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Understanding Ourselves In Relation to Others

YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?
Tsar of DDO
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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5/15/2016 3:41:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Satisfy the groups which perceive themselves as being under attack.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
roun12
Posts: 177
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5/15/2016 3:52:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

You'd probably have to alter the psychology of humans. Humans are naturally tuned to use the emotional part of their brains because the rational part has only fairly recently developed. In the future the rational part of the brain might become the more dominant part of the brain, but for now emotion will affect almost all the decisions people make.
"No, I disagree. 'R' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why they call it MURDER, not Muckduck." - Dwight

"Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." - George Carlin
roun12
Posts: 177
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5/15/2016 3:53:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:41:04 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Satisfy the groups which perceive themselves as being under attack.

But groups like these are almost never satisfied. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.
"No, I disagree. 'R' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why they call it MURDER, not Muckduck." - Dwight

"Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." - George Carlin
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.
slo1
Posts: 4,354
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5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 9:23:11 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.

You are a somewhat regular contributor to various things, and I often wonder if it would ever occasion you to produce a post that is neither inflammatory, nor off topic.

I get that you like to call other people out because it makes you feel important, but frankly no one cares. You sound like a grown up version of Holden Caulfield shouting "PHONY!" all the time, which does nothing other than make you look tasteless.

There is literally no person on this site who cares that you think some people are hypocrites, or that you don't like other people. Either contribute substance (hint: substance means "engaging with the ideas" and NOT "attacking people who posit them"), of fvck off.

And before you respond with your predictable "oh you're such a hypocrite" or whatever other bullsh!t name-calling you want to engage in, realize that to the extent that that's all you have to offer, you're a worthless member.

If discussing ideas is over your head, then this site is not the place for you.
Tsar of DDO
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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5/15/2016 9:24:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:41:04 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Satisfy the groups which perceive themselves as being under attack.

Real satisfaction or pretend? For example society can acknowledge an issue bt may not make the necessary changes to rectify the issue.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 9:26:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

I don't think that would even touch the issue. Political correctness doesn't categorize people or fracture them into unique in-groups and out-groups; that's what progressive liberalism does.
Tsar of DDO
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/15/2016 9:29:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
This is usually how cults work as well. They form a greater bond by preaching of some outside threat that is put to get them all. For Jim Jones it was a nuclear war, for Scientologists it's Thetans or something.

It's one of the reasons that I believe conservatives use Islamic extremists to replicate that feeling, while liberals may use Global warming.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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5/15/2016 9:31:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
One problem, though, is that people will continue to find new ways to nationalise themselves; and then, the newly created "nation" will demand accommodation.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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5/15/2016 9:34:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 9:31:00 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
One problem, though, is that people will continue to find new ways to nationalise themselves; and then, the newly created "nation" will demand accommodation.

Furthermore, the new nation will begin railing against the privilege of and oppression by everybody else, who are shocked by the creation of this new group and require some time (perhaps as much time as several decades) to accept the new nation.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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5/15/2016 9:50:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
How do we break this cycle?
Small societies (i.e. here) can (largely) get rid of it through self-constraint & awareness. sometimes.

it won't change at large. tribalism is a fundamental characteristic of man (and nearly every other animal). but one can avoid making it worse... there's a reason I'm an ethno-nationalist. don't feed the fire!
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
slo1
Posts: 4,354
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5/15/2016 10:24:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 9:23:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.

You are a somewhat regular contributor to various things, and I often wonder if it would ever occasion you to produce a post that is neither inflammatory, nor off topic.

I get that you like to call other people out because it makes you feel important, but frankly no one cares. You sound like a grown up version of Holden Caulfield shouting "PHONY!" all the time, which does nothing other than make you look tasteless.

There is literally no person on this site who cares that you think some people are hypocrites, or that you don't like other people. Either contribute substance (hint: substance means "engaging with the ideas" and NOT "attacking people who posit them"), of fvck off.

And before you respond with your predictable "oh you're such a hypocrite" or whatever other bullsh!t name-calling you want to engage in, realize that to the extent that that's all you have to offer, you're a worthless member.

