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Society Is As Society Does . . .

SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/14/2010 7:04:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Society is as society does, it is pure and simple logic . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/14/2010 8:48:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Then society is nothing, for it can do nothing, for it is not an entity.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 8:48:09 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Then society is nothing, for it can do nothing, for it is not an entity.

en·ti·ty   
[en-ti-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
something that has a real existence; thing: corporeal entities.
2.
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
3.
essential nature: The entity of justice is universality.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/14/2010 8:55:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 8:48:09 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Then society is nothing, for it can do nothing, for it is not an entity.

By "entity" I suppose you mean has consciousness. The only one you can judge whether one has or has not a consciousness is themself. Do you know if I have a consciousness? No, you do not. Are you society? Then how can you say it has no consciousness? You think your comment is smartass, but it's really not.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/14/2010 8:56:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 8:55:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:48:09 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Then society is nothing, for it can do nothing, for it is not an entity.

By "entity" I suppose you mean has consciousness. The only one you can judge whether one has or has not a consciousness is themself. Do you know if I have a consciousness? No, you do not. Are you society? Then how can you say it has no consciousness? You think your comment is smartass, but it's really not.

Indeed, if you were society than you would say it does have one.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/14/2010 9:04:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
By "entity" I mean a thing which is in some characteristic distinct-- a thing that exists in some delimited manner, a specific thing with specific characteristics. It has nothing to do with consciousness, but it cannot be some mere vague and general agglomeration which refers to some unlimited grouping the contents of which change every time it is said without any way to tell which contents are referred to. To speak of society has no more meaning than to speak of "stuff." "Stuff sucks." Which things? Which individual people?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/14/2010 9:07:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 8:56:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:55:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:48:09 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Then society is nothing, for it can do nothing, for it is not an entity.

By "entity" I suppose you mean has consciousness. The only one you can judge whether one has or has not a consciousness is themself. Do you know if I have a consciousness? No, you do not. Are you society? Then how can you say it has no consciousness? You think your comment is smartass, but it's really not.

Indeed, if you were society than you would say it does have one.

"If you were society" is like saying "If your mom was all moms and no particular moms." If your mom was all moms and no particular moms than she would say she had slept with everyone's daddy and no particlar daddy.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/14/2010 9:08:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM, Ren wrote:
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
This definition is prettyy good. Note: Society, composed of entities, not an entity.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/15/2010 3:36:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 9:08:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM, Ren wrote:
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
This definition is prettyy good. Note: Society, composed of entities, not an entity.

Human beings: composed of organisms, are humans organisms?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/16/2010 10:05:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/15/2010 3:36:08 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/14/2010 9:08:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM, Ren wrote:
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
This definition is prettyy good. Note: Society, composed of entities, not an entity.

Human beings: composed of organisms, are humans organisms?

Hehe.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/16/2010 7:37:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/15/2010 3:36:08 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/14/2010 9:08:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM, Ren wrote:
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
This definition is prettyy good. Note: Society, composed of entities, not an entity.

Human beings: composed of organisms, are humans organisms?

Molecules, composed of atoms, are molecules atoms?
The point is that he presented the definition as though it somehow established his point. It doesn't.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/16/2010 8:04:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/16/2010 7:37:42 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/15/2010 3:36:08 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/14/2010 9:08:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM, Ren wrote:
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
This definition is prettyy good. Note: Society, composed of entities, not an entity.

Human beings: composed of organisms, are humans organisms?

Molecules, composed of atoms, are molecules atoms?
The point is that he presented the definition as though it somehow established his point. It doesn't.

Yeah, I'm sure Koopin realizes that you're attempting to make it seem as though the definition was invalid. It's rather funny that you claimed that society is not an entity when the word "society" is in the very definition. As a noun, a society is a thing and it is real. Furthermore, a society is independent and self-contained. I'm sure you thought that I was indicating that it's the fact that the word "society" was in the definition that qualified it as accurate, because you're dense and you choose to ignore the fact that I never make absurd claims that I cannot substantiate. But, I understand that most people on this site get off on attempting to look clever more than having a decent conversation.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/16/2010 8:32:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/16/2010 8:04:42 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/16/2010 7:37:42 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/15/2010 3:36:08 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/14/2010 9:08:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/14/2010 8:52:03 PM, Ren wrote:
being or existence, esp. when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: He conceived of society as composed of particular entities requiring special treatment.
This definition is prettyy good. Note: Society, composed of entities, not an entity.

Human beings: composed of organisms, are humans organisms?

Molecules, composed of atoms, are molecules atoms?
The point is that he presented the definition as though it somehow established his point. It doesn't.

Yeah, I'm sure Koopin realizes that you're attempting to make it seem as though the definition was invalid. It's rather funny that you claimed that society is not an entity when the word "society" is in the very definition.
EPIC FAIL. that's an example sentence, it's not part of the definition, it's provided with the definition to help you understand it.

