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Rape Laws in Germany

PetersSmith
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7/7/2016 6:20:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
A study into sexual abuse sponsored by the European Commission and conducted by the Vienna-based Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) showed Germany above the EU average with 35% having suffered physical and/or sexual violence (http://fra.europa.eu...). The survey also revealed that one in three women have been victims of physical or sexual abuse in Europe (http://www.dw.com...).

Recently, the migrants in Germany have caused quite the stir. During the 2016 New Year's Eve celebrations, hundreds of sexual assaults (including groping), numerous thefts, and at least five rapes were reported in Germany. All of the incidents involved women being surrounded and assaulted by groups of men on the street. There were more than 1,900 victims and it is reported that up to 1,000 men may have been involved in Cologne (http://www.dw.com...). The problem was that the "overwhelming majority" of the offenders were asylum seekers and illegal immigrants who had recently arrived in Germany (http://www.express.co.uk...). Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. Recently there have been a surge of a surge in sex crimes by immigrants at German public swimming pools. Ever since New Year's the number of migrants - men from sexually repressive Muslim countries - attacking scantily clad women and children at swimming baths has continue to soar (http://www.dailymail.co.uk...).

What does German law have to say? Germany's legal definition of rape has been criticized for being too narrow, and there are political discussions of reforming the law, so that it complies with the Istanbul convention. Anita Eckhardt of Germany"s Federal Association of Women"s Counseling Centers and said "It was only in 1997 that rape within a married couple was found to be punishable" and that Germany's conservative values are to blame (http://www.mintpressnews.com...). Under Germany's rape laws, sexual assault is only classified as rape if sex is forced by violence, specific threats or if the perpetrator exploits the vulnerability of the victim. Saying "no" did not qualify as "rape" in Germany's law. The Istanbul Convention classifies rape as any "non-consensual, conduct of a sexual nature" (http://www.dw.com...).

Why does this matter? Well, today Germany has officially changed their rape laws. Germany's parliament passed a new law saying that it is rape to have sex with a person who says "No" to the sex. The new law also classifies groping as a sex crime, makes it easier to deport migrants who commit sex offences, and makes it easier to prosecute assaults committed by a large group. See a connection there? Hopefully you do. The "No means No" is suggested to increase the number of victims who choose to press charges, lower the number of criminal prosecutions that are shelved and ensure sexual assaults are properly punished, as well as take into account both physical and verbal cues from the victim when assessing whether rape took place. "No" now proves lack of consent and therefore rape (http://www.bbc.com...).

So, what do you guys think about this development? Do you think the new law will help solve the rape crisis in Germany? Do you think the migrants really are to blame? Do you think this law still won't do enough, will do just enough, or do you think maybe it's too broad and needs to return to being narrow? Do you think Germany's "conservative values" are really to blame? What do you think the punishment for rape should be, specifically in regards to these migrants? What is your assessment on Germany's border control laws and accepting these migrants into their country? What do you propose should be done to help continue to enforce the law and prevent harm in Germany? Or do the Germans deserve it because they're Nazis? Discuss.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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AnnaCzereda
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7/7/2016 10:34:59 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I do agree with you that No means No but how to prove it in court that the woman said No? What if she had a consensual sex and changed her mind afterwards and the innocent guy goes to prison? You know... if there are witnesses, then the case is simple. If there are no witnesses but the woman was examined by the doctor, it's still visible whether she was taken by force. I think that I don't have to elaborate on that. If the woman says "no" but then has sex though no one forces her to do so... I just don't get it, sorry.
He wished to turn his countenance from the smoldering rubble, but saw from amidst the embers that a few chaff would not burn away. To these, he stared into the eye of God sneering, and called them, 'Promethean.'
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
So, what do you guys think about this development?
It's good, obviously.
Do you think the new law will help solve the rape crisis in Germany?
I dunno.
Do you think the migrants really are to blame?
Yeah, but mostly immigration policy is to blame.
Do you think this law still won't do enough, will do just enough, or do you think maybe it's too broad and needs to return to being narrow?
Sounds about right. I think it's just the norm.
Do you think Germany's "conservative values" are really to blame?
Don't know enough about German society to comment...
What do you think the punishment for rape should be, specifically in regards to these migrants?
At least 30 years. Life imprisonment in probably most cases.
What is your assessment on Germany's border control laws and accepting these migrants into their country?
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.
What do you propose should be done to help continue to enforce the law and prevent harm in Germany?
Most of us aren't from Germany and thus aren't really in a position to comment, I think. But tightening up immigration policy ought to be an important part of the latter.
Or do the Germans deserve it because they're Nazis? Discuss.
Obviously not lol.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

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PetersSmith
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7/8/2016 1:56:01 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.

This surprised me. What made you choose this position?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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7/8/2016 2:03:20 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
It's good, but not good enough.

How to fix the rape crisis? Just cut the knot.

Mass repatriations or bust.
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Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/8/2016 5:26:31 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 1:56:01 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.

