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TV is mind control

Edlvsjd
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6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/26/2016 6:00:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
http://imgur.com...
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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6/26/2016 7:43:59 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM, Edlvsjd wrote:
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed

Well, obviously.

I can even see it in my country. In my country, if you pay for a cheaper TV service, you only get local channels and a few Italian channels. We have 3 main local channels, one for the right-wing party, one for the left-wing party, and one is the national one (which sometimes still gets biased according to who the contemporary government is). Both of the parties' channels are quite fond of using their channels as a platform to promote themselves, and make themselves appear as greater than the other. I was never quite fond of those channels. I'd rather form my opinion according to what I experience from them and from seeing what political moves they decide to make.

It could be worse though. At least we aren't as brainwashed as some people are in other countries (most of which have a dictatorship).
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 8:21:37 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I used to be against mind control, but now I think, if they control my mind, I won't step out of line. If I don't step out of line, people will approve of me and smile at me. That's good, right? It's not as if my own independent ideas were worth much. Maybe I'm better off in sync with the rest of these suburban dwellers.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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6/26/2016 8:40:48 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 8:21:37 AM, rross wrote:
I used to be against mind control, but now I think, if they control my mind, I won't step out of line. If I don't step out of line, people will approve of me and smile at me. That's good, right? It's not as if my own independent ideas were worth much. Maybe I'm better off in sync with the rest of these suburban dwellers.

When utterly brainwashed, you don't see what is best for you. I wouldn't define media brainwashing as a complete mind control though.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/26/2016 9:08:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 7:43:59 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM, Edlvsjd wrote:
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed

Well, obviously.

I can even see it in my country. In my country, if you pay for a cheaper TV service, you only get local channels and a few Italian channels. We have 3 main local channels, one for the right-wing party, one for the left-wing party, and one is the national one (which sometimes still gets biased according to who the contemporary government is). Both of the parties' channels are quite fond of using their channels as a platform to promote themselves, and make themselves appear as greater than the other. I was never quite fond of those channels. I'd rather form my opinion according to what I experience from them and from seeing what political moves they decide to make.
That's not brainwashing lol, since the same medium (TV) still exposes you to conflicting viewpoints. Someone who is 'brainwashed' by such channels does so willingly, by shutting himself/herself from the channel of the opposite side. TV channels where I live are more like 'brainwashing', as the major channels are all slanted towards the government in some ways, avoiding overly negative news about the government. When reporters attempt to include material that would make the government look bad, they are usually censored or receive retaliation in some way. TV stations from the pro-democracy side are generally not issued licences to operate. That's why many people prefer to use as their main source of information the Internet, which permits a plurality of views ranging from radically pro-government to radically pro-democracy. Most of the news sites are highly biased and most people just pick and choose the source of news espousing the positions they prefer, but that is very different from the TV situation where pro-government views dominate.

In the West, an example of brainwashing would be the treatment of non-mainstream candidates like Trump in the mainstream American media, as Skep has demonstrated through a post from a week-or-so back. Most of the media - not just the liberal ones, but also the conservatives - try to paint a very negative image of Trump and his supporters because of partisan reasons. Someone who is exposed only to these media would automatically have a very negative opinion of Trump. To find news that is relatively fair towards Trump, one would have to look beyond the media moguls' outlets, which most people can't or won't do.
It could be worse though. At least we aren't as brainwashed as some people are in other countries (most of which have a dictatorship).
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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6/26/2016 9:28:37 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 9:08:47 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 7:43:59 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM, Edlvsjd wrote:
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed

Well, obviously.

