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Racist Rant

Vox_Veritas
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9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)
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HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
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9/18/2016 12:49:42 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

Wow, how interesting. Maybe if Americans were actually smart, they would have realized that. Too bad though.
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/18/2016 12:53:59 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

I love the way you expressed your rant. More of this kind of communication needs to take place, and maybe this country can heal! Never once did you play the blame game, you simply expressed the perspective of people who you understand. I hope the responses you get are respectful of your right to express your perspective.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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9/18/2016 11:40:13 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

thought provoking rant,

In this situation, I'm thinking the concept of applying logic often escapes collective thinkers, as it is completely logical and acceptable that the majority rules, the majority has the privilege in every aspect of nature, and that this is not a discrepancy or an offense.

However, when anyone evokes "white privilege" as an offense, it is a direct reflection of one particular instance that I recall where the minority rules, and is afforded privilege;

A baby in a household: A demanding, logically inept, emotionally driven infant, who's crying and throwing tantrums provokes the mommy and daddy to coddle to its' demands by any means necessary. Some infants are sated, some are never sated no matter how hard you try.

Therein lies the challenge, convincing minorities that they are not infants that require coddling in USA, and that their minority status and privilege disadvantage doesn't preclude a successful self sustaining livelihood the same as their majority/privileged counterparts within USA. Some accept this concept clearly (Asians), and some don't (Blacks and progressive liberals).

I think it's important to stand your ground, and have the courage to call out bullsh*t wherever you find it. Yes, you will be bombarded with insults from the opposition, but insults do not prove you wrong.

Allow Ben Shapiro to give some further perspective: https://www.youtube.com...
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
Nac
Posts: 326
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9/18/2016 2:01:19 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/18/2016 12:49:42 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

Wow, how interesting. Maybe if Americans were actually smart, they would have realized that. Too bad though.

Well, that was random.

Do you think Americans as a whole are SJWs or academics? If not, I don't really see how Americans are responsible for these actions.

This, of course, assumes you are referring to the effects espousing white privilege will yield when talking to the average white person. Is that what you are talking about? If not, I really do not see what you are talking about.

If you are going to call a group of people stupid, I would advise you to make sure your own statements convey some sort of discernible message. Otherwise, it depletes your credibility immensely.

Just some friendly advice. Feel free to disagree, or to explain what the intended point of your initial post was. I am not going to state that it is impossible for your post to have had a point, but I simply do not see it, which dilutes your insult's power.

Moving on to the OP's post, I would make the distinction that the people who discuss white privilege do not necessarily intend to draw animosity towards white people. It could be meant as a simple acknowledgment of the benefits certain demographics have over others, which can be true in a society.

The problem comes when these benefits are deemed unquestionable by those who propose it, and when the privilege is assumed to be negative in the same fashion. These things require evidence in order to be taken seriously. Otherwise, anyone could claim that one demographic has privilege over another, even white people in the 1860s. It can also be forgotten that some people deserve their privilege. For example, I doubt anyone would deny that wealth is a privilege, but would anyone claim that Bill Gates should not be rich? I would not. He was a good entrepreneur who created one of the most profitable corporations of our time. In other words, he deserves it for some other factor of the equation, namely, his ingenuity.

I am not intending to show that all privilege is earned, but attempting to show that it is possible for some to be earned. This example should give credence to the idea.

Aside from these caveats, I think your diagnosis of the problem is quite well-put, Vox. The subtext of the conversation of white privilege certainly looks as though it is painting white people as the villain, and it is perfectly reasonable for white people to respond to this. I just think the problem is the presentation, not necessarily the content.

Cheers.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
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9/18/2016 4:42:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

Good post, and nice disclaimer at the end. NHN can't argue about race relations without calling everybody a racist neo-Nazi.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.
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Emmarie
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9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!
kevin24018
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9/19/2016 3:45:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/18/2016 12:49:42 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

Wow, how interesting. Maybe if Americans were actually smart, they would have realized that. Too bad though.

