "good advice")
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Vox_Veritas
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4/17/2016 3:02:02 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Rape is unfair. But this is an unfair world. A rapist will not stop simply because he's told that what he's doing is unfair. So when idealism fails, realism becomes a necessity. Our leaders can and should continue to act to put an end to rape. But as long as it still exists women can either stay away from dangerous situations or risk getting raped.
The faux moral outrage at Kasich's comments shows the total moral bankruptcy of the media and the left.
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Maikuru
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4/17/2016 6:47:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I should clarify that I would give this advice to my daughters and my sons.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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1harderthanyouthink
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4/18/2016 4:04:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
So basically, he got called a victim-blamer for giving the "don't take your eyes off your drink" kind of advise?
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Skepsikyma
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4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five. The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
NothingSpecial99
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4/18/2016 9:09:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?
https://www.yahoo.com...

This seems more like cautionary advice rather than victim blaming. People should think twice and take into consideration as to what message people are trying to convey before jumping to conclusions.
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

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distraff
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4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.

Just because rape is lower in college than in a violent ghetto (obvious) doesn't mean it is a problem in colleges. Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.
Skepsikyma
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4/19/2016 4:06:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The sample size is ridiculously small for the type of conclusions drawn from it, restricted to two Universities, with low participation rates (non-response bias is huge in studies like this), included 'unwanted kissing' or 'fondling' under 'sexual battery', and has been further skewed by the media in ways that stretch its already tortured conclusion to the breaking point. It's trash. Especially when there are other studies with bigger sample studies and better methodology. The BJS, for example, found that average rape and sexual battery rates were 4.1% and 5.6%, respectively. So, why should we privilege the '1 in 5' study over one with over four times the sample size, better methodology, and over four times the amount of analysis, unless it's to advance a narrative unsupported by the facts? http://www.bjs.gov...

The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.

Just because rape is lower in college than in a violent ghetto (obvious) doesn't mean it is a problem in colleges.

It's not lower than a violent ghetto; read what I wrote. It's lower than the average rate. Which means that a girl on a college campus is less likely to be raped than the average person, not more. Which means that there is, by definition, no 'rape epidemic' on college campuses which requires any sort of special attention. Rather, this is a nexus between middle and upper class people wanting to feign oppression, and the rest of society wanting to buy into a narrative which puts 'their women' on a pedestal to be protected against violation, while ignoring minorities, the economically disadvantaged, and the incarcerated in a typically self-involved bourgeois spectacle of self-pity. In other words, business as usual.

Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.

Yes, but when we devote funding and public attention to rape prevention, we should focus it on areas where people are actually being raped at above-average rates, not focus almost entirely on low-rape areas while practically ignoring places where people are being raped at disproportionate rates. Novel idea, I know. We also don't live in an ideal world, and never will.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Runn92
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4/19/2016 4:43:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.

That statistic has been debunked fairly thoroughly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.

Just because rape is lower in college than in a violent ghetto (obvious) doesn't mean it is a problem in colleges. Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.

Obviously women are around 60% of college students (an overrepresentation relative to the general population) so obviously they don't feel that threatened on college campuses. They go at a higher rate than do men.

But, if you really want to solve the problem to the degree it exists, you should focus on the non white athletes and immigrants who commit so many of these. But, NOBODY wants to talk about that.
distraff
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4/19/2016 4:53:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:06:33 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The sample size is ridiculously small for the type of conclusions drawn from it,

1000 respondents is considered average not low.

restricted to two Universities,

While only two universities is not idea it does show that we still see a high rate in two independent universities in different parts of the country. This is cause for concern if we consider similar universities to have about the same rate. You can only argue that these two universities somehow have an especially high sexually assault rate compared to the average university. There is nothing about them that indicates this.

with low participation rates (non-response bias is huge in studies like this),

Yes, that is a source for error but at least we got these high rates from two different universities, there were 1000 responses, the survey is anonymous, and a gift card is given to respondents which encourages women who have not been assaulted and have less interest in the topic to reply. Not all surveys can be perfect but imperfect data only increases the margin of error not invalidates the survey. If sexual assault was almost non-existent in college we would not have gotten such a high rate in a survey of 1000.

included 'unwanted kissing' or 'fondling' under 'sexual battery', and has been further skewed by the media in ways that stretch its already tortured conclusion to the breaking point.

And the survey is about attempted or actual sexual assault not rape and the above activities fall under this. What would you think if someone had sexually battered your daughter, or did unwanted kissing and fondling to your daughter? You would probably be concerned about your daughter's safety.

Especially when there are other studies with bigger sample studies and better methodology. The BJS, for example, found that average rape and sexual battery rates were 4.1% and 5.6%, respectively. So, why should we privilege the '1 in 5' study over one with over four times the sample size, better methodology, and over four times the amount of analysis, unless it's to advance a narrative unsupported by the facts? http://www.bjs.gov...

