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Argument from poor design

Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

Evolution produces poor results too....
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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5/28/2016 8:14:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Maybe god thinks perfection is boring.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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5/29/2016 5:57:52 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.

Death entered the world because of the sins of our first parents. Because of them, we've been born into a disinherited family and the consequences that come with it. It's our fault, not our creator's.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/29/2016 7:01:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 5:57:52 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.

Death entered the world because of the sins of our first parents. Because of them, we've been born into a disinherited family and the consequences that come with it. It's our fault, not our creator's.

I'm sorry, that's just plain sick. That you kill children because of their ancient ancesters is beyond the pale. You should be ashamed of yourself, and of your religion.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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5/29/2016 7:10:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 7:01:48 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:57:52 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.

Death entered the world because of the sins of our first parents. Because of them, we've been born into a disinherited family and the consequences that come with it. It's our fault, not our creator's.

I'm sorry, that's just plain sick. That you kill children because of their ancient ancesters is beyond the pale. You should be ashamed of yourself, and of your religion.

The fact that our bodies are corrupted is because we inherited it from our first parents. It's their fault, not God's.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/29/2016 7:34:43 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 7:10:25 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 7:01:48 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:57:52 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.

Death entered the world because of the sins of our first parents. Because of them, we've been born into a disinherited family and the consequences that come with it. It's our fault, not our creator's.

I'm sorry, that's just plain sick. That you kill children because of their ancient ancesters is beyond the pale. You should be ashamed of yourself, and of your religion.


The fact that our bodies are corrupted is because we inherited it from our first parents. It's their fault, not God's.

I would spit on you and your religion.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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5/29/2016 8:22:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 7:34:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 7:10:25 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 7:01:48 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:57:52 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.

Death entered the world because of the sins of our first parents. Because of them, we've been born into a disinherited family and the consequences that come with it. It's our fault, not our creator's.

I'm sorry, that's just plain sick. That you kill children because of their ancient ancesters is beyond the pale. You should be ashamed of yourself, and of your religion.


The fact that our bodies are corrupted is because we inherited it from our first parents. It's their fault, not God's.

I would spit on you and your religion.

Well that's not very nice. But, since our creator has given us the gift of free will, you certainly could. Also, it seems congratulations are in order. Because of your thread, this is my 2000th post! Thanks for the opportunity!
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Daedal
Posts: 157
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5/29/2016 8:30:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/29/2016 8:22:38 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 7:34:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 7:10:25 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 7:01:48 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 5:57:52 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:49:43 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 3:37:01 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/29/2016 2:44:58 PM, Daedal wrote:
At 5/29/2016 1:56:09 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 5/28/2016 1:42:12 PM, Daedal wrote:
Interesting link here:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Extract:

The argument from poor design, also known as the dysteleological argument, is an argument against the existence of a creator God based on the following reasoning:

An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator God would create organisms that have optimal design.
Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.


Evolution produces poor results too....

Why would that type of creator have to do that? I would suggest that optimal design doesn't follow necessarily.

Why would a creator make something so imperfect?

First, any burden of proof would be on the one making the positive claim. The OP implied such a creator would definitely do something, but failed to offer any reason to believe as much.

But to give you a possible answer... because the creator saw the value of giving creation the gift of free will. This free will made it possible for us to disobey and receive consequences associated with our disobedience.

Many people didn't disobey but got cancer or a thousand other lousy diseases. Many died as infants before they had a chance to disobey.

Death entered the world because of the sins of our first parents. Because of them, we've been born into a disinherited family and the consequences that come with it. It's our fault, not our creator's.

I'm sorry, that's just plain sick. That you kill children because of their ancient ancesters is beyond the pale. You should be ashamed of yourself, and of your religion.


The fact that our bodies are corrupted is because we inherited it from our first parents. It's their fault, not God's.

I would spit on you and your religion.

Well that's not very nice. But, since our creator has given us the gift of free will, you certainly could. Also, it seems congratulations are in order. Because of your thread, this is my 2000th post! Thanks for the opportunity!

I certainly would, and you would deserve it. That would be 2000 dumps, then.