Too bad your ignorance doesn't make you aware of how many different cultures, religions and races you just insulted.
kevin24018
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9/19/2016 3:53:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

And really this points out the fallacy of so called white privilege, if anything it's wealth privilege, just look at some high profile court cases, if you have the money you can get away with murder, if the glove doesn't fit.......If you are successful in a mostly white area let's say 90%, are you successful because of your privilege, what privilege do you have over someone you don't compete or come into contact with?
What kind of scenario can be given for 2 family's on welfare that shows privilege? Privilege is different than an individual showing a preference btw.
Emmarie
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9/19/2016 10:16:18 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 3:53:46 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

And really this points out the fallacy of so called white privilege, if anything it's wealth privilege, just look at some high profile court cases, if you have the money you can get away with murder, if the glove doesn't fit.......If you are successful in a mostly white area let's say 90%, are you successful because of your privilege, what privilege do you have over someone you don't compete or come into contact with?
What kind of scenario can be given for 2 family's on welfare that shows privilege? Privilege is different than an individual showing a preference btw.
White privilege is not a fallacy, and it's because the cultural conditioning of mainstream society has poor white people exactly where it wants them, so they aren't the targets of authorities, (governmental or individuals with power: store owners etc) like people with brown skin who authoritative types assume to be from a more corrupt culture.

The privileges poor whites have over poor blacks, is that people in authority aren't looking for a reason to charge them with wrongdoing off the bat. They are innocent until proven guilty. Non-white people are often assumed guilty unless they can prove their innocence. Culturally poor white people are taught to make nice with authorities and tell them what they want to hear. Some black individuals are raised to be expressive and truly believe in the rights the constitution grants them but isn't administered toward them, so they argue with authorities thinking their constitutional rights actually mean something. Poor whites have been conditioned to pay lip service to those who are upper echelon or in positions of authority, so the are cut slack for making the oppressors feel more important.
Quadrunner
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9/19/2016 10:16:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

Wow, you put so much thought into that. I feel like you really hit the nail on the head on how many people feel on the subject, in my area at least. Though on BLM. I believe my Uncle touched on the root of peoples' distaste for the organization in my area pretty well when he was just passing through.

"Hmm Black lives matter...Well, they're standing in the middle of a 70 mile an hour interstate so I guess they don't."

Point being, the organization that is supposed to be showing "black lives matter" has been causing trouble, and building a bit of a negative reputation around here by somehow attracting, almost like its activating something, people that are making poor decisions. That's all people have against it around here I believe.

I feel that reputation defeats the original purpose of the organization as well, and hindering that purpose definitely doesn't sit well with me personally. I recall BLM overexaggerating issues to, so nothing personal, but I'll likely never support them or hold their words with weight as I value sincerity, transparency and honesty more then most do.

I never really pay too much attention to them to tell you the truth. I'm really interested in social statistics and research them heavily, but I just don't care what people claim my race is and its never had that personal tinge in my heart that a lot people purportedly experience. I had a couple women test that theory this week. One was racist, and the other was overly absorbed in racial equality. Both were annoying, but S'no big really, as long as we keep it out in the open (but don't over do it) where it can improve. The important thing in my little world is that neither I, nor my friends and family have been held back by something as petty as racial associations in my memorable lifetime...Well besides my uncle anyway. So I'm a happy camper up here in the midwest :)

Anyway, that's my less involved perspective on the subject. Its always pretty hard to speak for "the people".
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Vox_Veritas
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9/19/2016 10:53:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 10:16:18 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:53:46 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

And really this points out the fallacy of so called white privilege, if anything it's wealth privilege, just look at some high profile court cases, if you have the money you can get away with murder, if the glove doesn't fit.......If you are successful in a mostly white area let's say 90%, are you successful because of your privilege, what privilege do you have over someone you don't compete or come into contact with?
What kind of scenario can be given for 2 family's on welfare that shows privilege? Privilege is different than an individual showing a preference btw.
White privilege is not a fallacy, and it's because the cultural conditioning of mainstream society has poor white people exactly where it wants them, so they aren't the targets of authorities, (governmental or individuals with power: store owners etc) like people with brown skin who authoritative types assume to be from a more corrupt culture.

