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Rape and Alcohol on Campus

ford_prefect
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9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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9/14/2016 3:09:17 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Never thought I'd see the day that I agreed with you.
Tsar of DDO
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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9/14/2016 5:32:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

They tried that bit already, lol.

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FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,207
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9/14/2016 11:10:40 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Were you a female, would you ever attend a frat party in which the banner declaring said party that was hung in no uncertain verbiage stated "Guys by invite only, all ladies welcome"?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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9/14/2016 1:09:05 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

Ya know from what I hear, most people who get drunk DON"T go and rape, so yeah maybe banning alcohol isn't the answer.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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9/14/2016 2:38:20 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:09:05 PM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

Ya know from what I hear, most people who get drunk DON"T go and rape, so yeah maybe banning alcohol isn't the answer.

so the blame is alcohol? the inanimate object again? I think a large majority of these attacks involve both parties drinking too much or the female drinking too much. The instances where the male drank too much and the female was sober is probably the same if not less of an occurrence as when it happens when both are sober. There's no way to enforce a ban like that, they'd go off campus, sneak it in, whatever. Drinking age limit laws are broken all the time.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 369
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9/14/2016 2:41:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 3:09:17 AM, YYW wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Never thought I'd see the day that I agreed with you.

I recall not so long ago that a college had a program that encouraged females to not binge drink at parties and the feminists were riled up because apparently this is victim blaming for rape.
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

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NothingSpecial99
Posts: 369
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9/14/2016 2:43:04 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 2:41:12 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 9/14/2016 3:09:17 AM, YYW wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Never thought I'd see the day that I agreed with you.

I recall not so long ago that a college had a program that encouraged females to not binge drink at parties and the feminists were riled up because apparently this is victim blaming for rape.

Found it:
http://heatst.com...
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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9/14/2016 2:51:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 11:10:40 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.


Were you a female, would you ever attend a frat party in which the banner declaring said party that was hung in no uncertain verbiage stated "Guys by invite only, all ladies welcome"?

No, in fact I'm a male and I never attended a frat party in college. They just seemed disgusting and the kind of girls who went to them weren't really my type.
FaustianJustice
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9/14/2016 3:11:10 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:09:05 PM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

Ya know from what I hear, most people who get drunk DON"T go and rape, so yeah maybe banning alcohol isn't the answer.

From what I hear its the opposite. One or both parties had "had a few". 80% some odd percent of sexual assaults had reported being incapacitated or drunk when assaulted. 90% of "acquaintance rape" involves alcohol.

Speaking generally, it seems as though when females drink, their chance of being assaulted grows exponentially.

Perhaps its just women that shouldn't be drinking.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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9/14/2016 4:23:40 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 3:11:10 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:09:05 PM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

Ya know from what I hear, most people who get drunk DON"T go and rape, so yeah maybe banning alcohol isn't the answer.


From what I hear its the opposite. One or both parties had "had a few". 80% some odd percent of sexual assaults had reported being incapacitated or drunk when assaulted. 90% of "acquaintance rape" involves alcohol.

Speaking generally, it seems as though when females drink, their chance of being assaulted grows exponentially.

Perhaps its just women that shouldn't be drinking.

objectively that makes a lot of sense, you'll get flamed I'm sure, but take the emotion of out it and it's a strong statement.
slo1
Posts: 4,320
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9/14/2016 5:57:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

I'm not certain why a person should not be expected to follow the law whether they have been drinking or not. The idea is that freedoms should be supported , iE: a person of legal age can drink all they want. Yet expect those drinking are able to control themselves and remain within the bound of the law.

Back to your question. I could just as easily ask why those looking to reduce rapes don't advocate more women only and male only colleges or some other contrived way that would causer rapes to go down. How about estrogen shots to reduce testosterone?

Yes, it is indeed wise for all people to take responsibility for their own personal saftey. Don't go on the ocean without a radio in the boat. Don't get so incompacitated you black out or have severely impaired judgement. Don't do xyz that puts you at increased risk.

It is also not unreasonable to expect men to not stick our wankers in a woman unless consent is made when sober.

A woman who passes out on the street and gets raped could have prevented it. Sure, but there is a reason why the man who perpetrates the rape goes to jail. The man committed the crime. The woman didn't.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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9/14/2016 6:20:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

What leads you to think that the feminists complaining about acquaintance rape aren't also against frats and alcohol on campus?
Vox_Veritas
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9/14/2016 9:54:23 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 5:57:49 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

I'm not certain why a person should not be expected to follow the law whether they have been drinking or not. The idea is that freedoms should be supported , iE: a person of legal age can drink all they want. Yet expect those drinking are able to control themselves and remain within the bound of the law.

