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Incest between consenting adults

Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
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7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/27/2016 12:31:43 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I agree that the thought of such relationships is repulsive on many levels. This, however, touches upon an important aspect of human morality and should force ourselves to ask the following question: what is truly at the core of our moral decision making? How much of our moral judgements are based on visceral reactions and impulse as opposed to reasoned deliberation?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
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7/27/2016 7:36:53 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.

But in most cases there is a victim an in most cases, people do not follow the rules here.
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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7/27/2016 7:57:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:36:53 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.

But in most cases there is a victim an in most cases, people do not follow the rules here.

There can be a victim in any relationship and OP clearly stated "Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc)."
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Torton
Posts: 988
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7/27/2016 8:00:19 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?
Yes, but there doesn't really need to be any special criteria. Just adopt the age of consent (it varies in the U.S., but it's usually 16), with Romeo and Juliet laws.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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7/27/2016 8:01:05 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

I think these rules are fairly plausible really, thing is, people might not follow those rules, if followed though, I'd say, why not?
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,139
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7/27/2016 8:19:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
If gays can get married because they are consenting adults, then incest and polygamy should be subject to the same rules. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, it needs to be legal.
HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
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7/27/2016 8:55:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:57:33 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:36:53 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.

But in most cases there is a victim an in most cases, people do not follow the rules here.

There can be a victim in any relationship and OP clearly stated "Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc)."

Well I suppose since its not exactly a mental disability. But in most cases people wouldn't listen to those rules.
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 9:02:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 7:36:53 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.

But in most cases there is a victim an in most cases, people do not follow the rules here.

That's why I suggested only allowing it when the criteria I mentioned above was met. Cases where there clearly is no victim. Simply a relationship between consenting adults.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 9:06:05 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 8:00:19 PM, Torton wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?
Yes, but there doesn't really need to be any special criteria. Just adopt the age of consent (it varies in the U.S., but it's usually 16), with Romeo and Juliet laws.

So you don't think extra care should be placed here? Is it really morally acceptable for a father to seduce his 16 year old daughter, offering financial incentives, gifts etc to encourage her involvement?

I know it's a tricky issue but I think my solution is fair, just and reasonable.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 9:09:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 12:31:43 AM, Axon85 wrote:
I agree that the thought of such relationships is repulsive on many levels. This, however, touches upon an important aspect of human morality and should force ourselves to ask the following question: what is truly at the core of our moral decision making? How much of our moral judgements are based on visceral reactions and impulse as opposed to reasoned deliberation?

Exactly. We have to look at this in a similar manner to homosexuality. If people are happy and consent to a happy relationship who are we to criticize merely because we find the nature of the relationship disgusting?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 9:14:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 8:01:05 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

I think these rules are fairly plausible really, thing is, people might not follow those rules, if followed though, I'd say, why not?

Obviously people break the law. What following my suggestions would allow though is for people to know what is and what is not acceptable, allowing prosecutions when the rules are broken and incestuous couples to live freely and openly when the rules are followed knowing that what they are doing is ok, no longer needing to hide it and feel like criminals. It's comparable in my opinion to legalization of homosexuality. There is no need to make people criminals merely for consensual sexual relations with another adult.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 9:16:53 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 8:19:13 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
If gays can get married because they are consenting adults, then incest and polygamy should be subject to the same rules. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, it needs to be legal.

I think my suggestions would help ensure that relationships were consensual and no improper conduct occurs, e.g. a father seducing his 16 year old daughter, offering her bribes, pressurizing her etc.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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7/27/2016 9:16:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 8:55:52 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:57:33 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:36:53 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.

But in most cases there is a victim an in most cases, people do not follow the rules here.

There can be a victim in any relationship and OP clearly stated "Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc)."

Well I suppose since its not exactly a mental disability. But in most cases people wouldn't listen to those rules.

I suppose that's through. There are always people who take advantage of the law/rules.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/27/2016 9:20:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 8:55:52 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:57:33 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:36:53 PM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/27/2016 7:34:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 12:03:41 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

Wow, that was a disgusting list of ok things to do. Seriously, a grandparent and a child? Do you have any idea how disgusting that is? Or a parent and a child? Gross. It's immoral and wrong. Why are you trying to promote it?

