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Isn't it time that a line be drawn on conduct

Lookingatissues
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4/28/2016 12:27:51 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Isn't it time that a line be drawn on conduct that's permissible in America.
Is there a line to be drawn on behavior that's permissible in America today or has it came down to "Anything goes." America's people have, it seems, instead of becoming a more genteel and refined society have progressed in Attitudes and manners that were once confined to sleazy bar rooms and back alleys. When the Supreme court ruled that, Religion and morals, that were part of the teachings of religion were separated from America's citizens( Separation OF CHURCH and state,) the baseness of the citizens behavior towards one another has reached a record low of incivility in their everyday conduct with each other. The coarseness of behavior exhibited on America's main streets has been accompanied by the coarseness of gutter lyrics and pulsations of Rap blaring down upon those whose sensitivities have been hardened by todays crude levels of society.
The question that one must ask is, when will the level of permissiveness and degradation finally have reached a unacceptable level of depravity and a line will be drawn where the citizens finally will say," enough, this far, and no farther, we're not going to tolerate this kind of conduct any longer and demand a return to civil respectability once more.
That line should have been drawn long ago but maybe its not to late to return once again to a time when America was once a nice place to live and raise a family.
Daedal
Posts: 157
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4/28/2016 3:10:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
That's a great idea. Why not copy the Iranians and have a Morality Police?

http://www.theguardian.com...

Extract:

As summer approaches, police in Tehran have once again begun to crack down on Iranians who fail to comply with the country"s Islamic dress code. This year, besides the customary uniformed morality police, 7,000 undercover agents are reportedly also on the case.
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 4:06:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Yeah good idea, let's have a Christian version of Sharia.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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4/28/2016 5:23:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 12:27:51 AM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Isn't it time that a line be drawn on conduct that's permissible in America.
Is there a line to be drawn on behavior that's permissible in America today or has it came down to "Anything goes." America's people have, it seems, instead of becoming a more genteel and refined society have progressed in Attitudes and manners that were once confined to sleazy bar rooms and back alleys. When the Supreme court ruled that, Religion and morals, that were part of the teachings of religion were separated from America's citizens( Separation OF CHURCH and state,) the baseness of the citizens behavior towards one another has reached a record low of incivility in their everyday conduct with each other. The coarseness of behavior exhibited on America's main streets has been accompanied by the coarseness of gutter lyrics and pulsations of Rap blaring down upon those whose sensitivities have been hardened by todays crude levels of society.
The question that one must ask is, when will the level of permissiveness and degradation finally have reached a unacceptable level of depravity and a line will be drawn where the citizens finally will say," enough, this far, and no farther, we're not going to tolerate this kind of conduct any longer and demand a return to civil respectability once more.
That line should have been drawn long ago but maybe its not to late to return once again to a time when America was once a nice place to live and raise a family.

Having read your generally incoherent post, I am left wondering what you mean by "civility."

Civility, or civil respectability, or whatever else you want to call it... that kind of language has a range of possible meanings. When I think of "civil respectability" I think of Republican politicians not officiously policing bathrooms based on contrived threats and nonexistent dangers. I think about people getting along with one another in the society and culture, respecting other people as human beings. I think about states not passing stupid and unconstitutional laws allowing therapists to deny service to people who are different than they are. I think about people not masking their bigotry in the specious language of religious freedom.

But somehow, I get the feeling that the kind of civility you're talking about is very different from any notion of civility elsewhere. In fact, I get the sense that you would support the stupid laws that Republicans are passing in a nationally concerted effort to legalize discriminatory practices in the marketplace, who inflame idiotic and unfounded paranoia about looming danger in bathrooms, who attack people who are different than they are because of the differences and then pretend like those differences have some kind of moral significance.

So if by "drawing a line" you are implying that we should pass stupid discriminatory laws which give legislative force to hate and bigotry, then let me be clear when I say that the time will never come to draw that sort of line in the sand.