Alcohol impairs judgment; people under the influence of alcohol might act on illicit desires that they could easily suppress when sober.
We can and do prosecute people for actions committed under the influence of alcohol the same way that we would if they committed those acts while sober, but this is a somewhat useless approach. People have not been told by our larger society to abstain from alcohol (and few young people take what religious institutions say seriously), so they will drink; when they do drink to the point of intoxication, what they do after that is more or less out of their control, so we end up punishing criminals while doing almost nothing to prevent the crime from occurring in the first place.
Some people behave themselves while drunk, others do not; one has no way of knowing which of the two will be the case until there is a case of him or her misbehaving while drunk; even if someone gets drunk on dozens of occasions and nothing happens, that's no sure indication that an incident will never occur.

Back to your question. I could just as easily ask why those looking to reduce rapes don't advocate more women only and male only colleges or some other contrived way that would causer rapes to go down. How about estrogen shots to reduce testosterone?

If college students of both genders are told not to drink, I don't see how that is unfair.

Yes, it is indeed wise for all people to take responsibility for their own personal saftey. Don't go on the ocean without a radio in the boat. Don't get so incompacitated you black out or have severely impaired judgement. Don't do xyz that puts you at increased risk.

It is also not unreasonable to expect men to not stick our wankers in a woman unless consent is made when sober.

But then again, you might also be drunk. If she gives her "consent" while drunk, and you also act on this given "consent" while drunk, why are you more at fault than her?

A woman who passes out on the street and gets raped could have prevented it. Sure, but there is a reason why the man who perpetrates the rape goes to jail. The man committed the crime. The woman didn't.
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ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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9/14/2016 11:15:40 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 6:20:13 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

What leads you to think that the feminists complaining about acquaintance rape aren't also against frats and alcohol on campus?

Because every time I see a call to reduce alcohol consumption or fight alcoholic party culture (which is largely linked to frats at many schools) the response from feminists is "alcohol isn't to blame, it's the men's fault for raping." I can link you to articles if you want but simply googling "Emily Yoffe Slate article" should get some typical reactions.

Obviously we should hold men who rape responsible for their actions. However, it's disingenuous to suggest that alcohol doesn't play a significant role in increasing the incidence of campus sexual assault.
Burzmali
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9/14/2016 11:48:29 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 11:15:40 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 9/14/2016 6:20:13 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

What leads you to think that the feminists complaining about acquaintance rape aren't also against frats and alcohol on campus?

Because every time I see a call to reduce alcohol consumption or fight alcoholic party culture (which is largely linked to frats at many schools) the response from feminists is "alcohol isn't to blame, it's the men's fault for raping." I can link you to articles if you want but simply googling "Emily Yoffe Slate article" should get some typical reactions.

That sentiment isn't incompatible with wanting less alcohol on campus or being against frats. Also, Emily Yoffe was Dear Prudence, so googling her and Slate just pulls up her Prudence stuff. So a link would be appreciated.

Obviously we should hold men who rape responsible for their actions. However, it's disingenuous to suggest that alcohol doesn't play a significant role in increasing the incidence of campus sexual assault.

I don't know anyone who claims alcohol doesn't play a role. The complaint is that focusing on its role minimizes the rapist's culpability.
ford_prefect
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9/15/2016 12:00:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 11:48:29 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 9/14/2016 11:15:40 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 9/14/2016 6:20:13 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

What leads you to think that the feminists complaining about acquaintance rape aren't also against frats and alcohol on campus?

Because every time I see a call to reduce alcohol consumption or fight alcoholic party culture (which is largely linked to frats at many schools) the response from feminists is "alcohol isn't to blame, it's the men's fault for raping." I can link you to articles if you want but simply googling "Emily Yoffe Slate article" should get some typical reactions.

That sentiment isn't incompatible with wanting less alcohol on campus or being against frats. Also, Emily Yoffe was Dear Prudence, so googling her and Slate just pulls up her Prudence stuff. So a link would be appreciated.
http://www.slate.com...
There are several links in that piece, and Yoffe herself also talks about the email responses she received.
Obviously we should hold men who rape responsible for their actions. However, it's disingenuous to suggest that alcohol doesn't play a significant role in increasing the incidence of campus sexual assault.