I'm not promoting it I'm just offering my opinion on it. If the conditions I listed are met how is it harmful? I've come to the conclusion it's not really fair for me to stop mature consenting adults with able minds engaging in these activities if they want to. There is no victim.

But in most cases there is a victim an in most cases, people do not follow the rules here.

There can be a victim in any relationship and OP clearly stated "Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc)."

Well I suppose since its not exactly a mental disability. But in most cases people wouldn't listen to those rules.

They don't anyway. These rules merely differentiate consensual relationships from abusive relationships and misuse of positions of trust. It prevents people from being penalized by the law unfairly for engaging in consensual victimless activity while ensuring those acting in an improper selfish and sick manner are prosecuted.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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7/27/2016 9:21:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 9:14:30 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 8:01:05 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

I think these rules are fairly plausible really, thing is, people might not follow those rules, if followed though, I'd say, why not?

Obviously people break the law. What following my suggestions would allow though is for people to know what is and what is not acceptable, allowing prosecutions when the rules are broken and incestuous couples to live freely and openly when the rules are followed knowing that what they are doing is ok, no longer needing to hide it and feel like criminals. It's comparable in my opinion to legalization of homosexuality. There is no need to make people criminals merely for consensual sexual relations with another adult.

I don't see why most people's general arguments against incest is that it's "gross" or "immoral", but truly, it's not that bad. The people involved, in most cases, aren't getting harmed. I see where you're coming from.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/27/2016 9:54:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

Why do they have to be 25? You can legally consent to sex at 16/17 in most states. You are a legal adult at 18. This seems like an arbitrary number.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

I'm pretty sure that's the case with most sex.

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

Why not? Are you saying that if someone is more likely to have a child with disabilities, that they should not be legally permitted to have the child?

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

Why does this apply to incestuous couples in particular?

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

This seems silly. It's okay as a moral and social standard but not legal.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

Prostitution is (unfortunately) illegal. And this describes "dating" to many people.

=====

Incest seems pretty gross biologically speaking, but legally, meh. None of our business.
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Torton
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7/27/2016 9:55:56 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 9:06:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/27/2016 8:00:19 PM, Torton wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?
Yes, but there doesn't really need to be any special criteria. Just adopt the age of consent (it varies in the U.S., but it's usually 16), with Romeo and Juliet laws.

So you don't think extra care should be placed here? Is it really morally acceptable for a father to seduce his 16 year old daughter, offering financial incentives, gifts etc to encourage her involvement?

I know it's a tricky issue but I think my solution is fair, just and reasonable.
Looking back, #4 and #6 of your criteria would be necessary. I guess.
Chloe8
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7/27/2016 10:34:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/27/2016 9:54:14 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

Why do they have to be 25? You can legally consent to sex at 16/17 in most states. You are a legal adult at 18. This seems like an arbitrary number.

I wanted to ensure people were at an advanced level of maturity emotionally, economically and in terms of independence from the person/people whom they may choose to begin an incestuous relationship. It's just a suggestion. In my opinion 16 is too young though. I can see that age increasing the likelihood of scenarios where a parent may abuse their position of trust to initiate such a relationship and be able to cover it up as consensual and legal when in fact they may be applying emotional, economic or social pressure on the 16 year old to participate in the relationship.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

I'm pretty sure that's the case with most sex.

True.

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

Why not? Are you saying that if someone is more likely to have a child with disabilities, that they should not be legally permitted to have the child?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

Why does this apply to incestuous couples in particular?

Because it's a common problem as some of the people involved may hold considerable power and influence over other people involved and often already live together in a domestic setting. It's true thought that this point should apply to all relationships. I'm just emphasizing it to demonstrate the conditions where I personally consider incest to be acceptable.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

This seems silly. It's okay as a moral and social standard but not legal.

The reasoning is that I don't think it's acceptable for children to know about the details of unusual sexual relations between various family members. I don't think it's fair for a child to know about that sort of thing. Growing up is hard enough as it is without knowing your mum and your brother have a sexual relationship.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

Prostitution is (unfortunately) illegal. And this describes "dating" to many people.

