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Should Monogamy be the Norm?

bsh1
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8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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desmac
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8/14/2016 8:32:43 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

You would have to ask Norm that question. Or his wives.
gdirulez
Posts: 31
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8/14/2016 8:52:24 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
it's difficult to say, monogamy could be the norm to 1 person yet polygamy could be the norm to another person, and if in both cases everything is done consensually then how could we ever truly decide what is the norm? unless there comes evidence that having a certain relationship be damaging for you I think there won't be a 'norm'

however what is 'normal' is also decided by the majority, if the majority of people consider monogamy to be the only real way for a relationship then the norm would be monogamy, so I think in order to find out you would have to questions allot of people on what their opinion on it all is.

Personally I only want to be in monogamous relationships, however since that's only for me personally it still doesn't have to be the norm.
Hiu
Posts: 980
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8/14/2016 9:42:17 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Personally, I think most of us in western civilization have been socialized to accept monogamy as the "norm" because it's a social concept.
Skepsikyma
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8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz). To say 'urrr, it's hard, and I'm not wired that way' is just stupid, it's like saying 'it's hard to work, so I'm not going to do it', or 'I have natural impulses to be violent, so I should be violent'. Honestly, the fact that this argument is even entertained is reflective of how infantile this society has become; people are so wrapped up in their own libertine wants and needs that they can't look at the big picture or consider the welfare of anyone else in it, even their children. It's basic sh!t, folks.

Polygamy could in theory be a workable norm, but I don't think that it can be practically achieved in our society.

Overall, I apply Chesterton's Gate: if you see an age-old institution, and understand why it came about and what positive function it serves to justify it's existence, then maybe we can talk about whether it still serves a purpose. But if you just come along like Hugh Grant did and say 'I don't know why this institution exists, let's get rid of it!', you ought to be ridiculed and laughed out of the room. This is because a person who fully admits that they have no understanding of something should be the last person to have any input on whether or not it ought to exist.

I also love how they selectively quoted a relationship therapist who is an ardent defender of monogamy, lol.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bsh1
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8/15/2016 12:59:43 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz).

Why is it necessarily those most healthy?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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8/15/2016 1:00:28 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
(Skep, I agree with you--just trying to get a discussion going).
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/15/2016 1:03:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 12:59:43 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz).

Why is it necessarily those most healthy?

Look at statistics for single parent homes and/or children who went through a divorce. Children from stable families outperform them on just about every metric. Monogamy makes better people, and better people make better citizens.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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8/15/2016 1:08:33 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 1:03:54 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:59:43 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz).

Why is it necessarily those most healthy?

Look at statistics for single parent homes and/or children who went through a divorce. Children from stable families outperform them on just about every metric. Monogamy makes better people, and better people make better citizens.

Suppose a married couple had an open relationship, where they could have sex with whomever they wished. This isn't monogamy in the traditional sense, where you commit yourself to a single partner not just economically but also sexually.

What would your thoughts be on the kind of relationship, assuming that they don't divorce?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/15/2016 2:10:09 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 1:08:33 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/15/2016 1:03:54 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:59:43 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz).

Why is it necessarily those most healthy?

Look at statistics for single parent homes and/or children who went through a divorce. Children from stable families outperform them on just about every metric. Monogamy makes better people, and better people make better citizens.

Suppose a married couple had an open relationship, where they could have sex with whomever they wished. This isn't monogamy in the traditional sense, where you commit yourself to a single partner not just economically but also sexually.

What would your thoughts be on the kind of relationship, assuming that they don't divorce?

Terrible example for the children, and it reveals the completely wrong idea about marriage in the first place. There's also the fact that deception is often involved, that even where it is not there can be issues due to a child becoming attached to a partner and then having that bond dissolved. The positive effects that can be observed could also be much better provided by a wide range of extended family.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Karinochka2016
Posts: 11
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8/17/2016 11:31:02 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
As for me, I know that I wouldn't be able to accept that my man can have any days of freedom per year ) It should be a norm as if we love somebody we can't like being touched by anybody else. Otherwise, it is not love, in my opinion. Long-lasting relations, if partners stay together not because they have to due to kids or some other duties, mean that they have strong connection.
cosmetologist,skin care specialist,https://ambrossimo.com...
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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8/17/2016 11:53:21 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

I think people should be free to engage in the kind of relationships that suit them best. I think though it's right for society to normalize monogamous relationships as they are the best environments for children to grow up in.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,545
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8/18/2016 12:17:22 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 11:31:02 PM, Karinochka2016 wrote:
As for me, I know that I wouldn't be able to accept that my man can have any days of freedom per year ) It should be a norm as if we love somebody we can't like being touched by anybody else. Otherwise, it is not love, in my opinion. Long-lasting relations, if partners stay together not because they have to due to kids or some other duties, mean that they have strong connection.