I don't know anyone who claims alcohol doesn't play a role. The complaint is that focusing on its role minimizes the rapist's culpability.

So hypothetically, would feminists prefer to live in a world where only 1 woman is raped each year, but that rapist is only mildly punished, Brock Turner style? Or a world where 1 million women are raped each year, but every single rapist is punished to the full extent of the law?

Anyway I don't think it's reasonable to think that fighting alcohol abuse on college campuses would somehow cause people to think rapists were less responsible for their actions than before.
slo1
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9/15/2016 12:09:51 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 9:54:23 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/14/2016 5:57:49 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

I'm not certain why a person should not be expected to follow the law whether they have been drinking or not. The idea is that freedoms should be supported , iE: a person of legal age can drink all they want. Yet expect those drinking are able to control themselves and remain within the bound of the law.

Alcohol impairs judgment; people under the influence of alcohol might act on illicit desires that they could easily suppress when sober.
We can and do prosecute people for actions committed under the influence of alcohol the same way that we would if they committed those acts while sober, but this is a somewhat useless approach. People have not been told by our larger society to abstain from alcohol (and few young people take what religious institutions say seriously), so they will drink; when they do drink to the point of intoxication, what they do after that is more or less out of their control, so we end up punishing criminals while doing almost nothing to prevent the crime from occurring in the first place.
Some people behave themselves while drunk, others do not; one has no way of knowing which of the two will be the case until there is a case of him or her misbehaving while drunk; even if someone gets drunk on dozens of occasions and nothing happens, that's no sure indication that an incident will never occur.

I agree. Getting drunk is risky behavior. There is no excuse for being out of control while being drunk as it was the decision of the actor to get drunk in the first place. I do believe it is possible to drink responsibly and yes there should be programs to teach kids the level of control they relenquish when they get blitzed. They should also be told any crime they committ is still their responsiblity.

Look, I get what you are saying. Just becuase I have an expectation to not be killed doesn't mean I won't get murdered, but it is not wrong to have an opinion that a right to life is valid.

Every man going to college should be taught you DO NOT have sex with a woman unless you are 100% certain it is consentual and consensus obtained while extremely impaired is questionable.

Back to your question. I could just as easily ask why those looking to reduce rapes don't advocate more women only and male only colleges or some other contrived way that would causer rapes to go down. How about estrogen shots to reduce testosterone?

If college students of both genders are told not to drink, I don't see how that is unfair.

I don't think there is anything unfair with colleges restricting alcohol or even eliminating it on campus.

Yes, it is indeed wise for all people to take responsibility for their own personal saftey. Don't go on the ocean without a radio in the boat. Don't get so incompacitated you black out or have severely impaired judgement. Don't do xyz that puts you at increased risk.

It is also not unreasonable to expect men to not stick our wankers in a woman unless consent is made when sober.

But then again, you might also be drunk. If she gives her "consent" while drunk, and you also act on this given "consent" while drunk, why are you more at fault than her?

I'm not blaming fault. It is risky behavior in itself to have sex when one can not prove consent with a partner.

A woman who passes out on the street and gets raped could have prevented it. Sure, but there is a reason why the man who perpetrates the rape goes to jail. The man committed the crime. The woman didn't.
Quadrunner
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9/15/2016 1:49:56 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Listening to "Don't even know his last name" right now by Carrie Underwood. Technically she was probably raped in that song, wow. Technically a lot of guys get raped and enjoy it so much they decide not to press charges, and girls to for that matter. At the point you are legally unable to consent, at least from my only perspective is before the point that you actually lose the ability to consent. How does that work if both parties are drunk then? Is it the guy's fault, or the girls if neither consented? Very interesting to think about.

For me personally, Alcohol does not necessarily effect my thought processes (just slows them down) until I'm keeling over, but it does shut my filters off. Things that I would normally want to do, but had valid reasons to refrain from, well I just do them and figure I'll worry about the reasons in the morning. Decision making is greatly inhibited, but its not like it isn't me making the decision, or the decision to put myself in that state.

I tend to acknowledge the stupidity (bad word I know) of placing yourself (Guy or girl) in such a state before whatever happens to you after, as what you have more control over is the sober decision to intoxicate yourself and you can only change what you can control. That's not the popular view at the present, as people focus on "but he RAPED HER", and spit out nonsense about short skirts instead of the potentially avoidable decisions both parties made leading up to that point but I believe teaching common sense and moral values on both sides is the most effective way towards not having a news article in the first place.

