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A Issue: Suicide

Rosalie
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4/18/2016 9:07:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Last semester, I realized how big of an issue suicide was.

For 1) My friends brother, whom was 12, committed suicide, due to bullying. It was a shock to everyone, because he seemed like a happy kid, and didn't ever talk about issues that were within.

2) The following semester, I noticed about 1,100 backpacks laying across our campus field. I walked over to one of the backpacks, and found out, that the backpack belonged to a suicide victim. On that backpack, was a picture of the victim, and a description of the. This is called the "Back Pack Project"

A study done by University of Tennessee, noted that "A recent study shows that over the last 30 years the suicide rate in young people has more than tripled. The most dramatic increase in the suicide rate has occurred in the 15 to 24 age bracket (up 312%), followed by the 20- to 24-year-old age group (up 163%)"both traditional college-age groups. The most sobering statistic is that suicide is second only to automobile accidents as the leading cause of death among 18- to 24-year-olds"

As we can see, suicides are more common in adolescence, and young adults, who are at this time, either beginning high school, or are in college. High-school, and College students have a lot of stress going on, and it's the prime stage for bullying. A lot of bullying will go on if someone finds out you're gay, or if you have depression, and then you get made fun of for being anti-social, or being depressed.

In 2015, 22% of CHILDREN admitted to being bullied. In 2011, 66% of children had admitted to being bullied. The effects of bullying are severe, which then can lead to suicide.... "Students who are both targets of bullying and engage in bullying behavior are at greater risk for both mental health and behavior problems than students who only bully or are only bullied." ( http://www.pacer.org...)

We can also see in the link above ^^ that bullying is most common with students who identify themselves as LGBTQ.

Those the percentage has dropped, suicide is a major issue. This should not be a taboo topic, but we definitely need to do something about it.

What should we do?

I know here, in my state, California, we are working on a pre-mental test. Which means, before a child enters a grade, a mental test is preformed on them, to ensure they are mentally healthy to move forward with their education. If the child shows signs of depression, or sever anxiety, these issues can be worked on, prior to them entering school.

We also need to make it easier for children, teens and adults to talk about their issues, at school for instance. It shouldn't be a drug-out process to go and talk to a well-trusted person, who can help.

What do you think about this issue, and how do you think we could fix it?

What do you think we should do about this issue?
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Peepette
Posts: 1,236
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4/18/2016 9:45:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:07:27 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Last semester, I realized how big of an issue suicide was.

For 1) My friends brother, whom was 12, committed suicide, due to bullying. It was a shock to everyone, because he seemed like a happy kid, and didn't ever talk about issues that were within.

2) The following semester, I noticed about 1,100 backpacks laying across our campus field. I walked over to one of the backpacks, and found out, that the backpack belonged to a suicide victim. On that backpack, was a picture of the victim, and a description of the. This is called the "Back Pack Project"

A study done by University of Tennessee, noted that "A recent study shows that over the last 30 years the suicide rate in young people has more than tripled. The most dramatic increase in the suicide rate has occurred in the 15 to 24 age bracket (up 312%), followed by the 20- to 24-year-old age group (up 163%)"both traditional college-age groups. The most sobering statistic is that suicide is second only to automobile accidents as the leading cause of death among 18- to 24-year-olds"

As we can see, suicides are more common in adolescence, and young adults, who are at this time, either beginning high school, or are in college. High-school, and College students have a lot of stress going on, and it's the prime stage for bullying. A lot of bullying will go on if someone finds out you're gay, or if you have depression, and then you get made fun of for being anti-social, or being depressed.

In 2015, 22% of CHILDREN admitted to being bullied. In 2011, 66% of children had admitted to being bullied. The effects of bullying are severe, which then can lead to suicide.... "Students who are both targets of bullying and engage in bullying behavior are at greater risk for both mental health and behavior problems than students who only bully or are only bullied." ( http://www.pacer.org...)