I can even see it in my country. In my country, if you pay for a cheaper TV service, you only get local channels and a few Italian channels. We have 3 main local channels, one for the right-wing party, one for the left-wing party, and one is the national one (which sometimes still gets biased according to who the contemporary government is). Both of the parties' channels are quite fond of using their channels as a platform to promote themselves, and make themselves appear as greater than the other. I was never quite fond of those channels. I'd rather form my opinion according to what I experience from them and from seeing what political moves they decide to make.
That's not brainwashing lol, since the same medium (TV) still exposes you to conflicting viewpoints. Someone who is 'brainwashed' by such channels does so willingly, by shutting himself/herself from the channel of the opposite side. TV channels where I live are more like 'brainwashing', as the major channels are all slanted towards the government in some ways, avoiding overly negative news about the government. When reporters attempt to include material that would make the government look bad, they are usually censored or receive retaliation in some way. TV stations from the pro-democracy side are generally not issued licences to operate. That's why many people prefer to use as their main source of information the Internet, which permits a plurality of views ranging from radically pro-government to radically pro-democracy. Most of the news sites are highly biased and most people just pick and choose the source of news espousing the positions they prefer, but that is very different from the TV situation where pro-government views dominate.

In the West, an example of brainwashing would be the treatment of non-mainstream candidates like Trump in the mainstream American media, as Skep has demonstrated through a post from a week-or-so back. Most of the media - not just the liberal ones, but also the conservatives - try to paint a very negative image of Trump and his supporters because of partisan reasons. Someone who is exposed only to these media would automatically have a very negative opinion of Trump. To find news that is relatively fair towards Trump, one would have to look beyond the media moguls' outlets, which most people can't or won't do.
It could be worse though. At least we aren't as brainwashed as some people are in other countries (most of which have a dictatorship).

It is brainwashing. It doesn't introduce you to conflicting viewpoints. Their only aim is to say the other party is bad, especially the right wing, that attacks the left wing all the time. They do so willingly yes, because they're biased. People here most of the time vote whoever the rest of his family votes, it's pretty stupid. So they generally tend to watch the channels of whatever their family votes. It isn't a huge amount of propaganda, but it's still there. It's still brainwashing.

As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/26/2016 9:51:45 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 9:28:37 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/26/2016 9:08:47 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 7:43:59 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM, Edlvsjd wrote:
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed

Well, obviously.

I can even see it in my country. In my country, if you pay for a cheaper TV service, you only get local channels and a few Italian channels. We have 3 main local channels, one for the right-wing party, one for the left-wing party, and one is the national one (which sometimes still gets biased according to who the contemporary government is). Both of the parties' channels are quite fond of using their channels as a platform to promote themselves, and make themselves appear as greater than the other. I was never quite fond of those channels. I'd rather form my opinion according to what I experience from them and from seeing what political moves they decide to make.
That's not brainwashing lol, since the same medium (TV) still exposes you to conflicting viewpoints. Someone who is 'brainwashed' by such channels does so willingly, by shutting himself/herself from the channel of the opposite side. TV channels where I live are more like 'brainwashing', as the major channels are all slanted towards the government in some ways, avoiding overly negative news about the government. When reporters attempt to include material that would make the government look bad, they are usually censored or receive retaliation in some way. TV stations from the pro-democracy side are generally not issued licences to operate. That's why many people prefer to use as their main source of information the Internet, which permits a plurality of views ranging from radically pro-government to radically pro-democracy. Most of the news sites are highly biased and most people just pick and choose the source of news espousing the positions they prefer, but that is very different from the TV situation where pro-government views dominate.

In the West, an example of brainwashing would be the treatment of non-mainstream candidates like Trump in the mainstream American media, as Skep has demonstrated through a post from a week-or-so back. Most of the media - not just the liberal ones, but also the conservatives - try to paint a very negative image of Trump and his supporters because of partisan reasons. Someone who is exposed only to these media would automatically have a very negative opinion of Trump. To find news that is relatively fair towards Trump, one would have to look beyond the media moguls' outlets, which most people can't or won't do.
It could be worse though. At least we aren't as brainwashed as some people are in other countries (most of which have a dictatorship).