The privileges poor whites have over poor blacks, is that people in authority aren't looking for a reason to charge them with wrongdoing off the bat. They are innocent until proven guilty. Non-white people are often assumed guilty unless they can prove their innocence. Culturally poor white people are taught to make nice with authorities and tell them what they want to hear. Some black individuals are raised to be expressive and truly believe in the rights the constitution grants them but isn't administered toward them, so they argue with authorities thinking their constitutional rights actually mean something. Poor whites have been conditioned to pay lip service to those who are upper echelon or in positions of authority, so the are cut slack for making the oppressors feel more important.

So what you're saying is that poor whites are not generally targeted by the oppressive system because they are more submissive to it, whereas blacks lash out against it more, so they're targeted more.
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Emmarie
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9/19/2016 11:13:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 10:53:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/19/2016 10:16:18 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:53:46 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

And really this points out the fallacy of so called white privilege, if anything it's wealth privilege, just look at some high profile court cases, if you have the money you can get away with murder, if the glove doesn't fit.......If you are successful in a mostly white area let's say 90%, are you successful because of your privilege, what privilege do you have over someone you don't compete or come into contact with?
What kind of scenario can be given for 2 family's on welfare that shows privilege? Privilege is different than an individual showing a preference btw.
White privilege is not a fallacy, and it's because the cultural conditioning of mainstream society has poor white people exactly where it wants them, so they aren't the targets of authorities, (governmental or individuals with power: store owners etc) like people with brown skin who authoritative types assume to be from a more corrupt culture.

The privileges poor whites have over poor blacks, is that people in authority aren't looking for a reason to charge them with wrongdoing off the bat. They are innocent until proven guilty. Non-white people are often assumed guilty unless they can prove their innocence. Culturally poor white people are taught to make nice with authorities and tell them what they want to hear. Some black individuals are raised to be expressive and truly believe in the rights the constitution grants them but isn't administered toward them, so they argue with authorities thinking their constitutional rights actually mean something. Poor whites have been conditioned to pay lip service to those who are upper echelon or in positions of authority, so the are cut slack for making the oppressors feel more important.

So what you're saying is that poor whites are not generally targeted by the oppressive system because they are more submissive to it, whereas blacks lash out against it more, so they're targeted more.

I know I already responded to this, but I just wanted to clarify, after giving it some more thought. It's not so much that black americans lash out for the sake of being rebellious, it's that they are allowed more freedom to express themselves in home and community settings, and and the system itself views their expressiveness as lashing out.
Hiu
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9/20/2016 1:18:12 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

You said:

"most whites are just trying to live their lives. "

Question: Why are so many whites committing violent crimes?
Hiu
Posts: 1,015
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9/20/2016 1:22:03 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I've already discussed the motivation about BLM at length. The problem here on a website that is populated with a predominantly white demographic is, you do not want to hear the perspective from a person of color. If it doesn't fit your narrative or what you see, or if it challenges your "white sensitivities" you do not accept it. We cannot have a dialogue if you are unwilling to hear the perspective from another person. I mean, look at the title of your thread? How can whites who think like you come to the table for discussion if you want to focus on racism?

Again, if you see BLM's entire movement you'll see a diverse range of people who are allies for people of color regarding policing. You see, all you want to see are the miscreants among protesters, but you are unwilling to listen to why the people are protesting.
Hiu
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9/20/2016 1:23:55 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
BTW white privilege is not your economical status, it encompasses an intersectionality of unearned privileges.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/20/2016 1:31:04 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:18:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

You said:

"most whites are just trying to live their lives. "

Question: Why are so many whites committing violent crimes?
Come on, join the conversation instead of trying to incite anger/annoyance of someone who is just expressing his perspective. Are you a racist? Maybe you have a valid point which you haven't specified about whites committing violent crimes, but the way you responded I have no idea what it is.
Hiu
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9/20/2016 1:33:50 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:31:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:18:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

You said:

"most whites are just trying to live their lives. "

Question: Why are so many whites committing violent crimes?
Come on, join the conversation instead of trying to incite anger/annoyance of someone who is just expressing his perspective. Are you a racist? Maybe you have a valid point which you haven't specified about whites committing violent crimes, but the way you responded I have no idea what it is.

