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Oral Contraceptives affect mate selection

zmikecuber
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6/9/2016 10:50:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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6/10/2016 2:32:59 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/9/2016 10:50:21 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

WHO sort of compares world statistics, so, I can't honestly say I agree with these numbers as they don't appear to include controlled medical aspects of birth. Much like women whom "give birth" in the natural wild don't publicize how frequentl they might visit a birthing center to observe the development of their fetus to predict how natural a "wild" birth might be.

And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.

Being a male, if I could take a pill and it renders me sterile for a controlled amount of time, do you honestly think that wouldn't affect whom I laid the pipe to? Seriously? My immediate standards would drop. I would know the consequences of my actions simply don't matter, and the next 24 hours presents me with new chances. While this might seem a frailty of my position, being male, I am not saddled with the consequences of such promiscuity without penalty of law. Women, on the other hand, enjoy such a privilege.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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6/10/2016 2:43:18 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 2:32:59 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 6/9/2016 10:50:21 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

WHO sort of compares world statistics, so, I can't honestly say I agree with these numbers as they don't appear to include controlled medical aspects of birth. Much like women whom "give birth" in the natural wild don't publicize how frequentl they might visit a birthing center to observe the development of their fetus to predict how natural a "wild" birth might be.

Fair enough.


And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.


Being a male, if I could take a pill and it renders me sterile for a controlled amount of time, do you honestly think that wouldn't affect whom I laid the pipe to? Seriously? My immediate standards would drop. I would know the consequences of my actions simply don't matter, and the next 24 hours presents me with new chances. While this might seem a frailty of my position, being male, I am not saddled with the consequences of such promiscuity without penalty of law. Women, on the other hand, enjoy such a privilege.

That's true. However, the above research is more about the hormonal changes that oral contraceptives induce on the women taking them.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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6/10/2016 3:03:06 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 2:43:18 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:32:59 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 6/9/2016 10:50:21 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

WHO sort of compares world statistics, so, I can't honestly say I agree with these numbers as they don't appear to include controlled medical aspects of birth. Much like women whom "give birth" in the natural wild don't publicize how frequentl they might visit a birthing center to observe the development of their fetus to predict how natural a "wild" birth might be.

Fair enough.


And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.


Being a male, if I could take a pill and it renders me sterile for a controlled amount of time, do you honestly think that wouldn't affect whom I laid the pipe to? Seriously? My immediate standards would drop. I would know the consequences of my actions simply don't matter, and the next 24 hours presents me with new chances. While this might seem a frailty of my position, being male, I am not saddled with the consequences of such promiscuity without penalty of law. Women, on the other hand, enjoy such a privilege.

That's true. However, the above research is more about the hormonal changes that oral contraceptives induce on the women taking them.

Does such a change impair their ability to find a rational decision?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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6/10/2016 3:03:50 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:03:06 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:43:18 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:32:59 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 6/9/2016 10:50:21 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

WHO sort of compares world statistics, so, I can't honestly say I agree with these numbers as they don't appear to include controlled medical aspects of birth. Much like women whom "give birth" in the natural wild don't publicize how frequentl they might visit a birthing center to observe the development of their fetus to predict how natural a "wild" birth might be.

Fair enough.


And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.


Being a male, if I could take a pill and it renders me sterile for a controlled amount of time, do you honestly think that wouldn't affect whom I laid the pipe to? Seriously? My immediate standards would drop. I would know the consequences of my actions simply don't matter, and the next 24 hours presents me with new chances. While this might seem a frailty of my position, being male, I am not saddled with the consequences of such promiscuity without penalty of law. Women, on the other hand, enjoy such a privilege.

That's true. However, the above research is more about the hormonal changes that oral contraceptives induce on the women taking them.


Does such a change impair their ability to find a rational decision?

Sexual attraction isn't rational though... you're sexually attracted to who you're sexually attracted to. It's not conscious.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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6/10/2016 3:04:24 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:03:06 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:43:18 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/10/2016 2:32:59 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 6/9/2016 10:50:21 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

WHO sort of compares world statistics, so, I can't honestly say I agree with these numbers as they don't appear to include controlled medical aspects of birth. Much like women whom "give birth" in the natural wild don't publicize how frequentl they might visit a birthing center to observe the development of their fetus to predict how natural a "wild" birth might be.