It is brainwashing. It doesn't introduce you to conflicting viewpoints. Their only aim is to say the other party is bad, especially the right wing, that attacks the left wing all the time.
But that's the aim of pretty much every media outlet in the world, lol. It's just that some do it overtly and others are more subtle (e.g. by having news events favourable to their position take up more space than those that would put them in a negative light). My point is, if you regard this as brainwashing, then almost everyone in the world faces brainwashing.
They do so willingly yes, because they're biased. People here most of the time vote whoever the rest of his family votes, it's pretty stupid. So they generally tend to watch the channels of whatever their family votes. It isn't a huge amount of propaganda, but it's still there. It's still brainwashing.
I don't know if people tend to spend family time watching TV in Malta, but if that is the case I can definitely see why they go along with their family. Anyhow I think that if the two TV channels are equally accessible to the general populace then it doesn't really amount to brainwashing. I mean, where I live the most accessible media is overwhelmingly pro-government, so you could say it's brainwashing in a way - it's far easier to get the government's side of the story than the opposition's. If the two stories were equally accessible, someone who still manages to be 'brainwashed' is simply too lazy to flip the channel and look at the other side's opinions.

I personally think that, since it's impossible to get unbiased information anyway, your best bet is to look at reports from both/all sides and make a decision based on them.
As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
Lol I agree Trump isn't really an appropriate president. Ability-wise Hillary seems to be the best bet, even though her personality is in question, and the reverse holds for Sanders - he's a good guy, but being morally good isn't the only relevant criterion. But back to the topic in question, my point was that, regardless of whether Trump is a good candidate, it's still a fact that the media are unfairly biased against him, and since the majority of the mainstream media is doing this, we can consider it to be a type of brainwashing.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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6/26/2016 10:02:57 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I personally think that, since it's impossible to get unbiased information anyway, your best bet is to look at reports from both/all sides and make a decision based on them.
As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
Lol I agree Trump isn't really an appropriate president. Ability-wise Hillary seems to be the best bet, even though her personality is in question, and the reverse holds for Sanders - he's a good guy, but being morally good isn't the only relevant criterion. But back to the topic in question, my point was that, regardless of whether Trump is a good candidate, it's still a fact that the media are unfairly biased against him, and since the majority of the mainstream media is doing this, we can consider it to be a type of brainwashing.

I'm quite torn really. I feel like Hillary is a bit too fake. She changes her ideology depending on who she's talking to, lies continuously, makes promises she probably can't achieve...I don't know really.
Sanders is focusing too much on America socially, and forgetting that America even needs its economics. I also disliked a statement in particular he made: "When you're white ... you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Which is funny, considering the fact that 19.7 million white Americans are living in poverty.
The media is unfairly biased about Donald Trump, yes.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/26/2016 10:21:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 8:21:37 AM, rross wrote:
I used to be against mind control, but now I think, if they control my mind, I won't step out of line. If I don't step out of line, people will approve of me and smile at me. That's good, right? It's not as if my own independent ideas were worth much. Maybe I'm better off in sync with the rest of these suburban dwellers.

Reminds me of four words... He loved Big Brother. :P
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/26/2016 10:29:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 10:02:57 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
I personally think that, since it's impossible to get unbiased information anyway, your best bet is to look at reports from both/all sides and make a decision based on them.
As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
Lol I agree Trump isn't really an appropriate president. Ability-wise Hillary seems to be the best bet, even though her personality is in question, and the reverse holds for Sanders - he's a good guy, but being morally good isn't the only relevant criterion. But back to the topic in question, my point was that, regardless of whether Trump is a good candidate, it's still a fact that the media are unfairly biased against him, and since the majority of the mainstream media is doing this, we can consider it to be a type of brainwashing.

I'm quite torn really. I feel like Hillary is a bit too fake. She changes her ideology depending on who she's talking to, lies continuously, makes promises she probably can't achieve...I don't know really.
Sanders is focusing too much on America socially, and forgetting that America even needs its economics. I also disliked a statement in particular he made: "When you're white ... you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Which is funny, considering the fact that 19.7 million white Americans are living in poverty.
The media is unfairly biased about Donald Trump, yes.

