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What Black America Fails to See

YYW
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7/8/2016 1:11:42 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
This post is written in response to what may be the most poorly written, dim, inarticulate op-ed I have ever seen in the New York Times.

The op-ed: http://www.nytimes.com...

Read and see. The guy who wrote this is a sociology professor at Georgetown. On that end, I refer you all to my prior comments about how worthless sociology and psychology are.

IT is clear that you, white America, will never understand us.

Already you are off to a bad start. It's white versus black, despite the fact that a black terrorist just killed five cops in Dallas while you were writing this op-ed last night.

We are a nation of nearly 40 million black souls inside a nation of more than 320 million people. We don"t all think the same, feel the same, love, learn, live or even die the same.

One nation? A nation apart from the rest, right? A nation that can only be regarded as a singular unit when one of you is shot by the police, but as soon as anyone talks about the reasons why blacks are more likely to be shot by police--i.e. black culture--whoever so discusses is a "racist"? You can't have collective harm and not collective blame. You can't argue that one person shot harms the entire black "nation" and not agree that the acts of blacks have a similar effect.

But there"s one thing most of us agree on: We don"t want the cops to kill us without fear that they will ever face a jury, much less go to jail, even as the world watches our death on a homemade video recording.

Obviously, but the people who will make up the juries are the people who also saw things like what BlackLivesMatter did in Dallas last night. So even if you got to a jury, your "nation" has blighted its own position before the law.

You will never understand the helplessness we feel in watching these events unfold, violently, time and again, as shaky images tell a story more sobering than your eyes are willing to believe: that black life can mean so little.

This narrative is insufferable, because the issue is not a "white versus black" issue. White people are not engaged in some conspiracy against blacks, and any insinuation to the contrary doesn't even rise to the level of idiocy. The sole issue is *why* black people get shot more by the police, and the sole reason why that occurs is because of the greater threat that blacks pose to society and innocent people, generally, as is demonstrated amply by crime statistics in every jurisdiction in the country.

That the police are part of an undeclared war against blackness.

If two people--one of whom reached for a gun--being shot means that there is an undeclared war against blackness, then blacklivesmatter declared war on the police last night by shooting five innocent police officers. Moreover, blacks in general have declared outright war on society and themselves by their wanton shootings (see generally Chiraq) of other innocent people, generally. Or, does the standard you're using not uniformly apply? Do blacks get a special privilege to shoot innocent people, whereas when cops defend themselves, it's an "undeclared war"?

You can never admit that this is true. In fact, you deem the idea so preposterous and insulting that you call the black people who believe it racists themselves.

The only racists I've seen of late are BlackLivesMatter, whose actions now mirror those of Hezbollah and Hamas. And no, your idiotic "undeclared war" is not true, nor does it have any evidence. It's a rhetorical device used to inflame emotions and for no other purpose. There is no war; there are only whiny SJW's who want to blame other people for problems that begin with black culture but spill over onto the rest of society.

You say that black folks kill each other every day without a mumbling word while we thunderously protest a few cops, usually but not always white, who shoot to death black people who you deem to be mostly "thugs."

Blacks do kill each other every day, and the statistical evidence clearly bears that out. Blacks commit more violent crimes, and in particular, shooting crimes, than any other race. And the cops know that, as do the rest of us. While not all blacks are thugs, blacks are a whole lot more likely to be thugs than any other race.

Black people protest, to one another, to a world that largely refuses to listen, that what goes on in black communities across this nation is horrid, as it would be in any neighborhood depleted of dollars and hope " emptied of good schools, and deprived of social and economic buffers against brutality.

This argument is pathetic and stupid on its face. Poverty does not cause violence. Poverty does not cause people to murder other people, to shoot cops, to shoot other people, or engage in gun-related criminal activity.

The excuse is pathetic, disgusting and searingly paternalistic. Are blacks so helpless that they cannot exercise free agency? Are they so destitute that they lack the moral ability to distinguish between murder and non-murder? No. They make choices just like everyone else makes choices, and their choices are their fault. No one else forces blacks to shoot themselves or other people.

Whiteness is blindness. It is the wish not to see what it will not know.

Blackness, as you have outlined it, is a solemn promise not to acknowledge the cause of black plight; and, by implication, a blind commitment to ignore reality.