We can also see in the link above ^^ that bullying is most common with students who identify themselves as LGBTQ.

Those the percentage has dropped, suicide is a major issue. This should not be a taboo topic, but we definitely need to do something about it.

What should we do?

I know here, in my state, California, we are working on a pre-mental test. Which means, before a child enters a grade, a mental test is preformed on them, to ensure they are mentally healthy to move forward with their education. If the child shows signs of depression, or sever anxiety, these issues can be worked on, prior to them entering school.

We also need to make it easier for children, teens and adults to talk about their issues, at school for instance. It shouldn't be a drug-out process to go and talk to a well-trusted person, who can help.

What do you think about this issue, and how do you think we could fix it?

What do you think we should do about this issue?

You have some very good points here. Bullying and social acceptance are big issues that contribute to suicide. Although our society has changed significantly over the last 30-40 years. When growing up if a kid got bullied, the parent insisted the child take care of it and stand up for him or herself, i.e. if a bully pushed you, you pushed back twice as hard. It you were to hit by a bully, you swung back and made sure they didn't get back up to make a return swing. The bully would loose his or her power and be demoralized. If things got out of hand, a parent would speak to the other parent without the school getting involved, things would get resolved quietly. Today, it's expected that adults get involved which always makes things worse because it's no one want to hear their kid is a bully, "not my kid" and "I'm going to sue". Kids aren't learning how to solve their own problems. It's become ridiculous and the bullies keeps doing what they do. I'm certainly not condoning violence but, some kid direction on how to stand up for themselves, beginning at a young age would develop skills and fortitude. As young adults if these skills aren't learned depression sets in which suicide all to often is the end result. Take it from a former bullied kid, who parents let me learn how to tackle the issue.
PetersSmith
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4/18/2016 9:53:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:07:27 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Last semester, I realized how big of an issue suicide was.

For 1) My friends brother, whom was 12, committed suicide, due to bullying. It was a shock to everyone, because he seemed like a happy kid, and didn't ever talk about issues that were within.

2) The following semester, I noticed about 1,100 backpacks laying across our campus field. I walked over to one of the backpacks, and found out, that the backpack belonged to a suicide victim. On that backpack, was a picture of the victim, and a description of the. This is called the "Back Pack Project"

A study done by University of Tennessee, noted that "A recent study shows that over the last 30 years the suicide rate in young people has more than tripled. The most dramatic increase in the suicide rate has occurred in the 15 to 24 age bracket (up 312%), followed by the 20- to 24-year-old age group (up 163%)"both traditional college-age groups. The most sobering statistic is that suicide is second only to automobile accidents as the leading cause of death among 18- to 24-year-olds"

As we can see, suicides are more common in adolescence, and young adults, who are at this time, either beginning high school, or are in college. High-school, and College students have a lot of stress going on, and it's the prime stage for bullying. A lot of bullying will go on if someone finds out you're gay, or if you have depression, and then you get made fun of for being anti-social, or being depressed.

In 2015, 22% of CHILDREN admitted to being bullied. In 2011, 66% of children had admitted to being bullied. The effects of bullying are severe, which then can lead to suicide.... "Students who are both targets of bullying and engage in bullying behavior are at greater risk for both mental health and behavior problems than students who only bully or are only bullied." ( http://www.pacer.org...)

We can also see in the link above ^^ that bullying is most common with students who identify themselves as LGBTQ.

Those the percentage has dropped, suicide is a major issue. This should not be a taboo topic, but we definitely need to do something about it.

What should we do?

I know here, in my state, California, we are working on a pre-mental test. Which means, before a child enters a grade, a mental test is preformed on them, to ensure they are mentally healthy to move forward with their education. If the child shows signs of depression, or sever anxiety, these issues can be worked on, prior to them entering school.

We also need to make it easier for children, teens and adults to talk about their issues, at school for instance. It shouldn't be a drug-out process to go and talk to a well-trusted person, who can help.