Yeah, Sanders probably won't be fit for presidency. His policies are far too radical... If Sanders becomes president maybe the conservatives will just spend half their time filibustering his policies away XD JMK (who has always admired Sanders for his character) wrote a rather detailed critique of his economic policies in the econ forum.

Regarding the statement though... I looked it up, but it seems like he's saying that whites don't understand the conditions faced by black people in the ghettos - even poor whites do not face that degree of harassment or threats to security in their daily lifes.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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6/26/2016 10:52:37 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 10:29:09 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 10:02:57 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
I personally think that, since it's impossible to get unbiased information anyway, your best bet is to look at reports from both/all sides and make a decision based on them.
As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
Lol I agree Trump isn't really an appropriate president. Ability-wise Hillary seems to be the best bet, even though her personality is in question, and the reverse holds for Sanders - he's a good guy, but being morally good isn't the only relevant criterion. But back to the topic in question, my point was that, regardless of whether Trump is a good candidate, it's still a fact that the media are unfairly biased against him, and since the majority of the mainstream media is doing this, we can consider it to be a type of brainwashing.

I'm quite torn really. I feel like Hillary is a bit too fake. She changes her ideology depending on who she's talking to, lies continuously, makes promises she probably can't achieve...I don't know really.
Sanders is focusing too much on America socially, and forgetting that America even needs its economics. I also disliked a statement in particular he made: "When you're white ... you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Which is funny, considering the fact that 19.7 million white Americans are living in poverty.
The media is unfairly biased about Donald Trump, yes.

Yeah, Sanders probably won't be fit for presidency. His policies are far too radical... If Sanders becomes president maybe the conservatives will just spend half their time filibustering his policies away XD JMK (who has always admired Sanders for his character) wrote a rather detailed critique of his economic policies in the econ forum.

Regarding the statement though... I looked it up, but it seems like he's saying that whites don't understand the conditions faced by black people in the ghettos - even poor whites do not face that degree of harassment or threats to security in their daily lifes.

African Americans don't face social or political threats because of the government itself. Most of the threats come from their own counterparts. Most murders are intraracial (94% of black victims were killed by other black offenders). https://www.youtube.com...
"You don't know what's it's like to be poor."
Here he's making cops appear like some kind of evil entity. A future president doesn't devalue the people who try to seek the safety of the citizens of his country and to diminish the overall crime rate of the nation (which seems to be quite high in the US). He claims it's the fault of institutional racism. Why would a black president permit institutional racism, first of all? Institutional racism isn't real, and he's just targeting a specific demographic of voters. A good president should present the citizens with equality, not to try to create problems that don't even exist in the first place, but that's just my opinion of-course.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 1:54:58 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 10:21:44 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 8:21:37 AM, rross wrote:
I used to be against mind control, but now I think, if they control my mind, I won't step out of line. If I don't step out of line, people will approve of me and smile at me. That's good, right? It's not as if my own independent ideas were worth much. Maybe I'm better off in sync with the rest of these suburban dwellers.

Reminds me of four words... He loved Big Brother. :P

Oh yeah? Well, maybe Orwell is using mind control too. He's an upper middle class male who went to Eton and then spent his holidays touring among the poor so he could write about them. For years, I got my knowledge about poverty from Orwell. I was so naive I thought he was writing about his own life, but he was writing about what he saw in his holidays. He's just TV for the privileged. :(

Not that it's wrong, what he did. He couldn't help his background. But still.
rross
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6/26/2016 2:08:33 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 10:52:37 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/26/2016 10:29:09 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 10:02:57 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
I personally think that, since it's impossible to get unbiased information anyway, your best bet is to look at reports from both/all sides and make a decision based on them.
As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
Lol I agree Trump isn't really an appropriate president. Ability-wise Hillary seems to be the best bet, even though her personality is in question, and the reverse holds for Sanders - he's a good guy, but being morally good isn't the only relevant criterion. But back to the topic in question, my point was that, regardless of whether Trump is a good candidate, it's still a fact that the media are unfairly biased against him, and since the majority of the mainstream media is doing this, we can consider it to be a type of brainwashing.