This survey is better but is about rape not attempted sexual assault. It is not surprising that 20% of women have experienced attempted sexual assault and 5% were actually raped and sexually battered. By your own data, 5% are actually raped. I have about 20 female cousins. That means statistically one on average will be raped in college. That is too high.

It's not lower than a violent ghetto; read what I wrote. It's lower than the average rate. Which means that a girl on a college campus is less likely to be raped than the average person, not more.

So it isn't even just the ghetto with a rate higher than 5%, its the average population? 10%, 15%? How high is it in the ghetto? 25%? I don't show for sure but rape is a serious problem if 5% is considered low.

Which means that there is, by definition, no 'rape epidemic' on college campuses which requires any sort of special attention. Rather, this is a nexus between middle and upper class people wanting to feign oppression, and the rest of society wanting to buy into a narrative which puts 'their women' on a pedestal to be protected against violation,

That is like saying that since 20% were killed in Poland by the plague instead of 50% in Europe overall that were was no epidemic in Poland since it was lower than average. According to your stats rape is an epidemic everywhere and it is only less of an epidemic in college. Rape is a problem in college just like it is a problem everywhere else.

while ignoring minorities, the economically disadvantaged, and the incarcerated in a typically self-involved bourgeois spectacle of self-pity. In other words, business as usual.

Actually colleges pay great effort to provide aid to minorities and the poor. I have never heard the middle class ever referred to as bourgeois. Most college students have to work their way through school and graduate burdened by debt and still struggle to find a job. They don't have the easy life. People in the middle class are not spoiled and have to work as hard as anybody else.

Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.

Yes, but when we devote funding and public attention to rape prevention, we should focus it on areas where people are actually being raped at above-average rates, not focus almost entirely on low-rape areas while practically ignoring places where people are being raped at disproportionate rates. Novel idea, I know. We also don't live in an ideal world, and never will.

I think we should be providing rape prevention everywhere including poor neighborhoods and colleges.
distraff
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4/19/2016 4:57:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:43:30 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.


That statistic has been debunked fairly thoroughly.

Then debunk it. The survey is not perfect but no survey is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.

Just because rape is lower in college than in a violent ghetto (obvious) doesn't mean it is a problem in colleges. Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.


Obviously women are around 60% of college students (an overrepresentation relative to the general population) so obviously they don't feel that threatened on college campuses. They go at a higher rate than do men.

College is becoming almost essential to success. Most women are willing to take the risk. A lot of women already take measures to avoid rape and that is what they should be doing.

But, if you really want to solve the problem to the degree it exists, you should focus on the non white athletes and immigrants who commit so many of these. But, NOBODY wants to talk about that.

Actually all the Donald Trump supporters do. You literally have a red-headed buffoon yelling lies about immigrants all the time. How many of these exactly are caused by non-white athletes and immigrants?
Runn92
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4/19/2016 5:12:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:57:59 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:43:30 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.


That statistic has been debunked fairly thoroughly.

Then debunk it. The survey is not perfect but no survey is.

Just look at the definition of "sexual assault" in those surveys.


https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.

Just because rape is lower in college than in a violent ghetto (obvious) doesn't mean it is a problem in colleges. Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.


Obviously women are around 60% of college students (an overrepresentation relative to the general population) so obviously they don't feel that threatened on college campuses. They go at a higher rate than do men.

College is becoming almost essential to success. Most women are willing to take the risk. A lot of women already take measures to avoid rape and that is what they should be doing.

Take the risk? Lol. It's a BIG stretch to call a woman going to college "taking the risk". Life is a lot riskier for men in terms of violence than it is for women...


But, if you really want to solve the problem to the degree it exists, you should focus on the non white athletes and immigrants who commit so many of these. But, NOBODY wants to talk about that.

Actually all the Donald Trump supporters do. You literally have a red-headed buffoon yelling lies about immigrants all the time. How many of these exactly are caused by non-white athletes and immigrants?

If only they were lies.... But you go on believing white UVA fraternities and white Duke Lacrosse players are the ones hurting women when the reality is that guys like this and this are the actual ones hurting women at those schools:

http://www.dukechronicle.com...

http://wtvr.com...
distraff
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4/19/2016 7:04:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 5:12:08 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:57:59 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:43:30 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:11:40 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/18/2016 4:06:31 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:19:21 AM, distraff wrote:
Recently Republican presidential candidate addressed the problem of rape in college when asked about it. He said that more availability of rape kits, making it easier for victims to pursue justice, and better confidential reporting were solutions. He also said that women should avoid going to parties that have a lot of alcohol.