Prostitution is legal in some parts of the world. It's important that people remember not everyone here is American. I'm from the UK for example. It's reasonable that when making this kind of post I make clear what is and what is not acceptable, regardless of current laws in either my own country or the country of the majority of members here (USA).

=====

Incest seems pretty gross biologically speaking, but legally, meh. None of our business.

So you don't think that there is a problem with a father seducing his 16 year old daughter who lives in his house and is completely dependent on him economically?

In my opinion there has to be a different set of rules for incestuous relationships. It's important we protect people while allowing consensual relationships between consenting adults when it's clear that is what's happening.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
matt8800
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7/28/2016 9:58:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

As far as I know, it is not specifically illegal in many countries therefore it is 'allowed'.

If empathy is the foundation of morality, I don't know if it is a moral question. I think it is a question of dignity and priority.

Sex changes a relationship. I have had sex with women that were friends and it seems that it always changes the friendship unfortunately. If two people are related, I think something of great value will be permanently lost.

It is considered socially repugnant and personally, I think it should stay that way.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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7/28/2016 10:28:06 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
personally I'm impartial, primarily because it's none of my business what two consenting adults consent to with each other.

but I'm curious wasn't incest a common practice for monarchy and aristocrats to keep the blood line pure and the money in the family?

I wonder if this is still common among the remaining monarchy of today.
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Foodiesoul
Posts: 579
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7/28/2016 11:39:34 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

I disagree with you completely!

Number one is wrong because you're having sex with the person who gave birth to you! Why do you think that's such a gross and just wrong relationship to have? Answer that in your head.

Number two is wrong. Let me ask you this! Why do you think when people say like a sister or like a brother, they NEVER encourage any sexual relationships?

Number three is wrong because that is pedophilia which is just WRONG for obvious reasons!

Number four is wrong because aunt and uncle would be adultery of some sort and just unlawful while nephew and niece would just be wrong! Ask yourself this! If you met your aunt or uncle or nephew or niece and you tried to seduce them, how do you think they would feel? They would be pretty pissed off at you and probably report you to the police!

You NEED to seek mental help because incest is NEVER okay! It's just not!
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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7/30/2016 3:56:19 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Consenting or not, there's always the fallibility of birth control that is not 100%. Where does that leave the couple and offspring. Even in the animal world aversion is evident in mating with members along 1st familial lines, mother, son, father, daughter etc. Even though there has not yet been found a genetic basis for such an aversion it is expected to be found in the future. Small isolated Appalachian communities at the turn of the 1900's were found to have grave deformation as a result of limited gene pools due to reproduction amongst 1st cousins repeated generationally. Consenting or not, the oops factor comes into play.
keithprosser
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7/30/2016 10:19:20 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I'd guess the anti-incest instinct in humans is pretty strong in most individuals, although obviously it can be over-ridden by the 'sex drive' in cetain situations, such as the when alternate mates are not available.

My assumption would be that cases of truly consensual incest are very rare. My default would be that the dominant party had used some form of persuasion/coersion. But if I was satisfied it was indeed consensual and the parties were properly aware of the consequences (e.g. the elevated but not certain danger of genetic disease, social stigma etc) I see no reason to take or advocate any steps against them.
Chloe8
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7/31/2016 10:30:43 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 9:58:33 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

As far as I know, it is not specifically illegal in many countries therefore it is 'allowed'.

Actually it's surprising how many western nations prohibit incest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

If empathy is the foundation of morality, I don't know if it is a moral question. I think it is a question of dignity and priority.

Sex changes a relationship. I have had sex with women that were friends and it seems that it always changes the friendship unfortunately. If two people are related, I think something of great value will be permanently lost.

Completely agree. That's why I made the conditions where incest is permissible more stringent than normal relationships of an intimate nature.

It is considered socially repugnant and personally, I think it should stay that way.

I would personally not discriminate against someone who is in an open incestuous relationship if they are happy I don't see why I should be disgusted or respond negatively. Ultimately it's just someone loving someone else, the same as any relationship. Just because something is unusual it's not neccessarily wrong.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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7/31/2016 10:34:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 10:28:06 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
personally I'm impartial, primarily because it's none of my business what two consenting adults consent to with each other.

but I'm curious wasn't incest a common practice for monarchy and aristocrats to keep the blood line pure and the money in the family?