Fair enough.


And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.


Being a male, if I could take a pill and it renders me sterile for a controlled amount of time, do you honestly think that wouldn't affect whom I laid the pipe to? Seriously? My immediate standards would drop. I would know the consequences of my actions simply don't matter, and the next 24 hours presents me with new chances. While this might seem a frailty of my position, being male, I am not saddled with the consequences of such promiscuity without penalty of law. Women, on the other hand, enjoy such a privilege.

That's true. However, the above research is more about the hormonal changes that oral contraceptives induce on the women taking them.


Does such a change impair their ability to find a rational decision?

I mean yes, we can control what we do with our sexual attractions, but our sexual attractions themselves we don't have control over, and this is what oral contraceptives are argued to affect.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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6/10/2016 6:19:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I've been wading through these papers. Oral contraceptives seems to affect mate selection for the negative. I mean, duh, they affect womens hormones, and as any guy with a girlfriend knows, when a girl is on her period sometimes she acts differently. Sure, I'm blunt, but it's true.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

https://www2.psy.uq.edu.au...

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org...

http://www.drjoebio.com...

Also this study seems to correlate oral contraception with higher risks of suicide:

http://www.bmj.com...

This is an interesting paper about the cause of the rapid increase in divorce rates in the 1970s. (Coincidentally, the pill was legalized in 1960 and ten years later the divorce sky rocketed... perhaps not the sole cause, but considering how it affects hormones and mate selection, this could very well be a contributor):

http://www.nber.org...

Also, this research finds that initial sexual attraction between mates increases sexual satisfaction in a marriage and decreases marital instability. And as shown above, oral contraceptives affect mate selection.

https://public.psych.iastate.edu...

And just to make everyone really mad, I'm going to point out that women are supposedly 3x as likely to die from abortion as they are from childbirth according to WHO statistics, though I still have to get into the nitty gritty of that and download the data somewhere and open excel, but I'm too lazy now.

WHO sort of compares world statistics, so, I can't honestly say I agree with these numbers as they don't appear to include controlled medical aspects of birth. Much like women whom "give birth" in the natural wild don't publicize how frequentl they might visit a birthing center to observe the development of their fetus to predict how natural a "wild" birth might be.

Fair enough.


And feminism is supposed to free women and enable and empower them. Seems more like it's f*cking them over.


Being a male, if I could take a pill and it renders me sterile for a controlled amount of time, do you honestly think that wouldn't affect whom I laid the pipe to? Seriously? My immediate standards would drop. I would know the consequences of my actions simply don't matter, and the next 24 hours presents me with new chances. While this might seem a frailty of my position, being male, I am not saddled with the consequences of such promiscuity without penalty of law. Women, on the other hand, enjoy such a privilege.

That's true. However, the above research is more about the hormonal changes that oral contraceptives induce on the women taking them.


Does such a change impair their ability to find a rational decision?

I mean yes, we can control what we do with our sexual attractions, but our sexual attractions themselves we don't have control over, and this is what oral contraceptives are argued to affect.

Right. Sorry for the tardiness of the reply, but I wanted to touch on the social aspects of The Pill. You mentioned divorce rates sky rocketing, which is interesting. The Pill enables women to take sex partners without consequences. Suffice to say, if you are a husband, you don't want your wife having multiple sex partners, its a risk of pregnancy that lends to keeping a woman faithful... or at least the consequences of being pregnant and your mate leaving.

Excluding normalizing erratic cycles, for what reason would anyone want to take a pill that would render them sterile if not sexual liberation? I suggest the hormonal changes while important pale in comparison to what the Pill means for personal desire.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Janerover
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7/2/2016 5:35:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Excluding normalizing erratic cycles, for what reason would anyone want to take a pill that would render them sterile if not sexual liberation? I suggest the hormonal changes while important pale in comparison to what the Pill means for personal desire.

