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Would a purge help us?

BenjaminStigsen
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7/31/2016 12:36:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
So let me start out this topic by saying there's A LOT of different angles on this. So in case you are wondering why I took it to Debate.org to ask this kind of question is that I want you to know this isn't going to be "see I got facts and I know what I'm talking about" I made this to see different opinions on this and different angles. So let's start out by saying that we decided to have a purge in a country and what now? Well murder and torture and any kind of pain given to another human will be legal for 12 hours. So this leaves us with the people in their home locking doors and boarding windows to be safe, then there's the people going out on the street with items and guns to hurt people and then we also have the people that's sick and in institutions which doesn't have the strength nor allowed to participate. So let's say that the purge just started and people have to survive for 12 hours.

Now what I meant with the question "would a purge help us?" I didn't exactly mean -would it help?- it was more like "why would it help?" so there's an obvious 1st answer here which is "the strongest and mentally stable people will more likely be alive when the purge is done"... correct. So after that the people that have survived will be the most stable people right? Of course there will be some people surviving with luck but let's just say that only the people that was meant to be alive are alive after the purge.

So now what we have left is strong and smart people, so already by now our society would be much stronger which is good. Now while there's a purge some people go out there to go on a killing spree "for fun" while others might try to get home but have to kill to be alive and some might even try to help others. But what about those people that go out there to kill because they like it? I'm not talking about it being "fun" I'm talking about the people that kills to see the blood from their victims pouring out on their street. I'm talking about the people that might even be aroused from it. So a bunch of those people will be alive after the purge and then we are left with a strong and healthy society but this time including the mentally unstable. So now we basically have the.. "Insane" people among us.

After the purge is done and property has been destroyed
Now for those guys we could have another discussion, let's imagine that it's like in the movie The Purge. A loud alarm goes off "okay, the purge has started" and then it goes off 12 hours later again because the purge is done. Of course someone out there will continue their killing spree even after the alarm went off. Then it would be murder and what I mean by that is that why is it illegal now if it wasn't before? So people will still die after the purge but the numbers will have gone down A LOT in just a matter of minutes but some people will still end up in jail right after the purge because they "just had to kill a few more people" now it sounds horrible when I put it that way, but that would be the reality of a purge. Now the purge is done and a lot of damage has been made to property and will cost the insurance companies and government a lot of money. So now they will spend billions of dollars to fix something that will get messed up the next purge and that system wouldn't really work out.

Crime will decrease
Now another thing to think about is that crime will decrease and maybe that won't make any sense in the start but just think about it. So let's say a country has roughly around 25k murders every month. Now since it's legal one day in a year, some people will take advantage of that. So in one day maybe 50k will be murdered but that would normally take 2 months for the murders to reach that amount. So in one day they can take away a lot of the percentage from several months by making murder legal for 12 hours. So that would be a good thing by the sound of it.

The innocent people
You have probably thought about the innocents and now I'm talking about sick people, elderly, children, homeless and people just trying to survive in their own home. If you have thought about that, you have probably thought "we don't have any reason to kill them and they don't want to be a part of it". And yes you are right about that. So to keep purges in order we need rules which will more likely just be guidelines. So what if we said hospitals, schools, private property and innocents shall not be harmed. Now a lot of people might just stop at this point and be like "are you ridiculous? The purge wouldn't be fun with those rules" and you might be right. But in order to keep a purge in order we would need rules of some sort and someone will ignore them anyway. There will always be someone to break the rules which is why I said it will be more like guidelines.

Just some of my thoughts and angles on this. So in my personal opinion, I would participate in the purge but should it exist? no.
I didn't mean for this to be offensive in any kind of way.
So thanks for reading and please do reply if you have any valid points or opinions on this topic!
-Benjamin Stigsen
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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7/31/2016 2:37:43 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/31/2016 12:36:55 PM, BenjaminStigsen wrote:
So let me start out this topic by saying there's A LOT of different angles on this. So in case you are wondering why I took it to Debate.org to ask this kind of question is that I want you to know this isn't going to be "see I got facts and I know what I'm talking about" I made this to see different opinions on this and different angles. So let's start out by saying that we decided to have a purge in a country and what now? Well murder and torture and any kind of pain given to another human will be legal for 12 hours. So this leaves us with the people in their home locking doors and boarding windows to be safe, then there's the people going out on the street with items and guns to hurt people and then we also have the people that's sick and in institutions which doesn't have the strength nor allowed to participate. So let's say that the purge just started and people have to survive for 12 hours.

