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To everyone who's anti-vaccine...

tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
...and hasn't vaccinated their child(ren) because of that:

https://www.youtube.com...

Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/4/2016 10:40:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
...and hasn't vaccinated their child(ren) because of that:

https://www.youtube.com...

Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.

(Patiently waits for flame war)
Meh!
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/4/2016 12:34:10 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 11:01:05 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's stupid to be pro vaccine. Some vaccines aren't even FDA approved yet.

Doctors and other medical professionals are generally pro-vaccine. Doctors are generally smarter than your average person, so I'm skeptical that pro-vaccine is "stupid".
Meh!
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 375
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6/4/2016 3:27:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
...and hasn't vaccinated their child(ren) because of that:

https://www.youtube.com...

Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.

If I were a parent, I would do a bit of research on each vaccine before doing it. Although I'm 95% confident that there is nothing wrong with any vaccine administered at a hospital
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

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Wylted
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6/4/2016 4:45:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 12:34:10 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/4/2016 11:01:05 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's stupid to be pro vaccine. Some vaccines aren't even FDA approved yet.

Doctors and other medical professionals are generally pro-vaccine. Doctors are generally smarter than your average person, so I'm skeptical that pro-vaccine is "stupid".

No doctors are not pro vaccine. They do not reccomend every possible vaccine and they also do not reccomend the ones deemed useless or not approved by the FDA.
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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6/4/2016 4:52:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 3:27:00 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:

That's a reasonable position, I suppose.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
SeventhProfessor
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6/4/2016 7:08:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
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bballcrook21
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6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
...and hasn't vaccinated their child(ren) because of that:

https://www.youtube.com...

Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.

I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/4/2016 11:52:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 4:45:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/4/2016 12:34:10 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/4/2016 11:01:05 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's stupid to be pro vaccine. Some vaccines aren't even FDA approved yet.

Doctors and other medical professionals are generally pro-vaccine. Doctors are generally smarter than your average person, so I'm skeptical that pro-vaccine is "stupid".

No doctors are not pro vaccine. They do not reccomend every possible vaccine and they also do not reccomend the ones deemed useless or not approved by the FDA.

Pro-Vaccine: In support of giving people relevant vaccines.

Anti-Vaccine: Against any vaccines at all.

Fairly certain Doctors are Pro-Vaccine.
Meh!
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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6/5/2016 3:07:01 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.

The parents are depriving their kids of the right to a vaccine. I don't care if the *parents* get vaccinated.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/5/2016 3:32:33 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 3:07:01 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.

The parents are depriving their kids of the right to a vaccine. I don't care if the *parents* get vaccinated.

They don't have the right to be vaccinated so much as they have the right to purchase a vaccine. They are not depriving the child to any right as they are the one's paying for it, although I would say that not vaccinating your kids should get you sued for some sort of attempt to harm the child.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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6/5/2016 3:36:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 3:32:33 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:07:01 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.

The parents are depriving their kids of the right to a vaccine. I don't care if the *parents* get vaccinated.

They don't have the right to be vaccinated so much as they have the right to purchase a vaccine. They are not depriving the child to any right as they are the one's paying for it, although I would say that not vaccinating your kids should get you sued for some sort of attempt to harm the child.

Parent's don't have the right not to purchase food for their child. Parent's don't have the right to not purchase a doctor's office visit when their child is sick. When parents choose to have children, they waive their rights to not purchase these things and agree to take on a responsibility of care to their children. Why is purchasing a vaccine to protect your child from, say, pertussis, much different?
Live Long and Prosper

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bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/5/2016 3:38:11 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 3:36:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:32:33 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:07:01 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.

The parents are depriving their kids of the right to a vaccine. I don't care if the *parents* get vaccinated.

They don't have the right to be vaccinated so much as they have the right to purchase a vaccine. They are not depriving the child to any right as they are the one's paying for it, although I would say that not vaccinating your kids should get you sued for some sort of attempt to harm the child.

Parent's don't have the right not to purchase food for their child. Parent's don't have the right to not purchase a doctor's office visit when their child is sick. When parents choose to have children, they waive their rights to not purchase these things and agree to take on a responsibility of care to their children. Why is purchasing a vaccine to protect your child from, say, pertussis, much different?

I never said the opposite. I'm arguing that a right to a vaccine is something owed to you rather than something that you can purchase. If you are a parent, you are legally and morally responsible for your child, and should not have children if you cannot afford food or healthcare for them.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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6/5/2016 3:39:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 3:38:11 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:36:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:32:33 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:07:01 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.