I'd think you're on the right track for reducing less intentional rapes, and protecting against more violent ones. The thing is, under aged drinking is this thing you're not supposed to do, and so doesn't always get taught properly to a lot of kids just gaining true freedom and exploring new things themselves. My school was in one of the heaviest drinking cities in the country and had an excellent wellness class catering to the illegal, and unrecommended but semi-managed culture. Granted there will likely always be bad people, and stupid people, but I found the program to be very effective by simply acknowledging and teaching how to drink without dying, throwing your life away, or killing someone. I personally have no idea how common that is though.
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triangle.128k
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9/15/2016 4:29:59 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
- drinks way too much -
- does stupid things -
- decides to sleep with some guy -
- regrets their stupidity later on -
- makes themselves feel better by accusing the guy they slept with of "rape!" -

Summary of every one of these incidents to have happened.
triangle.128k
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9/15/2016 4:31:36 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

It isn't rape if someone consents at first and regrets it later on, thus the whole rape culture is absolute paranoia and terror perpetuated by feminists.
FaustianJustice
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9/15/2016 12:02:58 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 5:57:49 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

I'm not certain why a person should not be expected to follow the law whether they have been drinking or not. The idea is that freedoms should be supported , iE: a person of legal age can drink all they want. Yet expect those drinking are able to control themselves and remain within the bound of the law.

Back to your question. I could just as easily ask why those looking to reduce rapes don't advocate more women only and male only colleges or some other contrived way that would causer rapes to go down. How about estrogen shots to reduce testosterone?

For the same reason not testosterone shots to make the females more compliant.

Yes, it is indeed wise for all people to take responsibility for their own personal saftey. Don't go on the ocean without a radio in the boat. Don't get so incompacitated you black out or have severely impaired judgement. Don't do xyz that puts you at increased risk.

It is also not unreasonable to expect men to not stick our wankers in a woman unless consent is made when sober.

Its a penis. Not a breathalyzer. A female' desires at the time are (by majority) the de facto determination if something is rape or sexual assault, or what have not. This is a 100% subjective interpretation that hinges upon the whims of the female at the time, of which sobriety is involved, regarding these varieties of social interactions and alcohol. The male party literally has no power in the matter. And, literally, a "yes" on the matter can still be a "no". Currently, the variety of laws that have been drafted are clearly biased toward protecting the female, not from the male, but in giving her the ability to say "no" post event, thus exonerating her from whatever decisions (however poor) they might have been while intoxicated. The level of intoxication need not matter. The level of intoxication need not even be proven.

The majority of out cry regarding campus sexual assault and rape is not about toxic masculinity, though it is about protecting women.

From themselves.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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slo1
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9/15/2016 12:56:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/15/2016 12:02:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/14/2016 5:57:49 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

I'm not certain why a person should not be expected to follow the law whether they have been drinking or not. The idea is that freedoms should be supported , iE: a person of legal age can drink all they want. Yet expect those drinking are able to control themselves and remain within the bound of the law.

Back to your question. I could just as easily ask why those looking to reduce rapes don't advocate more women only and male only colleges or some other contrived way that would causer rapes to go down. How about estrogen shots to reduce testosterone?

For the same reason not testosterone shots to make the females more compliant.

Yes, it is indeed wise for all people to take responsibility for their own personal saftey. Don't go on the ocean without a radio in the boat. Don't get so incompacitated you black out or have severely impaired judgement. Don't do xyz that puts you at increased risk.

It is also not unreasonable to expect men to not stick our wankers in a woman unless consent is made when sober.

Its a penis. Not a breathalyzer. A female' desires at the time are (by majority) the de facto determination if something is rape or sexual assault, or what have not. This is a 100% subjective interpretation that hinges upon the whims of the female at the time, of which sobriety is involved, regarding these varieties of social interactions and alcohol. The male party literally has no power in the matter. And, literally, a "yes" on the matter can still be a "no". Currently, the variety of laws that have been drafted are clearly biased toward protecting the female, not from the male, but in giving her the ability to say "no" post event, thus exonerating her from whatever decisions (however poor) they might have been while intoxicated. The level of intoxication need not matter. The level of intoxication need not even be proven.

I agree, it is risky behavior for men to have sex with women in college in a casual manner even more so when alcohol is involved. It is perfectly fine to say that women should be vigilant in protecting themselves. It is not fine to declare men are the victims and have no responsibility to protect themselves.