I'm quite torn really. I feel like Hillary is a bit too fake. She changes her ideology depending on who she's talking to, lies continuously, makes promises she probably can't achieve...I don't know really.
Sanders is focusing too much on America socially, and forgetting that America even needs its economics. I also disliked a statement in particular he made: "When you're white ... you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Which is funny, considering the fact that 19.7 million white Americans are living in poverty.
The media is unfairly biased about Donald Trump, yes.

Yeah, Sanders probably won't be fit for presidency. His policies are far too radical... If Sanders becomes president maybe the conservatives will just spend half their time filibustering his policies away XD JMK (who has always admired Sanders for his character) wrote a rather detailed critique of his economic policies in the econ forum.

Regarding the statement though... I looked it up, but it seems like he's saying that whites don't understand the conditions faced by black people in the ghettos - even poor whites do not face that degree of harassment or threats to security in their daily lifes.

African Americans don't face social or political threats because of the government itself. Most of the threats come from their own counterparts. Most murders are intraracial (94% of black victims were killed by other black offenders). https://www.youtube.com...
"You don't know what's it's like to be poor."
Here he's making cops appear like some kind of evil entity. A future president doesn't devalue the people who try to seek the safety of the citizens of his country and to diminish the overall crime rate of the nation (which seems to be quite high in the US). He claims it's the fault of institutional racism. Why would a black president permit institutional racism, first of all? Institutional racism isn't real, and he's just targeting a specific demographic of voters. A good president should present the citizens with equality, not to try to create problems that don't even exist in the first place, but that's just my opinion of-course.

I suppose if you're being threatened or murdered, the race of the person doing the threatening or murdering is not as important to you as your own safety? If you're more likely to be a victim of crime because of your skin color, then that seems like a problem of racism.
Also, the government isn't supposed to be a black government or a white government. It's a government for everyone, so it's kinda problematic to say that murder is not the responsibility of the government because of the race of the perpetrators. That's the government's responsibility because of it being about safety of citizens. It's all the same.
foxxhajti
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6/26/2016 3:27:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I suppose if you're being threatened or murdered, the race of the person doing the threatening or murdering is not as important to you as your own safety? If you're more likely to be a victim of crime because of your skin color, then that seems like a problem of racism.

The African American victims of crime rate has decreased quite a lot throughout the years. More than half of all murders in the US, are committed by African Americans, even though they only make up 13% of the population. African Americans are more likely to be the victims of crime, but it's not because of some type institutional racism. It's not a problem of racism.

Also, the government isn't supposed to be a black government or a white government. It's a government for everyone, so it's kinda problematic to say that murder is not the responsibility of the government because of the race of the perpetrators. That's the government's responsibility because of it being about safety of citizens. It's all the same.

I am aware it's a government for everyone. I never said it's a black government. I gave Obama as an example to show that there's nothing holding black people down. There isn't anything holding them back from achieving their goals etc. related to race. Now, regarding to the murder rates, I think in the US they should re-adjust their gun laws. Guns are too easily accessible for civilians really. It's not the government's fault that most victims happen to be black though. The government doesn't tell the murderers who to target. I never said the government shouldn't take responsibility of the safety of the citizens. Perhaps you just misunderstood me.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
rross
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6/26/2016 3:43:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:27:11 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
I suppose if you're being threatened or murdered, the race of the person doing the threatening or murdering is not as important to you as your own safety? If you're more likely to be a victim of crime because of your skin color, then that seems like a problem of racism.

The African American victims of crime rate has decreased quite a lot throughout the years. More than half of all murders in the US, are committed by African Americans, even though they only make up 13% of the population. African Americans are more likely to be the victims of crime, but it's not because of some type institutional racism. It's not a problem of racism.