But there are other kinds that can be drawn.... lines that deal with what stupidity members of the Republican party can entertain themselves with.
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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4/28/2016 10:48:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 12:27:51 AM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Isn't it time that a line be drawn on conduct that's permissible in America.
Is there a line to be drawn on behavior that's permissible in America today or has it came down to "Anything goes." America's people have, it seems, instead of becoming a more genteel and refined society have progressed in Attitudes and manners that were once confined to sleazy bar rooms and back alleys. When the Supreme court ruled that, Religion and morals, that were part of the teachings of religion were separated from America's citizens( Separation OF CHURCH and state,) the baseness of the citizens behavior towards one another has reached a record low of incivility in their everyday conduct with each other. The coarseness of behavior exhibited on America's main streets has been accompanied by the coarseness of gutter lyrics and pulsations of Rap blaring down upon those whose sensitivities have been hardened by todays crude levels of society.
The question that one must ask is, when will the level of permissiveness and degradation finally have reached a unacceptable level of depravity and a line will be drawn where the citizens finally will say," enough, this far, and no farther, we're not going to tolerate this kind of conduct any longer and demand a return to civil respectability once more.
That line should have been drawn long ago but maybe its not to late to return once again to a time when America was once a nice place to live and raise a family.

The society you're describing is a better place to live than our current United States, but it will never exist again.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
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4/29/2016 2:39:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
YYW wrote:
lookingattheissues response ...
YYW posted ...." Having read your generally incoherent post, I am left wondering what you mean by "civility."
lookingattheissues response to YYW... APRIL 28Th. 2016 on Debate.org under FORUM.. Under Society...
YYW posted ...." Having read your generally incoherent post, I am left wondering what you mean by "civility."
You asked a question that I thought was self- explanatory, you asked,"I am left wondering what you mean by "civility." I looked up the meaning of the word,"civility," in Merrian- Webster dictionary for you and the definition given there," civilized conduct; especially : courtesy, politeness b : a polite act or expression."
Simple Definition of civility
polite, reasonable, and respectful behavior
Then I searched another dictionary for the Definition of civility in Dictionary.com, listed there was the following definitions, Definition of civility,"civility
noun, plural civilities.
1. courtesy; politeness.
2. a polite action or expression: an exchange of civilities.
British Dictionary definitions for civility"
Word Origin and History for civility
from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas) "the art of governing; courteousness," from cvilis "relating to a citizen, relating to public life, befitting a citizen; popular, affable, courteous" (see civil ). Later especially "good citizenship" (1530s). Also "state of being civilized" (1540s); "behavior proper to civilized persons" (1560s).
A usage of a dictionary is a very good practice to follow when in doubt of the meanings of certain words.
You posted, "When I think of "civil respectability" I think of Republican politicians not officiously policing bathrooms based on contrived threats and nonexistent dangers"
You have made a effort to confuse by attempting to obfuscate the issue by draging in the republicans and inferring that only republicans, in your views, hold outdated prudish morals, and are the only ones who see the logic of separating the public bathrooms by sex.
In a unintended way you have complemented the republicans by inferring that republicans have a higher moral standard which the democrats sadly lack suggesting that any kind of arrangment is permissible as far as the democrats are concerned.
The progressive democrats are suggesting, in effect, that Americans should revert back to the ways that the less developed parts of the world think are acceptable practices as far as bathroom facilities are concerned.