The majority of out cry regarding campus sexual assault and rape is not about toxic masculinity, though it is about protecting women.

From themselves.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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9/15/2016 1:01:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Honestly,
I teach my beautiful young teenaged daughters that getting drunk, blacking out, losing control is tried and true recipe for disaster.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

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kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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9/15/2016 1:14:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/15/2016 4:31:36 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

It isn't rape if someone consents at first and regrets it later on, thus the whole rape culture is absolute paranoia and terror perpetuated by feminists.

amy schumer prime example
Aren't Frat houses normally off campus? Some colleges already ban alcohol. So to better put things into context, how many college, alcohol related rapes occur on campus, and how many occur off. Then you can look at if an alcohol ban on campus would really make any difference or not with regards to alcohol related rapes.
PetersSmith
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9/15/2016 3:22:54 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

Some do lol. Such as I. Try not to generalize "feminists".
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Quadrunner
Posts: 1,080
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9/15/2016 3:37:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/15/2016 1:14:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/15/2016 4:31:36 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

It isn't rape if someone consents at first and regrets it later on, thus the whole rape culture is absolute paranoia and terror perpetuated by feminists.

amy schumer prime example
Aren't Frat houses normally off campus? Some colleges already ban alcohol. So to better put things into context, how many college, alcohol related rapes occur on campus, and how many occur off. Then you can look at if an alcohol ban on campus would really make any difference or not with regards to alcohol related rapes.

I'd generally argue off the seat of my pants, that regardless of any study both dry and wet campuses will have similar amounts of alcohol consumption. This isn't just a lightly made statement based on perception (That too though), but my logical assumption based on the usual consensus being that the majority of people living on campus are underage drinkers to start with and already breaking the law, and in the end, the people who would be at the forefront of enforcement are typically fellow students. Now back to subjectivity. If you got caught drinking on my campus, you were out.....So we just went off campus to get wasted lol. The Refrigerator in your room might as well be a vault because there is no excuse for any college level authority to search it. Hell, some people even concealed Banned refridgerator dimensions inside their cabinet. Its personal property and can't be opened without a legal warrant. As long as you didn't make noise after quiet hours in the dorms there is no reason anyone can search your room either in most settings, not without proper notice.

To answer your question, Frat Houses are almost always off campus, but it is common for them to be on the university's Property, or some sort of funding program, and still subject to campus rules. At my school, there was one "independent" Frat, and one with a "alcohol license" or something. Of course, they were all heavily soundproofed, and could be sealed off to outside observation very efficiently.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,080
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9/15/2016 3:44:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/15/2016 3:37:17 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 9/15/2016 1:14:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/15/2016 4:31:36 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

It isn't rape if someone consents at first and regrets it later on, thus the whole rape culture is absolute paranoia and terror perpetuated by feminists.

amy schumer prime example
Aren't Frat houses normally off campus? Some colleges already ban alcohol. So to better put things into context, how many college, alcohol related rapes occur on campus, and how many occur off. Then you can look at if an alcohol ban on campus would really make any difference or not with regards to alcohol related rapes.

I'd generally argue off the seat of my pants, that regardless of any study both dry and wet campuses will have similar amounts of alcohol consumption. This isn't just a lightly made statement based on perception (That too though), but my logical assumption based on the usual consensus being that the majority of people living on campus are underage drinkers to start with and already breaking the law, and in the end, the people who would be at the forefront of enforcement are typically fellow students. Now back to subjectivity. If you got caught drinking on my campus, you were out.....So we just went off campus to get wasted lol. The Refrigerator in your room might as well be a vault because there is no excuse for any college level authority to search it. Hell, some people even concealed Banned refridgerator dimensions inside their cabinet. Its personal property and can't be opened without a legal warrant. As long as you didn't make noise after quiet hours in the dorms there is no reason anyone can search your room either in most settings, not without proper notice.

To answer your question, Frat Houses are almost always off campus, but it is common for them to be on the university's Property, or some sort of funding program, and still subject to campus rules. At my school, there was one "independent" Frat, and one with a "alcohol license" or something. Of course, they were all heavily soundproofed, and could be sealed off to outside observation very efficiently.