If discussing ideas is over your head, then this site is not the place for you.

I guess I offended you because I am in your "Out" group. That must be rough on you.

I'm just tried of all the anti pc bs which has become its own pile of bs.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 10:32:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 10:24:32 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 9:23:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.

You are a somewhat regular contributor to various things, and I often wonder if it would ever occasion you to produce a post that is neither inflammatory, nor off topic.

I get that you like to call other people out because it makes you feel important, but frankly no one cares. You sound like a grown up version of Holden Caulfield shouting "PHONY!" all the time, which does nothing other than make you look tasteless.

There is literally no person on this site who cares that you think some people are hypocrites, or that you don't like other people. Either contribute substance (hint: substance means "engaging with the ideas" and NOT "attacking people who posit them"), of fvck off.

And before you respond with your predictable "oh you're such a hypocrite" or whatever other bullsh!t name-calling you want to engage in, realize that to the extent that that's all you have to offer, you're a worthless member.

If discussing ideas is over your head, then this site is not the place for you.

I guess I offended you because I am in your "Out" group. That must be rough on you.

I'm just tried of all the anti pc bs which has become its own pile of bs.

It's not so much that you offended me, as I am tired of seeing your constant and predictable bullsh!t in virtually every post you make.

Talk about the ideas, and leave people out of it. If that's something you can't do, then you should consider finding another place to post... like the comment section on Youtube, because that is on par with the quality of contributions you have been historically making.

It's certainly possible that you're capable of more than that, but of late I have seen nothing like that.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 10:33:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 9:50:56 PM, someloser wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
How do we break this cycle?
Small societies (i.e. here) can (largely) get rid of it through self-constraint & awareness. sometimes.

it won't change at large. tribalism is a fundamental characteristic of man (and nearly every other animal). but one can avoid making it worse... there's a reason I'm an ethno-nationalist. don't feed the fire!

Why are you an ethno nationalist?
Tsar of DDO
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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5/15/2016 10:54:30 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 10:33:47 PM, YYW wrote:
Why are you an ethno nationalist?

Essentially tribalism. More particularly, ethnicity/shared heritage is one of the strongest natural dividers of humanity... for historical, cultural, and genetic reasons.

The Soviet Union was divided along ethnic lines for a very good reason.

Highly multi-ethnic states are either:

- necessarily structurally unsustainable (South Africa, Yugoslavia), and typically arbitrary (US, Australia)
- ethno-pluralist (in the de Benoist sense of the term, think hapsburg empire), in which case they are de facto coalitions of individual ethno-states.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
slo1
Posts: 4,354
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5/15/2016 11:04:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 10:32:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 10:24:32 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 9:23:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.

You are a somewhat regular contributor to various things, and I often wonder if it would ever occasion you to produce a post that is neither inflammatory, nor off topic.

I get that you like to call other people out because it makes you feel important, but frankly no one cares. You sound like a grown up version of Holden Caulfield shouting "PHONY!" all the time, which does nothing other than make you look tasteless.

There is literally no person on this site who cares that you think some people are hypocrites, or that you don't like other people. Either contribute substance (hint: substance means "engaging with the ideas" and NOT "attacking people who posit them"), of fvck off.

And before you respond with your predictable "oh you're such a hypocrite" or whatever other bullsh!t name-calling you want to engage in, realize that to the extent that that's all you have to offer, you're a worthless member.

If discussing ideas is over your head, then this site is not the place for you.

I guess I offended you because I am in your "Out" group. That must be rough on you.

I'm just tried of all the anti pc bs which has become its own pile of bs.

It's not so much that you offended me, as I am tired of seeing your constant and predictable bullsh!t in virtually every post you make.

Talk about the ideas, and leave people out of it. If that's something you can't do, then you should consider finding another place to post... like the comment section on Youtube, because that is on par with the quality of contributions you have been historically making.

It's certainly possible that you're capable of more than that, but of late I have seen nothing like that.

Well your reaction was largely emotional, ironically when I was challenging GreyParrot and not you.