You cannot know what terror we live in. You make us afraid to walk the streets, for at any moment, a blue-clad officer with a gun could swoop down on us to snatch our lives from us and say that it was because we were selling cigarettes, or compact discs, or breathing too much for your comfort, or speaking too abrasively for your taste.

Bullsh!t. YOU put yourselves here, over generations of disastrous decisions that have placed you where you are now, since 1860. There was once hope, when people like MLK tried to build up communities. Or when Panthers mentored inner city kids and taught them hot to be responsible. You even get a leg up at university admissions, but yet you still kill one another and the police with reckless disregard for your own lives and the lives of others.

You hold an entire population of Muslims accountable for the evil acts of a few.

And you are now trying to blame all of White America for non-existent "crimes" against "blacks" in general. The hypocrisy is surpassed only by irony.

We feel powerless to make our black lives matter.

Then build your communities, fix your culture, and stop blaming other people for your own problems.
Tsar of DDO
bballcrook21
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7/8/2016 2:06:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 1:11:42 PM, YYW wrote:
This post is written in response to what may be the most poorly written, dim, inarticulate op-ed I have ever seen in the New York Times.

The op-ed: http://www.nytimes.com...

Read and see. The guy who wrote this is a sociology professor at Georgetown. On that end, I refer you all to my prior comments about how worthless sociology and psychology are.

IT is clear that you, white America, will never understand us.

Already you are off to a bad start. It's white versus black, despite the fact that a black terrorist just killed five cops in Dallas while you were writing this op-ed last night.

We are a nation of nearly 40 million black souls inside a nation of more than 320 million people. We don"t all think the same, feel the same, love, learn, live or even die the same.

One nation? A nation apart from the rest, right? A nation that can only be regarded as a singular unit when one of you is shot by the police, but as soon as anyone talks about the reasons why blacks are more likely to be shot by police--i.e. black culture--whoever so discusses is a "racist"? You can't have collective harm and not collective blame. You can't argue that one person shot harms the entire black "nation" and not agree that the acts of blacks have a similar effect.

But there"s one thing most of us agree on: We don"t want the cops to kill us without fear that they will ever face a jury, much less go to jail, even as the world watches our death on a homemade video recording.

Obviously, but the people who will make up the juries are the people who also saw things like what BlackLivesMatter did in Dallas last night. So even if you got to a jury, your "nation" has blighted its own position before the law.

You will never understand the helplessness we feel in watching these events unfold, violently, time and again, as shaky images tell a story more sobering than your eyes are willing to believe: that black life can mean so little.

This narrative is insufferable, because the issue is not a "white versus black" issue. White people are not engaged in some conspiracy against blacks, and any insinuation to the contrary doesn't even rise to the level of idiocy. The sole issue is *why* black people get shot more by the police, and the sole reason why that occurs is because of the greater threat that blacks pose to society and innocent people, generally, as is demonstrated amply by crime statistics in every jurisdiction in the country.

That the police are part of an undeclared war against blackness.

If two people--one of whom reached for a gun--being shot means that there is an undeclared war against blackness, then blacklivesmatter declared war on the police last night by shooting five innocent police officers. Moreover, blacks in general have declared outright war on society and themselves by their wanton shootings (see generally Chiraq) of other innocent people, generally. Or, does the standard you're using not uniformly apply? Do blacks get a special privilege to shoot innocent people, whereas when cops defend themselves, it's an "undeclared war"?

You can never admit that this is true. In fact, you deem the idea so preposterous and insulting that you call the black people who believe it racists themselves.

The only racists I've seen of late are BlackLivesMatter, whose actions now mirror those of Hezbollah and Hamas. And no, your idiotic "undeclared war" is not true, nor does it have any evidence. It's a rhetorical device used to inflame emotions and for no other purpose. There is no war; there are only whiny SJW's who want to blame other people for problems that begin with black culture but spill over onto the rest of society.

You say that black folks kill each other every day without a mumbling word while we thunderously protest a few cops, usually but not always white, who shoot to death black people who you deem to be mostly "thugs."

Blacks do kill each other every day, and the statistical evidence clearly bears that out. Blacks commit more violent crimes, and in particular, shooting crimes, than any other race. And the cops know that, as do the rest of us. While not all blacks are thugs, blacks are a whole lot more likely to be thugs than any other race.