What do you think about this issue, and how do you think we could fix it?

What do you think we should do about this issue?

A pre-mental test before school is interesting, but people can easily lie or outright refuse to get help. I think "seeking help" is something the individual actually has to want to do. Thus, it should be recommended to make students aware of counseling services and for teachers to be prepared to know warning signs and be willing to talk with students (a personal connection with a teacher can go a long way). Then of course the school needs to crack down on bullying, including cyber.
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EndarkenedRationalist
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4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.
Peepette
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4/18/2016 11:08:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

That's pretty much what I stated earlier that kids are coddled with no copping skills. Although, I do not feel that it is okay to tell anyone their fat, ugly or anything else. The kids who think this okay do not have any manners and are bullies looking to puff themselves up as powerful over others. Teaching manners and social decorum from day one lets kids know this is not okay. There are far more bullies now than 30 years ago. Parents don't tow the line like they used to when it comes to getting along with others. It's all individually centered, not socially centered upbringing. Which makes many kids lacking in appropriate social and coping skills. It all started to peak when everyone got a trophy just for participating, so no looser only winners.
1harderthanyouthink
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4/18/2016 11:16:10 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:08:17 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
It all started to peak when everyone got a trophy just for participating, so no looser only winners.

https://youtu.be...
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bballcrook21
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4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.
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Runn92
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4/19/2016 2:34:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 2:33:45 AM, Runn92 wrote:
Suicide is disproportionately a white male problem. But, we can't talk about that.

If it were disproportionately black female, then everyone would know the demographic reality of it, but since it's white males nobody cares. White males aren't a favored group right now
Raisor
Posts: 4,457
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4/19/2016 2:54:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Ok, but doesn't it seem odd that there is a rise in suicide rates when bullying today is more moderate than in the past?

^^^That was what I was going to post, then I realized I didn't actually know anything about suicide rates over time. Turns out suicide rate actually declined steadily from 1980-2010, but now there is an upswing from the low in 2011.

I don't know what to make of that, its just something I didn't know until now.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

http://afsp.org...
Raisor
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4/19/2016 3:00:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 2:34:38 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 2:33:45 AM, Runn92 wrote:
Suicide is disproportionately a white male problem. But, we can't talk about that.

If it were disproportionately black female, then everyone would know the demographic reality of it, but since it's white males nobody cares. White males aren't a favored group right now

There has been a ton of coverage about the issue, specifically about how it impacts white males and how the phenomena is so poorly understood. The issue is definitely out there in the media sphere, it has come up on DDO in discussions several times.

What makes you say nobody cares about the issue?

http://www.bbc.com...
http://www.salon.com...
http://www.nytimes.com...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.npr.org...
http://www.npr.org...
thett3
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4/19/2016 3:45:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 2:54:43 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Ok, but doesn't it seem odd that there is a rise in suicide rates when bullying today is more moderate than in the past?

About bullying... I don't think bullying today is more moderate in the past. I've thought about this a lot. I think there are two different kinds of bullying, and one kind is actually mostly benign. The 2nd graders getting lightly roughed up by the 5th graders when they have a conflict over something isn't ultimately harmful, and that was mostly the kind of bullying that you hear about from the old days. What *is* harmful is the kind of bullying that isolates a child from the rest of their social group, which is the kind of bullying that doesn't have to be physical and actually usually isn't. While there have been huge and mostly successful efforts to eradicate physical bullying psychological bullying, which is often way worse, has been virtually untouched. And now with technology and social media being so important to teenagers (and increasingly kids) there's no running away from psychological bullies--they follow you home.


^^^That was what I was going to post, then I realized I didn't actually know anything about suicide rates over time. Turns out suicide rate actually declined steadily from 1980-2010, but now there is an upswing from the low in 2011.