The parents are depriving their kids of the right to a vaccine. I don't care if the *parents* get vaccinated.

They don't have the right to be vaccinated so much as they have the right to purchase a vaccine. They are not depriving the child to any right as they are the one's paying for it, although I would say that not vaccinating your kids should get you sued for some sort of attempt to harm the child.

Parent's don't have the right not to purchase food for their child. Parent's don't have the right to not purchase a doctor's office visit when their child is sick. When parents choose to have children, they waive their rights to not purchase these things and agree to take on a responsibility of care to their children. Why is purchasing a vaccine to protect your child from, say, pertussis, much different?

I never said the opposite. I'm arguing that a right to a vaccine is something owed to you rather than something that you can purchase. If you are a parent, you are legally and morally responsible for your child, and should not have children if you cannot afford food or healthcare for them.

Okies.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

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Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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6/5/2016 3:59:43 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.

While I can somehow understand being initially skeptical of vaccines, I can guarantee anyone who does real research into each vaccine they're getting will be OK with it 99% of the time.

Let's be real, if you think the polio vaccine is harmful, then you're severely misinformed, and no you haven't done your homework.
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UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,682
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6/5/2016 9:19:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 10:40:50 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
...and hasn't vaccinated their child(ren) because of that:

https://www.youtube.com...

Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.

(Patiently waits for flame war)

Habbibi, that's my line.
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,646
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6/6/2016 8:31:10 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 10:30:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
...and hasn't vaccinated their child(ren) because of that:

https://www.youtube.com...

Seriously, enough with the nonsense. Do something that might save your child's life.

Well apparently they're more scared of their child having autism over dying from dangerous diseases...
bhakun
Posts: 231
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6/7/2016 12:28:38 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Should an employee at a restaurant be required to wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

I would like those who don't believe in mandatory vaccines to answer this.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
Midnight1131
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6/7/2016 1:05:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 12:28:38 AM, bhakun wrote:
Should an employee at a restaurant be required to wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

I would like those who don't believe in mandatory vaccines to answer this.

#1. The employee at the restaurant has a contract with his employer that he will provide his labour for work. This includes abiding by any regulations that business may or may not have. If he objects to those regulations he can quit the job. The idea is that he owns his own body and can refuse to do so by leaving the job.

The public does not have a contract with the government saying they will submit to being injected with vaccines through force, and if it's government mandated, there is nothing they can do about it. The idea is that the government owns your body and can forcibly inject substances into it.

#2. The employee is the one washing his own hands. Washing your hands does not do anything significant to your bodily functions and it is something you manage over yourself.

Not true with vaccines.

That was a terrible analogy on your part.
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bhakun
Posts: 231
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6/7/2016 1:07:47 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:05:39 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 6/7/2016 12:28:38 AM, bhakun wrote:
Should an employee at a restaurant be required to wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

I would like those who don't believe in mandatory vaccines to answer this.

#1. The employee at the restaurant has a contract with his employer that he will provide his labour for work. This includes abiding by any regulations that business may or may not have. If he objects to those regulations he can quit the job. The idea is that he owns his own body and can refuse to do so by leaving the job.

The public does not have a contract with the government saying they will submit to being injected with vaccines through force, and if it's government mandated, there is nothing they can do about it. The idea is that the government owns your body and can forcibly inject substances into it.

#2. The employee is the one washing his own hands. Washing your hands does not do anything significant to your bodily functions and it is something you manage over yourself.

Not true with vaccines.

That was a terrible analogy on your part.

Its more simple than that.

Washing your hands should be expected out of everyone working with food for the sake of public safety. The same applies to vaccines. I dont see how it has to do with contracts.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
Midnight1131
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6/7/2016 1:09:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:07:47 AM, bhakun wrote:
Its more simple than that.

No actually it isn't. This is precisely the problem, that people think it's this simple.

Washing your hands should be expected out of everyone working with food for the sake of public safety. The same applies to vaccines. I dont see how it has to do with contracts.

An employee can opt out of washing his hands by leaving his work at the private business. People cannot opt out of vaccines if they were mandated by the government, thereby setting precedence that they do not own their bodies.
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bhakun
Posts: 231
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6/7/2016 1:13:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:09:50 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 6/7/2016 1:07:47 AM, bhakun wrote:
Its more simple than that.

No actually it isn't. This is precisely the problem, that people think it's this simple.

Washing your hands should be expected out of everyone working with food for the sake of public safety. The same applies to vaccines. I dont see how it has to do with contracts.