Why not, if you think it proper for both sexes to use the same bath rooms, why not just do away with bathrooms altogether and just allow humans, male and female, to do their business in the out of doors, For example, like the people in India ....in India, it's 1 out of every 2 people...defecates out in the open...." If the progressive democrats can't see the logic in having separate bathrooms for the different sexes why bother with having private areas to go to the bath room, just do like the animals do and relieve themselves when a person happens to feel the need.
"AMERICAN RESTROOM ASSOCIATION" seemed to think that separate bathrooms were appropriate and their codes reflect this,
"The codes are designed so that males and females are entitled to, and provided, the same level of amenities, "this includes privacy....." Do you think that the "AMERICAN RESTROOM ASSOCIATION" is only composed of republicans?
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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4/29/2016 2:52:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 2:39:22 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
YYW wrote:
lookingattheissues response ...
YYW posted ...." Having read your generally incoherent post, I am left wondering what you mean by "civility."
lookingattheissues response to YYW... APRIL 28Th. 2016 on Debate.org under FORUM.. Under Society...
YYW posted ...." Having read your generally incoherent post, I am left wondering what you mean by "civility."
You asked a question that I thought was self- explanatory, you asked,"I am left wondering what you mean by "civility." I looked up the meaning of the word,"civility," in Merrian- Webster dictionary for you and the definition given there," civilized conduct; especially : courtesy, politeness b : a polite act or expression."
Simple Definition of civility
polite, reasonable, and respectful behavior
Then I searched another dictionary for the Definition of civility in Dictionary.com, listed there was the following definitions, Definition of civility,"civility
noun, plural civilities.
1. courtesy; politeness.
2. a polite action or expression: an exchange of civilities.
British Dictionary definitions for civility"
Word Origin and History for civility
from Latin civitatem (nominative civitas) "the art of governing; courteousness," from cvilis "relating to a citizen, relating to public life, befitting a citizen; popular, affable, courteous" (see civil ). Later especially "good citizenship" (1530s). Also "state of being civilized" (1540s); "behavior proper to civilized persons" (1560s).
A usage of a dictionary is a very good practice to follow when in doubt of the meanings of certain words.
You posted, "When I think of "civil respectability" I think of Republican politicians not officiously policing bathrooms based on contrived threats and nonexistent dangers"
You have made a effort to confuse by attempting to obfuscate the issue by draging in the republicans and inferring that only republicans, in your views, hold outdated prudish morals, and are the only ones who see the logic of separating the public bathrooms by sex.
In a unintended way you have complemented the republicans by inferring that republicans have a higher moral standard which the democrats sadly lack suggesting that any kind of arrangment is permissible as far as the democrats are concerned.
The progressive democrats are suggesting, in effect, that Americans should revert back to the ways that the less developed parts of the world think are acceptable practices as far as bathroom facilities are concerned.
Why not, if you think it proper for both sexes to use the same bath rooms, why not just do away with bathrooms altogether and just allow humans, male and female, to do their business in the out of doors, For example, like the people in India ....in India, it's 1 out of every 2 people...defecates out in the open...." If the progressive democrats can't see the logic in having separate bathrooms for the different sexes why bother with having private areas to go to the bath room, just do like the animals do and relieve themselves when a person happens to feel the need.
"AMERICAN RESTROOM ASSOCIATION" seemed to think that separate bathrooms were appropriate and their codes reflect this,
"The codes are designed so that males and females are entitled to, and provided, the same level of amenities, "this includes privacy....." Do you think that the "AMERICAN RESTROOM ASSOCIATION" is only composed of republicans?