I don't know what to make of that, its just something I didn't know until now.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

http://afsp.org...
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Raisor
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4/19/2016 3:56:29 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:45:21 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 2:54:43 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Ok, but doesn't it seem odd that there is a rise in suicide rates when bullying today is more moderate than in the past?

About bullying... I don't think bullying today is more moderate in the past. I've thought about this a lot. I think there are two different kinds of bullying, and one kind is actually mostly benign. The 2nd graders getting lightly roughed up by the 5th graders when they have a conflict over something isn't ultimately harmful, and that was mostly the kind of bullying that you hear about from the old days. What *is* harmful is the kind of bullying that isolates a child from the rest of their social group, which is the kind of bullying that doesn't have to be physical and actually usually isn't. While there have been huge and mostly successful efforts to eradicate physical bullying psychological bullying, which is often way worse, has been virtually untouched. And now with technology and social media being so important to teenagers (and increasingly kids) there's no running away from psychological bullies--they follow you home.


I think that's a good point. I feel so far removed from that age group now that I don't have a sense of what cyber bullying actually looks like though. Do people actually, say, spam abusive text messages to other kids?

I'd also like a good explanation for why the rate dropped for so long and then started to climb. Social media was huge as early as 2000, long before the trend reversed. The data I posted didn't break out age group, and i doubt the rise is dominated by a single age demographic (but if it was that would also be interesting).

The stuff about older white males having massive suicide rates probably plays into it, but again I'm not aware of any good explanation of that trend either.


^^^That was what I was going to post, then I realized I didn't actually know anything about suicide rates over time. Turns out suicide rate actually declined steadily from 1980-2010, but now there is an upswing from the low in 2011.

I don't know what to make of that, its just something I didn't know until now.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

http://afsp.org...
Raisor
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4/19/2016 4:00:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
If anyone wants to watch a super depressing movie about a teen suicide pact that led to a lawsuit against Judas Priest for allegedly planting subliminal messages encouraging suicide:

http://www.liveleak.com...
Runn92
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4/19/2016 4:45:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:00:46 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/19/2016 2:34:38 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 2:33:45 AM, Runn92 wrote:
Suicide is disproportionately a white male problem. But, we can't talk about that.

If it were disproportionately black female, then everyone would know the demographic reality of it, but since it's white males nobody cares. White males aren't a favored group right now

There has been a ton of coverage about the issue, specifically about how it impacts white males and how the phenomena is so poorly understood. The issue is definitely out there in the media sphere, it has come up on DDO in discussions several times.

What makes you say nobody cares about the issue?

http://www.bbc.com...
http://www.salon.com...
http://www.nytimes.com...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.npr.org...
http://www.npr.org...

How many of those articles puzzle over how white males could commit suicide at such high rates despite all that white male privilege?

Do any of the articles question the existence of overbearing white male privilege in the light of such evidence? I would guess no.

The world of modern SJWs is that they actually strengthen their anti white male views whenever confronted with contrary evidence.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest
EndarkenedRationalist
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4/19/2016 7:31:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.

Stop being a sociopathic monster and be a human being.
Vaarka
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4/19/2016 4:09:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I haven't read past the first two or three posts, but I feel like myself and several other members around my age would contribute well to this if they so wished. I can share some thoughts/stories when I have the time.
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bballcrook21
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4/19/2016 4:32:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:31:55 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.

Stop being a sociopathic monster and be a human being.

Nah man, stop being a cuck. The level of cuckery you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch another man buttfck your wife right in front of you while you give them pointers and directions.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
EndarkenedRationalist
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4/19/2016 5:15:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:32:52 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:31:55 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.

Stop being a sociopathic monster and be a human being.

Nah man, stop being a cuck. The level of cuckery you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch another man buttfck your wife right in front of you while you give them pointers and directions.

Nah man, stop being a monster. The level of malice you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch starving orphans die right in front of you while you wave food and money over their heads and laugh.
bballcrook21
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4/19/2016 5:16:36 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 5:15:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:32:52 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:31:55 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.