Black people protest, to one another, to a world that largely refuses to listen, that what goes on in black communities across this nation is horrid, as it would be in any neighborhood depleted of dollars and hope " emptied of good schools, and deprived of social and economic buffers against brutality.

This argument is pathetic and stupid on its face. Poverty does not cause violence. Poverty does not cause people to murder other people, to shoot cops, to shoot other people, or engage in gun-related criminal activity.

The excuse is pathetic, disgusting and searingly paternalistic. Are blacks so helpless that they cannot exercise free agency? Are they so destitute that they lack the moral ability to distinguish between murder and non-murder? No. They make choices just like everyone else makes choices, and their choices are their fault. No one else forces blacks to shoot themselves or other people.

Whiteness is blindness. It is the wish not to see what it will not know.

Blackness, as you have outlined it, is a solemn promise not to acknowledge the cause of black plight; and, by implication, a blind commitment to ignore reality.

You cannot know what terror we live in. You make us afraid to walk the streets, for at any moment, a blue-clad officer with a gun could swoop down on us to snatch our lives from us and say that it was because we were selling cigarettes, or compact discs, or breathing too much for your comfort, or speaking too abrasively for your taste.

Bullsh!t. YOU put yourselves here, over generations of disastrous decisions that have placed you where you are now, since 1860. There was once hope, when people like MLK tried to build up communities. Or when Panthers mentored inner city kids and taught them hot to be responsible. You even get a leg up at university admissions, but yet you still kill one another and the police with reckless disregard for your own lives and the lives of others.

You hold an entire population of Muslims accountable for the evil acts of a few.

And you are now trying to blame all of White America for non-existent "crimes" against "blacks" in general. The hypocrisy is surpassed only by irony.

We feel powerless to make our black lives matter.

Then build your communities, fix your culture, and stop blaming other people for your own problems.

You can clearly see the diversion about black culture when you talk to a progressive that thinks "socio-economic" reasons are why blacks happen to commit crimes, but they do not realize that the economic state of blacks has been getting better over time, and yet the crime rates has been exploding as blacks adopt this quasi-decrepit culture that is bred from the worst type of arts and customs possible.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

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Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bhakun
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7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Maybe you shouldn't blame 40 million people for the actions of a few lunatics? Just a thought.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
YYW
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7/8/2016 7:01:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, bhakun wrote:
Maybe you shouldn't blame 40 million people for the actions of a few lunatics? Just a thought.

You really didn't read what I wrote did you....
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Vox_Veritas
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7/8/2016 8:40:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I think that the mindset of "Poverty is the cause of crime" is an enabler for crime in poor communities. It's telling poor people that "It's okay to be a criminal because you're poor" while the consequences for said criminal activity remain the same. Perhaps instead we should say that "Evil intent is the cause of crime". Blacks were put at an obvious economic disadvantage by emancipation without any compensation for slavery, and by Jim Crow laws that crippled economic opportunity. But after the 1960s blacks should've been able to stand up on their own two feet and build themselves up. Some things which have hindered this are the "War on Poverty", which bred dependence in an otherwise independent and strong community, and crime, seeing as how high incarceration rates hinder economic development.
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Vox_Veritas
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7/8/2016 8:44:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
For most of human history, most people have been poor. However, crime rates which exist now in the black community have not existed in most societies historically. The reason for this is that these past societies, even impoverished ones, had powerful social control measures in place, such as deep religiosity, sincere communal ties among neighbours, and a solid nuclear family structure. The black community has largely lost these features; if it gets them back, then they can lower their crime rates and better themselves economically, if only slightly.
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someloser
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7/8/2016 8:49:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
"Black people just killed some whites - here's why you're at fault, white people"

These articles are only good for egging on ethnic tension. It would not be surprising at all if some devotee of Manson, or the like, were funding similar efforts.

Of course, the author and its fans probably think it's doing black people some great favor.

At birth, you are given a pair of binoculars that see black life from a distance, never with the texture of intimacy. Those binoculars are privilege; they are status, regardless of your class.
Of course, blacks presumably have no such impediment. Their perspective, we are Reliably Informed, is ceteris paribus the accurate view of reality.

