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Opinions of Transgender people.

MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,394
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4/23/2016 10:24:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
A popular topic on DDO and around the world is the relatively new concept of Transgender, which is defined as "denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender."

While the idea of trangender and similar identities has been around for a while, I still haven't been able to form a solid opinion on it. I waver from For to Against and have never have been able to stick to an idea consistently.

This is why I am here. I've heard opinions from both sides of the debate across the internet but neither has fully convinced me. Therefore, I ask you to share your thoughts on this subject. Do you believe that Trangender people have the right to express themselves how they want? Or do you think that they should be limited to stop the number of gender identities getting too far out of hand?

Perhaps through your arguments I can finally break the stalemate with myself.
Please discuss.
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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4/23/2016 4:26:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I think they are either literally insane or just looking for attention. Furthermore, parents who give their children hormone therapy because they're convinced that one time little Timmy played with a Barbie means he's trans ought to be made to collectively dig their own communal grave and be shot into it.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
RyuuKyuzo
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4/23/2016 4:37:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
On a related note, it blows my mind that therapy meant to help these people come to realize they really are the gender that matches their sex is considered bigoted and identity-erasing, but buckets of hormones and a series of elective and even invasive surgeries is considered the ethically correct solution to suggest.

We live in a world where trying to make people normal is some great evil, but enabling and mutilating these people, even if these people are children, is considered somehow noble.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Torton
Posts: 988
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4/23/2016 7:43:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Couldn't care less, as long as it only affects the individual, and they're of an age that they're sure of it. It definitely shouldn't be something that's forced on someone by another.
Torton
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4/23/2016 7:55:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
Been reading a little too much /pol/, there ay, bud?
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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4/23/2016 7:58:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:55:59 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
Been reading a little too much /pol/, there ay, bud?

I've heard so much about that site, but no, I've never been there before.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Torton
Posts: 988
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4/23/2016 8:06:40 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:58:16 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:55:59 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
Been reading a little too much /pol/, there ay, bud?

I've heard so much about that site, but no, I've never been there before.
Reads exactly like something I'd find there. Only difference is >.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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4/23/2016 8:15:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 8:06:40 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:58:16 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:55:59 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
Been reading a little too much /pol/, there ay, bud?

I've heard so much about that site, but no, I've never been there before.
Reads exactly like something I'd find there. Only difference is >.

>Mental retardation and degeneracy. Physically remove at once, Hoppe style.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Torton
Posts: 988
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4/23/2016 8:18:37 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 8:15:27 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:06:40 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:58:16 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:55:59 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
Been reading a little too much /pol/, there ay, bud?

I've heard so much about that site, but no, I've never been there before.
Reads exactly like something I'd find there. Only difference is >.

>Mental retardation and degeneracy. Physically remove at once, Hoppe style.
The ">" symbols causes greentext on 4chan. Doesn't very well work here.
lannan13
Posts: 23,021
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4/23/2016 11:45:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
They have every right to express themselves in anyway they want. It's their freedom of Speech and Freedom of Privacy.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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EvanescentEfflorescence
Posts: 303
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4/24/2016 9:35:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:24:46 AM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
A popular topic on DDO and around the world is the relatively new concept of Transgender, which is defined as "denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender."

While the idea of trangender and similar identities has been around for a while, I still haven't been able to form a solid opinion on it. I waver from For to Against and have never have been able to stick to an idea consistently.

This is why I am here. I've heard opinions from both sides of the debate across the internet but neither has fully convinced me. Therefore, I ask you to share your thoughts on this subject. Do you believe that Trangender people have the right to express themselves how they want?

It's not so much expressing, it's who they really are. These people are laced with unique hard-wiring which does not fit gender-binary.

Or do you think that they should be limited to stop the number of gender identities getting too far out of hand?

I think that there is some merit to this line of argument, but its implications should not be absolute. About 80% of teenagers who identify as transgendered are *not* actually transgendered. Allowing transgenderism to be openly expressed in a society encourages this, unfortunately.

As for the other gender identities, I think that there are some other unique ones (XXY males -- off the top of my head), but there is a slew of absolute nonsense that has crept into gender identities (pansexual, demi-sexual, attack-helicopter etc.).


Perhaps through your arguments I can finally break the stalemate with myself.
Please discuss.