Stop being a sociopathic monster and be a human being.

Nah man, stop being a cuck. The level of cuckery you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch another man buttfck your wife right in front of you while you give them pointers and directions.

Nah man, stop being a monster. The level of malice you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch starving orphans die right in front of you while you wave food and money over their heads and laugh.

Cuck.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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4/19/2016 5:18:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 5:16:36 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 5:15:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:32:52 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:31:55 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.

Stop being a sociopathic monster and be a human being.

Nah man, stop being a cuck. The level of cuckery you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch another man buttfck your wife right in front of you while you give them pointers and directions.

Nah man, stop being a monster. The level of malice you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch starving orphans die right in front of you while you wave food and money over their heads and laugh.

Cuck.

Monster.
Vaarka
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4/19/2016 5:27:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:09:16 PM, Vaarka wrote:
I haven't read past the first two or three posts, but I feel like myself and several other members around my age would contribute well to this if they so wished. I can share some thoughts/stories when I have the time.

So, to start off, I've never committed suicide. I also haven't had anyone particularly close to me commit suicide.

However, I do know that I've considered it before. Around 4th and 5th grade, I was bullied by some kids because I once left to use to bathroom and for some reason they found that to be a funny thing to mock me for, teasing me about "pee problems" and some other random stuff that didn't really make sense. It really annoyed me, and eventually got to me as I would often find myself not going at school, even if that meant holding it for a while. Even without that I was often feeling anxiety around 5th grade because they were giving us a ton of work. They told us they were preparing us for 6th grade, but the workload they gave us almost every night still feels like a lot. Maybe once or twice a month, we get more homework on a single night now, but compared to 5th grade, I don't have nearly as much homework every night. So I was pretty stressed out over it. Along with that, I wasn't just made fun of for whatever the "bathroom" thing was, but I was usually called weird and laughed at a lot. If I tried to talk to people who I used to call my friends, most of them would just make fun of me, call me weird, tell me to be quiet, or if I tried to make them laugh, they'd say "you're not funny". Even if they laughed, they'd quickly try and stop so they could tell me they weren't laughing at my joke. So I eventually went from a kid who was friends with everyone and joyful and whatnot, to a kid who was a little more reserved, thought I was weird, thought I wasn't funny, scared to leave the room (because if I left even to get something from my bag in the hallway, those kids who teased me would go "oooh he's going to the bathroom again!"), and was getting anxiety over school and whatnot.
Continuing on to 6th grade, I still had that anxiety, and had developed a kind of depression over time. I wasn't teased anymore, but it just kinda stuck. I wasn't really made fun of for being weird too much, and people actually began to laugh again at my jokes, and that made me feel a little better, but I still was kinda in that area of depressed anxiety and whatnot.
7th grade comes along, and I wasn't really made fun of, but I only had a few friends, and I didn't really do much with other people. At the time, even my few friends were somewhat closer to each other at the time than they were to me, but I didn't really mind. I guess it was around here that the depression set in more than anxiety, as I remember towards the end of the school year, I began to have those suicidal thoughts. Not really sure why, as I never really took actions towards it. I never practiced tying hang knots, never cut myself, never did drugs, or whatever else. I was just kinda depressed. The teasing from before was kinda behind me, but I guess I just wasn't...happy. I felt rather empty, somewhat void of emotion. So I didn't really enjoy life anymore.

I remember after 7th grade, the summer before 8th, I completely changed. I went from feeling empty to being very appreciative of my life, of my friends, of those around me, and was just happy. I think some of the stuff I discovered around then may've helped (I remember I kinda got into stuff like mlp, or other games, and music around this time). I guess I just got a new view of it, and I've never considered it since then. I've even been told that there was an obvious change when I came back to school at the start of 8th grade.