In fact the greatest privilege that exists is for white folk to get stopped by a cop and not end up dead when the encounter is over.
Interestingly, if you were to adjust for disparities in encounter rates, you would find that the police are disproportionately likely to shoot white people (despite their lower rates of violence).
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Vox_Veritas
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7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.
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Skepsikyma
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7/8/2016 9:07:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

Bingo. Truth isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
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7/8/2016 9:10:35 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, bhakun wrote:
Maybe you shouldn't blame 40 million people for the actions of a few lunatics? Just a thought.

Maybe you should think the same about cops.
Vox_Veritas
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7/8/2016 9:10:58 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:07:34 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

Bingo. Truth isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

In my opinion, the solution to a bad environment producing bad people is not to say "Okay, we can't punish you because you're a product of a bad environment." Rather, it's to recognise the problem and create a good environment which will produce good people.
But then again you probably agree with me here.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Greyparrot
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7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
Vox_Veritas
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7/8/2016 9:18:42 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.

That's a horrible solution. Why not encourage strong black families and communities so that crime rates will drop? As a result, the average white person (and cop) will be less paranoid about the "killer black man" and there will be fewer incidents of cops shooting blacks.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Greyparrot
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7/8/2016 9:21:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:18:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.

That's a horrible solution. Why not encourage strong black families and communities so that crime rates will drop? As a result, the average white person (and cop) will be less paranoid about the "killer black man" and there will be fewer incidents of cops shooting blacks.

Because you need community support. The communities won't change when they believe the world is out to get them, so appease the communities, give them some tribal lands to die off on like we did with the Native Americans.
Vox_Veritas
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7/8/2016 9:24:33 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:21:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:18:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.

That's a horrible solution. Why not encourage strong black families and communities so that crime rates will drop? As a result, the average white person (and cop) will be less paranoid about the "killer black man" and there will be fewer incidents of cops shooting blacks.

Because you need community support. The communities won't change when they believe the world is out to get them, so appease the communities, give them some tribal lands to die off on like we did with the Native Americans.

If blacks believe that society has totally abandoned them, they certainly won't change for the better.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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7/8/2016 9:25:33 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:10:58 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:07:34 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

Bingo. Truth isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

In my opinion, the solution to a bad environment producing bad people is not to say "Okay, we can't punish you because you're a product of a bad environment." Rather, it's to recognise the problem and create a good environment which will produce good people.
But then again you probably agree with me here.

Yes, I definitely agree. The recent fetishization of 'debunking' and 'progress' have been disastrous. When Marxists went after religion, they compared it to the beautiful flowers laced through heavy chains of bondage, and made the chains easier to bear. They claimed to want to remove the chains along with the flowers, but missed or ignored the fact that the chains were a product of reality, and the flowers were society's attempt to deal with that harsh reality. In the end, they stripped the flowers and left people with nothing but stark awareness of their own misery, and rebuilding those deconstructed pious fictions which were so vital to functioning human societies will be a long and difficult road.

Camus, I think, characterized this ignorant drive perfectly in his essay 'Helen's Exile':

'Christianity referred to a spiritual nature and thereby preserved a certain fixity. With God dead, there remains only history and power. For some time the entire effort of our philosophers has aimed solely at replacing the notion of human nature with that of situation, and replacing ancient harmony with the disorderly advance of chance or reason's pitiless progress. Whereas the Greeks gave to will the boundaries of reason, we have come to put the will's impulse in the very center of reason, which has, as a result, become deadly. For the Greeks, values pre-existed all action, of which they definitely set the limits. Modern philosophy places its values at the end of action. They are not but are becoming, and we shall know them fully only at the completion of history. With values, all limit disappears, and since conceptions differ as to what they will be, since all struggles, without the brake of those same values, spread indefinitely, today's Messianisms confront one another and their clamors mingle in the clash of empires. Disproportion is a conflagration, according to Heraclitus. The conflagration is spreading; Nietzsche is outdistanced. Europe no longer philosophizes by striking a hammer, but by shooting a cannon.

Nature is still there, however. She contrasts her calm skies and her reasons with the madness of men. Until the atom too catches fire and history ends in the triumph of reason and the agony of the species. But the Greeks never said that the limit could not he overstepped. They said it existed and that whoever dared to exceed it was mercilessly struck down. Nothing in present history can contradict them.