To answer your question:
1. hormonal acne
2. dysmenorrhea (painful periods)
3. iron deficiency anaemia (to reduce blood lost with periods)
4. polycystic ovarian syndrome

This is just to name a few.
FaustianJustice
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7/2/2016 5:39:52 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/2/2016 5:35:19 PM, Janerover wrote:
Excluding normalizing erratic cycles, for what reason would anyone want to take a pill that would render them sterile if not sexual liberation? I suggest the hormonal changes while important pale in comparison to what the Pill means for personal desire.

To answer your question:
1. hormonal acne
2. dysmenorrhea (painful periods)
3. iron deficiency anaemia (to reduce blood lost with periods)
4. polycystic ovarian syndrome

This is just to name a few.

You are correct here, I should have specified my intent when I listed out "normalizing erratic cycles", I was hoping to allude to what the Pill can do regarding hormone therapy, and was woefully short sighted in that. I was not aware of #1 as primarily treatable through birth control, though, and I was also under the impression that the Pill can also cause just as much ovarian problems as alleviate them. Is this not correct?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Janerover
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7/2/2016 5:43:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
You are correct here, I should have specified my intent when I listed out "normalizing erratic cycles", I was hoping to allude to what the Pill can do regarding hormone therapy, and was woefully short sighted in that. I was not aware of #1 as primarily treatable through birth control, though, and I was also under the impression that the Pill can also cause just as much ovarian problems as alleviate them. Is this not correct?

Agree. The OCP also is linked to multiple risks and side effects including long term risk of breast cancer. It also depends on the type of pill (i.e. what type of hormone is included). So unfortunately a well rounded answer is a bit complicated - and I can't be bothered to look up my textbooks!!! But yes, it is also used to treat a multitude of medical problems also.
FaustianJustice
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7/2/2016 5:51:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/2/2016 5:43:32 PM, Janerover wrote:
You are correct here, I should have specified my intent when I listed out "normalizing erratic cycles", I was hoping to allude to what the Pill can do regarding hormone therapy, and was woefully short sighted in that. I was not aware of #1 as primarily treatable through birth control, though, and I was also under the impression that the Pill can also cause just as much ovarian problems as alleviate them. Is this not correct?

Agree. The OCP also is linked to multiple risks and side effects including long term risk of breast cancer. It also depends on the type of pill (i.e. what type of hormone is included). So unfortunately a well rounded answer is a bit complicated - and I can't be bothered to look up my textbooks!!! But yes, it is also used to treat a multitude of medical problems also.

I won't press for more details then, your point is made, however with regards to the context of mates, should a female inform me that is what she takes oral contraceptives for, it would make sense. However should that not be the case from the onset, or not present at all, what would you think?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Janerover
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7/2/2016 6:23:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The root of Sexual attraction is biology. Mother nature demands that we all want the best genes for our children, and a mother (and father) to be the best genetic donors. Science backs up the differences in MHC compatibility in those taking the OCP vs those who are not. (see: http://www.scientificamerican.com...).

Put it this way. The ideal for a male would probably be to find a female not on the pill rather than on it. But I guess 'love' and relationships are a lot more complicated than that, for e.g. in arranged marriages where neither spouse has a say. Also, you can't ask random females to get off the OCP!

Basically, I wouldn't necessarily think if a woman is on the OCP, this is a red flag for her likely promiscuity. I don't think most women are prepared enough to think this much in advance. The other being that studies have shown that females actually have a REDUCED libido from the OCP (see: Hatcher & Nelson (2004). "Combined Hormonal Contraceptive Methods". In Hatcher, Robert D. Contraceptive technology (18th ed.). New York: Ardent Media, Inc. pp. 403, 432, 434. ISBN 0-9664902-5-8. and Speroff, Leon (2005). A clinical guide for contraception (4th ed.). Hagerstown, MD: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. p. 72. ISBN 0-7817-6488-2.)

Off topic, but I have to say from asking my female friends, the most common cause WE were on the OCP is because of convenience (i.e. you can control the days you bleed around sports, activities, etc etc).

And finally, although the OCP has made advances for women in family planning, it doesn't negate the risk of STDs.