So yeah, that's my story. Nothing too dramatic, nothing too major, nothing harmful. I'm not like those people who did drugs and cut themselves and had daily struggles to resist suicide. I was just a kid who wasn't very happy, kinda depressed, and thought about suicide a few times, but didn't actually ever try it. I also know my change is rarely like others, considering how quickly and easily I seemed to change from "depressed and unhappy for some reason" to "happy go lucky yayayayayayay :D", so if you're looking for a more in-depth story of some people who almost did commit suicide, I'm not really your guy.

Have a wonderful day ;3
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bballcrook21
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4/19/2016 8:29:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 5:18:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 5:16:36 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 5:15:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:32:52 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:31:55 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:53:25 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:53:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
We need to shut down the safe spaces. We can't have these kids going somewhere where they can talk safely and openly. That'll just make them over-sensitive, entitled brats who whine about their fee-fees and can't handle any disagreement. Lol. Bullying is a myth. Cyber-bullying is a myth. There's nothing wrong with telling a kid she's a fat, ugly little $hit who couldn't think her way past an open door if that's the truth. Because that automatically makes it not bullying, see? There's nothing wrong with telling a kid he's a manipulative, power-hungry psychopath who lies and deceives and manipulates everyone around him for his own gain. And if these kids, for reasons beyond human rationality, somehow are hurt by these remarks, it just means they aren't tough enough. They're just coddled little weaklings. They need to be less sensitive, that's all.

Stop being a sarcastic cuck and be a man.

Stop being a sociopathic monster and be a human being.

Nah man, stop being a cuck. The level of cuckery you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch another man buttfck your wife right in front of you while you give them pointers and directions.

Nah man, stop being a monster. The level of malice you exhibit makes me feel as if you would happily watch starving orphans die right in front of you while you wave food and money over their heads and laugh.

Cuck.

Monster.

Cuck cuckson.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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4/19/2016 10:16:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 5:27:58 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:09:16 PM, Vaarka wrote:
I haven't read past the first two or three posts, but I feel like myself and several other members around my age would contribute well to this if they so wished. I can share some thoughts/stories when I have the time.

So, to start off, I've never committed suicide.

I want to quote that in my sig, but just having a song has kind of become my thing.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Blade-of-Truth
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4/19/2016 10:26:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:07:27 PM, Rosalie wrote:
What should we do?

I know here, in my state, California, we are working on a pre-mental test. Which means, before a child enters a grade, a mental test is preformed on them, to ensure they are mentally healthy to move forward with their education. If the child shows signs of depression, or sever anxiety, these issues can be worked on, prior to them entering school.

We also need to make it easier for children, teens and adults to talk about their issues, at school for instance. It shouldn't be a drug-out process to go and talk to a well-trusted person, who can help.

What do you think about this issue, and how do you think we could fix it?

What do you think we should do about this issue?

I think there are alot of factors that need to be addressed when trying to dive down this particular rabbit hole.

First and foremost, there is a difference between bullying being a source of depression/anxiety and students who already suffer from such ailments before or in the absence of bullying. So, immediately we can break this discussion down between two groups - kids who get bullied and then develop symptoms, and those who had symptoms without bullying being in the picture.

In regards to the first group, I think avoidance and defense are the best measures against bullying. The only thing I can go off of are my own experiences. My family had me in Karate and Tae Kwon Do classes from age 4 until highschool. Same with my sister. So, for us, bullying wasn't a physical issue since I knew how to defend myself, and defend myself I did - on multiple occasions. The mental aspect is different though, the stress that comes from the anxiety of dealing with a bully pre-fight. It would get to me, sure. For me though, as soon as we'd fight the issue was over. So, I guess ultimately it's the ability to overcome your fear and having the will to dominate those who attempted to dominate you. Obviously I cannot speak on bullying for girls or those who have no training in defense or martial arts, but for my own kids - they're going to put in martial arts classes just like I was, and that will be that.