It's a nuanced topic that does require a bit of research to reach a reasonable conclusion.
Free vote -- short read. I've spent well over 15 hours researching abortion in the past week, so there might be something there for you. I recommend reading Con's counter-arguments first to come to a quick decisions, but the choice is all yours:

http://www.debate.org...

The opponent didn't respond:

http://www.debate.org...

No response:

http://www.debate.org...
TheDom275
Posts: 36
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4/24/2016 9:59:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I just think of this the same way I think of anything else, "Don't be a d!ck and let people enjoy things". If letting them enjoy it means they're gonna be d!cks about it then fvck 'em, if not then let them do what they want.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/24/2016 11:37:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:55:59 PM, Torton wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.
Been reading a little too much /pol/, there ay, bud?

My thoughts exactly. Some members of this site seem to be quite redpilled.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
EvanescentEfflorescence
Posts: 303
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4/24/2016 12:11:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.

Amazing post with detailed depth and justification. I rate 14/88 -- should be on the front page of Stormfront.
Free vote -- short read. I've spent well over 15 hours researching abortion in the past week, so there might be something there for you. I recommend reading Con's counter-arguments first to come to a quick decisions, but the choice is all yours:

http://www.debate.org...

The opponent didn't respond:

http://www.debate.org...

No response:

http://www.debate.org...
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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4/24/2016 1:06:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:24:46 AM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
A popular topic on DDO and around the world is the relatively new concept of Transgender, which is defined as "denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender."

While the idea of trangender and similar identities has been around for a while, I still haven't been able to form a solid opinion on it. I waver from For to Against and have never have been able to stick to an idea consistently.

This is why I am here. I've heard opinions from both sides of the debate across the internet but neither has fully convinced me. Therefore, I ask you to share your thoughts on this subject. Do you believe that Trangender people have the right to express themselves how they want? Or do you think that they should be limited to stop the number of gender identities getting too far out of hand?

Perhaps through your arguments I can finally break the stalemate with myself.
Please discuss.

I am not against Transgender rights movements nor am I necessarily for it. I don't see any harms in people identifying however they want however, and thus would not have a reason to be actively against it. Is it for attention sometimes? Maybe. Who cares.

I am sure there are plenty of them that actually want to identify a certain way and then will commit to that and go all out. For those ones, more power to them. If they want to go through surgical procedures to do it, then they've probably earned the right to use the other gender's bathroom.

For the ones that don't do any type of physical or cosmetic changes and would identify as a different gender, I guess it is eye-roll worthy, but at the same time I don't see any societal harms to it so whatever.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/24/2016 1:39:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I think there are some who are genuinely hard wired to a different sex than their birth sex. Not having the ability to represent yourself as you truly are would ultimately be a miserable existence. The process of physically changing one's sex is a long one, expensive, and there's a lot of psychiatric evaluation done along the way. From what I've read only 33% of transgender people actually undergo gender reassignment surgery. Most believing it's not necessary if they can represent themselves as they choose. The grey area is where young people who are just learning, teetering or experimenting with their sexuality might get a bit confused since there's a level of acceptance to different sexual binaries; a sort of trying on roles to find what is the best fit. It may feel like a good fit in a person's life at the time, but not be later in life.
MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,394
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4/24/2016 8:17:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.

Any evidence for your statement?
MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,394
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4/24/2016 8:26:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:43:33 PM, Torton wrote:
Couldn't care less, as long as it only affects the individual, and they're of an age that they're sure of it. It definitely shouldn't be something that's forced on someone by another.

Yeah I'm of a similar mind. For the most part I don't care less about them. But I don't know. I have a old friend who's transgender now and it's still difficult to use their correct pronouncs and everything. It's hard because they look similar to how I remember them but instead of "he" it's "she".

The friend just got me thinking that perhaps I should finally form an opinion in an effort to try and understand her and her thoughts/feelings.

Either way, I do agree overall. The truest form of equality is when you can do something like this and the reaction is just "So? Why do you expect me to care?".
MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,394
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4/24/2016 8:32:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 9:35:58 AM, EvanescentEfflorescence wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:24:46 AM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
A popular topic on DDO and around the world is the relatively new concept of Transgender, which is defined as "denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender."

While the idea of trangender and similar identities has been around for a while, I still haven't been able to form a solid opinion on it. I waver from For to Against and have never have been able to stick to an idea consistently.