This last part got a lot of people including the National Democratic Committee mad because they accused him of indirectly blaming the victim's actions for the rape and putting the responsibility to doing something about rape on them.

I disagree with their horror, because rape is going to happen no matter what and drinking alcohol will make you more likely to be in situations where rape will happen. This sounds like practical advise for avoiding it. While I agree that the blame should 100% be on the rapist if a rape happens, sometimes rape victims make bad choices like drinking too much or going to ratty places that lead to them being raped.

The main solution to rape is better testing of rape and more confidential reporting just as Kasich said. What do you think?

He should have just said that there is no rape problem on college campuses, just a bunch of spoiled twats who so want to feel oppressed that they torture statistics into saying that they're being raped at a rate of one in five.

Any rape is a problem. 19% of women in college have experienced an attempted or actual sexual assault not rape. You have no evidence that most of these women claimed they were assaulted in a private survey to get attention when the individual results are confidential.


That statistic has been debunked fairly thoroughly.

Then debunk it. The survey is not perfect but no survey is.

Just look at the definition of "sexual assault" in those surveys.

Just grabbed this off of google:
"Sexual assault is any type of forced or coerced sexual contact or behavior that happens without consent. Sexual assault includes rape and attempted rape, child molestation, and sexual harassment or threats."

So what is your problem with their definition again?

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

The DoJ holds that college students are less likely to be raped then the average person, and that the biggest rape epidemics are in poor communities (and prisons). But no, we can't expect the ludicrously self-pitying bourgeois to actually care about a real problem that isn't centered around them.

Just because rape is lower in college than in a violent ghetto (obvious) doesn't mean it is a problem in colleges. Women in colleges should be able to feel safe and secure just like men in an ideal world.


Obviously women are around 60% of college students (an overrepresentation relative to the general population) so obviously they don't feel that threatened on college campuses. They go at a higher rate than do men.

College is becoming almost essential to success. Most women are willing to take the risk. A lot of women already take measures to avoid rape and that is what they should be doing.

Take the risk? Lol. It's a BIG stretch to call a woman going to college "taking the risk". Life is a lot riskier for men in terms of violence than it is for women...

A 1 in 5 chance is a risk. Even if the survey is exaggerated and it is 1 in 10 then it is a risk. Realistically rape is a small risk for college women especially if they take the right precautions. I believe that the rape rate should be lower and we should be doing more to prevent it.

But, if you really want to solve the problem to the degree it exists, you should focus on the non white athletes and immigrants who commit so many of these. But, NOBODY wants to talk about that.

Actually all the Donald Trump supporters do. You literally have a red-headed buffoon yelling lies about immigrants all the time. How many of these exactly are caused by non-white athletes and immigrants?


If only they were lies.... But you go on believing white UVA fraternities and white Duke Lacrosse players are the ones hurting women when the reality is that guys like this and this are the actual ones hurting women at those schools:

http://www.dukechronicle.com...


http://wtvr.com...

So what percent of all rapes are these incidents?
Skepsikyma
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4/19/2016 1:46:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:53:28 AM, distraff wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:06:33 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The sample size is ridiculously small for the type of conclusions drawn from it,

1000 respondents is considered average not low.

Well, you obviously don't know how sample sizes work. There is no across the board 'average' or 'low', acceptable sample sizes are determined by several factors, the most relevant being the body which the sample is supposed to represent.

restricted to two Universities,

While only two universities is not idea it does show that we still see a high rate in two independent universities in different parts of the country. This is cause for concern if we consider similar universities to have about the same rate. You can only argue that these two universities somehow have an especially high sexually assault rate compared to the average university. There is nothing about them that indicates this.

... that's not how sampling works at all. Every university is going to have a different rate of sexual assault. You sample from multiple universities so that the sample is guaranteed to be representative. It's like saying 'I'm going to make a poll on nationwide political belief,' but then only interview people from two towns. Well, then your poll isn't very representative of nationwide political beliefs.

with low participation rates (non-response bias is huge in studies like this),

Yes, that is a source for error but at least we got these high rates from two different universities, there were 1000 responses, the survey is anonymous, and a gift card is given to respondents which encourages women who have not been assaulted and have less interest in the topic to reply. Not all surveys can be perfect but imperfect data only increases the margin of error not invalidates the survey. If sexual assault was almost non-existent in college we would not have gotten such a high rate in a survey of 1000.

They also defined sexual battery ridiculously broadly, and the number which they got, suspiciously enough, only lines up with other surveys which make the same mistake. You send out 5,000 surveys, for example, and only 1,000 respond, those 1,000 who responded are more likely to have been sexually assaulted because there's more motivation for them to answer a survey which addresses something which personally impacted them. The 4,000 who didn't response were more likely to have not been assaulted as a corollary. So by treating those two populations as identical when determining rates, the number can be greatly inflated. And it's just moronic to say that people can take absurd liberties with their research and then that their research should be taken at face value even when it conflicts with better research. That's not how it works, hate to break it to you. Studies like this are loved by the news media, but actual researchers disdain sloppy work.

included 'unwanted kissing' or 'fondling' under 'sexual battery', and has been further skewed by the media in ways that stretch its already tortured conclusion to the breaking point.