This is absolute garbage.
Tsar of DDO
Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
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4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Thank you for your comments... "The society you're describing is a better place to live than our current United States, but it will never exist again."
I believe that many, would like to return to a day when America's citizens were patriotic and believed that their government was too. A day in the past when the role and sex of Mother and dad was never in doubt and both sexes were happy in their given honorable positions as man and wife. A day long past when the children of the family brought honor and a feeling of accomplishment to their parents knowing that they had children who they could take pride in because of the way that they had matured and were now responsible adults, not adults who still acted and thought like children.
Which was the better world, the past world or the present world. Todays society gives the answer loud and clear and only those who wish to deny the obvious still remain willfully blind and complacent.
Whittaker Chambers once spoke of the decay and degradation of America," It is idle to speak of saving western civilization because western civilization is already a wreak from within. That is why we can hope to do little more now than snatch a fingernail of a saint from the rock or a handful of ashes ....., and bury them secretly in a flower point against the day, ages hence, when a few men begin again to dare to believe that there was once something else, that something else is thinkable and need some evidence of what it was and the fortifying knowledge that there were those who at the great nightfall, took loving thought to preserve the tokens of hope and truth."
Vox_Veritas
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4/30/2016 3:39:10 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Thank you for your comments... "The society you're describing is a better place to live than our current United States, but it will never exist again."
I believe that many, would like to return to a day when America's citizens were patriotic and believed that their government was too. A day in the past when the role and sex of Mother and dad was never in doubt and both sexes were happy in their given honorable positions as man and wife. A day long past when the children of the family brought honor and a feeling of accomplishment to their parents knowing that they had children who they could take pride in because of the way that they had matured and were now responsible adults, not adults who still acted and thought like children.
Which was the better world, the past world or the present world. Todays society gives the answer loud and clear and only those who wish to deny the obvious still remain willfully blind and complacent.
Whittaker Chambers once spoke of the decay and degradation of America," It is idle to speak of saving western civilization because western civilization is already a wreak from within. That is why we can hope to do little more now than snatch a fingernail of a saint from the rock or a handful of ashes ....., and bury them secretly in a flower point against the day, ages hence, when a few men begin again to dare to believe that there was once something else, that something else is thinkable and need some evidence of what it was and the fortifying knowledge that there were those who at the great nightfall, took loving thought to preserve the tokens of hope and truth."

The majority of the American people absolutely do not want this.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Daedal
Posts: 157
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4/30/2016 3:58:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Thank you for your comments... "The society you're describing is a better place to live than our current United States, but it will never exist again."
I believe that many, would like to return to a day when America's citizens were patriotic and believed that their government was too. A day in the past when the role and sex of Mother and dad was never in doubt and both sexes were happy in their given honorable positions as man and wife. A day long past when the children of the family brought honor and a feeling of accomplishment to their parents knowing that they had children who they could take pride in because of the way that they had matured and were now responsible adults, not adults who still acted and thought like children.
Which was the better world, the past world or the present world. Todays society gives the answer loud and clear and only those who wish to deny the obvious still remain willfully blind and complacent.
Whittaker Chambers once spoke of the decay and degradation of America," It is idle to speak of saving western civilization because western civilization is already a wreak from within. That is why we can hope to do little more now than snatch a fingernail of a saint from the rock or a handful of ashes ....., and bury them secretly in a flower point against the day, ages hence, when a few men begin again to dare to believe that there was once something else, that something else is thinkable and need some evidence of what it was and the fortifying knowledge that there were those who at the great nightfall, took loving thought to preserve the tokens of hope and truth."

There must be places in America where you could go and live which are extremely conservative. The Amish come to mind. Other than that, you're kind of stuffed really, because there's no way of changing it.
Lookingatissues
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4/30/2016 4:16:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 , Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Thank you for your comments... "The society you're describing is a better place to live than our current United States, but it will never exist again."
Your reply has left me in a quandary as to how to interpret your meaning when you wrote," The majority of the American people absolutely do not want this."
Did you mean to imply that the majority of todays Americans don't believe as I do and are satisfied with the way that the country is going.
Vox_Veritas
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4/30/2016 4:38:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 4:16:11 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
At 4/30/2016 , Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Thank you for your comments... "The society you're describing is a better place to live than our current United States, but it will never exist again."
Your reply has left me in a quandary as to how to interpret your meaning when you wrote," The majority of the American people absolutely do not want this."
Did you mean to imply that the majority of todays Americans don't believe as I do and are satisfied with the way that the country is going.