Of course in your emotional state you were not able to recognize that or you agree with the ridiculous notion that pc exacerbates the formation of in and out groups when in its ideal form it seeks to eliminate in and out groups.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 11:05:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 10:54:30 PM, someloser wrote:
At 5/15/2016 10:33:47 PM, YYW wrote:
Why are you an ethno nationalist?

Essentially tribalism. More particularly, ethnicity/shared heritage is one of the strongest natural dividers of humanity... for historical, cultural, and genetic reasons.

The Soviet Union was divided along ethnic lines for a very good reason.

Highly multi-ethnic states are either:

- necessarily structurally unsustainable (South Africa, Yugoslavia), and typically arbitrary (US, Australia)
- ethno-pluralist (in the de Benoist sense of the term, think hapsburg empire), in which case they are de facto coalitions of individual ethno-states.

So it is your view, then, that any state formed on the basis of anything other than ethnicity is necessarily arbitrary?
Tsar of DDO
slo1
Posts: 4,354
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5/15/2016 11:06:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Not 9nly that YYW, I gave you the best post you will get on this topic. How will you break your cycle of demeaning and airs of superiority over those you perceive are in your out group.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 11:14:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 11:04:25 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 10:32:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 10:24:32 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 9:23:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.

You are a somewhat regular contributor to various things, and I often wonder if it would ever occasion you to produce a post that is neither inflammatory, nor off topic.

I get that you like to call other people out because it makes you feel important, but frankly no one cares. You sound like a grown up version of Holden Caulfield shouting "PHONY!" all the time, which does nothing other than make you look tasteless.

There is literally no person on this site who cares that you think some people are hypocrites, or that you don't like other people. Either contribute substance (hint: substance means "engaging with the ideas" and NOT "attacking people who posit them"), of fvck off.

And before you respond with your predictable "oh you're such a hypocrite" or whatever other bullsh!t name-calling you want to engage in, realize that to the extent that that's all you have to offer, you're a worthless member.

If discussing ideas is over your head, then this site is not the place for you.

I guess I offended you because I am in your "Out" group. That must be rough on you.

I'm just tried of all the anti pc bs which has become its own pile of bs.

It's not so much that you offended me, as I am tired of seeing your constant and predictable bullsh!t in virtually every post you make.

Talk about the ideas, and leave people out of it. If that's something you can't do, then you should consider finding another place to post... like the comment section on Youtube, because that is on par with the quality of contributions you have been historically making.

It's certainly possible that you're capable of more than that, but of late I have seen nothing like that.

Well your reaction was largely emotional, ironically when I was challenging GreyParrot and not you.

Of course in your emotional state you were not able to recognize that or you agree with the ridiculous notion that pc exacerbates the formation of in and out groups when in its ideal form it seeks to eliminate in and out groups.

You're incompetent to perceive what level of emotion my tone suggests, which is certainly not unique to you, but more due to the difficulty of communicating meaning through text rather than verbalization. If you think you have the ability to make me angry, then think again.

You do not. More or less, all you can do is be a frustrating pain in the @ss, which you're quite skilled at, and even that you're only skilled at by chance. It's not as if you have innate gifts or talents in that area.

But once again, when and if you have anything worthwhile to say, do speak up. But otherwise, I think the comments section on Youtube is a place more conducive to your level of comprehension and discourse.

No person cares that you think you have the ability to call others out. You come across as a fool, because that's all a fool does... he opens his mouth (or, in this instance, types some words) that reveal a lack of substance between his ears.

Substance means contributing to the discussion of the ideas articulated in the OP, and NOT simply saying "you're emotional" this or "you're a hypocrite" that. It looks terrible. Does this bother you? If it does, then reform. But there is a reason why most people simply ignore you. You're irrelevant, and increasingly a worthless member because you bring nothing to the table.

You have no skills or expertise. Your perspective is anything but unique. You're not clever. You're not even friendly. So, why are you here? What possible reason could you possibly log on, for?