Now what I meant with the question "would a purge help us?" I didn't exactly mean -would it help?- it was more like "why would it help?" so there's an obvious 1st answer here which is "the strongest and mentally stable people will more likely be alive when the purge is done"... correct. So after that the people that have survived will be the most stable people right? Of course there will be some people surviving with luck but let's just say that only the people that was meant to be alive are alive after the purge.

A purge would not help at all. The vast majority of people would not participate because they just don't want to murder anyone; most of us would have no desire to do so. A few who would consider such an act, would do so only because they feel they have been seriously wronged; a reason, one and done. Another small group would participate just for the thrill of mayhem and those who feel as outcasts, whether in truth or imagined. So now we have 3 types of people who would participate, one with a single target, mayhem driven and disenfranchised.

Mayhem driven people are not smart, but rather stupid; just mindless thugs who are typically uneducated and live by a dog-eat-dog ethic. Much like those who loot stores during riots just because they can without regard to the store owners who contributes in taxes and create jobs in their community. No one wants to set up a business in a neighborhood where this type of occurrence is highly probable, resulting in decay of the neighborhood due to lack of jobs, services and goods. It's rare to find a large grocery store in a poor neighborhood because of threat of robbery.

The disenfranchised (society has done me wrong or mentally unstable types) are basically depressed or angry people. No 12 hour window would keep them from continued murder, much like the mass school shooters and Oklahoma federal building bombers. Shuttering the fragile or innocent would be in vain. Again, these people are neither smart, mentally stable or strong.

So now what we have left is strong and smart people, so already by now our society would be much stronger which is good. Now while there's a purge some people go out there to go on a killing spree "for fun" while others might try to get home but have to kill to be alive and some might even try to help others.

If a purge was announced, you can be sure people who do not wish to participate would would be home before it began. If stuck out, killing in self defense is not murder and could cause harm mentally and physically to good smart people, which are the types you really want to keep in society, isn't it?

But what about those people that go out there to kill because they like it? I'm not talking about it being "fun" I'm talking about the people that kills to see the blood from their victims pouring out on their street. I'm talking about the people that might even be aroused from it. So a bunch of those people will be alive after the purge and then we are left with a strong and healthy society but this time including the mentally unstable. So now we basically have the.. "Insane" people among us.

After the purge is done and property has been destroyed
Now for those guys we could have another discussion, let's imagine that it's like in the movie The Purge. A loud alarm goes off "okay, the purge has started" and then it goes off 12 hours later again because the purge is done. Of course someone out there will continue their killing spree even after the alarm went off. Then it would be murder and what I mean by that is that why is it illegal now if it wasn't before? So people will still die after the purge but the numbers will have gone down A LOT in just a matter of minutes but some people will still end up in jail right after the purge because they "just had to kill a few more people" now it sounds horrible when I put it that way, but that would be the reality of a purge. Now the purge is done and a lot of damage has been made to property and will cost the insurance companies and government a lot of money. So now they will spend billions of dollars to fix something that will get messed up the next purge and that system wouldn't really work out.

Crime will decrease
Now another thing to think about is that crime will decrease and maybe that won't make any sense in the start but just think about it. So let's say a country has roughly around 25k murders every month. Now since it's legal one day in a year, some people will take advantage of that. So in one day maybe 50k will be murdered but that would normally take 2 months for the murders to reach that amount. So in one day they can take away a lot of the percentage from several months by making murder legal for 12 hours. So that would be a good thing by the sound of it.

Nope. The majority of murders are not planned, but a result of an immediate situation, drug deal gone wrong, robbery, spouse caught cheating, or knee-jerk revenge. There's nothing to stop or to hold off these types of murders, certainly not a 12 hour window.