This surprised me. What made you choose this position?

We've been having our fair share of refugee problems.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,848
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7/8/2016 5:27:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:26:31 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:56:01 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.

This surprised me. What made you choose this position?

We've been having our fair share of refugee problems.

It's not the Mongolians, is it?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/8/2016 5:29:24 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:27:17 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:26:31 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:56:01 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.

This surprised me. What made you choose this position?

We've been having our fair share of refugee problems.

It's not the Mongolians, is it?
No lol, South Asian (mostly Pakistani) refugees. They seem to be manipulated by triads and commit a lot of crime.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,848
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7/8/2016 5:30:08 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:29:24 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:27:17 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:26:31 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:56:01 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.

This surprised me. What made you choose this position?

We've been having our fair share of refugee problems.

It's not the Mongolians, is it?
No lol, South Asian (mostly Pakistani) refugees. They seem to be manipulated by triads and commit a lot of crime.

That sucks. Hong Kong already has enough problems.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/8/2016 5:35:48 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:30:08 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:29:24 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:27:17 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 5:26:31 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:56:01 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 7/8/2016 1:48:26 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Allowing refugees to integrate into society is never a good idea. Establish refugee camps and provide basic humanitarian aid, but don't let them in unless they've demonstrated that they abandon their former culture and fully integrate into the new one.

This surprised me. What made you choose this position?

We've been having our fair share of refugee problems.

It's not the Mongolians, is it?
No lol, South Asian (mostly Pakistani) refugees. They seem to be manipulated by triads and commit a lot of crime.

That sucks. Hong Kong already has enough problems.

Yeah... We're still among the safest cities in the world (contrary to what you see in the movies), but that may change if we don't do something about the problem.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Fernyx
Posts: 326
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7/14/2016 4:04:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/7/2016 6:20:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
A study into sexual abuse sponsored by the European Commission and conducted by the Vienna-based Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) showed Germany above the EU average with 35% having suffered physical and/or sexual violence (http://fra.europa.eu...). The survey also revealed that one in three women have been victims of physical or sexual abuse in Europe (http://www.dw.com...).

Recently, the migrants in Germany have caused quite the stir. During the 2016 New Year's Eve celebrations, hundreds of sexual assaults (including groping), numerous thefts, and at least five rapes were reported in Germany. All of the incidents involved women being surrounded and assaulted by groups of men on the street. There were more than 1,900 victims and it is reported that up to 1,000 men may have been involved in Cologne (http://www.dw.com...). The problem was that the "overwhelming majority" of the offenders were asylum seekers and illegal immigrants who had recently arrived in Germany (http://www.express.co.uk...). Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. Recently there have been a surge of a surge in sex crimes by immigrants at German public swimming pools. Ever since New Year's the number of migrants - men from sexually repressive Muslim countries - attacking scantily clad women and children at swimming baths has continue to soar (http://www.dailymail.co.uk...).

What does German law have to say? Germany's legal definition of rape has been criticized for being too narrow, and there are political discussions of reforming the law, so that it complies with the Istanbul convention. Anita Eckhardt of Germany"s Federal Association of Women"s Counseling Centers and said "It was only in 1997 that rape within a married couple was found to be punishable" and that Germany's conservative values are to blame (http://www.mintpressnews.com...). Under Germany's rape laws, sexual assault is only classified as rape if sex is forced by violence, specific threats or if the perpetrator exploits the vulnerability of the victim. Saying "no" did not qualify as "rape" in Germany's law. The Istanbul Convention classifies rape as any "non-consensual, conduct of a sexual nature" (http://www.dw.com...).

Why does this matter? Well, today Germany has officially changed their rape laws. Germany's parliament passed a new law saying that it is rape to have sex with a person who says "No" to the sex. The new law also classifies groping as a sex crime, makes it easier to deport migrants who commit sex offences, and makes it easier to prosecute assaults committed by a large group. See a connection there? Hopefully you do. The "No means No" is suggested to increase the number of victims who choose to press charges, lower the number of criminal prosecutions that are shelved and ensure sexual assaults are properly punished, as well as take into account both physical and verbal cues from the victim when assessing whether rape took place. "No" now proves lack of consent and therefore rape (http://www.bbc.com...).

So, what do you guys think about this development? Do you think the new law will help solve the rape crisis in Germany? Do you think the migrants really are to blame? Do you think this law still won't do enough, will do just enough, or do you think maybe it's too broad and needs to return to being narrow? Do you think Germany's "conservative values" are really to blame? What do you think the punishment for rape should be, specifically in regards to these migrants? What is your assessment on Germany's border control laws and accepting these migrants into their country? What do you propose should be done to help continue to enforce the law and prevent harm in Germany? Or do the Germans deserve it because they're Nazis? Discuss.

Sweden is the same way, and Turkey for that matter. They prove a mass immigration of a group incompatible with western culture is a bad thing. While they should still take refugees, mass immigration is dangerous both culturally and economically.