I guess you conveniently overlooked other comments this person has made that was outright a language of white nationalism in another thread. Again, like I've told you in a PM long ago I think you're naive. Am I racist no. But where is your opinion when we discuss BLM and people are bringing up black on black crime and me trying to explain that position? You need to be equal in your attitude.
Hiu
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9/20/2016 1:35:00 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

I wonder if poor whites are oppressed worldwide.....Whites and eurocentrism is the face of beauty while having dark skin is seen as ugly.....
Emmarie
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9/20/2016 1:59:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:33:50 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:31:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:18:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

You said:

"most whites are just trying to live their lives. "

Question: Why are so many whites committing violent crimes?
Come on, join the conversation instead of trying to incite anger/annoyance of someone who is just expressing his perspective. Are you a racist? Maybe you have a valid point which you haven't specified about whites committing violent crimes, but the way you responded I have no idea what it is.

I guess you conveniently overlooked other comments this person has made that was outright a language of white nationalism in another thread. Again, like I've told you in a PM long ago I think you're naive. Am I racist no. But where is your opinion when we discuss BLM and people are bringing up black on black crime and me trying to explain that position? You need to be equal in your attitude.
I don't read every post of every member. I barely know Vox Veritas. What I liked about the post was that he expressed how it made him feel to be automatically thought of as a racist, for liking that he is white, or to be thought of as privileged when he has struggled too. I like that he offered an explanation.

There are disadvantaged white people who don't recognize their white privilege, because they have had to cow-tow to people in positions of power to barely live about the poverty level and fail to see how black americans are any less privileged because they don't pick at each other for being poor the way white people do. He didn't say that, but from my own observation in a white rural community it's what I see, after living in a predominantly black neighborhood for 34 years of my life.

Because I grew up with social cultural standards of black americans, I learned to try and see the good in others since my neighbors accepted my misfit mixed family. I also learned to question the "system" and when I moved to a predominately white rural community that my mom is originally from, I realized that poor whites are as oppressed from opportunity for advancement as anyone from back home was, but survive by the skin of their teeth by paying lip service to those in power, while looking to feel superior to someone, even though they aren't. But in my opinion they are equal and misunderstood!

Black Americans share a heritage and a culture, and that is a privilege in itself, but poor whites are put down from those whom they share a heritage with and blamed for being poor. What baffles me is why some of them think that whites are superior, when white people oppress them too. I just wanna see poor people converse and realize they both are victims of an oppressive system that profits from hatred.
Emmarie
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9/20/2016 2:01:00 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:35:00 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

I wonder if poor whites are oppressed worldwide.....Whites and eurocentrism is the face of beauty while having dark skin is seen as ugly.....

You must be trippin. Vacations to tropical regions, basking on beaches, and the tanning industry (spray on and tanning beds) tells me different.
Vox_Veritas
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9/20/2016 4:07:23 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:22:03 AM, Hiu wrote:
I've already discussed the motivation about BLM at length. The problem here on a website that is populated with a predominantly white demographic is, you do not want to hear the perspective from a person of color. If it doesn't fit your narrative or what you see, or if it challenges your "white sensitivities" you do not accept it. We cannot have a dialogue if you are unwilling to hear the perspective from another person. I mean, look at the title of your thread? How can whites who think like you come to the table for discussion if you want to focus on racism?

Again, if you see BLM's entire movement you'll see a diverse range of people who are allies for people of color regarding policing. You see, all you want to see are the miscreants among protesters, but you are unwilling to listen to why the people are protesting.