How can it not be a problem of racism if one race is more likely to be victim to crimes than another? Whatever the reason for it, one segment of the population is living in less safe circumstances than another. Unless you believe that the circumstances of social living are random and not subject to the deliberate actions of people, then something racist has to be occurring.

Also, the government isn't supposed to be a black government or a white government. It's a government for everyone, so it's kinda problematic to say that murder is not the responsibility of the government because of the race of the perpetrators. That's the government's responsibility because of it being about safety of citizens. It's all the same.

I am aware it's a government for everyone. I never said it's a black government. I gave Obama as an example to show that there's nothing holding black people down. There isn't anything holding them back from achieving their goals etc. related to race. Now, regarding to the murder rates, I think in the US they should re-adjust their gun laws. Guns are too easily accessible for civilians really. It's not the government's fault that most victims happen to be black though. The government doesn't tell the murderers who to target. I never said the government shouldn't take responsibility of the safety of the citizens. Perhaps you just misunderstood me.

Haha, yeah, that seemed like a really extreme view. Sorry to misunderstand you!

Idk, though, when you say that it's not the government's fault that most victims of crime happen to be black. It may not be the government's fault exactly, but they need to address it. It's their responsibility.

Also, this idea of there being nothing holding people back from achieving their goals related to race. You've already said that black people are more likely to be victims of crime. Crime can hold you back from achieving your goals, so there is something at least.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/26/2016 4:29:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 10:52:37 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/26/2016 10:29:09 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 10:02:57 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
I personally think that, since it's impossible to get unbiased information anyway, your best bet is to look at reports from both/all sides and make a decision based on them.
As a person who has never watched anything related to American media, but has done some research, because I just find that kind of stuff interesting, I don't find Trump as an appropriate president. Having said that, I don't find Hillary Clinton and appropriate one either. If I was an American, I would be genuinely concerned about the future of my country, when they have such crappy candidates. Something I admire to an extent is Donald Trump's honesty at least. Honesty seems to be an extraterrestrial word for Hillary Clinton. It's quite likely she'll be elected, just for the sake of "making history".
Lol I agree Trump isn't really an appropriate president. Ability-wise Hillary seems to be the best bet, even though her personality is in question, and the reverse holds for Sanders - he's a good guy, but being morally good isn't the only relevant criterion. But back to the topic in question, my point was that, regardless of whether Trump is a good candidate, it's still a fact that the media are unfairly biased against him, and since the majority of the mainstream media is doing this, we can consider it to be a type of brainwashing.

I'm quite torn really. I feel like Hillary is a bit too fake. She changes her ideology depending on who she's talking to, lies continuously, makes promises she probably can't achieve...I don't know really.
Sanders is focusing too much on America socially, and forgetting that America even needs its economics. I also disliked a statement in particular he made: "When you're white ... you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Which is funny, considering the fact that 19.7 million white Americans are living in poverty.
The media is unfairly biased about Donald Trump, yes.

Yeah, Sanders probably won't be fit for presidency. His policies are far too radical... If Sanders becomes president maybe the conservatives will just spend half their time filibustering his policies away XD JMK (who has always admired Sanders for his character) wrote a rather detailed critique of his economic policies in the econ forum.

Regarding the statement though... I looked it up, but it seems like he's saying that whites don't understand the conditions faced by black people in the ghettos - even poor whites do not face that degree of harassment or threats to security in their daily lifes.