You don't debate, or, in those few instances that you have, they're terrible. You clearly show no interest in improvement. You offer no substance in the forums. Ever. You clearly show no interest in improvement. No one talks to you, hardly ever, because no one likes you.

Why are you here? It seems like a totally irrational thing that you even log on, to a place, online, where you enter volitionally, that no one even likes you, and you do nothing other than make snide remarks to and about others. It's pitiful.

What friends do you have here? None? Not a single one?

Please... reform. For your own sake, and for the sake of this community. You don't have to be a worthless member, but so long as THIS is all you have to offer, you are.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/15/2016 11:15:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 11:06:15 PM, slo1 wrote:
Not 9nly that YYW, I gave you the best post you will get on this topic. How will you break your cycle of demeaning and airs of superiority over those you perceive are in your out group.

Please, give me the best post here. Stop being stupid, and do something useful, something that contributes. Not challenging. Just talk about the ideas in the op, and keep on topic.

Is that so challenging? I think not. Plenty of people do it without difficulty. Children. If children can do it, then surely you can as well.
Tsar of DDO
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/15/2016 11:33:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?
https://www.youtube.com...
slo1
Posts: 4,354
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5/15/2016 11:47:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 11:14:05 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 11:04:25 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 10:32:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 10:24:32 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 9:23:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:57:52 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:07:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

Eliminate PC discourse that fractures society into diverse groups with no unity.

It is sad that you think that is a function of PC-ness. You sound like YYW who while in the OP recognizes all humans participate in in and out group fabrications affecting judgement and the way we act towards each other, but in previous rants goes on how evil SJW's for categorizing other people.

You are a somewhat regular contributor to various things, and I often wonder if it would ever occasion you to produce a post that is neither inflammatory, nor off topic.

I get that you like to call other people out because it makes you feel important, but frankly no one cares. You sound like a grown up version of Holden Caulfield shouting "PHONY!" all the time, which does nothing other than make you look tasteless.

There is literally no person on this site who cares that you think some people are hypocrites, or that you don't like other people. Either contribute substance (hint: substance means "engaging with the ideas" and NOT "attacking people who posit them"), of fvck off.

And before you respond with your predictable "oh you're such a hypocrite" or whatever other bullsh!t name-calling you want to engage in, realize that to the extent that that's all you have to offer, you're a worthless member.

If discussing ideas is over your head, then this site is not the place for you.

I guess I offended you because I am in your "Out" group. That must be rough on you.

I'm just tried of all the anti pc bs which has become its own pile of bs.

It's not so much that you offended me, as I am tired of seeing your constant and predictable bullsh!t in virtually every post you make.

Talk about the ideas, and leave people out of it. If that's something you can't do, then you should consider finding another place to post... like the comment section on Youtube, because that is on par with the quality of contributions you have been historically making.

It's certainly possible that you're capable of more than that, but of late I have seen nothing like that.

Well your reaction was largely emotional, ironically when I was challenging GreyParrot and not you.

Of course in your emotional state you were not able to recognize that or you agree with the ridiculous notion that pc exacerbates the formation of in and out groups when in its ideal form it seeks to eliminate in and out groups.

You're incompetent to perceive what level of emotion my tone suggests, which is certainly not unique to you, but more due to the difficulty of communicating meaning through text rather than verbalization. If you think you have the ability to make me angry, then think again.

You do not. More or less, all you can do is be a frustrating pain in the @ss, which you're quite skilled at, and even that you're only skilled at by chance. It's not as if you have innate gifts or talents in that area.

But once again, when and if you have anything worthwhile to say, do speak up. But otherwise, I think the comments section on Youtube is a place more conducive to your level of comprehension and discourse.

No person cares that you think you have the ability to call others out. You come across as a fool, because that's all a fool does... he opens his mouth (or, in this instance, types some words) that reveal a lack of substance between his ears.

Substance means contributing to the discussion of the ideas articulated in the OP, and NOT simply saying "you're emotional" this or "you're a hypocrite" that. It looks terrible. Does this bother you? If it does, then reform. But there is a reason why most people simply ignore you. You're irrelevant, and increasingly a worthless member because you bring nothing to the table.