Everyone knows what Black Lives Matter is about. It's the narrative that cops unfairly target blacks in term of choosing who to pull over, frequency of violent confrontations ending with the cop pulling out his gun and firing on the suspect, etc. It's the notion that lawmakers intentionally designed our legal system so that blacks get arrested more frequently in an effort to disenfranchise them from voting. There are few people in America who haven't heard this narrative.
The newsmedia champions the cause of BLM. Most celebrities (actors, singers, athletes, high-profile CEOs, etc) either champion the cause the cause of BLM or haven't mentioned it. Few celebrities have spoken out against it, and if they do then some journalist hack will write some negative article about that person. The elites have done their best to propagate the narrative; it'd be absurd to suggest that the average American doesn't know what BLM is about.

But BLM also ignores a lot of the facts.
First, this doesn't constitute a "serious" problem by any means. While the number of blacks killed by cops is disproportionately high, whites still constitute the majority of those killed. And in the year 2015 a grand total of 986 people were shot and killed by police, according to the Washington Post. The number of people who die yearly as a result of being tasered by the police or manhandled a bit too roughly by a police officer is probably rather small. There's somewhat over 320,000,000 people in the United States, and of those approximately 42,000,000 were black. If we were going to make the (ridiculous) assumption that 100% of all of these shooting victims were black, that'd mean that in any given year the average black american has a one out of 42,000 chance of being shot by a police officer. In comparison, 32,000 Americans die yearly from vehicular accidents. Blacks comprised 1/8th of the population, so we'll assume that 4,000 black americans die yearly from car accidents. This means they are 4x more likely to die in a car crash than to be shot by a cop (again, this is assuming falsely that 100% of people shot and killed by the police are black). 150,000 Americans died from lung cancer in 2012. Again, this means that something like 18,750 blacks die from cancer yearly, meaning they are 18.75x more likely to die from lung cancer than at the hands of a cop. I could go on, but you get the point.
Secondly, probably 95% of the disparity can be explained by stuff other than "hurr durr racist cops". We aren't talking about how blacks are more likely to be uncooperative in encounters with the police than their white counterparts (which would make cops more likely to believe that the suspect, whatever his race may be, is up to no good and a threat to their lives). We aren't talking about how 53.4% of killers in the year 2010 whose race is known are black, despite the fact that they comprise 12.6% of the population in that year. This would make it appear that blacks are over 4x more likely to commit murder than a typical group their size would be. 44.6% of known killers were white in this year (2010), despite the fact that (non-hispanic) whites comprise 63.7% of the US population. For simplicity's sake we'll round these two numbers to 45% and 64%, respectively. There are roughly 5 times as many (non-hispanic) whites as there are blacks. Given this, if 50% of murderers were black and 50% of murderers were white, then one would be 5x more likely to be murdered by a black person. Since over 50% of murderers were black and less than 50% of murderers were white, then the natural conclusion is that when encountering some random dude in some shady place, he is more than 5x likely to murder you if he is black.
(Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov...)
This constitutes a significant figure. Most people haven't really done the math, but they understand that a black person is statistically far more likely to commit murder than a white person. To completely ignore this statistic is to put oneself at some noticeably higher degree of risk of death (one might as well not lock the door to their home if they're just going to completely ignore this risk). Police officers presumably take these statistics into consideration as well. If a suspect puts his hand somewhere that the cop can't see it, the cop is naturally more likely to conclude that the culprit is reaching for a gun if the culprit is black (though in this situation he'd probably shoot even if the suspect was white). Cops take these same kind of statistical considerations into account when dealing with male suspects over female suspects, and yet nobody complains about that.
Now, is it fair to blacks who have never done anything wrong that they'll be treated with a much higher level of suspicion in any confrontation just because of their race? Of course not. I can understand how people would be unhappy about that. But you can't just demand that somebody ignore the much higher statistical probability of serious injury or death. It sucks, but the only decent solution is for black crime rates to be drastically reduced, not to tell cops to show no regard for their own lives (which they will usually put above the life of a suspect of any race).