As a noun, a society is a thing and it is real.
It is not a thing, a thing is specific.

Furthermore, a society is independent and self-contained.
No, it isn't. It's a term dependent on the parts "individuals," and is contained within that mass of individuals.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/16/2010 8:44:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Indeed, society does not have a self to contain. Many separate selves, in any particular attribute you're looking at for selfhood, constitute society, which as a word is nothing more than a way to save time referring to those individuals. There's nothing to "society" save individuals x a given number, there's no special trait that is in a society but not in individuals or some group of individuals. Stick a bunch of humans in a room, you don't have a some kind of higher life form, you have a bunch of humans in a room.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/16/2010 8:58:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/16/2010 8:44:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Indeed, society does not have a self to contain. Many separate selves, in any particular attribute you're looking at for selfhood, constitute society, which as a word is nothing more than a way to save time referring to those individuals. There's nothing to "society" save individuals x a given number, there's no special trait that is in a society but not in individuals or some group of individuals. Stick a bunch of humans in a room, you don't have a some kind of higher life form, you have a bunch of humans in a room.

Tell that to your blood cells and see what happens . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/16/2010 9:12:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/16/2010 8:58:05 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/16/2010 8:44:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Indeed, society does not have a self to contain. Many separate selves, in any particular attribute you're looking at for selfhood, constitute society, which as a word is nothing more than a way to save time referring to those individuals. There's nothing to "society" save individuals x a given number, there's no special trait that is in a society but not in individuals or some group of individuals. Stick a bunch of humans in a room, you don't have a some kind of higher life form, you have a bunch of humans in a room.

Tell that to your blood cells and see what happens . . .

My blood cells don't listen, because unlike humans, they don't have ears.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/16/2010 9:13:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To clarify, the point is that Blood cell: human simply DOES NOT analogize well to human: society.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/16/2010 10:07:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/16/2010 9:12:21 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/16/2010 8:58:05 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/16/2010 8:44:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Indeed, society does not have a self to contain. Many separate selves, in any particular attribute you're looking at for selfhood, constitute society, which as a word is nothing more than a way to save time referring to those individuals. There's nothing to "society" save individuals x a given number, there's no special trait that is in a society but not in individuals or some group of individuals. Stick a bunch of humans in a room, you don't have a some kind of higher life form, you have a bunch of humans in a room.

Tell that to your blood cells and see what happens . . .

My blood cells don't listen, because unlike humans, they don't have ears.

Metaphor . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/16/2010 10:42:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 8:48:09 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Then society is nothing, for it can do nothing, for it is not an entity.

you fooled me with your phil picture before...

I thought he was sounding like you.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/17/2010 12:17:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/16/2010 8:32:52 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure Koopin realizes that you're attempting to make it seem as though the definition was invalid. It's rather funny that you claimed that society is not an entity when the word "society" is in the very definition.
EPIC FAIL. that's an example sentence, it's not part of the definition, it's provided with the definition to help you understand it.

I'm sure you thought that I was indicating that it's the fact that the word "society" was in the definition that qualified it as accurate, because you're dense and you choose to ignore the fact that I never make absurd claims that I cannot substantiate. But, I understand that most people on this site get off on attempting to look clever more than having a decent conversation.

LMFAO -- epic fail, indeed.

As a noun, a society is a thing and it is real.
It is not a thing, a thing is specific.

thing1    
[thing] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a material object without life or consciousness; an inanimate object.
2.
some entity, object, or creature that is not or cannot be specifically designated or precisely described: The stick had a brass thing on it.
3.
anything that is or may become an object of thought: things of the spirit.
4.
things, matters; affairs: Things are going well now.
5.
a fact, circumstance, or state of affairs: It is a curious thing.

Epic fail, indeed.

No, it isn't. It's a term dependent on the parts "individuals," and is contained within that mass of individuals.

No, that mass of individuals is contained within a society. In our latter-day world, a society is contained within something called a "nation." I suggest you look that up before you reply.

Furthermore, it's not dependent on individuals. It's dependent on a government and its doctrine.

Sigh. Any more?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/17/2010 6:30:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As a noun, a society is a thing and it is real.
It is not a thing, a thing is specific.

thing1    
[thing] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a material object without life or consciousness; an inanimate object.
2.
some entity, object, or creature that is not or cannot be specifically designated or precisely described: The stick had a brass thing on it.
3.
anything that is or may become an object of thought: things of the spirit.
4.
things, matters; affairs: Things are going well now.
5.
a fact, circumstance, or state of affairs: It is a curious thing.

Epic fail, indeed.
Fallacy of equivocation.

No, that mass of individuals is contained within a society.
Society is nothing capable of "containing" such things.
In our latter-day world, a society is contained within something called a "nation."
That is not now nor has it ever been true. there's this thing called "trade." and governments aren't omnipotent. Social interactions of many sorts happen without the involvement of government.

Furthermore, it's not dependent on individuals. It's dependent on a government and its doctrine.
See above.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.