You have no skills or expertise. Your perspective is anything but unique. You're not clever. You're not even friendly. So, why are you here? What possible reason could you possibly log on, for?

You don't debate, or, in those few instances that you have, they're terrible. You clearly show no interest in improvement. You offer no substance in the forums. Ever. You clearly show no interest in improvement. No one talks to you, hardly ever, because no one likes you.

Why are you here? It seems like a totally irrational thing that you even log on, to a place, online, where you enter volitionally, that no one even likes you, and you do nothing other than make snide remarks to and about others. It's pitiful.

What friends do you have here? None? Not a single one?

Please... reform. For your own sake, and for the sake of this community. You don't have to be a worthless member, but so long as THIS is all you have to offer, you are.

Lol, you feel better now? If that ain't the in group painting the out group I don't what it is. What are you going to do to break the cycle YWW?
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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5/16/2016 12:43:20 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

So... how do we break the cycle?
Tsar of DDO
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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5/16/2016 1:38:38 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 11:05:07 PM, YYW wrote:
So it is your view, then, that any state formed on the basis of anything other than ethnicity is necessarily arbitrary?

No, though multi-ethnic ones tend to be. The US is probably the best example.

A state can be formed on the basis of certain things over ethnicity. Linguistic differences (Quebec), economic system (North v South Korea), religious differences (Pakistan), etc. Not that such organizations tend to survive ethnic heterogeneity very well (Yugoslavia).
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Rightreform
Posts: 190
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5/16/2016 3:51:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 12:43:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:
For many months now, we've had very vibrant discussions in the forums which have revolved around challenging issues in our society. Many of those issues tend to be related to race or gender, or, at least those seem to the ones that get the most attention.

One of the things that's very interesting which modern psychological and neurological studies tell us is how good our brains are at defining "in" groups and "out" groups. That sense and ability becomes heightened when we feel like we're under threat, and our "in groups" become more rigidly defined, and we make excuses for those who are like us perhaps even when we shouldn't, and while those who are in the "out group" tends to become more acutely distanced from us, and we overlook even redeeming qualities they hold.

Identifying as a member of a group under threat, then, tends to cause in our psychological states almost a kind of neurosis. Emotion takes over, while reason and empathy fall by the way side. I don't think this is unique to DDO, either. It's happening in the society and culture as we speak, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

How do we break this cycle?

So... how do we break the cycle?

In a Debate we must pick a side so we do not appear confused on a subject. Supporting a claim alone puts us in the in-group.
Identifying the out-group helps us understand the other side better in the discussion. I really do not think this is how you meant it though. It is a good strategy to win a debate to be flexible on your issues while pinning the other person down.
Perhaps this is the reason why you do not like critical theorist, or who you assume come from the school Frankfurt, whom are known for having nothing to protect but attacking an establishment. It has been said that they create in and out groups.

Personally I have nothing against you, I am sure we agree on many things, but I would like to understand you better. If we can not agree lets find out why we disagree, and maybe we can learn from each other and change our own minds. After any debate I can be in your group again it is nothing personal.
In this scenario of the study that you present we have to treat it with most studies for understanding our world they are limited and prone to misinterpretation, and used to promote certain idea's. The Domain: the type of cases for which the rule is valid' is an important factor to keep in mind., and then we must consider the area of application: where it would not apply in all the domain cases. I can think of a few examples where the study is ineffective. for those that would call us neuro-typical, the people who are known for being nonconformist. Many look at them like they are disabled, but it is a mere difference in thinking. These People are Aspie's, I'm sure you know of them. They are easy to love, and are highly intelligent. Yet your study did not include them. Many competitive debaters who like to argue pro or con would be more capable of not choosing sides on a personal level.
Rightreform
Posts: 190
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5/16/2016 4:06:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
If anyone wants to break the cycle the best source that I found is this site
I'm sure it only applies to those who want to read it, but it helps others to respect the outgroups and not to look down there nose at others from a self righteous standpoint, but to play on an even field where others will be more motivated to listen to you.
http://founders.org...