All of the above wasn't the point I was trying to make with the OP, though. My point is that whites are, like blacks, tired of being treated like the bad guys, and the white privilege narrative paints whites as the bad guys. I was telling the white perspective, the same way that the BLM people and the media elites have told the black perspective.
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Hiu
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9/20/2016 5:51:44 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:59:11 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:33:50 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:31:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:18:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

You said:

"most whites are just trying to live their lives. "

Question: Why are so many whites committing violent crimes?
Come on, join the conversation instead of trying to incite anger/annoyance of someone who is just expressing his perspective. Are you a racist? Maybe you have a valid point which you haven't specified about whites committing violent crimes, but the way you responded I have no idea what it is.

I guess you conveniently overlooked other comments this person has made that was outright a language of white nationalism in another thread. Again, like I've told you in a PM long ago I think you're naive. Am I racist no. But where is your opinion when we discuss BLM and people are bringing up black on black crime and me trying to explain that position? You need to be equal in your attitude.
I don't read every post of every member. I barely know Vox Veritas. What I liked about the post was that he expressed how it made him feel to be automatically thought of as a racist, for liking that he is white, or to be thought of as privileged when he has struggled too. I like that he offered an explanation.

There are disadvantaged white people who don't recognize their white privilege, because they have had to cow-tow to people in positions of power to barely live about the poverty level and fail to see how black americans are any less privileged because they don't pick at each other for being poor the way white people do. He didn't say that, but from my own observation in a white rural community it's what I see, after living in a predominantly black neighborhood for 34 years of my life.

Because I grew up with social cultural standards of black americans, I learned to try and see the good in others since my neighbors accepted my misfit mixed family. I also learned to question the "system" and when I moved to a predominately white rural community that my mom is originally from, I realized that poor whites are as oppressed from opportunity for advancement as anyone from back home was, but survive by the skin of their teeth by paying lip service to those in power, while looking to feel superior to someone, even though they aren't. But in my opinion they are equal and misunderstood!

Black Americans share a heritage and a culture, and that is a privilege in itself, but poor whites are put down from those whom they share a heritage with and blamed for being poor. What baffles me is why some of them think that whites are superior, when white people oppress them too. I just wanna see poor people converse and realize they both are victims of an oppressive system that profits from hatred.

Just to help you out, another member said in another thread regarding standing up for the flag in the following:

" At 9/12/2016 4:33:03 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/12/2016 4:25:45 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/9/2016 7:24:45 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
He should have the freedom to not stand for the national anthem without legal repercussions, but at the same time he should've been kicked off of whatever team he plays for.
Then you are punishing him for expressing his RIGHT which is utterly contradictory of U.S. principles.
Well, how do I put this. Vox Veritas is a part of that old Southern tradition according to which white people have rights that somehow become offensive once expressed by nonwhites.

Now, to respond to your statement, yes there are poor whites and yes like poor blacks and poor asians etc they suffer the same ills due to capitalism. Again, I never denied that there are poor whites who do in fact live in a similar category as poor blacks when it comes to being in a low socio-economic status. However, when we are discussing white privilege again, we are not talking about privilege in the context of whites being born into money or being born into a social economic status, we are talking about unearned privileges of being white such as societal stereotypes, aesthetics, how the world globally perceives whites versus other persons of color.
Hiu
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9/20/2016 5:57:50 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 2:01:00 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:35:00 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:18:51 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/19/2016 3:42:30 AM, Smithereens wrote:
I think you're confusing cause and effect a little. The BLM movement is a reactionary movement, not a proactive one. Oppressive actions by white people came first, BLM movement rose up in response to it.

The fact that poorer white people are more likely than richer whites to oppose this movement is less to do with poor white people being victims and more to do with the fact that poorer white people have always been the most racist of any subgroup of 'whites.' Long before BLM poor whites were the racist creme de la creme who ended up triggering this reaction in the first place.

it makes sense that poor whites are the most opposed to it considering that these people are the most racist whites in the first place.

Maybe it is because poor whites are oppressed too, and would like to be included in the plight against the oppressors, but many blacks assume because they are white that they have it easier. Also they are in competition with each other for shitty jobs, and affordable housing, and in many black communities, they are emotionally supportive of one another even if some are more well off, but rich white people treat poor white people like trash. I've been immersed in both cultures and this is what I have witnessed. It is my dream to see the two communities that I love realize that they are on the same side!