The historical spirit and the artist both want to remake the world. But the artist, through an obligation of his nature, knows his limits, which the historical spirit fails to recognize. This is why the latter's aim is tyranny whereas the former's passion is freedom. All those who are struggling for freedom today are ultimately fighting for beauty. Of course, it is not a question of defending beauty for itself. Beauty cannot do without man, and we shall not give our era its nobility and serenity unless we follow it in its misfortune. Never again shall we be hermits. But it is no less true that man cannot do without beauty, and this is what our era pretends to want to disregard. It steels itself to attain the absolute and authority; it wants to transfigure the world before having exhausted it, to set it to rights before having understood it. Whatever it may say, our era is deserting this world.'
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
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7/8/2016 9:29:32 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:24:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:21:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:18:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.

That's a horrible solution. Why not encourage strong black families and communities so that crime rates will drop? As a result, the average white person (and cop) will be less paranoid about the "killer black man" and there will be fewer incidents of cops shooting blacks.

Because you need community support. The communities won't change when they believe the world is out to get them, so appease the communities, give them some tribal lands to die off on like we did with the Native Americans.

If blacks believe that society has totally abandoned them, they certainly won't change for the better.

That's nothing that can be changed by the law abiding elements of American culture.
Tribal lands are the permanent solution, and the dwindling numbers of Native Americans along with the assimilation of the brighter Indian minds are testament.

We already have the infrastructure in place. Just formally allocate places like Detroit as police no-go zones, and have them operate under Black tribunal councils. Then set up a process where these Blacks can be properly integrated at a later date into civilized American society.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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7/8/2016 9:42:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:29:32 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:24:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:21:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:18:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.

That's a horrible solution. Why not encourage strong black families and communities so that crime rates will drop? As a result, the average white person (and cop) will be less paranoid about the "killer black man" and there will be fewer incidents of cops shooting blacks.

Because you need community support. The communities won't change when they believe the world is out to get them, so appease the communities, give them some tribal lands to die off on like we did with the Native Americans.

If blacks believe that society has totally abandoned them, they certainly won't change for the better.

That's nothing that can be changed by the law abiding elements of American culture.
Tribal lands are the permanent solution, and the dwindling numbers of Native Americans along with the assimilation of the brighter Indian minds are testament.

We already have the infrastructure in place. Just formally allocate places like Detroit as police no-go zones, and have them operate under Black tribunal councils. Then set up a process where these Blacks can be properly integrated at a later date into civilized American society.

Your precedent for this idea, Native American Reservations, did not work. The NA community today is in shambles, probably even worse off than the black community.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,306
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7/8/2016 10:13:09 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:42:19 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:29:32 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:24:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:21:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:18:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.

That's a horrible solution. Why not encourage strong black families and communities so that crime rates will drop? As a result, the average white person (and cop) will be less paranoid about the "killer black man" and there will be fewer incidents of cops shooting blacks.

Because you need community support. The communities won't change when they believe the world is out to get them, so appease the communities, give them some tribal lands to die off on like we did with the Native Americans.

If blacks believe that society has totally abandoned them, they certainly won't change for the better.

That's nothing that can be changed by the law abiding elements of American culture.
Tribal lands are the permanent solution, and the dwindling numbers of Native Americans along with the assimilation of the brighter Indian minds are testament.

We already have the infrastructure in place. Just formally allocate places like Detroit as police no-go zones, and have them operate under Black tribunal councils. Then set up a process where these Blacks can be properly integrated at a later date into civilized American society.

Your precedent for this idea, Native American Reservations, did not work. The NA community today is in shambles, probably even worse off than the black community.

The only alternative is integration at gunpoint, it just won't happen. This way, we can mitigate the effects.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/9/2016 2:30:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 1:11:42 PM, YYW wrote:
Read and see. The guy who wrote this is a sociology professor at Georgetown. On that end, I refer you all to my prior comments about how worthless sociology and psychology are.

IT is clear that you, white America, will never understand us.
And your Op, "What Black America Fails to See," is a verbatim sentiment of the author that you are critiquing, for the way he addresses white America.

Already you are off to a bad start. It's white versus black, despite the fact that a black terrorist just killed five cops in Dallas while you were writing this op-ed last night.
You are already off to a bad start with the title of your OP, despite the fact that the impoverished conditions of cities like Detroit and Flint, are invisible to mainstream America.