In regards to the second group, I think mentality tests are a good idea. Not just for those who are suffering from being bullied or depressed, but also for those who might end up potentially harming other students. I actually really like that idea, but don't know much about it. Unfortunately sometimes it's out of the schools control due to the home-life being the source of the anxiety or depression, and for me - brings me back to another point regarding how our modern family unit is completely broken in America, but that's a topic for another day.

As for suicide in general, I've danced that fine line myself. I've never *attempted* to take my own life, but I've certainly considered it once or twice in the past when experiencing rough traumas in my own life that left me feeling existentially hopeless or bored. Ultimately, I had to define my own value and purpose in life and did, so that's no issue whatsoever these days - but it's a hard fight to fully overcome since we are left to always define our own purpose for living. I think it's actually an incredibly courageous act, to dive into the unknown... but it's also an incredibly selfish act, as it usually negatively impacts the lives of those who loved you and, of course, robs you of the opportunity to set your own life back on track or achieve what you truly want to achieve in this life.

So, even suicide itself is a complicated matter. We have cases like the one you shared about the 12 year old, and that's just a tragedy. I mean, 12 years old... good grief, so much potential yet discovered. On the other hand, we have people like George Eastman, the founder of Kodak, who killed himself at the age of 77 with a note saying, "My work is done, why wait?". So, again, it is a complicated matter that depends solely on the circumstances surrounding it. In the manner of this OP, I'd say suicide is generally a tragedy, and if the schools can implement measures to help avoid these cases in young people, then I'm all for it.

As for the lack of communication, or making it easier for people to talk about these issues - alot of that ties into the lack of any real sense of 'community' these days. I mean, honestly, how many people reading this know the names of their surrounding neighbors? Communities have been replaced with networks in which you keep in touch with only your closest friends and family; gone is the age of the township. For the whole of America"s history, its core social building block [evolved] from the colonial village to the frontier town to the urban tenements to the first ring suburb. Americans, even if they didn"t like their neighbors, they understood them.

This whole shift in our sense of community has robbed us of the ability to genuinely connect with various people we come in contact with on a daily basis in the 'real' world. We look down at the ground while walking instead of straight ahead, we see couples who can text to one another perfectly fine but then are awkward when they meet up in person, all of these things stem from our lack of community where, once upon a time, we had no other means of communicating aside from face-to-face dialogue.

With that said, there are multiple other factors at play, that's just the biggest one in my opinion in regards to the increase in difficulty we apparently suffer from when interacting with people face to face; or trusting them enough to talk about such heavy issues like suicidal thoughts.

Ultimately, school implementing mentality tests does seem to be a good start, but there's so much more we can do, which includes (but is not limited to):

1) Teaching our children how to physically defend themselves from bullies.

2) Teaching our children how to mentally handle the criticisms from the bullies.

3) Teaching our children to have a strong sense of community.

4) Teaching our children the value of personal interactions with people rather than solely electronic means.

I do believe that if these four measures are taken, we'd see a significant drop in this issue pertaining to bullying and the following depression that stems from such interaction.
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Skepsikyma
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4/20/2016 12:54:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:26:48 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/18/2016 9:07:27 PM, Rosalie wrote:
As for the lack of communication, or making it easier for people to talk about these issues - alot of that ties into the lack of any real sense of 'community' these days. I mean, honestly, how many people reading this know the names of their surrounding neighbors? Communities have been replaced with networks in which you keep in touch with only your closest friends and family; gone is the age of the township. For the whole of America"s history, its core social building block [evolved] from the colonial village to the frontier town to the urban tenements to the first ring suburb. Americans, even if they didn"t like their neighbors, they understood them.

This whole shift in our sense of community has robbed us of the ability to genuinely connect with various people we come in contact with on a daily basis in the 'real' world. We look down at the ground while walking instead of straight ahead, we see couples who can text to one another perfectly fine but then are awkward when they meet up in person, all of these things stem from our lack of community where, once upon a time, we had no other means of communicating aside from face-to-face dialogue.