So, basically, it's psychological here - you are saying that a polygamous relationship would make you feel as if you were unwanted by your partner.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
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8/18/2016 12:19:10 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

Personally, I agree with monogamy for reasons already stated by multiple users; however, I am in no position to force my belief on anyone who thinks otherwise, as it would really have no effect anyway.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Hiu
Posts: 980
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8/18/2016 1:50:51 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 1:03:54 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:59:43 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?

If not monogamy, what should replace it? Should there be some kind of qualified monogamy (like something where you are almost exclusive, but allowed a certain number of "cheat" days a year)? Should we have open relations? Should we just scrap the very effort at monogamy?

Please note, I want to talk about "norms," and what the norm should be. So, even if monogamy isn't the norm, it would still be fine for people to be monogamous if that's what they desire.

Please contribute your thoughts. Thank you!

https://www.yahoo.com...

Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz).

Why is it necessarily those most healthy?

Look at statistics for single parent homes and/or children who went through a divorce. Children from stable families outperform them on just about every metric. Monogamy makes better people, and better people make better citizens.

I have to challenge this notion of "stability." Being in a monogamous relationship does not guarantee stability if both parties are not emotionally, physically, and psychologically stable themselves. In essence, there is no guarantee on that spectrum. A single parent household can actually be more stable than a two parent household so I think in most cases this is circumstantial. For example, people of lower income are more likely to divorce than those of higher income, so we see here that money can be an influential factor. There is a difference between being in a monogamous relationship, and sustaining one.

There are some people who are miserable yet they stay in relationships they have no business being in all because of various reasons (one being that some women who live in a lower income bracket feel that its more comfortable to stay in a relationship due to this reason). The divorce according to some is between 40-50% so if indeed monogamy was healthy then we must explain why these couples decided to end their marriage.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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8/19/2016 1:16:59 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Provided that there are a multitude of varying aspects to a relationship, if polygamy is discussed with complex details as it pertains to what each partner involved desires, this could serve to be a favorable notion.

That is merely the theoretical portion.

Monogamy appears to be more ubiquitous than polygamy in the United States, but does this answer for the increased divorce rate? I don't perceive this issue to be solely related to monogamy per se, albeit it could be a driving factor in a lot of instances. I personally find monogamy to be a more sufficient dynamic in relationships in contemporary United States.

Yet the question at hand is, "should it be the norm?"

If it is discovered that polygamy can produce more content/satisfied/operable beneficiaries, than perhaps it can be considered to be viewed as a normal relationship. Relationships frequently affect more than the two involved i.e., children and other family members. A crucial point is then summoned; would a polygamous relationship negatively affect children or family members?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/19/2016 3:07:23 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/18/2016 1:50:51 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 8/15/2016 1:03:54 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/15/2016 12:59:43 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/14/2016 11:12:36 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Monogamy should be the norm because it's socially healthy (family structure and all that jazz).

Why is it necessarily those most healthy?

Look at statistics for single parent homes and/or children who went through a divorce. Children from stable families outperform them on just about every metric. Monogamy makes better people, and better people make better citizens.

I have to challenge this notion of "stability." Being in a monogamous relationship does not guarantee stability if both parties are not emotionally, physically, and psychologically stable themselves. In essence, there is no guarantee on that spectrum. A single parent household can actually be more stable than a two parent household so I think in most cases this is circumstantial. For example, people of lower income are more likely to divorce than those of higher income, so we see here that money can be an influential factor. There is a difference between being in a monogamous relationship, and sustaining one.

There are some people who are miserable yet they stay in relationships they have no business being in all because of various reasons (one being that some women who live in a lower income bracket feel that its more comfortable to stay in a relationship due to this reason). The divorce according to some is between 40-50% so if indeed monogamy was healthy then we must explain why these couples decided to end their marriage.

I think that this dynamic is a bit chicken-and-egg at this point. Because marriages are dissolved lightly, they are entered into lightly. The gravity of the institution has suffered horribly, mostly due to no-fault divorce and the travesty which is family court, which creates a financial incentive to divorce and turns children into pawns.

Pretty much the only way to fix this is at the community level, because every cultural force of our materialist, capitalist, hedonist society is bent on eroding the social institutions which underlie basic human functioning. But I'm cynical, because most communities are too distracted by drugs, mindless entertainment, and the endless grind of survival that a disgusting system like ours fosters to build human relationships and organize in any real way.