And the survey is about attempted or actual sexual assault not rape and the above activities fall under this. What would you think if someone had sexually battered your daughter, or did unwanted kissing and fondling to your daughter? You would probably be concerned about your daughter's safety.

Lol, when logic fails, appeal to emotion. Classic. If my daughter said that some overeager boy kissed her when she didn't want him too, I'd tell her that people misreading signals is part of life, and that it's not sexual battery. In fact, other studies show that what the news media is so eager to classify as 'battery' are reported at low rates mostly because the 'victim' didn't see it as a big deal worthy of reporting. Under these definitions, someone bumping and grinding on you at a nightclub is sexual battery, which is absurd. People aren't mindreaders, and courtship is often clumsy.

Especially when there are other studies with bigger sample studies and better methodology. The BJS, for example, found that average rape and sexual battery rates were 4.1% and 5.6%, respectively. So, why should we privilege the '1 in 5' study over one with over four times the sample size, better methodology, and over four times the amount of analysis, unless it's to advance a narrative unsupported by the facts? http://www.bjs.gov...

This survey is better but is about rape not attempted sexual assault.

Define 'sexual assault' for me.

It is not surprising that 20% of women have experienced attempted sexual assault and 5% were actually raped and sexually battered.

It's also not demonstrated by any reliable data.

By your own data, 5% are actually raped. I have about 20 female cousins. That means statistically one on average will be raped in college. That is too high.

'Too high' is a relative statement. Compared to other rates, it's quite low. This is actually what I'm talking about; you don't care as much about much higher rates in other areas because you don't identify with the people being raped to the point where you can swap in 'my cousins' and get outraged over it. Men in prisons? Black women in the inner cities? Those aren't 'my women' or 'my men', so there's no visceral protective response.

It's not lower than a violent ghetto; read what I wrote. It's lower than the average rate. Which means that a girl on a college campus is less likely to be raped than the average person, not more.

So it isn't even just the ghetto with a rate higher than 5%, its the average population? 10%, 15%? How high is it in the ghetto? 25%? I don't show for sure but rape is a serious problem if 5% is considered low.

It's been declining across the board for years as well by any reliable metric, so I don't know why you're so worried about it now. Could it be a media-stoked panic?

Which means that there is, by definition, no 'rape epidemic' on college campuses which requires any sort of special attention. Rather, this is a nexus between middle and upper class people wanting to feign oppression, and the rest of society wanting to buy into a narrative which puts 'their women' on a pedestal to be protected against violation,

That is like saying that since 20% were killed in Poland by the plague instead of 50% in Europe overall that were was no epidemic in Poland since it was lower than average. According to your stats rape is an epidemic everywhere and it is only less of an epidemic in college. Rape is a problem in college just like it is a problem everywhere else.

You don't know what the word 'epidemic' means. By your logic, everything is an epidemic, and the word is meaningless.

while ignoring minorities, the economically disadvantaged, and the incarcerated in a typically self-involved bourgeois spectacle of self-pity. In other words, business as usual.

Actually colleges pay great effort to provide aid to minorities and the poor. I have never heard the middle class ever referred to as bourgeois.
... that's literally what the word means.

Most college students have to work their way through school and graduate burdened by debt and still struggle to find a job. They don't have the easy life. People in the middle class are not spoiled and have to work as hard as anybody else.
Not as hard as people in the lower class.

Yes, but when we devote funding and public attention to rape prevention, we should focus it on areas where people are actually being raped at above-average rates, not focus almost entirely on low-rape areas while practically ignoring places where people are being raped at disproportionate rates. Novel idea, I know. We also don't live in an ideal world, and never will.

I think we should be providing rape prevention everywhere including poor neighborhoods and c
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bhakun
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4/26/2016 2:18:05 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
What if...

Hear me out here.

Instead of making girls adhere to strict guidelines and rules...

We instead...

Teach men, that rape is bad? Sound good?
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
roun12
Posts: 177
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4/27/2016 11:17:20 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 2:18:05 AM, bhakun wrote:
What if...

Hear me out here.

Instead of making girls adhere to strict guidelines and rules...

We instead...

Teach men, that rape is bad? Sound good?

Rapists, along with most criminals, know what they're doing is bad. They just don't care!
"No, I disagree. 'R' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why they call it MURDER, not Muckduck." - Dwight

"Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." - George Carlin