What I'm trying to get at here, is there is a fair chance school culture will play more of a roll then school policy will, not that policy change would be ineffective at all.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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9/15/2016 3:46:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/15/2016 3:37:17 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 9/15/2016 1:14:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/15/2016 4:31:36 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

It isn't rape if someone consents at first and regrets it later on, thus the whole rape culture is absolute paranoia and terror perpetuated by feminists.

amy schumer prime example
Aren't Frat houses normally off campus? Some colleges already ban alcohol. So to better put things into context, how many college, alcohol related rapes occur on campus, and how many occur off. Then you can look at if an alcohol ban on campus would really make any difference or not with regards to alcohol related rapes.

I'd generally argue off the seat of my pants, that regardless of any study both dry and wet campuses will have similar amounts of alcohol consumption. This isn't just a lightly made statement based on perception (That too though), but my logical assumption based on the usual consensus being that the majority of people living on campus are underage drinkers to start with and already breaking the law, and in the end, the people who would be at the forefront of enforcement are typically fellow students. Now back to subjectivity. If you got caught drinking on my campus, you were out.....So we just went off campus to get wasted lol. The Refrigerator in your room might as well be a vault because there is no excuse for any college level authority to search it. Hell, some people even concealed Banned refridgerator dimensions inside their cabinet. Its personal property and can't be opened without a legal warrant. As long as you didn't make noise after quiet hours in the dorms there is no reason anyone can search your room either in most settings, not without proper notice.

To answer your question, Frat Houses are almost always off campus, but it is common for them to be on the university's Property, or some sort of funding program, and still subject to campus rules. At my school, there was one "independent" Frat, and one with a "alcohol license" or something. Of course, they were all heavily soundproofed, and could be sealed off to outside observation very efficiently.

Are you saying some might not follow a ban?!?!?!? Surely you jest!
Seriously thanks for the reply, that was informative.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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9/15/2016 4:54:25 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/15/2016 12:00:11 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 9/14/2016 11:48:29 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 9/14/2016 11:15:40 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 9/14/2016 6:20:13 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 9/14/2016 1:35:26 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
If feminists were serious about decreasing sexual assaults on college campuses, they'd be campaigning to ban alcohol consumption or at least to seriously enforce the rules against underage drinking.

Literally every single incident that I have seen reported has involved alcohol, with either the perpetrator, the victim, or in most cases both of them being drunk.

The fact is that yes, most campus rapes are committed by men. However, fraternity members are also disproportionately likely to rape, and alcohol accounts for something like 90% of all acquaintance rape. (Perhaps on a related note, frat boys tend to drink a lot!) I've seen studies that put the percentage of college rapes involving alcohol around 70%, and even that seems very low to me.

In any event, if you actually care about reducing rape, you would support doing away with frats and banning alcohol consumption. The fact that feminists choose to scapegoat "toxic masculinity" instead is just laughable.

What leads you to think that the feminists complaining about acquaintance rape aren't also against frats and alcohol on campus?

Because every time I see a call to reduce alcohol consumption or fight alcoholic party culture (which is largely linked to frats at many schools) the response from feminists is "alcohol isn't to blame, it's the men's fault for raping." I can link you to articles if you want but simply googling "Emily Yoffe Slate article" should get some typical reactions.

That sentiment isn't incompatible with wanting less alcohol on campus or being against frats. Also, Emily Yoffe was Dear Prudence, so googling her and Slate just pulls up her Prudence stuff. So a link would be appreciated.
http://www.slate.com...
There are several links in that piece, and Yoffe herself also talks about the email responses she received.

I agree with Emily on this, but I don't see how it supports your idea that feminists are somehow against working to ban alcohol and frats on campus. Emily herself points out that the major criticism is that the alcohol discussion tends to focus on women and ignore men, and that such is a valid criticism.

Obviously we should hold men who rape responsible for their actions. However, it's disingenuous to suggest that alcohol doesn't play a significant role in increasing the incidence of campus sexual assault.

I don't know anyone who claims alcohol doesn't play a role. The complaint is that focusing on its role minimizes the rapist's culpability.

So hypothetically, would feminists prefer to live in a world where only 1 woman is raped each year, but that rapist is only mildly punished, Brock Turner style? Or a world where 1 million women are raped each year, but every single rapist is punished to the full extent of the law?

In addition to being a false dichotomy, this question makes no sense and doesn't seem to connect well to anything in this discussion.

Anyway I don't think it's reasonable to think that fighting alcohol abuse on college campuses would somehow cause people to think rapists were less responsible for their actions than before.

Literally no one is making that argument. A general appeal to reduce alcohol consumption on campus, and to keep fraternities away, is not the same thing as responding with "well, women shouldn't drink so much" when women complain about the frequency of sexual assault at college.