I wonder if poor whites are oppressed worldwide.....Whites and eurocentrism is the face of beauty while having dark skin is seen as ugly.....

You must be trippin. Vacations to tropical regions, basking on beaches, and the tanning industry (spray on and tanning beds) tells me different.

Again you're naive. I know what is said about "people like me in other regions in the world."
Hiu
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9/20/2016 5:59:15 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 1:59:11 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:33:50 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:31:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/20/2016 1:18:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/17/2016 8:46:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why do white Americans hate BLM? Why do they hate academics and "Social Justice Warriors" who talk about white privilege and microaggressions?
It is simple: most whites are just trying to live their lives. If through natural circumstances the typical black household's level of wealth caught up to the national average, most whites would be fine with that. Few people would choose to bring back segregation if given the option. They don't see themselves as racist, which implies that you make a conscious effort to oppress people of another race, or that you mistreat people of other races. Whenever people accuse them of "white privilege", this dismisses any personal, social, and financial struggle that they may have faced or currently face in life and gives the impression that they're living a luxurious, unearned, carefree life at someone else's expense. It amounts to an accusation of total moral bankruptcy, and to expect white people not to take offense at this is like expecting that you jump and not fall back down to earth (assuming that you aren't jumping onto some kind of platform or in other space, of course).
The narrative of white privilege and white microaggressions against non-whites is, at least how many whites hear it, the narrative that all non-whites are being oppressed by the white man, and that people of all races need to unite and wage war (be that figurative or literal) against the white man.

Most people who take offense at the white privilege narrative are poor or working-class whites who live in the South or in the Appalachian region. That is, those people who are most likely to vote Republican. Their level of wealth is generally lower than the national average (many of them are dependent on government assistance programs to get by), and yet they're accused of being privileged by the standards of this country.
Whenever Americans look at the South as it existed in the 1860s or the 1960s, they are taught to see oppressed blacks (which was obviously true) on one hand and a bunch of evil white people on the other. By talking about white privilege and microaggressions and what not, modern whites (especially those in the South) feel accused of being horrible people, just like their ancestors are accused of being, and that they are acting like their ancestors did, which they were taught to see as evil. Also, they feel like everyone is allowed to feel proud of their ancestors except for them.

Whenever the white privilege card is played, it says "Shut up, nothing you say matters because you are privileged and guilty of oppressing non-whites with every breath you take."
The natural human response is to reject the burden of guilt which was put on them just because of their skin colour. That's what whites are doing now.
If society expects them to be ashamed of their whiteness, then that makes them all the more proud to be white. They will continue to defy the self-righteous academics, social activists, and politicians, no matter how much these people continue to rebuke, insult, and attempt to shame them.
/End Rant

(Disclaimer: I will ignore all posts made here by NHN.)

You said:

"most whites are just trying to live their lives. "

Question: Why are so many whites committing violent crimes?
Come on, join the conversation instead of trying to incite anger/annoyance of someone who is just expressing his perspective. Are you a racist? Maybe you have a valid point which you haven't specified about whites committing violent crimes, but the way you responded I have no idea what it is.

I guess you conveniently overlooked other comments this person has made that was outright a language of white nationalism in another thread. Again, like I've told you in a PM long ago I think you're naive. Am I racist no. But where is your opinion when we discuss BLM and people are bringing up black on black crime and me trying to explain that position? You need to be equal in your attitude.
I don't read every post of every member. I barely know Vox Veritas. What I liked about the post was that he expressed how it made him feel to be automatically thought of as a racist, for liking that he is white, or to be thought of as privileged when he has struggled too. I like that he offered an explanation.

There are disadvantaged white people who don't recognize their white privilege, because they have had to cow-tow to people in positions of power to barely live about the poverty level and fail to see how black americans are any less privileged because they don't pick at each other for being poor the way white people do. He didn't say that, but from my own observation in a white rural community it's what I see, after living in a predominantly black neighborhood for 34 years of my life.