They aren't satisfied. They want America to go farther than it already has.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
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5/1/2016 2:27:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 3:58:14 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
There must be places in America where you could go and live which are extremely conservative. The Amish come to mind. Other than that, you're kind of stuffed really, because there's no way of changing it.
You posted,"There must be places in America where you could go and live which are extremely conservative. The Amish come to mind. Other than that, you're kind of stuffed really, because there's no way of changing it."
Progressives/ liberals, tout tolerance and demand that those who are different, for example, transgenders, gays, etc, have to be accepted and can't be made to conform to traditionally designated accommodations, Bathrooms, but somehow progressives don't have the same degree of tolerance for those who are conservatives and don't agree with them.
Progressives say to conservatives that if they don't like being discriminated against by them to just accept that treatment, or go live somewhere else, just live with it, too bad, no tolerance for conservatives who don't share progressives ideologies.
Progressives sound very much like the little Chickie who once having said "Cheep, Cheep, Cheep , thinks that it has said everything there is to say on that subject, I don't think though that conservatives go along with the idea that progressives have the last word on anything.
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/1/2016 10:01:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/1/2016 2:27:48 AM, Lookingatissues wrote:
At 4/30/2016 3:58:14 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 4/30/2016 3:35:55 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
There must be places in America where you could go and live which are extremely conservative. The Amish come to mind. Other than that, you're kind of stuffed really, because there's no way of changing it.
You posted,"There must be places in America where you could go and live which are extremely conservative. The Amish come to mind. Other than that, you're kind of stuffed really, because there's no way of changing it."
Progressives/ liberals, tout tolerance and demand that those who are different, for example, transgenders, gays, etc, have to be accepted and can't be made to conform to traditionally designated accommodations, Bathrooms, but somehow progressives don't have the same degree of tolerance for those who are conservatives and don't agree with them.
Progressives say to conservatives that if they don't like being discriminated against by them to just accept that treatment, or go live somewhere else, just live with it, too bad, no tolerance for conservatives who don't share progressives ideologies.
Progressives sound very much like the little Chickie who once having said "Cheep, Cheep, Cheep , thinks that it has said everything there is to say on that subject, I don't think though that conservatives go along with the idea that progressives have the last word on anything.

Well, I didn't say you had to, just that you could if it would make you happier. Just being helpful, since you can't really restrict other people's rights because it makes you feel better. Like many things in life, you just have to like it or lump it.
Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
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5/9/2016 3:02:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:10:34 PM, Daedal wrote:
" That's a great idea. Why not copy the Iranians and have a Morality Police"
I understand the substance of your question to be "... Why not.... have a Morality Police ."
Daedal wrote:
" That's a great idea. Why not copy the Iranians and have a Morality Police"
lookingattheissues reply....I understand the substance of your question to be "... Why not.... have a Morality Police ."
I would ask you this If you are dissatisfied with the laws established by the governors of the society that you of your own volition reside in, why don't you remove yourself from that society and go live in a society that you feel more in tune with where ever that nation might be. E
A nation cannot long survive as a civil society without laws that restrict the conduct of its citizens.
is Religion, a agreed upon set of laws, the base of Common Law
"...Wood cites Woolston's case;.... Blackstone that and Hale; and Ld. Mansfield volunteers his own ipse dixit. And who now can question but that the whole Bible and Testament are a part of the Common law? And that Connecticut, in her blue laws, laying it down as a principle that the laws of god should be the laws of their land..."
"Through the case of United States Fidelity and Guaranty Co. v. Guenther, the Supreme Court states that: 'Law, in its generic sense, is a body of rules of action or conduct prescribed by controlling authority, and having binding legal force.' "
"Through the case of United States Fidelity and Guaranty Co. v. Guenther, the Supreme Court states that: 'Law, in its generic sense, is a body of rules of action or conduct prescribed by controlling authority, and having binding legal force.' "
".....There is a purposeful and strong connection between law and that society's morality...."
Source...Study.com
American Law: History & Origins from English Common Law
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/9/2016 10:29:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 3:02:14 AM, Lookingatissues wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:10:34 PM, Daedal wrote:
" That's a great idea. Why not copy the Iranians and have a Morality Police"
I understand the substance of your question to be "... Why not.... have a Morality Police ."
Daedal wrote:
" That's a great idea. Why not copy the Iranians and have a Morality Police"
lookingattheissues reply....I understand the substance of your question to be "... Why not.... have a Morality Police ."
I would ask you this If you are dissatisfied with the laws established by the governors of the society that you of your own volition reside in, why don't you remove yourself from that society and go live in a society that you feel more in tune with where ever that nation might be. E
A nation cannot long survive as a civil society without laws that restrict the conduct of its citizens.
is Religion, a agreed upon set of laws, the base of Common Law
"...Wood cites Woolston's case;.... Blackstone that and Hale; and Ld. Mansfield volunteers his own ipse dixit. And who now can question but that the whole Bible and Testament are a part of the Common law? And that Connecticut, in her blue laws, laying it down as a principle that the laws of god should be the laws of their land..."
"Through the case of United States Fidelity and Guaranty Co. v. Guenther, the Supreme Court states that: 'Law, in its generic sense, is a body of rules of action or conduct prescribed by controlling authority, and having binding legal force.' "
"Through the case of United States Fidelity and Guaranty Co. v. Guenther, the Supreme Court states that: 'Law, in its generic sense, is a body of rules of action or conduct prescribed by controlling authority, and having binding legal force.' "
".....There is a purposeful and strong connection between law and that society's morality...."
Source...Study.com
American Law: History & Origins from English Common Law