This is why I am here. I've heard opinions from both sides of the debate across the internet but neither has fully convinced me. Therefore, I ask you to share your thoughts on this subject. Do you believe that Trangender people have the right to express themselves how they want?

It's not so much expressing, it's who they really are. These people are laced with unique hard-wiring which does not fit gender-binary.

Yeah. Perhaps express is the wrong word.
Or do you think that they should be limited to stop the number of gender identities getting too far out of hand?

I think that there is some merit to this line of argument, but its implications should not be absolute. About 80% of teenagers who identify as transgendered are *not* actually transgendered. Allowing transgenderism to be openly expressed in a society encourages this, unfortunately.

As for the other gender identities, I think that there are some other unique ones (XXY males -- off the top of my head), but there is a slew of absolute nonsense that has crept into gender identities (pansexual, demi-sexual, attack-helicopter etc.).


Perhaps through your arguments I can finally break the stalemate with myself.
Please discuss.

It's a nuanced topic that does require a bit of research to reach a reasonable conclusion.

Indeed. I've been spending some time looking over the topic when I have time (Unforunately it has been quite limited lately). The reason I posted was to further my research, through taking in differing opinions.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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4/24/2016 8:40:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:24:46 AM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
A popular topic on DDO and around the world is the relatively new concept of Transgender, which is defined as "denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender."

While the idea of trangender and similar identities has been around for a while, I still haven't been able to form a solid opinion on it. I waver from For to Against and have never have been able to stick to an idea consistently.

This is why I am here. I've heard opinions from both sides of the debate across the internet but neither has fully convinced me. Therefore, I ask you to share your thoughts on this subject. Do you believe that Trangender people have the right to express themselves how they want? Or do you think that they should be limited to stop the number of gender identities getting too far out of hand?

Perhaps through your arguments I can finally break the stalemate with myself.
Please discuss.

There's evidence that trans people have different brain structures which more closely align with the norm for the opposite sex. So it's a real phenomenon, but how to deal with it is controversial. Sexual reassignment is a tough issue, and should be deliberated carefully before going through with it. Beginning to transition children is beyond abominable, and I agree with Ryuu about the parents who would push that on a child.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/24/2016 9:13:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

But, you know, egging self-mutilation on is the good and righteous thing to do.

At 4/23/2016 4:26:07 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
parents who give their children hormone therapy because they're convinced that one time little Timmy played with a Barbie means he's trans ought to be made to collectively dig their own communal grave and be shot into it.

^^^^
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/24/2016 9:29:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 9:13:32 PM, someloser wrote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

But, you know, egging self-mutilation on is the good and righteous thing to do.

At 4/23/2016 4:26:07 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
parents who give their children hormone therapy because they're convinced that one time little Timmy played with a Barbie means he's trans ought to be made to collectively dig their own communal grave and be shot into it.

^^^^

That's great that assumptions can be made based from only one case? Amazing!
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/24/2016 9:55:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 9:29:17 PM, Peepette wrote:
That's great that assumptions can be made based from only one case? Amazing!
The assumption being
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,637
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4/24/2016 10:00:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 9:13:32 PM, someloser wrote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

That's an interesting find, are you aware of any side effects, cases where it didn't work, etc.? It almost seems like it's too good to be true.
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/24/2016 10:02:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 10:00:24 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 4/24/2016 9:13:32 PM, someloser wrote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

That's an interesting find, are you aware of any side effects, cases where it didn't work, etc.?
None far as I know. Seems to be the only study on the drug, from what Google finds at least.

It almost seems like it's too good to be true.
Given that it's just one case, that may be true. Either way, the implications for non-mutilating treatments are particularly important
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
lannan13
Posts: 23,021
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4/25/2016 2:48:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:33:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
Mental retardation and degeneracy. Remove at once.

People like you should be removed from society and introduced into sensitivity training where they are forced to accept liberal ideas.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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slo1
Posts: 4,314
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4/25/2016 6:46:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 4:26:07 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I think they are either literally insane or just looking for attention. Furthermore, parents who give their children hormone therapy because they're convinced that one time little Timmy played with a Barbie means he's trans ought to be made to collectively dig their own communal grave and be shot into it.

Oh, yeah, I was just waiting for that "one time" my son's played with a doll so I could put him on estrogen. He never did it though, drat.

wtf?