The innocent people
You have probably thought about the innocents and now I'm talking about sick people, elderly, children, homeless and people just trying to survive in their own home. If you have thought about that, you have probably thought "we don't have any reason to kill them and they don't want to be a part of it". And yes you are right about that. So to keep purges in order we need rules which will more likely just be guidelines. So what if we said hospitals, schools, private property and innocents shall not be harmed. Now a lot of people might just stop at this point and be like "are you ridiculous? The purge wouldn't be fun with those rules" and you might be right. But in order to keep a purge in order we would need rules of some sort and someone will ignore them anyway. There will always be someone to break the rules which is why I said it will be more like guidelines.

Rules or not, the types of people who would participate in a purge would just ignore them; remember the disenfranchised and the dog-eat-dog thugs? These are really the ONLY types of people who would participate; not the smart or strong. Damage done at the expense of those who don't participate because they will have to pay for the damage and burying the dead.

A purge would be an economic disaster placed on the backs of innocent people. Those who would participate are neither strong, smart, or rule abiding. A 12 hour purge would do nothing to curb murder or mayhem outside this window because most murders are driven by immediate situations. A purge would only increase a death rate without justification; just a real bad idea from all fronts.
BenjaminStigsen
Posts: 10
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7/31/2016 4:26:17 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
@Peepette
You have brought a lot of good thoughts into this and all you wrote made sense, I enjoyed every single thing you wrote and all of your points are valid. But I also want to make sure that you don't see it as if I would like a purge, I'm just looking at it from different angles :)
-Benjamin Stigsen
Peepette
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7/31/2016 6:02:53 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/31/2016 4:26:17 PM, BenjaminStigsen wrote:
@Peepette
You have brought a lot of good thoughts into this and all you wrote made sense, I enjoyed every single thing you wrote and all of your points are valid. But I also want to make sure that you don't see it as if I would like a purge, I'm just looking at it from different angles :)

I don't think you actually would participate. But there is a seed in all of us, especially when we are having a particularly bad day, have the passing fantasy to go out and go nuts, to let off some steam. Thankfully most of us keep these thoughts in check.
bballcrook21
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7/31/2016 6:06:16 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
No. It would simply lead to the deaths of various innocent people and the destruction of property. A purge is the last thing we need. More lawlessness doesn't help a nation.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

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Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/1/2016 10:23:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/31/2016 12:36:55 PM, BenjaminStigsen wrote:
So let me start out this topic by saying there's A LOT of different angles on this. So in case you are wondering why I took it to Debate.org to ask this kind of question is that I want you to know this isn't going to be "see I got facts and I know what I'm talking about" I made this to see different opinions on this and different angles. So let's start out by saying that we decided to have a purge in a country and what now? Well murder and torture and any kind of pain given to another human will be legal for 12 hours. So this leaves us with the people in their home locking doors and boarding windows to be safe, then there's the people going out on the street with items and guns to hurt people and then we also have the people that's sick and in institutions which doesn't have the strength nor allowed to participate. So let's say that the purge just started and people have to survive for 12 hours.

Now what I meant with the question "would a purge help us?" I didn't exactly mean -would it help?- it was more like "why would it help?" so there's an obvious 1st answer here which is "the strongest and mentally stable people will more likely be alive when the purge is done"... correct. So after that the people that have survived will be the most stable people right? Of course there will be some people surviving with luck but let's just say that only the people that was meant to be alive are alive after the purge.

So now what we have left is strong and smart people, so already by now our society would be much stronger which is good. Now while there's a purge some people go out there to go on a killing spree "for fun" while others might try to get home but have to kill to be alive and some might even try to help others. But what about those people that go out there to kill because they like it? I'm not talking about it being "fun" I'm talking about the people that kills to see the blood from their victims pouring out on their street. I'm talking about the people that might even be aroused from it. So a bunch of those people will be alive after the purge and then we are left with a strong and healthy society but this time including the mentally unstable. So now we basically have the.. "Insane" people among us.