African Americans don't face social or political threats because of the government itself. Most of the threats come from their own counterparts. Most murders are intraracial (94% of black victims were killed by other black offenders). https://www.youtube.com...
"You don't know what's it's like to be poor."
Here he's making cops appear like some kind of evil entity. A future president doesn't devalue the people who try to seek the safety of the citizens of his country and to diminish the overall crime rate of the nation (which seems to be quite high in the US).
A police force can seek the safety of the citizens and diminish the overall crime rate while still having serious problems. I have massive respect for the police here, as they have worked tirelessly to turn our city into one of the cleanest and safest cities in Asia, and indeed the world. They are far more important than the pro-democracy protesters give them credit for. But it remains true that they can be pretty merciless towards peaceful protesters. If Sanders truly believes the police has a bias against blacks, he can say so while recognising the police's contributions towards stabilising society. (I'm not saying he's right btw - I haven't looked much into the issue - but I do think it's a valid thing for a presidential candidate to say.)
He claims it's the fault of institutional racism. Why would a black president permit institutional racism, first of all?
The president is just part of the administration; he doesn't directly interfere in law enforcement, less still the internal workings of the police force. Besides, Obama was the first black president. Institutional discrimination, and indeed institutional anything, takes time to wear down and disappear, particularly when it comes to subconscious attitudes like the putative racism Sanders may be accusing them of.
Institutional racism isn't real, and he's just targeting a specific demographic of voters. A good president should present the citizens with equality, not to try to create problems that don't even exist in the first place, but that's just my opinion of-course.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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6/26/2016 4:29:54 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 1:54:58 PM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 10:21:44 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/26/2016 8:21:37 AM, rross wrote:
I used to be against mind control, but now I think, if they control my mind, I won't step out of line. If I don't step out of line, people will approve of me and smile at me. That's good, right? It's not as if my own independent ideas were worth much. Maybe I'm better off in sync with the rest of these suburban dwellers.

Reminds me of four words... He loved Big Brother. :P

Oh yeah? Well, maybe Orwell is using mind control too. He's an upper middle class male who went to Eton and then spent his holidays touring among the poor so he could write about them. For years, I got my knowledge about poverty from Orwell. I was so naive I thought he was writing about his own life, but he was writing about what he saw in his holidays. He's just TV for the privileged. :(

Not that it's wrong, what he did. He couldn't help his background. But still.

For knowledge of poverty you should probably use Dickens and not Orwell lol...
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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6/26/2016 4:32:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
How can it not be a problem of racism if one race is more likely to be victim to crimes than another? Whatever the reason for it, one segment of the population is living in less safe circumstances than another. Unless you believe that the circumstances of social living are random and not subject to the deliberate actions of people, then something racist has to be occurring.

First of all, not all black people are facing the danger of being killed everywhere. It's a cultural problem for the most part. Black culture and white culture in America are quite distinctly different. Most offenders are black males. Nobody forces them to murder anyone, they do it willingly. The government doesn't make black people murder anyone, they're the ones who do the act. All the government can do is pose more restrictions for the sake of the safety of the citizens, which the USA's current gun laws don't provide.

Haha, yeah, that seemed like a really extreme view. Sorry to misunderstand you!

That's fine, everybody makes mistakes.

Idk, though, when you say that it's not the government's fault that most victims of crime happen to be black. It may not be the government's fault exactly, but they need to address it. It's their responsibility.

The government can't control who the victims and offenders are, all it can try to do is tackle the issues the places with high crime rates have, and do something about those gun laws.

Also, this idea of there being nothing holding people back from achieving their goals related to race. You've already said that black people are more likely to be victims of crime. Crime can hold you back from achieving your goals, so there is something at least.

You do the crime yourself, willingly. If you commit a crime, it's not the governments fault for holding you back, you are the one who committed the immoral act. I understand some crime is related to poverty. My family has had a bad financial phase, yet none of us have ever committed any crime. It's just how you grow up, your culture, your background, what you're willing to do and your morals.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 5:11:41 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 4:32:10 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
How can it not be a problem of racism if one race is more likely to be victim to crimes than another? Whatever the reason for it, one segment of the population is living in less safe circumstances than another. Unless you believe that the circumstances of social living are random and not subject to the deliberate actions of people, then something racist has to be occurring.

First of all, not all black people are facing the danger of being killed everywhere. It's a cultural problem for the most part. Black culture and white culture in America are quite distinctly different. Most offenders are black males. Nobody forces them to murder anyone, they do it willingly. The government doesn't make black people murder anyone, they're the ones who do the act. All the government can do is pose more restrictions for the sake of the safety of the citizens, which the USA's current gun laws don't provide.

Also, this idea of there being nothing holding people back from achieving their goals related to race. You've already said that black people are more likely to be victims of crime. Crime can hold you back from achieving your goals, so there is something at least.

You do the crime yourself, willingly. If you commit a crime, it's not the governments fault for holding you back, you are the one who committed the immoral act. I understand some crime is related to poverty. My family has had a bad financial phase, yet none of us have ever committed any crime. It's just how you grow up, your culture, your background, what you're willing to do and your morals.

I mean being victims of crime. Like, being robbed or if someone in your family is killed. Of course, that would hold you back from your goals. The race of the perpetrators is not relevant because they're not the same people. Like, if a white person murdered another white person, one is the murderer and one is the victim. It's not as if they're both guilty on account of both being white. Sorry, if I'm misunderstanding you again.
foxxhajti
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6/26/2016 5:21:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I mean being victims of crime. Like, being robbed or if someone in your family is killed. Of course, that would hold you back from your goals. The race of the perpetrators is not relevant because they're not the same people. Like, if a white person murdered another white person, one is the murderer and one is the victim. It's not as if they're both guilty on account of both being white. Sorry, if I'm misunderstanding you again.

Looks like I'm the one who misunderstood you in this case lol. One can never predicted being in a criminal situation. All you can do is report the occurrence, although that wouldn't resuscitate the slaughtered victim. In certain areas though, one is more prone to have his life being in danger than others.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 5:24:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 5:21:04 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
I mean being victims of crime. Like, being robbed or if someone in your family is killed. Of course, that would hold you back from your goals. The race of the perpetrators is not relevant because they're not the same people. Like, if a white person murdered another white person, one is the murderer and one is the victim. It's not as if they're both guilty on account of both being white. Sorry, if I'm misunderstanding you again.

Looks like I'm the one who misunderstood you in this case lol. One can never predicted being in a criminal situation. All you can do is report the occurrence, although that wouldn't resuscitate the slaughtered victim. In certain areas though, one is more prone to have his life being in danger than others.

Yes, that's true. Some places are safer than others.
lovesnivy
Posts: 53
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6/28/2016 7:53:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM, Edlvsjd wrote:
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed

It's not just TV... it's media in general
ironslippers
Posts: 513
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6/28/2016 8:54:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/25/2016 5:28:46 AM, Edlvsjd wrote:
since I've stopped watching TV, and gotten some critical thinking about myself, it's apparent that the public in general, especially america, is brainwashed

I don't think I'd call it "brainwash" more like guided meditation, similar to praying 5 times a day
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,311
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7/1/2016 6:25:36 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 8:40:48 AM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 6/26/2016 8:21:37 AM, rross wrote:
I used to be against mind control, but now I think, if they control my mind, I won't step out of line. If I don't step out of line, people will approve of me and smile at me. That's good, right? It's not as if my own independent ideas were worth much. Maybe I'm better off in sync with the rest of these suburban dwellers.

When utterly brainwashed, you don't see what is best for you. I wouldn't define media brainwashing as a complete mind control though.

But without the tell-a-vision, to get your mind to think a certain way would be difficult. Way back in the day before mass media existed, there were groups traveling about to perform plays for towns, and attendance was mandatory. There is a reason for that. All countries of the world are run by dictatorships. If you think your country is not one of these tyrannies, then you are just as brainwashed as anyone. When you vote for a president, you are not voting for the man or woman. You are voting for a mindset of predetermined values. The greatest control is the control that makes you think you have options. Have you not noticed that all candidates winning the office rebuke their promises made during the campaign? Over and over false promises keep the gullible hope cheering for sunny days.