I think that there's definitely something to be said for this point. I'm always thankful that I had a lot of siblings, extended family, and family friends around me; that really grounded me throughout most of my life. I'm always startled that most of the people whom I have met never really had that experience; they knew only a small nuclear family, and that was pretty much it outside of school. I look at my grandmother, who is very old fashioned in that regard, and regularly has people over for dinner and has maintained friendships for ages, and I don't know anyone now who makes that kind of effort. Communities used to revolve around both religions and stay-at-home moms, who would rely on one another for companionship and form connections between the families within a neighborhood. As more families have both parents working, those social networks have atrophied and the nuclear family has become more and more atomized. The fact that people often move away after attending college also fragments extended families, which in my opinion are even more important than nuclear families when it comes to social stability and community building.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Vaarka
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4/20/2016 1:54:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:16:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 4/19/2016 5:27:58 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:09:16 PM, Vaarka wrote:
I haven't read past the first two or three posts, but I feel like myself and several other members around my age would contribute well to this if they so wished. I can share some thoughts/stories when I have the time.

So, to start off, I've never committed suicide.

I want to quote that in my sig, but just having a song has kind of become my thing.

Lol
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
triangle.128k
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4/20/2016 2:01:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:07:27 PM, Rosalie wrote:
Last semester, I realized how big of an issue suicide was.

For 1) My friends brother, whom was 12, committed suicide, due to bullying. It was a shock to everyone, because he seemed like a happy kid, and didn't ever talk about issues that were within.

2) The following semester, I noticed about 1,100 backpacks laying across our campus field. I walked over to one of the backpacks, and found out, that the backpack belonged to a suicide victim. On that backpack, was a picture of the victim, and a description of the. This is called the "Back Pack Project"

A study done by University of Tennessee, noted that "A recent study shows that over the last 30 years the suicide rate in young people has more than tripled. The most dramatic increase in the suicide rate has occurred in the 15 to 24 age bracket (up 312%), followed by the 20- to 24-year-old age group (up 163%)"both traditional college-age groups. The most sobering statistic is that suicide is second only to automobile accidents as the leading cause of death among 18- to 24-year-olds"

As we can see, suicides are more common in adolescence, and young adults, who are at this time, either beginning high school, or are in college. High-school, and College students have a lot of stress going on, and it's the prime stage for bullying. A lot of bullying will go on if someone finds out you're gay, or if you have depression, and then you get made fun of for being anti-social, or being depressed.

In 2015, 22% of CHILDREN admitted to being bullied. In 2011, 66% of children had admitted to being bullied. The effects of bullying are severe, which then can lead to suicide.... "Students who are both targets of bullying and engage in bullying behavior are at greater risk for both mental health and behavior problems than students who only bully or are only bullied." ( http://www.pacer.org...)

We can also see in the link above ^^ that bullying is most common with students who identify themselves as LGBTQ.

Those the percentage has dropped, suicide is a major issue. This should not be a taboo topic, but we definitely need to do something about it.

What should we do?

I know here, in my state, California, we are working on a pre-mental test. Which means, before a child enters a grade, a mental test is preformed on them, to ensure they are mentally healthy to move forward with their education. If the child shows signs of depression, or sever anxiety, these issues can be worked on, prior to them entering school.

We also need to make it easier for children, teens and adults to talk about their issues, at school for instance. It shouldn't be a drug-out process to go and talk to a well-trusted person, who can help.

What do you think about this issue, and how do you think we could fix it?

What do you think we should do about this issue?

I would say part of it is due to the horrible public high school culture in the United States, at least in comparison to the rest of the free world. High schoolers should not be more worried about "fitting in" or avoiding bullies, as to the contrary of focusing on other things such as studies or entertainment.

The culture of American public high schools are definitely one reason to many social problems experienced.