I wonder if this is still common among the remaining monarchy of today.

Yes its true that historically incest was practiced in the monarchy and aristocracy. It's not something that happens in western nations today although it may happen in other parts of the world.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/31/2016 10:44:34 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/31/2016 10:30:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 9:58:33 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

As far as I know, it is not specifically illegal in many countries therefore it is 'allowed'.

Actually it's surprising how many western nations prohibit incest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

If empathy is the foundation of morality, I don't know if it is a moral question. I think it is a question of dignity and priority.

Sex changes a relationship. I have had sex with women that were friends and it seems that it always changes the friendship unfortunately. If two people are related, I think something of great value will be permanently lost.

Completely agree. That's why I made the conditions where incest is permissible more stringent than normal relationships of an intimate nature.

It is considered socially repugnant and personally, I think it should stay that way.

I would personally not discriminate against someone who is in an open incestuous relationship if they are happy I don't see why I should be disgusted or respond negatively. Ultimately it's just someone loving someone else, the same as any relationship. Just because something is unusual it's not neccessarily wrong.

So, another question could be: would it be a detriment to society to be openly accepting of incestual relations? Personally, I think it would be a detriment. If fathers started pushing for a sexual relationship with their adult daughters, there would be more harm than good in emotional development, healthy socialization, etc. People in familial positions of authority are in a unique position to cause emotional damage.

If we define morality as what affects the greater good, than I think it could be successfully argued that incest is immoral.

I had a company with many employees and it was a personal rule of mine that I would not flirt or make sexual innuendoes with my attractive female employees. They were vulnerable to my position of authority. Familial authority abuse can create far more damage and sexual harassment by employers is illegal.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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7/31/2016 10:46:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 11:39:34 PM, Foodiesoul wrote:
At 7/26/2016 9:40:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Should it be allowed?

In my opinion yes as long as the following criteria are met:

1. Both individuals are over the age of 25.

2. Both individuals are capable of giving consent (no learning difficulties, special needs, disabilities etc).

3. The incestuous couple can not have children.

4. No economic or emotional pressure is applied to either partner to iniciate the incestuous relationship or ensure it continues.

5. No children under the age of 16 become aware of incestuous relationships other members of the family may be engaged in.

6. No payments or rewards are given to participants in an incestuous relationship by other participants to initiate their involvement in the incestuous relationship or to ensure their continued involvement.

The types of incest I would apply these conditions to would be the following:

1. Parent- Child.
2. Siblings (including half siblings).
3. Grandparent- Child.
4. Aunt/ Uncle- Nephew/ Niece.

Thoughts?

I disagree with you completely!

Number one is wrong because you're having sex with the person who gave birth to you! Why do you think that's such a gross and just wrong relationship to have? Answer that in your head.

I personally may not want to have an incestuous relationship but why should I discriminate against those who do any prevent them from doing so?

It's not about what I personally like it's about what should and should not be allowed.

Number two is wrong. Let me ask you this! Why do you think when people say like a sister or like a brother, they NEVER encourage any sexual relationships?

It's an evolutionary instinct to want to form intimate relationships with people outside of the immediate group you associate with. However some people don't think like this. A small minority desire incestuous relationships.

Number three is wrong because that is pedophilia which is just WRONG for obvious reasons!

No it's not paedophilia when both individuals are 25 or over. What makes you think that?

Number four is wrong because aunt and uncle would be adultery of some sort and just unlawful while nephew and niece would just be wrong! Ask yourself this! If you met your aunt or uncle or nephew or niece and you tried to seduce them, how do you think they would feel? They would be pretty pissed off at you and probably report you to the police!

It's not about me. Falling in love can happen without a specific intention to fall in love. It just happens on its own sometimes.

You NEED to seek mental help because incest is NEVER okay! It's just not!

Obviously people find it disgusting. I do as well. However when you think about it intimate relations between humans of all kinds are pretty gross. Just because certain things are considered normal and we have a natural desire to do them we as a society say they are fine. However something only desired by small numbers of people is vilified. In my opinion if consenting adults willingly engage in an intimate relationship there is no justification for the intervention of others to stop them.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.