Because I grew up with social cultural standards of black americans, I learned to try and see the good in others since my neighbors accepted my misfit mixed family. I also learned to question the "system" and when I moved to a predominately white rural community that my mom is originally from, I realized that poor whites are as oppressed from opportunity for advancement as anyone from back home was, but survive by the skin of their teeth by paying lip service to those in power, while looking to feel superior to someone, even though they aren't. But in my opinion they are equal and misunderstood!

Black Americans share a heritage and a culture, and that is a privilege in itself, but poor whites are put down from those whom they share a heritage with and blamed for being poor. What baffles me is why some of them think that whites are superior, when white people oppress them too. I just wanna see poor people converse and realize they both are victims of an oppressive system that profits from hatred.

Just to help you out, another member said in another thread regarding standing up for the flag in the following:

" At 9/12/2016 4:33:03 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/12/2016 4:25:45 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/9/2016 7:24:45 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
He should have the freedom to not stand for the national anthem without legal repercussions, but at the same time he should've been kicked off of whatever team he plays for.
Then you are punishing him for expressing his RIGHT which is utterly contradictory of U.S. principles.
Well, how do I put this. Vox Veritas is a part of that old Southern tradition according to which white people have rights that somehow become offensive once expressed by nonwhites.

Now, to respond to your statement, yes there are poor whites and yes like poor blacks and poor asians etc they suffer the same ills due to capitalism. Again, I never denied that there are poor whites who do in fact live in a similar category as poor blacks when it comes to being in a low socio-economic status. However, when we are discussing white privilege again, we are not talking about privilege in the context of whites being born into money or being born into a social economic status, we are talking about unearned privileges of being white such as societal stereotypes, aesthetics, how the world globally perceives whites versus other persons of color.
Greyparrot
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9/20/2016 6:23:43 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 5:59:15 AM, Hiu wrote:

Now, to respond to your statement, yes there are poor whites and yes like poor blacks and poor asians etc they suffer the same ills due to capitalism. Again, I never denied that there are poor whites who do in fact live in a similar category as poor blacks when it comes to being in a low socio-economic status. However, when we are discussing white privilege again, we are not talking about privilege in the context of whites being born into money or being born into a social economic status, we are talking about unearned privileges of being white such as societal stereotypes, aesthetics, how the world globally perceives whites versus other persons of color.

If only those damn white crackers could develop 3rd world nations like all the other races...
Hiu
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9/20/2016 6:39:16 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 6:23:43 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/20/2016 5:59:15 AM, Hiu wrote:

Now, to respond to your statement, yes there are poor whites and yes like poor blacks and poor asians etc they suffer the same ills due to capitalism. Again, I never denied that there are poor whites who do in fact live in a similar category as poor blacks when it comes to being in a low socio-economic status. However, when we are discussing white privilege again, we are not talking about privilege in the context of whites being born into money or being born into a social economic status, we are talking about unearned privileges of being white such as societal stereotypes, aesthetics, how the world globally perceives whites versus other persons of color.

If only those damn white crackers could develop 3rd world nations like all the other races...

Why do you choose to respond to me
Greyparrot
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9/20/2016 6:59:41 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/20/2016 6:39:16 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/20/2016 6:23:43 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/20/2016 5:59:15 AM, Hiu wrote:

Now, to respond to your statement, yes there are poor whites and yes like poor blacks and poor asians etc they suffer the same ills due to capitalism. Again, I never denied that there are poor whites who do in fact live in a similar category as poor blacks when it comes to being in a low socio-economic status. However, when we are discussing white privilege again, we are not talking about privilege in the context of whites being born into money or being born into a social economic status, we are talking about unearned privileges of being white such as societal stereotypes, aesthetics, how the world globally perceives whites versus other persons of color.

If only those damn white crackers could develop 3rd world nations like all the other races...

Why do you choose to respond to me

Im responding to your comment. Don't be such a narcissist.