I don't really get your post, I'm afraid. The OP seemed to be implying the introduction of different standards of conduct, different from current laws, which would require some new laws to be passed and enforced. If that's not the case then I misunderstood. I then mentioned the situation in Iran and how they enforce their standards. It was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
Rightreform
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5/12/2016 4:49:54 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/9/2016 1:25:02 PM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:
I still have no clue what this thread is about :P

They are saying Americans like you and I do not have moral values. This whole discussion is brushing with broad strokes. They hold to an idea that the world in the past was better than it is now, I can't argue that point because this whole discussion has a tribal warfare. If I take aside I do choose the side of upholding good conduct in society, I want to protect my kids. We do have this society people just need to speak up when they see things that are clearly wrong. The government and officials can not do everything for us.
Emmarie
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5/14/2016 2:28:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:49:54 PM, Rightreform wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:25:02 PM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:
I still have no clue what this thread is about :P

They are saying Americans like you and I do not have moral values. This whole discussion is brushing with broad strokes. They hold to an idea that the world in the past was better than it is now, I can't argue that point because this whole discussion has a tribal warfare. If I take aside I do choose the side of upholding good conduct in society, I want to protect my kids. We do have this society people just need to speak up when they see things that are clearly wrong. The government and officials can not do everything for us.
I will accept your request when I see more of your posts. I just want to be sure you are a real member. I have a person in face to face life who has stalked me online, so I'm cautious. I apologize for posting here, but there was no way to send a message or post to your profile.
Rightreform
Posts: 190
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5/14/2016 7:02:56 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 2:28:28 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:49:54 PM, Rightreform wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:25:02 PM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:
I still have no clue what this thread is about :P

They are saying Americans like you and I do not have moral values. This whole discussion is brushing with broad strokes. They hold to an idea that the world in the past was better than it is now, I can't argue that point because this whole discussion has a tribal warfare. If I take aside I do choose the side of upholding good conduct in society, I want to protect my kids. We do have this society people just need to speak up when they see things that are clearly wrong. The government and officials can not do everything for us.
I will accept your request when I see more of your posts. I just want to be sure you are a real member. I have a person in face to face life who has stalked me online, so I'm cautious. I apologize for posting here, but there was no way to send a message or post to your profile.

The best way to get to know someone is by disagreeing. I look forward to challenging you in the future, but I have seen your arguments your very good. In order to argue with you I will need to do my research. Meanwhile I will try to chase you on the forums and see if I could keep up with you. It's true you should be careful. I'm not here to bother anyone I'm just here for a little competitive debate, I'm not even asserting my ideas I will pick any side to fight for. Our Society needs to learn how speak up, especially in the judicial system. I will not be a ward of the state again which is what happens when you hire an attorney, I've learned a lot through the Families Civil Liberties Union. I have to fight for my son and give him a good role model.