After the purge is done and property has been destroyed
Now for those guys we could have another discussion, let's imagine that it's like in the movie The Purge. A loud alarm goes off "okay, the purge has started" and then it goes off 12 hours later again because the purge is done. Of course someone out there will continue their killing spree even after the alarm went off. Then it would be murder and what I mean by that is that why is it illegal now if it wasn't before? So people will still die after the purge but the numbers will have gone down A LOT in just a matter of minutes but some people will still end up in jail right after the purge because they "just had to kill a few more people" now it sounds horrible when I put it that way, but that would be the reality of a purge. Now the purge is done and a lot of damage has been made to property and will cost the insurance companies and government a lot of money. So now they will spend billions of dollars to fix something that will get messed up the next purge and that system wouldn't really work out.

Crime will decrease
Now another thing to think about is that crime will decrease and maybe that won't make any sense in the start but just think about it. So let's say a country has roughly around 25k murders every month. Now since it's legal one day in a year, some people will take advantage of that. So in one day maybe 50k will be murdered but that would normally take 2 months for the murders to reach that amount. So in one day they can take away a lot of the percentage from several months by making murder legal for 12 hours. So that would be a good thing by the sound of it.

The innocent people
You have probably thought about the innocents and now I'm talking about sick people, elderly, children, homeless and people just trying to survive in their own home. If you have thought about that, you have probably thought "we don't have any reason to kill them and they don't want to be a part of it". And yes you are right about that. So to keep purges in order we need rules which will more likely just be guidelines. So what if we said hospitals, schools, private property and innocents shall not be harmed. Now a lot of people might just stop at this point and be like "are you ridiculous? The purge wouldn't be fun with those rules" and you might be right. But in order to keep a purge in order we would need rules of some sort and someone will ignore them anyway. There will always be someone to break the rules which is why I said it will be more like guidelines.

Just some of my thoughts and angles on this. So in my personal opinion, I would participate in the purge but should it exist? no.
I didn't mean for this to be offensive in any kind of way.
So thanks for reading and please do reply if you have any valid points or opinions on this topic!

The way I observe it, smart people resolve their inner strife with words, civilized debates, expose', consensus voting, and majority rule. Majority would find the idea of a violent purge repulsive.

Dumb people resolve their inner strife with guns and knife violence, vengeance, vendettas, fear, and bully coercion. Majority would find the idea of a violent purge exciting!

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have blood thirsty purge participants let loose on themselves, instead of on innocent families and people who find the idea repulsive.

Here's my take:
Every year, let the purge participants age 18 and older fulfill their blood thirst on like-minded people in an huge labyrinth style maze town kind of a thing, of which they enter on their own will, and purge until only one person is left, and after the purge is done, that person could live happily in an asylum until the next purge. Where they could choose to enter again, or return to civilization, and abide by the law.

Yeah, that makes more logical sense to me, you can never completely rid the world of dumb and violent people, but you could make their numbers significantly lower.

Please correct my logic, I would love read objections to my take on a violent purge.
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BenjaminStigsen
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8/2/2016 12:09:08 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
The way I observe it, smart people resolve their inner strife with words, civilized debates, expose', consensus voting, and majority rule. Majority would find the idea of a violent purge repulsive.

Dumb people resolve their inner strife with guns and knife violence, vengeance, vendettas, fear, and bully coercion. Majority would find the idea of a violent purge exciting!

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have blood thirsty purge participants let loose on themselves, instead of on innocent families and people who find the idea repulsive.

Here's my take:
Every year, let the purge participants age 18 and older fulfill their blood thirst on like-minded people in an huge labyrinth style maze town kind of a thing, of which they enter on their own will, and purge until only one person is left, and after the purge is done, that person could live happily in an asylum until the next purge. Where they could choose to enter again, or return to civilization, and abide by the law.

Yeah, that makes more logical sense to me, you can never completely rid the world of dumb and violent people, but you could make their numbers significantly lower.

Please correct my logic, I would love read objections to my take on a violent purge.


Yes exactly! I wouldn't mind a thing like that. If anything that would actually make even more sense than an actual purge all over one country.
Didn't actually think of any arena kind of stuff but now that you say it, it seems way better actually.
-Benjamin Stigsen