We are a nation of nearly 40 million black souls inside a nation of more than 320 million people. We don"t all think the same, feel the same, love, learn, live or even die the same.


One nation?
YES! A nation within a nation.
Nation: a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory. [https://www.google.com...]

A nation apart from the rest, right?
No, a "Nation WITHIN a Nation."

A nation that can only be regarded as a singular unit when one of you is shot by the police, but as soon as anyone talks about the reasons why blacks are more likely to be shot by police--i.e. black culture--whoever so discusses is a "racist"? You can't have collective harm and not collective blame. You can't argue that one person shot harms the entire black "nation" and not agree that the acts of blacks have a similar effect.
You are correct that black on black crime degrades black communities, but it doesn't dismiss the way that police brutality terrorizes these communities. Sorry that I don't know the official name of your fallacious argument. I believe it is a strawman?

But there"s one thing most of us agree on: We don"t want the cops to kill us without fear that they will ever face a jury, much less go to jail, even as the world watches our death on a homemade video recording.

Obviously, but the people who will make up the juries are the people who also saw things like what BlackLivesMatter did in Dallas last night. So even if you got to a jury, your "nation" has blighted its own position before the law.
You are implying that potential white jurists are racists and cannot make a just decision based on the facts of individual cases. The author of the article believes in the jurisprudence system more than you do is the irony.

You will never understand the helplessness we feel in watching these events unfold, violently, time and again, as shaky images tell a story more sobering than your eyes are willing to believe: that black life can mean so little.

blah, blah, blah ......

Black people protest, to one another, to a world that largely refuses to listen, that what goes on in black communities across this nation is horrid, as it would be in any neighborhood depleted of dollars and hope " emptied of good schools, and deprived of social and economic buffers against brutality.

This argument is pathetic and stupid on its face. Poverty does not cause violence. Poverty does not cause people to murder other people, to shoot cops, to shoot other people, or engage in gun-related criminal activity.
Poverty combined with the efforts of the media and entertainment industries causes these things when economic opportunity is non existent in some locals. I could argue that prosperity causes indifference and insensitivity, but that would be a strawman.

The excuse is pathetic, disgusting and searingly paternalistic. Are blacks so helpless that they cannot exercise free agency?
What do you mean by free agency?
Are they so destitute that they lack the moral ability to distinguish between murder and non-murder? No. They make choices just like everyone else makes choices, and their choices are their fault. No one else forces blacks to shoot themselves or other people.
This I agree with.

Whiteness is blindness. It is the wish not to see what it will not know.

Blackness, as you have outlined it, is a solemn promise not to acknowledge the cause of black plight; and, by implication, a blind commitment to ignore reality.
Self empowerment would be ideal! You seem blind to the knowledge that many black individuals who have risen up against oppressive forces, while still partaking in the positive cultural norms of the black community (not the media hype), have had violence perpetrated upon them by systemic injustice.

You cannot know what terror we live in. You make us afraid to walk the streets, for at any moment, a blue-clad officer with a gun could swoop down on us to snatch our lives from us and say that it was because we were selling cigarettes, or compact discs, or breathing too much for your comfort, or speaking too abrasively for your taste.

Bullsh!t. YOU put yourselves here, over generations of disastrous decisions that have placed you where you are now, since 1860.
Our government reneged on land reparations after the civil war, or Black americans would have dominated self sustaining farming industries and would have most likely dominated many other professions as well.

There was once hope, when people like MLK tried to build up communities. Or when Panthers mentored inner city kids and taught them hot to be responsible. You even get a leg up at university admissions, but yet you still kill one another and the police with reckless disregard for your own lives and the lives of others.
There needs to be more responsible leaders like MLK and Old Panthers, I agree! You blame black culture, but MLK and old Panters are the epitome of the "culture."
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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7/9/2016 2:32:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 5:56:40 PM, bhakun wrote:
Maybe you shouldn't blame 40 million people for the actions of a few lunatics? Just a thought.

So you agree that they are lunatics, but fail to see their motivations and the fact that these individuals are endorsed and allowed to do such by the black community at large (or at least the most vocal ones).
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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7/9/2016 8:26:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.

Glad you're full colors of racism have finally come out.

Here, I think you'll really like this place: https://www.stormfront.org...
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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7/9/2016 8:32:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:26:10 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.