An employee can opt out of washing his hands by leaving his work at the private business. People cannot opt out of vaccines if they were mandated by the government, thereby setting precedence that they do not own their bodies.
How is an employee accepting a contract that says he has to wash his hands significantly different from a citizen accepting a law that he has to have a certain vaccine?

>People cannot opt out of vaccines if they were mandated by the government
Yes, they can. They can leave the country.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/7/2016 1:14:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/5/2016 3:36:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:32:33 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/5/2016 3:07:01 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/4/2016 9:26:07 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I surely will vaccinate my kids and urge others to do the same. However, I won't levy legislation to force others to do the same, I simply will keep a distance away from them and make sure that they do not contact me with such, as if they do, they are getting sued.

The parents are depriving their kids of the right to a vaccine. I don't care if the *parents* get vaccinated.

They don't have the right to be vaccinated so much as they have the right to purchase a vaccine. They are not depriving the child to any right as they are the one's paying for it, although I would say that not vaccinating your kids should get you sued for some sort of attempt to harm the child.

Parent's don't have the right not to purchase food for their child. Parent's don't have the right to not purchase a doctor's office visit when their child is sick. When parents choose to have children, they waive their rights to not purchase these things and agree to take on a responsibility of care to their children. Why is purchasing a vaccine to protect your child from, say, pertussis, much different?

Neglect is a bit different than doing your research and finding out the HPV vaccine is not all it is cracked up to be. Parents should be allowed some discretion. What next, reauiring circumcisions because the health benefits outweigh the risks? Where do we stop? What about castration that has been proven to extend lifespan? Is it unethical to deprive your child of the ten extra years of life a castration gets you on average?

I draw the line right after neglect because there is an implied contractbto be the child's care giver, but where exactly do you draw the line on who gets to make healthcare decisions for another person's child?
Midnight1131
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6/7/2016 1:15:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:13:26 AM, bhakun wrote:
How is an employee accepting a contract that says he has to wash his hands significantly different from a citizen accepting a law that he has to have a certain vaccine?

Citizens can't opt out of laws.

>People cannot opt out of vaccines if they were mandated by the government
Yes, they can. They can leave the country.

Ahh, here we have the classic statist argument of "if you don't like it you can leave the country." This is implying that the state owns the country and it's citizens don't. That is just plain wrongful thinking.
#GaryJohnson2016
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/7/2016 1:16:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 12:28:38 AM, bhakun wrote:
Should an employee at a restaurant be required to wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

I would like those who don't believe in mandatory vaccines to answer this.

No they should not, but they should be responsible for Ny damage that causes when a lawsuit occurs
bhakun
Posts: 231
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6/7/2016 1:18:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:16:23 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/7/2016 12:28:38 AM, bhakun wrote:
Should an employee at a restaurant be required to wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

I would like those who don't believe in mandatory vaccines to answer this.

No they should not, but they should be responsible for Ny damage that causes when a lawsuit occurs

Ahh, I love this libertarian argument.

I'm sure the person that dies of some bacterial disease will be happy to know that his murderer is being sued.

I would just rather we prevent any death from occurring in the first place.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
bhakun
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6/7/2016 1:22:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:15:18 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 6/7/2016 1:13:26 AM, bhakun wrote:
How is an employee accepting a contract that says he has to wash his hands significantly different from a citizen accepting a law that he has to have a certain vaccine?

Citizens can't opt out of laws.

>People cannot opt out of vaccines if they were mandated by the government
Yes, they can. They can leave the country.

Ahh, here we have the classic statist argument of "if you don't like it you can leave the country." This is implying that the state owns the country and it's citizens don't. That is just plain wrongful thinking.
I never implied that. Its the citizens that vote in and give legitimacy to the state. Thats how a democracy works.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
Wylted
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6/7/2016 1:25:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/7/2016 1:18:50 AM, bhakun wrote:
At 6/7/2016 1:16:23 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/7/2016 12:28:38 AM, bhakun wrote:
Should an employee at a restaurant be required to wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom?

I would like those who don't believe in mandatory vaccines to answer this.

No they should not, but they should be responsible for Ny damage that causes when a lawsuit occurs

Ahh, I love this libertarian argument.

I'm sure the person that dies of some bacterial disease will be happy to know that his murderer is being sued.

I would just rather we prevent any death from occurring in the first place.

Lawsuits are more effective at preventing tragedies, while regulations actually shield businesses from responsibility if something goes wrong.

Would you not rather have a superior system that works instead of one that allows people to shield themselves from responsibility?