I used to have a bit of this in my sig, and it sums it up well. A stronger institution of marriage needs men and women who are 'whole' in a way that most people are not, nowadays:

"The general proposition, not always easy to define exhaustively, that the reign of the capitalist will be the reign of the cad -- that is, of the unlicked type that is neither the citizen nor the gentleman -- can be excellently studied in its attitude towards holidays. The special emblematic Employer of today, especially the Model Employer (who is the worst sort) has in his starved and evil heart a sincere hatred of holidays. I do not mean that he necessarily wants all his workmen to work until they drop; that only occurs when he happens to be stupid as well as wicked. I do not mean to say that he is necessarily unwilling to grant what he would call 'decent hours of labour.' He may treat men like dirt; but if you want to make money, even out of dirt, you must let it lie fallow by some rotation of rest. He may treat men as dogs, but unless he is a lunatic he will for certain periods let sleeping dogs lie.

But humane and reasonable hours for labour have nothing whatever to do with the idea of holidays. It is not even a question of ten hours day and eight-hours day; it is not a question of cutting down leisure to the space necessary for food, sleep and exercise. If the modern employer came to the conclusion, for some reason or other, that he could get most out of his men by working them hard for only two hours a day, his whole mental attitude would still be foreign and hostile to holidays. For his whole mental attitude is that the passive time and the active time are alike useful for him and his business. All is, indeed, grist that comes to his mill, including the millers. His slaves still serve him in unconsciousness, as dogs still hunt in slumber. His grist is ground not only by the sounding wheels of iron, but by the soundless wheel of blood and brain. His sacks are still filling silently when the doors are shut on the streets and the sound of the grinding is low.

Now a holiday has no connection with using a man either by beating or feeding him. When you give a man a holiday you give him back his body and soul. It is quite possible you may be doing him an injury (though he seldom thinks so), but that does not affect the question for those to whom a holiday is holy. Immortality is the great holiday; and a holiday, like the immortality in the old theologies, is a double-edged privilege. But wherever it is genuine it is simply the restoration and completion of the man. If people ever looked at the printed word under their eye, the word 'recreation' would be like the word 'resurrection,' the blast of a trumpet.

A man, being merely useful, is necessarily incomplete, especially if he be a modern man and means by being useful being 'utilitarian.' A man going into a modern club gives up his hat; a man going into a modern factory gives up his head. He then goes in and works loyally for the old firm to build up the great fabric of commerce (which can be done without a head), but when he has done work he goes to the cloak-room, like the man at the club, and gets his head back again; that is the germ of the holiday...

This complete and reconstructed man is the nightmare of the modern capitalist. His whole scheme would crack across like a mirror of Shallot, if once a plain man were ready for his two plain duties -- ready to live and ready to die. And that horror of holidays which marks the modern capitalist is very largely a horror of the vision of a whole human being: something that is not a 'hand' or a 'head for figures,' but an awful creature who has met himself in the wilderness. The employers will give time to eat, time to sleep; they are in terror of a time to think.

To anyone who knows any history it is wholly needless to say that holidays have been destroyed. As Mr. Belloc, who knows much more history than you or I, recently pointed out in the 'Pall Mall Magazine,' Shakespeare's title of 'Twelfth Night: or What You Will' simply meant that a winter carnival for everybody went on wildly till the twelfth night after Christmas. Those of my readers who work for modern offices or factories might ask their employers for twelve days' holidays after Christmas. And they might let me know the reply."
- Utopia of Usurers, G. K. Chesterton -
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
NHN
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8/20/2016 10:20:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:32:45 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I recently read an article (linked below) about the challenges of a monogamous relationship--including growing sexually or romantically bored with a long-term partner. Given these challenges, should monogamy be the norm?
This is, in the first analysis, a question of how one interprets individual and social conditions. Should marriage be mandated by government, as it is now, or should it be entirely privatized? Is there perhaps a middle ground?

Jillian Keenan at Slate (http://www.slate.com...) cites libertarian as well as ultra-religious sources and rightly points out that children aren't negatively affected by their parents' sexual habits. At present, parents in polyamorous partnerships become second-class citizens, as society both formally and implicitly maintains a multi-tiered system of legitimacy for adult sexual practices. In short, the current order breeds discrimination.

That said, there is a social aspect which we cannot fail to overlook, as marriage privatization regards more than the introduction of polyamory. In societies where polygamy is currently allowed, as in conservative Islamic societies, it is in actuality an order of unbalanced polygyny: one old, rich guy acquires several young wives; there it is not a matter of love but power. And in surveys of 69 polygamous cultures, co-wife relations were disharmonious without exception (see Libby Copeland's Slate article: http://www.slate.com...). In short, reintroducing polygyny would generate significant spousal strife, as well as an excess of young, poor, single men who have no realistic path toward an amorous union.

In sum, the question can't be answered without grounding marriage in either the private or the public interest. As a social libertarian, I naturally support placing decisions in the hands of individuals. But I would never accept a return to premodern social conditions for the sake of theoretical purity. In the case of polygamy and polyamory we will simply have to find other ways of achieving equality rather than through formal legal recognition.