Glad you're full colors of racism have finally come out.

Here, I think you'll really like this place: https://www.stormfront.org...

You must truly be a complete moron if you think that this is in some way a racist statement.

If whites were slaughtering each other in record numbers and were filling gangs to the brim, I would say the same about those specific people.

It's not a racist remark, but you certainly are a small brainer, aren't you?
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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7/9/2016 8:33:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:26:10 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.

Glad you're full colors of racism have finally come out.

Here, I think you'll really like this place: https://www.stormfront.org...

And just so we're clear, your asinine and morally superior comment is not an argument. Racism, whether apparent or not, doesn't disqualify arguments.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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7/10/2016 2:32:08 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Why dont you write the professor directly instead of arguing with a ghost. Seems like you just wanted to be able to nitpick this article apart with out having the author to deal with.

All I can say is i disagree. This is an argument that can go on and on. White people think these problems are caused by black people, black people believe it's a symptom of racism. You call the guy a terrorist instead of a mentally disturbed army vet. And who assumes everyone in BLM agrees with what he did. You claim crime itself is a part of black culture. Being a thug is not part of being black, it is part of being broke.

"You even get a leg up at university admissions, but yet you still kill one another and the police with reckless disregard for your own lives and the lives of others."

You guys no nothing about black people. And you make generalizations. Massive ones. I never shot anyone.

I dont really care to defend this guy. I'll admit it is a little excessive. But thats my opinion. Your response is sickening. Your just as bad as he is. You realize slavery wasn't abolished until 1860. You are blaming our current predicament on slaves. We made horrible decision for ourselves that brought us here, before we were even granted civil rights?

Lets not forget all the messed up stuff black people had to deal with after that. You think ghettos are just a result of black people living in the same place? I wont argue that with you just google it and find out. I am not trying to make black people helpless victims. We are responsible for our own actions. But the idea that black people are the sole cause of what is happening on this country is ludicrous.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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7/10/2016 2:52:01 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 8:33:06 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:26:10 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.

Glad you're full colors of racism have finally come out.

Here, I think you'll really like this place: https://www.stormfront.org...

And just so we're clear, your asinine and morally superior comment is not an argument. Racism, whether apparent or not, doesn't disqualify arguments.
Well, I'm not going to argue with a racist. You cant really change what is is ingrained inside the small head of a racist.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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7/10/2016 2:53:11 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 2:52:01 AM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:33:06 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:26:10 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.

Glad you're full colors of racism have finally come out.

Here, I think you'll really like this place: https://www.stormfront.org...

And just so we're clear, your asinine and morally superior comment is not an argument. Racism, whether apparent or not, doesn't disqualify arguments.
Well, I'm not going to argue with a racist. You cant really change what is is ingrained inside the small head of a racist.

Notable idiot bkahun back at it again with the idiocy! Sad!
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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7/10/2016 3:00:16 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/10/2016 2:53:11 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/10/2016 2:52:01 AM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:33:06 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:26:10 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/9/2016 8:20:20 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 7/9/2016 7:53:29 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:15:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:59:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Black criminals are the product of human nature and an environment which encourages crime, but to let black people know this will only make the problem worse. We have to act like it's entirely the criminal's fault to reduce the problem.

This "war" is instigated by black thugs, and supported by the less savage elements of their communities. I can see how it is not so different from Hezbollah.

The simple solution to both problems is clear, wall off the areas, enforce police no-go zones, and let them kill themselves off. Later when the hysteria has died down to a manageable level, we can systematically process the reformed Blacks (or Muslims) into the peaceful mainstream culture.
You know you are on the wrong side of history when this is your solution.

How come? Let the animals kill each other off, do not get involved, and it fixes itself.

Glad you're full colors of racism have finally come out.

Here, I think you'll really like this place: https://www.stormfront.org...

And just so we're clear, your asinine and morally superior comment is not an argument. Racism, whether apparent or not, doesn't disqualify arguments.
Well, I'm not going to argue with a racist. You cant really change what is is ingrained inside the small head of a racist.

Notable idiot bkahun back at it again with the idiocy! Sad!
Notable white supremacist bballcrook thinks his young brain knows all about race because he saw a few Jared Taylor podcasts! Embarassing!
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr