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How Would You Respond To This Racial Data?

DiogenestheDog
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6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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6/29/2016 11:22:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

In the US blacks have been underserved with education and job opportunities. To some degree in some areas amongst blacks in schools it is not seen to be cool if you are smart. It's looked as acting white; which in crime riddled areas, gang membership is seen to have higher status value because it brings in cash.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

Many African countries still have familial clan ties and religious differences between them. On top of all of this governments are corrupt which escalates the situation between the haves and have nots.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

Korea and Japan are highly homogeneous cultures, there are very few minorities.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Classical Egypt is in Africa, it was a very high culture, along with the Kush, Nubia and the Swahili civilization which was destroyed by the Portuguese in the 1500's

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

Just because the African nations did not resemble European style organization or governments does not make them lesser of. This is an error that is often made. What is not understood culturally often is dismissed as uncivilized; not the case.
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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6/30/2016 12:28:31 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It is also reality that whites statistically make up majority of the U.S. population and are convicted for the most violent crimes in the United States. Population aside, can we infer that whites are also inherently violent? Anecdotally, I notice (as well as other minorities) that websites where whites frequent such as discussion boards and music websites (YouTube etc) tend to be frequented by racist whites who use certain videos to expose their own racism, so do we then ignore these trends or can we infer some truth that statistically since whites are a mjority in this country that more likely than not, whites tend to have a racist mindset?

My point is if you are going to look at statistical data for your agenda be prepared to explain the behaviors of other cultures. I can easily infer than more likely than not, I'll find a violent and racist white person before I find a violent and racist black person. The thing you learn in statistics of psychology is what we call confounding factors.
DiogenestheDog
Posts: 103
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6/30/2016 12:35:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 12:28:31 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It is also reality that whites statistically make up majority of the U.S. population and are convicted for the most violent crimes in the United States. Population aside, can we infer that whites are also inherently violent? Anecdotally, I notice (as well as other minorities) that websites where whites frequent such as discussion boards and music websites (YouTube etc) tend to be frequented by racist whites who use certain videos to expose their own racism, so do we then ignore these trends or can we infer some truth that statistically since whites are a mjority in this country that more likely than not, whites tend to have a racist mindset?

My point is if you are going to look at statistical data for your agenda be prepared to explain the behaviors of other cultures. I can easily infer than more likely than not, I'll find a violent and racist white person before I find a violent and racist black person. The thing you learn in statistics of psychology is what we call confounding factors.

Sorry but what you just wrote was completely illogical.

In a white majority country OF COURSE whites are supposed to commit more crimes. You could only infer whites are more violent if they committed more crime that their share of the overall population should dictate. You can instead only infer that blacks commit more crime without making excuses that simple DO NOT hold up when these stats are compared internationally between places of similar poverty and low education to Africa but just with no black people.

The Problem is compared to the white population blacks commit 7 times more crime rate and thus account for almost half of all rape, robbery and violent crime. In certain categories black commit HALF of all crime. This is viable per the FBI's own stats. If you want the stats to say something different you are going to have to find a less credible source to do so.

There is nothing in the stats that really does anything but suggest blacks are prone to committing more crime irrelevant of whether they are in the US or elsewhere.
DiogenestheDog
Posts: 103
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6/30/2016 12:38:10 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 11:22:22 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

In the US blacks have been underserved with education and job opportunities. To some degree in some areas amongst blacks in schools it is not seen to be cool if you are smart. It's looked as acting white; which in crime riddled areas, gang membership is seen to have higher status value because it brings in cash.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

Many African countries still have familial clan ties and religious differences between them. On top of all of this governments are corrupt which escalates the situation between the haves and have nots.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

Korea and Japan are highly homogeneous cultures, there are very few minorities.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.


Classical Egypt is in Africa, it was a very high culture, along with the Kush, Nubia and the Swahili civilization which was destroyed by the Portuguese in the 1500's

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

Just because the African nations did not resemble European style organization or governments does not make them lesser of. This is an error that is often made. What is not understood culturally often is dismissed as uncivilized; not the case.

There is nothing you have pointed out that Africa has that the most impoverished areas of Asia does not have and yet the crime rate in africa is about 3-5 times higher depending on the type of crime.

Egypt was not an ethnically african civilization but genetically distinct people ingenious to the Nile area. The other African civilizations you mentioned are without a doubt the poorest showing of any old world continent by far and goes to the point of Africa's complete lack of civilizational and historical accomplishments.
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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6/30/2016 12:40:21 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 12:35:44 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:28:31 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It is also reality that whites statistically make up majority of the U.S. population and are convicted for the most violent crimes in the United States. Population aside, can we infer that whites are also inherently violent? Anecdotally, I notice (as well as other minorities) that websites where whites frequent such as discussion boards and music websites (YouTube etc) tend to be frequented by racist whites who use certain videos to expose their own racism, so do we then ignore these trends or can we infer some truth that statistically since whites are a mjority in this country that more likely than not, whites tend to have a racist mindset?

My point is if you are going to look at statistical data for your agenda be prepared to explain the behaviors of other cultures. I can easily infer than more likely than not, I'll find a violent and racist white person before I find a violent and racist black person. The thing you learn in statistics of psychology is what we call confounding factors.

Sorry but what you just wrote was completely illogical.

In a white majority country OF COURSE whites are supposed to commit more crimes. You could only infer whites are more violent if they committed more crime that their share of the overall population should dictate. You can instead only infer that blacks commit more crime without making excuses that simple DO NOT hold up when these stats are compared internationally between places of similar poverty and low education to Africa but just with no black people.

The Problem is compared to the white population blacks commit 7 times more crime rate and thus account for almost half of all rape, robbery and violent crime. In certain categories black commit HALF of all crime. This is viable per the FBI's own stats. If you want the stats to say something different you are going to have to find a less credible source to do so.

There is nothing in the stats that really does anything but suggest blacks are prone to committing more crime irrelevant of whether they are in the US or elsewhere.

Well your thread is a cliche and what you wrote has no point other than to infer something regarding a demographic. My point is WHY ARE WHITES MORE PRONE TO VIOLENCE AND RACISM IF STATISTICALLY AND ANECDOTALLY THESE HAVE BEEN RECORDED?

This is a redundant discussion so I gotta ask what is your point? Since you aren't looking at confounding influences that may contribute to more crime in the black community I have to ask a question regarding whites. It is not illogical to question why whites appear to be more violent and racist.....Which is why I said population aside can we infer internally that there is something going on in the white population?
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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6/30/2016 1:50:16 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 12:38:10 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:22:22 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

In the US blacks have been undeserved with education and job opportunities. To some degree in some areas amongst blacks in schools it is not seen to be cool if you are smart. It's looked as acting white; which in crime riddled areas, gang membership is seen to have higher status value because it brings in cash.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

Many African countries still have familial clan ties and religious differences between them. On top of all of this governments are corrupt which escalates the situation between the haves and have nots.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

Korea and Japan are highly homogeneous cultures, there are very few minorities.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.


Classical Egypt is in Africa, it was a very high culture, along with the Kush, Nubia and the Swahili civilization which was destroyed by the Portuguese in the 1500's

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

Just because the African nations did not resemble European style organization or governments does not make them lesser of. This is an error that is often made. What is not understood culturally often is dismissed as uncivilized; not the case.

There is nothing you have pointed out that Africa has that the most impoverished areas of Asia does not have and yet the crime rate in africa is about 3-5 times higher depending on the type of crime.

Egypt was not an ethnically african civilization but genetically distinct people ingenious to the Nile area. The other African civilizations you mentioned are without a doubt the poorest showing of any old world continent by far and goes to the point of Africa's complete lack of civilizational and historical accomplishments.

This is the issue at hand by who's standard, seen as lacking civilization and accomplishments. It's a Western view point. The Native Americans of the US and South America were seen as uncivilized barbarians because they weren't Christian. They were decimated as a result. Native Americans had a very highly structured society with hiarchal system of governing. The Spanish in South America destroyed city states of hundreds of thousands of people. Again looking at them as uncivilized because of lack of understanding of their cultural structures. If it doesn't have the same quack as my duck, it isn't a duck.
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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6/30/2016 3:38:32 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It has never been about nor will it ever be about race. It has and always will be about attitude and ideology.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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6/30/2016 4:55:36 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
To state the obvious,

OP is implying it's genetic/inherent (this is wrong)

everyone else is flubbering around to find some way to blame it all on other people or making vague appeals to cultural relativism (this is wrong too)

I just think it's funny (which it is)
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
DiogenestheDog
Posts: 103
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6/30/2016 6:28:45 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 12:40:21 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:35:44 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:28:31 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It is also reality that whites statistically make up majority of the U.S. population and are convicted for the most violent crimes in the United States. Population aside, can we infer that whites are also inherently violent? Anecdotally, I notice (as well as other minorities) that websites where whites frequent such as discussion boards and music websites (YouTube etc) tend to be frequented by racist whites who use certain videos to expose their own racism, so do we then ignore these trends or can we infer some truth that statistically since whites are a mjority in this country that more likely than not, whites tend to have a racist mindset?

My point is if you are going to look at statistical data for your agenda be prepared to explain the behaviors of other cultures. I can easily infer than more likely than not, I'll find a violent and racist white person before I find a violent and racist black person. The thing you learn in statistics of psychology is what we call confounding factors.

Sorry but what you just wrote was completely illogical.

In a white majority country OF COURSE whites are supposed to commit more crimes. You could only infer whites are more violent if they committed more crime that their share of the overall population should dictate. You can instead only infer that blacks commit more crime without making excuses that simple DO NOT hold up when these stats are compared internationally between places of similar poverty and low education to Africa but just with no black people.

The Problem is compared to the white population blacks commit 7 times more crime rate and thus account for almost half of all rape, robbery and violent crime. In certain categories black commit HALF of all crime. This is viable per the FBI's own stats. If you want the stats to say something different you are going to have to find a less credible source to do so.

There is nothing in the stats that really does anything but suggest blacks are prone to committing more crime irrelevant of whether they are in the US or elsewhere.

Well your thread is a cliche and what you wrote has no point other than to infer something regarding a demographic. My point is WHY ARE WHITES MORE PRONE TO VIOLENCE AND RACISM IF STATISTICALLY AND ANECDOTALLY THESE HAVE BEEN RECORDED?

This is a redundant discussion so I gotta ask what is your point? Since you aren't looking at confounding influences that may contribute to more crime in the black community I have to ask a question regarding whites. It is not illogical to question why whites appear to be more violent and racist.....Which is why I said population aside can we infer internally that there is something going on in the white population?

The cliche is how the liberals respond to well known stats in America. The new twist of this argument is that it takes international crime rate data and uses that to refute the excuses leftist make for the fact some people of certain races appear to innately be predisposed to commit more crime based on statistics from around the globe.

You can claim whatever you like about whites but I haven't seen any well used empirical stats on your part and just opinion. Just as genetics are a fact of reality so is race and I do not understand or recognize how recognizing the reality of race is an insult except by leftist indoctrination that I no longer partake in. I will feel bad for recognizing the reality of race the day you prove genetics and natural selection responsible for said genetics to be of no consequence which I can say safely shall be never.

It remains per stats of the FBI and Nation master blacks commit 7 times more crime per individual in the US and even 3-5 times more than the worst crime ridden places in Asia like Burma when compared to slightly richer and not notoriously dangerous African nations like Kenya & the Ivory Coast. Never mind about the actual bad parts of Africa!

If you have such similar stats on caucasians you are welcome to share them and we can discuss them. but you need some kind of source and numbers. As for caucasian being especially violence you will find historically that is nonsense since the peoples of Europe were often invaded by easterners for most of history with the expecting of the Macedonians under Alexander, romans who mostly invaded other Europeans, crusaders to the levant, and then only in any sustained fashion since the renaissance.

It was the East that invaded the West first beginning the Achmeniad Persians,, followed by Huns, Bebers, Arabs, Turks, and Mongols who take the cake on violence by any standard unless you are clueless about what the mongols did to the peoples in most of the lands they conquered.
DiogenestheDog
Posts: 103
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6/30/2016 6:39:12 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 1:50:16 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:38:10 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
At 6/29/2016 11:22:22 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

In the US blacks have been undeserved with education and job opportunities. To some degree in some areas amongst blacks in schools it is not seen to be cool if you are smart. It's looked as acting white; which in crime riddled areas, gang membership is seen to have higher status value because it brings in cash.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

Many African countries still have familial clan ties and religious differences between them. On top of all of this governments are corrupt which escalates the situation between the haves and have nots.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

Korea and Japan are highly homogeneous cultures, there are very few minorities.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.


Classical Egypt is in Africa, it was a very high culture, along with the Kush, Nubia and the Swahili civilization which was destroyed by the Portuguese in the 1500's

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

Just because the African nations did not resemble European style organization or governments does not make them lesser of. This is an error that is often made. What is not understood culturally often is dismissed as uncivilized; not the case.

There is nothing you have pointed out that Africa has that the most impoverished areas of Asia does not have and yet the crime rate in africa is about 3-5 times higher depending on the type of crime.

Egypt was not an ethnically african civilization but genetically distinct people ingenious to the Nile area. The other African civilizations you mentioned are without a doubt the poorest showing of any old world continent by far and goes to the point of Africa's complete lack of civilizational and historical accomplishments.

This is the issue at hand by who's standard, seen as lacking civilization and accomplishments. It's a Western view point. The Native Americans of the US and South America were seen as uncivilized barbarians because they weren't Christian. They were decimated as a result. Native Americans had a very highly structured society with hiarchal system of governing. The Spanish in South America destroyed city states of hundreds of thousands of people. Again looking at them as uncivilized because of lack of understanding of their cultural structures. If it doesn't have the same quack as my duck, it isn't a duck.

I've seen this method of rational before, 'civilizational accomplishment is subjective,'

But it is absolutely not. The medicine and scenes produced by the west has allowed population to explode. There are BILLIONS of people alive today that would not be if not for the civilization accomplishments of the west. There is no greater metric of accomplishment than facts like these and you can the internet, reaching the moon, and most of the major technology and science developments to the list.

When is the last time Africans have given anything even remotely close to ONE of these things? Why is it the only thing I can associate with clear rational and numbers to blacks besides rap music is crime rates anywhere between 3-7 times higher than ANYONE anywhere else?

When do we stop pretending and making excuses and confront the issue for what it is? That isn't racism; it is just reality and the first step to addressing issues with our reality is recognizing it. Leftist seem cognitively incapable of doing so even when they have no excuses left and that lack of logic makes any kind of interaction or reasoning impossible. I'm increasingly finding that leftist are all crazy who believe what they believe whatever they have decided or been indoctrinated in even if basic logic and statistics only speaks otherwise.
DiogenestheDog
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6/30/2016 6:48:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 4:55:36 AM, someloser wrote:
To state the obvious,

OP is implying it's genetic/inherent (this is wrong)

everyone else is flubbering around to find some way to blame it all on other people or making vague appeals to cultural relativism (this is wrong too)

I just think it's funny (which it is)

It is funny. Especially that you think genetics are not the overriding reality behind people. Culture and nurture is software; but software is dictated the genetics of the hardware.

It should be obvious even if you TRIED to raise Japanese and Korean kids to be as violent and crime ridden as those in Africa you would fail. Likewise you cannot simply train the African kids to be docile little Asian kids. You can't train them to be innately smarter either and even though I have 2 best friends that are black I have a really hard time saying honesty that even in college I find African people to be of the same intelligence as the average white student. It is not mere education; I've watched the gears turn slower on average for blacks than i have for others. For what it's worth I've also seen blacks run and be more athletic than what is average for others.

What I find so strange is that most people admit so FREELY that certain peoples have genetic benefits; asians are good at math, black people can dance and run a lot, but when it goes the other way, and logic dictates if there should be negative traits just like there are positive traits, the same people cry blasphemy and sacrilege when that is hypocritical really for anyone who has ever made reference to any kind of racial stereotype ever because the bus does not stop with just asians being good at math or blacks being able to run more just because it is uncomfortable for you to go farther.
DiogenestheDog
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6/30/2016 6:51:27 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 3:38:32 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It has never been about nor will it ever be about race. It has and always will be about attitude and ideology.

Those are just excuses as well not far off from the usual ones like cultural bias against blacks in the US, poverty being the cause of crime, or colonial legacies being the cause.

Again, a country like Burma has all these unfortunate things as bad or worse than the African examples. Yet even the worst asian country in terms of crime is better than slightly wealthier middle crime rate countries of Africa.

.
Hiu
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6/30/2016 8:26:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 6:28:45 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:40:21 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:35:44 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
At 6/30/2016 12:28:31 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

It is also reality that whites statistically make up majority of the U.S. population and are convicted for the most violent crimes in the United States. Population aside, can we infer that whites are also inherently violent? Anecdotally, I notice (as well as other minorities) that websites where whites frequent such as discussion boards and music websites (YouTube etc) tend to be frequented by racist whites who use certain videos to expose their own racism, so do we then ignore these trends or can we infer some truth that statistically since whites are a mjority in this country that more likely than not, whites tend to have a racist mindset?

My point is if you are going to look at statistical data for your agenda be prepared to explain the behaviors of other cultures. I can easily infer than more likely than not, I'll find a violent and racist white person before I find a violent and racist black person. The thing you learn in statistics of psychology is what we call confounding factors.

Sorry but what you just wrote was completely illogical.

In a white majority country OF COURSE whites are supposed to commit more crimes. You could only infer whites are more violent if they committed more crime that their share of the overall population should dictate. You can instead only infer that blacks commit more crime without making excuses that simple DO NOT hold up when these stats are compared internationally between places of similar poverty and low education to Africa but just with no black people.

The Problem is compared to the white population blacks commit 7 times more crime rate and thus account for almost half of all rape, robbery and violent crime. In certain categories black commit HALF of all crime. This is viable per the FBI's own stats. If you want the stats to say something different you are going to have to find a less credible source to do so.

There is nothing in the stats that really does anything but suggest blacks are prone to committing more crime irrelevant of whether they are in the US or elsewhere.

Well your thread is a cliche and what you wrote has no point other than to infer something regarding a demographic. My point is WHY ARE WHITES MORE PRONE TO VIOLENCE AND RACISM IF STATISTICALLY AND ANECDOTALLY THESE HAVE BEEN RECORDED?

This is a redundant discussion so I gotta ask what is your point? Since you aren't looking at confounding influences that may contribute to more crime in the black community I have to ask a question regarding whites. It is not illogical to question why whites appear to be more violent and racist.....Which is why I said population aside can we infer internally that there is something going on in the white population?

The cliche is how the liberals respond to well known stats in America. The new twist of this argument is that it takes international crime rate data and uses that to refute the excuses leftist make for the fact some people of certain races appear to innately be predisposed to commit more crime based on statistics from around the globe.

You can claim whatever you like about whites but I haven't seen any well used empirical stats on your part and just opinion. Just as genetics are a fact of reality so is race and I do not understand or recognize how recognizing the reality of race is an insult except by leftist indoctrination that I no longer partake in. I will feel bad for recognizing the reality of race the day you prove genetics and natural selection responsible for said genetics to be of no consequence which I can say safely shall be never.

It remains per stats of the FBI and Nation master blacks commit 7 times more crime per individual in the US and even 3-5 times more than the worst crime ridden places in Asia like Burma when compared to slightly richer and not notoriously dangerous African nations like Kenya & the Ivory Coast. Never mind about the actual bad parts of Africa!

If you have such similar stats on caucasians you are welcome to share them and we can discuss them. but you need some kind of source and numbers. As for caucasian being especially violence you will find historically that is nonsense since the peoples of Europe were often invaded by easterners for most of history with the expecting of the Macedonians under Alexander, romans who mostly invaded other Europeans, crusaders to the levant, and then only in any sustained fashion since the renaissance.

It was the East that invaded the West first beginning the Achmeniad Persians,, followed by Huns, Bebers, Arabs, Turks, and Mongols who take the cake on violence by any standard unless you are clueless about what the mongols did to the peoples in most of the lands they conquered.

The issue I'm having in this thread is the purpose of the presupposed question which indicates some sort of racist motive. The discussion of crime in the black community has been heavily discussed and although you posed the question, the crux of the issue at hand has been addressed ad nauseum. I find that discussions such as this only infers indirectly that such crimes are attributed to an inherent predisposition of a particular demographic.Now, if we are going to criticize one group, I believe we need to, in fairness compare across the board. In response to the OP, one must consider some fundamental factors that are present in some crime committed by blacks.
Hiu
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6/30/2016 8:35:13 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
In addition to my post answering the OP:

"Two competing explanations for these large race disparities have been proposed. The first, referred to here as the "differential involvement hypothesis," is that Blacks simply commit more crime and more of the types of crime (e.g., violence) that lead to official criminal justice system processing (Blumstein, 1982, 1993; Wilbanks, 1987), and Blacks also continue to commit crime (especially that of violence) into adulthood when White rates appear to decrease (Elliott, 1994).2 The second hypothesis, referred to here as the "differential criminal justice system selection hypothesis," asserts that differential police presence, patrolling, and profiling, combined with discrimination in the courts and correctional systems, leads to more Blacks being arrested, convicted, and incarcerated (Chambliss, 1994, 1995; Hindelang, 1978; Tonry, 1995; Zimring & Hawkins, 1997). It is also the case that this hypothesis is more likely to apply to the sorts of (victimless) crimes in which there is more discretion available to agents of formal social control (e.g., drug use, "public order" crimes, etc.). Self-report studies that show a somewhat weaker statistical association between race and criminal behavior have been used to support this position."

See:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Interestingly enough, this source provided some interesting theories regarding minority over representation when it comes to crime. However the following is statistically true:

Arrests, by Race, 2012
In 2012, 69.3 percent of all individuals arrested were white, 28.1 percent were black, and 2.6 percent were of other races.
Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2012, 65.2 percent were white, 32.2 percent were black, and 2.5 percent were of other races.
Of all adults arrested in 2012, 69.7 were white, 27.6 percent were black, and 2.7 percent were of other races.
White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 58.7 percent of those arrests.
The percentages of black adults and white adults arrested for murder were similar, with 49.3 percent being black and 48.3 percent being white.
Black juveniles accounted for 51.5 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes. White juveniles accounted for 61.6 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes.
Of the juveniles arrested for drug abuse violations, 74.0 percent were white.
White juveniles accounted for 55.2 percent of juveniles arrested for aggravated assaults.

See:
https://www.fbi.gov...
DiogenestheDog
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6/30/2016 7:10:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago

The issue I'm having in this thread is the purpose of the presupposed question which indicates some sort of racist motive. The discussion of crime in the black community has been heavily discussed and although you posed the question, the crux of the issue at hand has been addressed ad nauseum. I find that discussions such as this only infers indirectly that such crimes are attributed to an inherent predisposition of a particular demographic.Now, if we are going to criticize one group, I believe we need to, in fairness compare across the board. In response to the OP, one must consider some fundamental factors that are present in some crime committed by blacks.

lets be serious; you don't care what the motive is. I'm not racist in any traditional sense as I have friends of every race but that has nothing to do with the stats or reality of what immigration does to a host population.

The way leftist are unable to believe completely solid facts, statistics, and logic and insist on some kind of excuse for blacks is indicative of mental illness I usually only see in dogmatic religious people. You can watch science prove your God false but you would sit there praying like a fool anyway.

The fact dogmatic people like you pretend they have any kind of righteousness about them is how the world goes into another dark age that next time ends in nuclear holocaust.

There has been no discussion in the back community at all. What was their response to the death of a monster like Micheal brown that the world is a better place without a wannabe gangster bully who probably hurt a lot of people ? They rioted and committed even more violent crime and acted like they are justified?! For someone who was a stealing selfish thief who made cars walk around him as he waltzed down the middle of the road and probably would have killed anyone who crosse him judging about how he had so little issue breaking bones in an armed police officers face?

I'm glad that gorilla is dead and the response from the black community and BLM at large shows they do not take responsibiloty for their own wrongs and the consequences and instead use the liberal retarded excuses of prejeduice when that is not appropriate in light of the fact blacks do commit more crime than anyone else and not for excuses that have to do with poverty or low education because of groups in the U.S. And in other countries do not share their crime rates even with WORSE conditions.

At some point you must realize who will never fix the issue of crime until you stop making excuses for those who perpetrate it. There is no excuses for crime; not poverty, nothing but starvation would justify it and these people are just greedy and feel entitled, not starving. Just looking to bully and steal and rape and think it's everyone else's faultthey do so because idiots like you tell them so, give them a free pass, and let them riot and burn buildings cars, loot shops so try can protest their right to commit crime against other people's.
someloser
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6/30/2016 9:44:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 6:48:17 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Especially that you think genetics are not the overriding reality behind people.
there is no "overriding reality" behind people.

Phenotype != Genes + Environment

and...in many cases...certainly for humanity as a whole, E <! G.

one can't just say "genes determine x", or "genes are more important". or "environment determines x/is more important".

it's not universal. at all.

P = G x E

humans are like cake. you can't isolate the flour and call it "the overriding reality" behind the cake.

Culture and nurture is software; but software is dictated the genetics of the hardware.
hardware does virtually nothing on its own.

I agree that there are genetic differences, and they probably extend to psychological traits.

but they don't work the way you think they do.

"the norms of reaction" apply to humans too.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
someloser
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6/30/2016 9:54:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 6:39:12 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
I've seen this method of rational before, 'civilizational accomplishment is subjective,'
it's moronic, i agree.

there is an obvious problem with citing "civilizational accomplishment" as evidence of genetic deficiencies...mainly that there are too many fvcking confounders.

surprised others haven't pointed it out yet.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Peepette
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6/30/2016 11:38:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
In the US blacks have been undeserved with education and job opportunities. To some degree in some areas amongst blacks in schools it is not seen to be cool if you are smart. It's looked as acting white; which in crime riddled areas, gang membership is seen to have higher status value because it brings in cash.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.


Just because the African nations did not resemble European style organization or governments does not make them lesser of. This is an error that is often made. What is not understood culturally often is dismissed as uncivilized; not the case.

This is the issue at hand by who's standard, seen as lacking civilization and accomplishments. It's a Western view point. The Native Americans of the US and South America were seen as uncivilized barbarians because they weren't Christian. They were decimated as a result. Native Americans had a very highly structured society with hiarchal system of governing. The Spanish in South America destroyed city states of hundreds of thousands of people. Again looking at them as uncivilized because of lack of understanding of their cultural structures. If it doesn't have the same quack as my duck, it isn't a duck.

I've seen this method of rational before, 'civilization accomplishment is subjective,'

But it is absolutely not. The medicine and scenes produced by the west has allowed population to explode. There are BILLIONS of people alive today that would not be if not for the civilization accomplishments of the west.

Medicinal botanist are still delving into the knowledge of shamans and medicine men and women of native cultures to find cures for diseases. Thousands of years of passed down knowledge still has great value.

There is no greater metric of accomplishment than facts like these and you can the Internet, reaching the moon, and most of the major technology and science developments to the list.

Surely technological advancement are attributes, but stable old social organizations that have not changed for millenniums because they work, and are un-influenced by the greater world and politics also has value and something that can be learned from.

When is the last time Africans have given anything even remotely close to ONE of these things?

Nelson Mandella, Desmond Tutu, Dave Matthews ( yes he's African), Col. Guion Bluford - Astronaut, Evan B Forde - Oceanographer, Dr. Aprille Ericsson - NASA, Antony Mutua- inventor, African from Camaroon- Arthur Zang inventor of cardi-pad medical device. Lindsay Stevenson-cybertracker inventor of monitor and data collector for various forms of wild life. 8,000 years ago the Yoruba people (Nigeria) developed a mathematical system. 300 BC The Dogon people of Mali; extremely accurate astrological charting including Saturn's rings and Jupiter's moons. Salicylic acid for pain (as in aspirin), Kaopectate, ouabain, capsicum, physostigmine and reserpine all developed by native Africans . Shall I continue................................

Why is it the only thing I can associate with clear rational and numbers to blacks besides rap music is crime rates anywhere between 3-7 times higher than ANYONE anywhere else?

Yes, I will not deny there is a crime issue with African Americans due to lack of educational and job opportunities in urban areas as well as the slum culture hyped as being preferable amongst the young ( rap music and gangs) Along with being smart is not looked upon as advantageous. If you look at the past with Jim Crow laws and stereotypes many false assumptions are made. I work at a local college in Massachusetts that is 25% Black in a town that is less then 2% in black population. I have met students and parents that value education above all else. The parents and kids are wonderful people that are a joy to encounter. The media paints a bleak picture of only urban problems and does not focus on the positive, which I've seen a good deal.

When do we stop pretending and making excuses and confront the issue for what it is? That isn't racism; it is just reality and the first step to addressing issues with our reality is recognizing it. Leftist seem cognitively incapable of doing so even when they have no excuses left and that lack of logic makes any kind of interaction or reasoning impossible. I'm increasingly finding that leftist are all crazy who believe what they believe whatever they have decided or been indoctrinated in even if basic logic and statistics only speaks otherwise.

I won't deny the statistics, but there is a lot more going on here that bucks against the media view point. A white kids caught with pot will get a slap on the wrist while a black kid gets 5 yrs in prison. This does not help the familial dynamic when 1 in 4 black are incarcerated, the family bread winner is in jail. This breaks apart families and brings instability. Is it no wonder that black are antagonistic? .
Hiu
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7/1/2016 12:23:43 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 7:10:28 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:

The issue I'm having in this thread is the purpose of the presupposed question which indicates some sort of racist motive. The discussion of crime in the black community has been heavily discussed and although you posed the question, the crux of the issue at hand has been addressed ad nauseum. I find that discussions such as this only infers indirectly that such crimes are attributed to an inherent predisposition of a particular demographic.Now, if we are going to criticize one group, I believe we need to, in fairness compare across the board. In response to the OP, one must consider some fundamental factors that are present in some crime committed by blacks.

lets be serious; you don't care what the motive is. I'm not racist in any traditional sense as I have friends of every race but that has nothing to do with the stats or reality of what immigration does to a host population.

The way leftist are unable to believe completely solid facts, statistics, and logic and insist on some kind of excuse for blacks is indicative of mental illness I usually only see in dogmatic religious people. You can watch science prove your God false but you would sit there praying like a fool anyway.

The fact dogmatic people like you pretend they have any kind of righteousness about them is how the world goes into another dark age that next time ends in nuclear holocaust.

There has been no discussion in the back community at all. What was their response to the death of a monster like Micheal brown that the world is a better place without a wannabe gangster bully who probably hurt a lot of people ? They rioted and committed even more violent crime and acted like they are justified?! For someone who was a stealing selfish thief who made cars walk around him as he waltzed down the middle of the road and probably would have killed anyone who crosse him judging about how he had so little issue breaking bones in an armed police officers face?

I'm glad that gorilla is dead and the response from the black community and BLM at large shows they do not take responsibiloty for their own wrongs and the consequences and instead use the liberal retarded excuses of prejeduice when that is not appropriate in light of the fact blacks do commit more crime than anyone else and not for excuses that have to do with poverty or low education because of groups in the U.S. And in other countries do not share their crime rates even with WORSE conditions.

At some point you must realize who will never fix the issue of crime until you stop making excuses for those who perpetrate it. There is no excuses for crime; not poverty, nothing but starvation would justify it and these people are just greedy and feel entitled, not starving. Just looking to bully and steal and rape and think it's everyone else's faultthey do so because idiots like you tell them so, give them a free pass, and let them riot and burn buildings cars, loot shops so try can protest their right to commit crime against other people's.

Dogmatic? You didn't even challenge the two posts I made....Again this discussion has been discussed ad nauseum. It's easy for people to criticize "black on black" crime without introducing confounding factors....Have a good day this threa dis useless.
Willows
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7/1/2016 10:35:02 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

Its interesting to note how racists prefer to operate covertly in order to push their distorted, disgusting agenda on others. Your post deserves absolutely no response at all from anyone with any amount of intelligence and decency.
keithprosser
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7/1/2016 5:44:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Diogenes wrote:
"It should be obvious even if you TRIED to raise Japanese and Korean kids to be as violent and crime ridden as those in Africa you would fail. Likewise you cannot simply train the African kids to be docile little Asian kids. You can't train them to be innately smarter either and even though I have 2 best friends that are black I have a really hard time saying honesty that even in college I find African people to be of the same intelligence as the average white student. It is not mere education; I've watched the gears turn slower on average for blacks than i have for others. For what it's worth I've also seen blacks run and be more athletic than what is average for others."

Is anyone with such views going to change their mind?
janesix
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7/1/2016 7:03:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

The truth has to be admitted for anything to be done about it. Luckily the black population is still low, but the way the breed it wont be long befor every major city looks like detroit.
Willows
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7/2/2016 7:23:55 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Let's try this shall we?:

Round up as many white supremacist, racist bigots as we can, put chains on their wrists and ankles then pack them into an animal container ship headed for Africa. They are lazy, good for nothing and unintelligent anyway.

Once there, they can be turned into slaves to work for the local black communities. The locals can whip and rape the slaves at will. After a couple of generations these slaves and their offspring are freed but are not allowed to integrate with the community, have no educational opportunities and only allowed to frequent designated areas. They are literally born into poverty with low self-esteem.

Now let's count up what percentage of white people are clogging up the prison system.
DiogenestheDog
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7/2/2016 8:15:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 5:44:39 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
"It should be obvious even if you TRIED to raise Japanese and Korean kids to be as violent and crime ridden as those in Africa you would fail. Likewise you cannot simply train the African kids to be docile little Asian kids. You can't train them to be innately smarter either and even though I have 2 best friends that are black I have a really hard time saying honesty that even in college I find African people to be of the same intelligence as the average white student. It is not mere education; I've watched the gears turn slower on average for blacks than i have for others. For what it's worth I've also seen blacks run and be more athletic than what is average for others."

Is anyone with such views going to change their mind?

Views backed up by statistical and empirical observation. Supported by the FBI's stats on crime committed by race and NationMasters for international comparisons. Not judgements made from whatever PC dogma fed BS fed me since I was born like most of you; I grew up in the diversity of LA with friends of every color and I'm just not willing to LIE to myself and others and say there are never any kind of difference between people because of genetics when it is the basis for almost all differences.

Frankly the wold is racist against whites because it is only whites that apparently can't have heir own country and have to be genocided by mass immigrate. I don't care what people advocating genocided like leftists do will ever think. BUT maybe the left-tardw ill listen to a Blackman who inspired many of my views? A man named Thomas Sowell

Would you believe that even on the of the smartest black men in the US who is a leading member of the Chicago school of economics and won the national humanities medal in the US (like he government's nobel prize in humanities subjects) has also written that at large black students are NOT as smart as whites students and he blames things like affirmative action saying it shouldn't exist?

This coming from a kid who grew up in a neighborhood so black he DID NOT EVEN see a blonde white person till he was 9 years old. But he admits blacks on average are dumber and shouldn't be given spots in schools despite the fact.

He can admit reality and get a MEDAL for it. The liberal idiots just bury their head in the sand and pretend they didn't hear it just like they lie to themselves about crime stats in the US and internationally.

The retarded dogmatic liberals can't believe basic statistical evidence and math because it hurts their silly little conception of reality. Such people are so stupid they are disease and danger to humanities long term survival because they don't care about or operate in basic facts, logic, or reality. It is a wonder liberals even accept that 2+2=4 is a fact. If you made it somehow 2+2 racial make no mistake they WOULD deny it rather than admit any minor reality about what race means.
DiogenestheDog
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7/2/2016 8:38:59 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 5:44:39 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
"It should be obvious even if you TRIED to raise Japanese and Korean kids to be as violent and crime ridden as those in Africa you would fail. Likewise you cannot simply train the African kids to be docile little Asian kids. You can't train them to be innately smarter either and even though I have 2 best friends that are black I have a really hard time saying honesty that even in college I find African people to be of the same intelligence as the average white student. It is not mere education; I've watched the gears turn slower on average for blacks than i have for others. For what it's worth I've also seen blacks run and be more athletic than what is average for others."

Is anyone with such views going to change their mind?

Actually my personal experience on black students being dumber on average is supported by a leading member of the chicago school of economics, winner of the national humanities medal (like national nobel prize for humanities) and he is a BLACK man.

-IF white people sold other white people into slavery
-If whites had 3-5 times the violent crime, robbery, and rape rate as blacks,
-If in the last 3000 years whites had never built a civilization of any merit ever and never contributed anything to technology

Then they would be like blacks and their situation would be their own fault just like it is for the blacks. It would be stupid for other people to make u[ excuses for their lack of accomplishment, higher crime rate, and lack of qualities that make them fit in or build high civilizations.

I'm not advocating slavery though. I'm advocating the deporting of Africans and other peoples out of western countries where they don't fit in and disrupt the society and genocide the host population with colonization/mass immigration. Africans belong in Africa. African's being in western countries is more vil than the colonial times of westerns being in other countries because African's are not spreading important sciences and information at all and just spreading crimes and rape. So liberals are more evil than the colonials of the 1800s. and you should never think otherwise.

Liberals are more evil than the KKK really. Why? KKK just wanted to deport blacks... Liberals want to genocide whites and western societ everywhere they exist.

Liberals demand the GLOBAL genocide of white people by subjecting their populations to mass immigration year after year. Liberalism taken to its ultimate conclusion would not allow the survival of a white people anywhere that as not made into a minority (loses basic right to self determination) and oppressed by foreigner and subjected to high levels of rape and crime by the same foreigners on top of their colonization/mass immigration, and stealing of western jobs and homes. And when you blame the people responsible for the mass rape and social problems? Liberal idiots refuse to accept the reality even when their are giant gangs of black people running around pillaging in burning just because another black criminal who deserved to get shot actually got shot. Wow.... Why don't you just bend over and hurry already while you're at it?

This is the status quo and a fact. Because of mass immigration we have watched the white population of every Western country as a % drop. And it will never stop dropping the way liberals have made immigration. It is therefore ON LIBERALS to explain how this does NOT LEAD to genocide over time and why it will ever stop when they create conditions where you cannot talk about stopping it.

Brain dead liberals cannot explain how it would eventually magically stop one day Just like how they cannot explain why blacks have 3-5 times more crime even than the WORST poor places in Asia like Burma that has less GDP per Capita than places likeKenya and Ivory Coast and as little education but the African still have 3-5 times the robbery, rape, and violent crime rape. They resort to nonsense excuses and avoid the reality.

Thus Liberals are evil beyond measure as they both champion and allow crime and social degeneracy, champion the rape and genocide of western peoples, and don't have the brain power to use any kind of basic logic, statistics, or sense of decency when they condemn all western peoples to slow motion genocide and death by immigration and crime.

I'll say this also. I had a family ember held at knife point at almost raped by an immigrant. You will NEVER tell me someone else's failures should allow them to come where they don't belong and rape and rob just basically because their civilization as a failure and our is better.
I despise that somehow people MAKE EXCUSES for and allow their people. NOT ONE OF THEM deserve to be in our country if that means anyone's family is put at risk of crime, rape, or robbery. End of story.
DiogenestheDog
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7/2/2016 8:43:23 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/1/2016 10:35:02 AM, Willows wrote:
At 6/29/2016 7:41:51 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Rather than making a Debate to see how one person responds I'm interested in any and all responses anyone of a leftist political orientation might have.

For Example:

First the US: Africans have 7 times the violent crime and rape rate in the US as whites per INDIVIDUAL; they commit between 32%-52% of all violent, rape, and robbery crimes despite only comprising 13% of the population. Stats from the F.B.I. crime stats Table 43; cannot post url link.

This cannot be explained away by mere poverty, colonial legacy, or by bias because globally African nations also show the same trend against any nation you could compare them to.

For example Burma is both poorer and has as bad a history of colonial oppression as any African country; Burma's per Capita income is $1,292 while the Ivory Coast and Kenya's is 1,315 and 1,388 respectively. Also clearly there is no police force bias in african countries against africans.

Note that neither of these African countries is thought of as particularly bad or unsafe compared to other parts of Africa and while Burma is considered one of the worst in Asia in terms of Crime. And YET the two African Nations both have anywhere between 3-5 times as many violent crimes, rapes, and murders as Myanmar/Burma. Stats from NationMaster.

This same trend holds true no matter who you compare african countries too; poverty doesn't determine who has more crime; the presence of Africans people is the biggest guarantee to higher crime rates that there exists.

It works the other way too; east asian societies in Korea and japan have the lowest violent crime rates.

This is not PC but it is reality. And it really just kinda jives with the trend of Africa's low civilizational/historical accomplishments.

Very interested in how anyone/everyone of a left oriented perspective would respond.

Its interesting to note how racists prefer to operate covertly in order to push their distorted, disgusting agenda on others. Your post deserves absolutely no response at all from anyone with any amount of intelligence and decency.

What you should have wrote is: "I'm just another liberal retard fed the BS since the cradle and I don't have the brain power to do any kind of math or think for myself."

There is nothing covert out it. The opening title said it was RACIAL and that is what it has been. You are more than brain dead if you liked on something about racial data and then say it was hidden.

It doesn't NEED TO BE HIDDEN anymore than 2+2 does; everyone knows it is true but the only difference is people are too scared to say it out loud. Whenever people are scared to say the truth openly, as you wish for it be, you know you live in an evil world full of terrible lies and disgusting truths you hide from. Just because you hide the ugly truths of the world does not make them any less real but you personally just that much more pathetic.

I was born like you and became different because I wasn't as brain dead or stupid to listen to lies told to me since I was born and could see the numbers and truth of the world for myself.
DiogenestheDog
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7/2/2016 8:51:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 8:35:13 AM, Hiu wrote:
In addition to my post answering the OP:

"Two competing explanations for these large race disparities have been proposed. The first, referred to here as the "differential involvement hypothesis," is that Blacks simply commit more crime and more of the types of crime (e.g., violence) that lead to official criminal justice system processing (Blumstein, 1982, 1993; Wilbanks, 1987), and Blacks also continue to commit crime (especially that of violence) into adulthood when White rates appear to decrease (Elliott, 1994).2 The second hypothesis, referred to here as the "differential criminal justice system selection hypothesis," asserts that differential police presence, patrolling, and profiling, combined with discrimination in the courts and correctional systems, leads to more Blacks being arrested, convicted, and incarcerated (Chambliss, 1994, 1995; Hindelang, 1978; Tonry, 1995; Zimring & Hawkins, 1997). It is also the case that this hypothesis is more likely to apply to the sorts of (victimless) crimes in which there is more discretion available to agents of formal social control (e.g., drug use, "public order" crimes, etc.). Self-report studies that show a somewhat weaker statistical association between race and criminal behavior have been used to support this position."

See:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Interestingly enough, this source provided some interesting theories regarding minority over representation when it comes to crime. However the following is statistically true:

Arrests, by Race, 2012
In 2012, 69.3 percent of all individuals arrested were white, 28.1 percent were black, and 2.6 percent were of other races.
Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2012, 65.2 percent were white, 32.2 percent were black, and 2.5 percent were of other races.
Of all adults arrested in 2012, 69.7 were white, 27.6 percent were black, and 2.7 percent were of other races.
White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 58.7 percent of those arrests.
The percentages of black adults and white adults arrested for murder were similar, with 49.3 percent being black and 48.3 percent being white.
Black juveniles accounted for 51.5 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes. White juveniles accounted for 61.6 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes.
Of the juveniles arrested for drug abuse violations, 74.0 percent were white.
White juveniles accounted for 55.2 percent of juveniles arrested for aggravated assaults.


See:
https://www.fbi.gov...

Your data is just more vague than mine. By focusing on 3 times of crime, robbery, rape, and violent crime, you can't uses white collar crime stats of whites to say whites are as violent.

When you look at crime by type it becomes by clear black commit 32-56% of all rape, violent crime, and robbery even thought there are 7-8 times more white people for every black person.

To be purchases FBI table 43 sows blacks commit 52% of all murder and violent crime,
56% of robbery, and 31.33% of rapes.

https://www.fbi.gov...

SO your whole post is meaningless because it is just a more vague version of the same stats I showed. Except being more vague just serves to help to obstruct the reality instead of clarifying it.

SO there is NOTHING to answer.
DiogenestheDog
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7/2/2016 8:56:42 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/30/2016 9:44:37 PM, someloser wrote:
At 6/30/2016 6:48:17 AM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Especially that you think genetics are not the overriding reality behind people.
there is no "overriding reality" behind people.

Phenotype != Genes + Environment

and...in many cases...certainly for humanity as a whole, E <! G.

one can't just say "genes determine x", or "genes are more important". or "environment determines x/is more important".

it's not universal. at all.

P = G x E

humans are like cake. you can't isolate the flour and call it "the overriding reality" behind the cake.

Culture and nurture is software; but software is dictated the genetics of the hardware.
hardware does virtually nothing on its own.

I agree that there are genetic differences, and they probably extend to psychological traits.

but they don't work the way you think they do.

"the norms of reaction" apply to humans too.

Did you really just say environment determines phenotype? How crazy are you?

By that logic just because I grew up in Africa I would look like blackman. Clearly that is completely stupid.

Of course hardware does nothing without software; you are talking about a brain dead corpse then.

But WHAT software you can run is limited by he hardware. Some hardware components are more capable than other or more flexible and have hardwiring better suited to certain tasks.

You can program other peoples with whatever culture you want but how they perform ultimately is going to come down to their genes. This is how it is elite sports and in elite intelligence.

You can't create an elite tennis of football player with mere conditioning. You cannot create a more civilized population out of a less civilized one with mere conditioning either. At some point it is undeniably genetic because the genetics, hardware, predetermined the limiters of what the software can achieve with the hardware.
someloser
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7/3/2016 7:17:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/2/2016 8:56:42 PM, DiogenestheDog wrote:
Did you really just say environment determines phenotype?
No.

How crazy are you?
Just a little.

Of course hardware does nothing without software; you are talking about a brain dead corpse then.

But WHAT software you can run is limited by he hardware. Some hardware components are more capable than other or more flexible and have hardwiring better suited to certain tasks.

You can program other peoples with whatever culture you want but how they perform ultimately is going to come down to their genes. This is how it is elite sports and in elite intelligence.

You can't create an elite tennis of football player with mere conditioning. You cannot create a more civilized population out of a less civilized one with mere conditioning either. At some point it is undeniably genetic because the genetics, hardware, predetermined the limiters of what the software can achieve with the hardware.
You didn't understand anything I said.

The expression of genes is moderated by environment. This does NOT mean the environment is all that matters, or that genetic effects do not exist.

But it DOES mean that genetic effects do not exist independently of place and time. This is particularly the case when it comes to human psychological traits.

Would a feral child grow up to be "normal", if only they had good nutrition? Of course not. Human psychological traits cannot be understood outside the context of any given social environment.

This, obviously, does NOT mean genes can't play a role. And, obviously, characterizing environment-dependent genetic effects as "environmental" is just absurd.

As I pointed out elsewhere...blacks in Africa today perform better on IQ tests than American whites during the early 1900s. And Africa is much worse than early 1900s America. In every way.

Of course, the idea that genes are all that matters cannot explain this. But neither can the environment-only/mostly explanation.

The obvious answer is they're both bullshjt.

Does this mean that you'll get "equality" if you raise blacks and whites in the same environment, as the equalitardians insist? No!

In fact, I would argue that the only place we would get "equality" is if groups are raised in different environments.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw