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Hiu
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9/21/2016 12:32:46 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
In my years of typing and engaging in various discussions over the internet it never ceases to amaze me that when discussing racism or things dealing with race on the internet, you either are among those of one extreme or another. I have never been on a discussion forum outside my university for school work, where there has been a high level of intellectual discussion regarding race relations. Personally I do not think an actual intellectual dialogue can commence on an internet forum especially when one demographic is outnumbering others because more often than not, use their anonymity to expose their own racial biases. I will admit, I"ve never been on an internet forum frequented by majority whites and have had an intellectual discussion regarding race without it being a shouting match via typing. Likewise the same with an all black website (and I"ve been on a few) due to the hostility some blacks have towards people of other cultures and the delirious ideas that are promoted on those types of sites.

Of course my cultural bias along with 25 plus years of experiences has led me with the opinion and this is my opinion, that at least on the internet, there is a large portion of whites in the U.S. (elsewhere too) that have a racist mentality that really do not belong discussing race. But the problem is not necessarily people that discuss racism it is the people of that same demographic that are silent. Some think that taking the Morgan Freeman route is actually going to solve the problem of racism. We need to except the fact we have different ethnic cultures, however we need to accept the reality that racism exist and that it"s a problem. When you see a person making an inflammatory comment, I think it"s best if the collective can chastise that one person and isolate them, the less likely that person will continue.

In addition having some sort of semi-intellectual dialogue about what issues we face in today"s society regarding racism I think we need an environment that fosters moderation and respect. Far too many people get away with making reckless stereotypes without research except armchair 50 second google research warriors which only leads to back and forth bickering. Where racists thrive on the internet are websites that lack regulation where people are free to make inflammatory claims without regulation. That is the problem which makes discussing race pointless because its not necessarily a conversation but an environment to make pejorative remarks without impunity. As I recall in graduate school, I"ve had several discussions regarding race and intersectionality, it was always a respectful dialogue, but then again it is graduate school.

But I will say this, even when I"ve engaged in discussions regarding race relations it was never balanced. If the online forum is frequented by one predominant demographic its always more than one that will chime in with the similar inflammatory attitude. Or, I"ll have the other spectrum, so it seems discussing race relations is never balanced online, but in my experience it has always tipped in the favor of whites. No offense to any well meaning whites, but doing a simple research it seems that there is a large section of whites in society that is really concerned about race (in conjunction to white nationalism) Stormfront, Chimpout, etc seem to be websites that are really intolerant and I find these members of these particular websites tend to branch out to websites like DDO, and others. If moderation is an undesirable when it comes to sensitive topics it makes me think why even discuss them at all?
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/21/2016 1:58:20 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:32:46 AM, Hiu wrote:
In my years of typing and engaging in various discussions over the internet it never ceases to amaze me that when discussing racism or things dealing with race on the internet, you either are among those of one extreme or another. I have never been on a discussion forum outside my university for school work, where there has been a high level of intellectual discussion regarding race relations. Personally I do not think an actual intellectual dialogue can commence on an internet forum especially when one demographic is outnumbering others because more often than not, use their anonymity to expose their own racial biases. I will admit, I"ve never been on an internet forum frequented by majority whites and have had an intellectual discussion regarding race without it being a shouting match via typing. Likewise the same with an all black website (and I"ve been on a few) due to the hostility some blacks have towards people of other cultures and the delirious ideas that are promoted on those types of sites.

Of course my cultural bias along with 25 plus years of experiences has led me with the opinion and this is my opinion, that at least on the internet, there is a large portion of whites in the U.S. (elsewhere too) that have a racist mentality that really do not belong discussing race. But the problem is not necessarily people that discuss racism it is the people of that same demographic that are silent.
These statements contradict each other. First you said they "there is a large portion of whites that do not belong discussing race." The very next sentence you state that the problem isn't those who discuss racism but those who are silent. Make up your mind.

Some think that taking the Morgan Freeman route is actually going to solve the problem of racism. We need to except the fact we have different ethnic cultures, however we need to accept the reality that racism exist and that it"s a problem. When you see a person making an inflammatory comment, I think it"s best if the collective can chastise that one person and isolate them, the less likely that person will continue.
So do you want to silence people who have opinions that you disagree with or who express experiences that you don't care to hear about? Is that what you are advocating using the "collective" to accomplish? There is no collective, there are individuals. Group mentality is what perpetuates racism.

You stated it would be productive to, "chastise that one person and isolate them." Sounds like rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's, Rules for Radicals. "* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)" http://www.bestofbeck.com...

In addition having some sort of semi-intellectual dialogue about what issues we face in today"s society regarding racism I think we need an environment that fosters moderation and respect. Far too many people get away with making reckless stereotypes without research except armchair 50 second google research warriors which only leads to back and forth bickering. Where racists thrive on the internet are websites that lack regulation where people are free to make inflammatory claims without regulation. That is the problem which makes discussing race pointless because its not necessarily a conversation but an environment to make pejorative remarks without impunity. As I recall in graduate school, I"ve had several discussions regarding race and intersectionality, it was always a respectful dialogue, but then again it is graduate school.

But I will say this, even when I"ve engaged in discussions regarding race relations it was never balanced. If the online forum is frequented by one predominant demographic its always more than one that will chime in with the similar inflammatory attitude. Or, I"ll have the other spectrum, so it seems discussing race relations is never balanced online, but in my experience it has always tipped in the favor of whites. No offense to any well meaning whites, but doing a simple research it seems that there is a large section of whites in society that is really concerned about race (in conjunction to white nationalism) Stormfront, Chimpout, etc seem to be websites that are really intolerant and I find these members of these particular websites tend to branch out to websites like DDO, and others. If moderation is an undesirable when it comes to sensitive topics it makes me think why even discuss them at all?

All I got from your rant was that you don't want to have a conversation with people about race, you want to give your perspective and have it accepted.
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/21/2016 11:50:27 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:32:46 AM, Hiu wrote:
Personally I do not think an actual intellectual dialogue can commence on an internet forum especially when one demographic is outnumbering others because more often than not, use their anonymity to expose their own racial biases.
I agree. And I would add another difficulty of online discussions: the intellectual incapacity of the large number, who flock to online forums solely for the sake of entertainment value. And any forum with an overrepresenation of a particular ethnicity will immediately turn into a free-for-all where the lowest instincts are encouraged. The only thing to stop it is moderation. But where there is no moderation, the arbitrariness of the lowest instincts is the rule.

As far as intellectual discussions are concerned, they can only be undertaken face-to-face or via letter between learned interlocutors.

If moderation is an undesirable when it comes to sensitive topics it makes me think why even discuss them at all?
Sites such as these survive by ads to pay the domain host; by "click bait," as it were. Such a setup will necessitate lax moderation and a "high tolerance" of racism and personal attacks. Yet the sponsors censor what can be interpreted as pornography, such as the word a-s-s. Because a-s-s simply generates the wrong kind of online searches. Now try typing racial slurs of any kind and you'll see that they are perfectly fine by DDO standards.

But none of that is considered incendiary to the sponsors; to them, the overriding principle is that of business.
keithprosser
Posts: 1,933
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9/21/2016 2:11:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Online forums and YouTube comments generally present a dismal impression of humanity. Apart from killing time, i don't find forums all that great. Unfortunately I have too much time on my hands at this time!
Of course there are bright people on the forums, but they are dominated by people with too much time, too little money and too little brains... Normal people have better things to do.
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/21/2016 6:53:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 1:58:20 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/21/2016 12:32:46 AM, Hiu wrote:
In my years of typing and engaging in various discussions over the internet it never ceases to amaze me that when discussing racism or things dealing with race on the internet, you either are among those of one extreme or another. I have never been on a discussion forum outside my university for school work, where there has been a high level of intellectual discussion regarding race relations. Personally I do not think an actual intellectual dialogue can commence on an internet forum especially when one demographic is outnumbering others because more often than not, use their anonymity to expose their own racial biases. I will admit, I"ve never been on an internet forum frequented by majority whites and have had an intellectual discussion regarding race without it being a shouting match via typing. Likewise the same with an all black website (and I"ve been on a few) due to the hostility some blacks have towards people of other cultures and the delirious ideas that are promoted on those types of sites.

Of course my cultural bias along with 25 plus years of experiences has led me with the opinion and this is my opinion, that at least on the internet, there is a large portion of whites in the U.S. (elsewhere too) that have a racist mentality that really do not belong discussing race. But the problem is not necessarily people that discuss racism it is the people of that same demographic that are silent.
These statements contradict each other. First you said they "there is a large portion of whites that do not belong discussing race." The very next sentence you state that the problem isn't those who discuss racism but those who are silent. Make up your mind.

Some think that taking the Morgan Freeman route is actually going to solve the problem of racism. We need to except the fact we have different ethnic cultures, however we need to accept the reality that racism exist and that it"s a problem. When you see a person making an inflammatory comment, I think it"s best if the collective can chastise that one person and isolate them, the less likely that person will continue.
So do you want to silence people who have opinions that you disagree with or who express experiences that you don't care to hear about? Is that what you are advocating using the "collective" to accomplish? There is no collective, there are individuals. Group mentality is what perpetuates racism.

You stated it would be productive to, "chastise that one person and isolate them." Sounds like rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's, Rules for Radicals. "* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)" http://www.bestofbeck.com...

In addition having some sort of semi-intellectual dialogue about what issues we face in today"s society regarding racism I think we need an environment that fosters moderation and respect. Far too many people get away with making reckless stereotypes without research except armchair 50 second google research warriors which only leads to back and forth bickering. Where racists thrive on the internet are websites that lack regulation where people are free to make inflammatory claims without regulation. That is the problem which makes discussing race pointless because its not necessarily a conversation but an environment to make pejorative remarks without impunity. As I recall in graduate school, I"ve had several discussions regarding race and intersectionality, it was always a respectful dialogue, but then again it is graduate school.

But I will say this, even when I"ve engaged in discussions regarding race relations it was never balanced. If the online forum is frequented by one predominant demographic its always more than one that will chime in with the similar inflammatory attitude. Or, I"ll have the other spectrum, so it seems discussing race relations is never balanced online, but in my experience it has always tipped in the favor of whites. No offense to any well meaning whites, but doing a simple research it seems that there is a large section of whites in society that is really concerned about race (in conjunction to white nationalism) Stormfront, Chimpout, etc seem to be websites that are really intolerant and I find these members of these particular websites tend to branch out to websites like DDO, and others. If moderation is an undesirable when it comes to sensitive topics it makes me think why even discuss them at all?

All I got from your rant was that you don't want to have a conversation with people about race, you want to give your perspective and have it accepted.

Time to check you again since you are cherry picking....The following is my response to you quote by quote

You said: "These statements contradict each other. First you said they "there is a large portion of whites that do not belong discussing race." The very next sentence you state that the problem isn't those who discuss racism but those who are silent. Make up your mind."

In that paragraph I'm referring to people with a racist mentality who have these generalizations of an ethnic group who go online to spew hatred. they make threads just to demonize an entire demographic. I also added that the problem isn't with those who are racist but those who are silent. The issue with you is your misunderstanding. You see, a racist person can be seen a mile away. It is apparent based on what they write because most level headed people know what they say is wrong. In my years of dialogue on the internet especially on websites frequented by mostly whites, the issue I personally have is not the racist who is the obvious crook of the bunch, but those who read it and remain silent. To me, knowing someone that does wrong regardless whether they're trolling or not and reading it and choosing to remain nothing is as bad as if it is happening in the real world. My post relates to the following quote:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

-Edmund Burke

You said: "So do you want to silence people who have opinions that you disagree with or who express experiences that you don't care to hear about? Is that what you are advocating using the "collective" to accomplish? There is no collective, there are individuals. Group mentality is what perpetuates racism."

How am I wanting to silence anyone? My comment was suggestive, not authoritarian stop reading with emotions and read with some damn sense. My point is that when people spew racism it goes from a potential discussion to an illogical rant. There is no intellectual stimulation if we are categorizing everyone based on racial biases and other claims. Of course there should be discussion but how can I dialogue with someone that has already sentenced me? I've been in far too many online discussions where there is really no discussion all there is, is "all blacks are bad and you are to and you cannot tell me nothing because my right-wing news told me so." I cannot dialogue with someone that already have their mind made it and it makes the discussion pointless at that point.

(I will check you in my next post)
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/21/2016 7:04:23 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
This post is for @ Emmarie

(In continuing my post)

You said: "You stated it would be productive to, "chastise that one person and isolate them." Sounds like rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's, Rules for Radicals. "* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)" http://www.bestofbeck.com...;

Look, racism is wrong. It is only wrong scientifically, but socially it is poisonous and people need to understand that it is more cancerous than anything because it is divisive. When people spew racism online it goes from an opinion to hatred point blank period and as I've said in the previous post the discussion falls short because it lacks intellectual stimulation because there is no intellectual dialogue. I used the collective because I am reminded of the African Proverb of "it takes a village to raise a child." If enough people can redirect the attitude the person who has the cancerous mentality of racism may lack the energy to continue since he or she may not find any allies in their mentality THAT IS MY POINT.

I used the wrong word such as chastise I probably should've used another word but my point is if enough people speak out against something that is obviously illogical and is not stimulating dialogue the person will eventually give up because he or she may not find any allies in the discussion which is obviously hateful.

You said: "All I got from your rant was that you don't want to have a conversation with people about race, you want to give your perspective and have it accepted."

All I got from your responses is that you do not read with a sense of gathering a perspective you've already categorized me in your mind already especially in the other thread so therefore whatever I write, you're going to assume based on what you THINK you know. I'm not trying to silence anything but what I said is in online discussions where one is free to say racist vitriol it becomes a pointless discussion because there is no dialogue.

I noticed DDO personal category section. The problem with discussing a personal rant especially in regards to race is the one wanting to rant is not going to select "Personal" because there aren't enough responses in that section that will draw attention. That is why people put their so-called rants in Society section because it is frequented by members and it will draw attention. At the end of the day what is the point in discussing race relations if a lot of members already have sentenced whoever they're targeting?

I can easily make a post about white people this and white people that and what will I accomplish? Nothing. My intent is not to converse, my intent is to make fallacious claims about a whole bunch of people I've never met but I'm making the claim because I watch news media or because I have had bad experiences. Ultimately these discussions are futile......See how this works? Now, do you understand now that I've made two whole post detailing an explanation?
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/21/2016 7:17:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 11:50:27 AM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 12:32:46 AM, Hiu wrote:
Personally I do not think an actual intellectual dialogue can commence on an internet forum especially when one demographic is outnumbering others because more often than not, use their anonymity to expose their own racial biases.
I agree. And I would add another difficulty of online discussions: the intellectual incapacity of the large number, who flock to online forums solely for the sake of entertainment value. And any forum with an overrepresenation of a particular ethnicity will immediately turn into a free-for-all where the lowest instincts are encouraged. The only thing to stop it is moderation. But where there is no moderation, the arbitrariness of the lowest instincts is the rule.

As far as intellectual discussions are concerned, they can only be undertaken face-to-face or via letter between learned interlocutors.

If moderation is an undesirable when it comes to sensitive topics it makes me think why even discuss them at all?
Sites such as these survive by ads to pay the domain host; by "click bait," as it were. Such a setup will necessitate lax moderation and a "high tolerance" of racism and personal attacks. Yet the sponsors censor what can be interpreted as pornography, such as the word a-s-s. Because a-s-s simply generates the wrong kind of online searches. Now try typing racial slurs of any kind and you'll see that they are perfectly fine by DDO standards.

But none of that is considered incendiary to the sponsors; to them, the overriding principle is that of business.

You said: "I agree. And I would add another difficulty of online discussions: the intellectual incapacity of the large number, who flock to online forums solely for the sake of entertainment value. And any forum with an overrepresenation of a particular ethnicity will immediately turn into a free-for-all where the lowest instincts are encouraged."

Thank you I'm glad someone gets it! I was trying to convey this to Emmarie on this fact! I can go on a black website and the same thing could happen. Same thing on a Latino or Asian website. There is no dialogue on the discussion of race when the balance of power shifts in the favor of one demographic. For example if one goes on blackplanet.com and try discussing race relations as a white person, you will get eaten alive even if you are level headed. Again, there are so many people that have their minds made up it makes discussing race is pointless.

You said: "Sites such as these survive by ads to pay the domain host; by "click bait," as it were. Such a setup will necessitate lax moderation and a "high tolerance" of racism and personal attacks. Yet the sponsors censor what can be interpreted as pornography, such as the word a-s-s. Because a-s-s simply generates the wrong kind of online searches. Now try typing racial slurs of any kind and you'll see that they are perfectly fine by DDO standards."

Ahhhh that makes it all clear now....Thanks for pointing this out.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/24/2016 3:57:38 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:04:23 PM, Hiu wrote:
This post is for @ Emmarie

(In continuing my post)

You said: "You stated it would be productive to, "chastise that one person and isolate them." Sounds like rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's, Rules for Radicals. "* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)" http://www.bestofbeck.com...;

Look, racism is wrong. It is only wrong scientifically, but socially it is poisonous and people need to understand that it is more cancerous than anything because it is divisive. When people spew racism online it goes from an opinion to hatred point blank period and as I've said in the previous post the discussion falls short because it lacks intellectual stimulation because there is no intellectual dialogue. I used the collective because I am reminded of the African Proverb of "it takes a village to raise a child." If enough people can redirect the attitude the person who has the cancerous mentality of racism may lack the energy to continue since he or she may not find any allies in their mentality THAT IS MY POINT.
The key word in that proverb is "RAISE, not isolate," dumbass! And social isolation has never been the African way. The African way is libertarian, where no one attempts to chastise anyone because African Spiritual beliefs place faith in greater forces to communicate with people internally. Chastising one another is European and possible Arab, but traditional Africans don't practice group chastisement of anyone.

I used the wrong word such as chastise I probably should've used another word but my point is if enough people speak out against something that is obviously illogical and is not stimulating dialogue the person will eventually give up because he or she may not find any allies in the discussion which is obviously hateful.

You said: "All I got from your rant was that you don't want to have a conversation with people about race, you want to give your perspective and have it accepted."

All I got from your responses is that you do not read with a sense of gathering a perspective you've already categorized me in your mind already especially in the other thread so therefore whatever I write, you're going to assume based on what you THINK you know. I'm not trying to silence anything but what I said is in online discussions where one is free to say racist vitriol it becomes a pointless discussion because there is no dialogue.

Vox Veritas post was a white guy trying to vent how he feels when he is accused of being a racist. And I applauded him for expressing his own perspective. That's how this conversation began. Then you encouraged me to chastise him for posts he made that I never read, where you accused him of being a white nationalist. Even if he was, I'd rather know the specific reasons of why, rather than automatically assuming that just because he's pro white that he's automatically anti black.

I noticed DDO personal category section. The problem with discussing a personal rant especially in regards to race is the one wanting to rant is not going to select "Personal" because there aren't enough responses in that section that will draw attention. That is why people put their so-called rants in Society section because it is frequented by members and it will draw attention. At the end of the day what is the point in discussing race relations if a lot of members already have sentenced whoever they're targeting?
He wanted reads, so what.

I can easily make a post about white people this and white people that and what will I accomplish? Nothing. My intent is not to converse, my intent is to make fallacious claims about a whole bunch of people I've never met but I'm making the claim because I watch news media or because I have had bad experiences. Ultimately these discussions are futile......See how this works? Now, do you understand now that I've made two whole post detailing an explanation?

As I recall, Vox Veritas was talking more about SJWs which come in every color.

Here's a link to Vox's OP since we have both referenced it in this post.
http://www.debate.org...
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/24/2016 4:38:45 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:57:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:04:23 PM, Hiu wrote:
This post is for @ Emmarie

(In continuing my post)

You said: "You stated it would be productive to, "chastise that one person and isolate them." Sounds like rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's, Rules for Radicals. "* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)" http://www.bestofbeck.com...;

Look, racism is wrong. It is only wrong scientifically, but socially it is poisonous and people need to understand that it is more cancerous than anything because it is divisive. When people spew racism online it goes from an opinion to hatred point blank period and as I've said in the previous post the discussion falls short because it lacks intellectual stimulation because there is no intellectual dialogue. I used the collective because I am reminded of the African Proverb of "it takes a village to raise a child." If enough people can redirect the attitude the person who has the cancerous mentality of racism may lack the energy to continue since he or she may not find any allies in their mentality THAT IS MY POINT.
The key word in that proverb is "RAISE, not isolate," dumbass! And social isolation has never been the African way. The African way is libertarian, where no one attempts to chastise anyone because African Spiritual beliefs place faith in greater forces to communicate with people internally. Chastising one another is European and possible Arab, but traditional Africans don't practice group chastisement of anyone.

I used the wrong word such as chastise I probably should've used another word but my point is if enough people speak out against something that is obviously illogical and is not stimulating dialogue the person will eventually give up because he or she may not find any allies in the discussion which is obviously hateful.

You said: "All I got from your rant was that you don't want to have a conversation with people about race, you want to give your perspective and have it accepted."

All I got from your responses is that you do not read with a sense of gathering a perspective you've already categorized me in your mind already especially in the other thread so therefore whatever I write, you're going to assume based on what you THINK you know. I'm not trying to silence anything but what I said is in online discussions where one is free to say racist vitriol it becomes a pointless discussion because there is no dialogue.

Vox Veritas post was a white guy trying to vent how he feels when he is accused of being a racist. And I applauded him for expressing his own perspective. That's how this conversation began. Then you encouraged me to chastise him for posts he made that I never read, where you accused him of being a white nationalist. Even if he was, I'd rather know the specific reasons of why, rather than automatically assuming that just because he's pro white that he's automatically anti black.

I noticed DDO personal category section. The problem with discussing a personal rant especially in regards to race is the one wanting to rant is not going to select "Personal" because there aren't enough responses in that section that will draw attention. That is why people put their so-called rants in Society section because it is frequented by members and it will draw attention. At the end of the day what is the point in discussing race relations if a lot of members already have sentenced whoever they're targeting?
He wanted reads, so what.

I can easily make a post about white people this and white people that and what will I accomplish? Nothing. My intent is not to converse, my intent is to make fallacious claims about a whole bunch of people I've never met but I'm making the claim because I watch news media or because I have had bad experiences. Ultimately these discussions are futile......See how this works? Now, do you understand now that I've made two whole post detailing an explanation?

As I recall, Vox Veritas was talking more about SJWs which come in every color.

Here's a link to Vox's OP since we have both referenced it in this post.
http://www.debate.org...

You said:

"It isn't his goal to be accepted in "white society," his goal is to be viewed favorable in the community we now reside in, which he is succeeding in."

If I recall, you clearly said in your post you lived in a black community and now live in a white community. That is what I was commenting on.

You said: "People like you need to quit dismissing the experiences of mixed families."

First you claim that I was racist. Then said I was dismissing Vox's "white experience" now I'm dismissing the "mixed experience." Alas I mentioned my mother's parable to me which I shared with you, that no matyter what community you reside in your son will always be considered a "N*gger." That is a fact. Obama is mixed which is what I was sharing.

You said: "Don't compare my son to Obama,"

I merely made the analogy that people of "mixed" ethnic backgrounds are never fully accepted by the majority demographic and that in many sectors of American society people will still view them as "black" and as a "N*gger."

You said: " have a unique perceptive and you grouping me in with other white people because I have compassion for individuals based on how I was taught to treat people,"

No. I clearly told you based on my encounter with you that you are naive. Compassion is great when you are dealing with human beings, but do not let compassion over take your reason when dealing with individuals who lack compassion themselves.

You said: "BY BLACK PEOPLE, MAKES ME THINK YOU ARE A RACIST WHO THINKS THAT NO WHITE PERSON CAN HAVE ANYTHING OF VALUE TO SAY TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE HEALING OF THIS COUNTRY."

I'm starting to think you may be a little off. I told you in another post I am many things but if you are going to accuse me of being racist you need to back your sh*t up. I never claimed nobody white is incapable of compassion. Why is it that you're the only one who does not get it. NHM gets it (I'm not sure of his/her ethnic background) but he got it, but you don't.

You said: "I have much to say, and I won't stop conversing about the subject, just because someone who has more formal education than i do, doesn't like the fact that I won't attempt to censor anyone if they are communicating their OWN FEELINGS AND EXPERIENCES."

SMH

You said: "YOUR WORDS ARE CHOSEN TOO CAREFULLY - YOU DON'T SEEM TO SPEAK FROM THE HEART. YOU SEEM OVERLY REHEARSED. Oh and BTW people don't think I'm white - they don't think I'm black, they often ask me WHAT I am. Bet you never got asked WHAT you are?"

SMH
Hiu
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9/24/2016 6:36:12 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 3:57:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:04:23 PM, Hiu wrote:
This post is for @ Emmarie

(In continuing my post)

You said: "You stated it would be productive to, "chastise that one person and isolate them." Sounds like rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's, Rules for Radicals. "* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)" http://www.bestofbeck.com...;

Look, racism is wrong. It is only wrong scientifically, but socially it is poisonous and people need to understand that it is more cancerous than anything because it is divisive. When people spew racism online it goes from an opinion to hatred point blank period and as I've said in the previous post the discussion falls short because it lacks intellectual stimulation because there is no intellectual dialogue. I used the collective because I am reminded of the African Proverb of "it takes a village to raise a child." If enough people can redirect the attitude the person who has the cancerous mentality of racism may lack the energy to continue since he or she may not find any allies in their mentality THAT IS MY POINT.
The key word in that proverb is "RAISE, not isolate," dumbass! And social isolation has never been the African way. The African way is libertarian, where no one attempts to chastise anyone because African Spiritual beliefs place faith in greater forces to communicate with people internally. Chastising one another is European and possible Arab, but traditional Africans don't practice group chastisement of anyone.

I used the wrong word such as chastise I probably should've used another word but my point is if enough people speak out against something that is obviously illogical and is not stimulating dialogue the person will eventually give up because he or she may not find any allies in the discussion which is obviously hateful.

You said: "All I got from your rant was that you don't want to have a conversation with people about race, you want to give your perspective and have it accepted."

All I got from your responses is that you do not read with a sense of gathering a perspective you've already categorized me in your mind already especially in the other thread so therefore whatever I write, you're going to assume based on what you THINK you know. I'm not trying to silence anything but what I said is in online discussions where one is free to say racist vitriol it becomes a pointless discussion because there is no dialogue.

Vox Veritas post was a white guy trying to vent how he feels when he is accused of being a racist. And I applauded him for expressing his own perspective. That's how this conversation began. Then you encouraged me to chastise him for posts he made that I never read, where you accused him of being a white nationalist. Even if he was, I'd rather know the specific reasons of why, rather than automatically assuming that just because he's pro white that he's automatically anti black.

I noticed DDO personal category section. The problem with discussing a personal rant especially in regards to race is the one wanting to rant is not going to select "Personal" because there aren't enough responses in that section that will draw attention. That is why people put their so-called rants in Society section because it is frequented by members and it will draw attention. At the end of the day what is the point in discussing race relations if a lot of members already have sentenced whoever they're targeting?
He wanted reads, so what.

I can easily make a post about white people this and white people that and what will I accomplish? Nothing. My intent is not to converse, my intent is to make fallacious claims about a whole bunch of people I've never met but I'm making the claim because I watch news media or because I have had bad experiences. Ultimately these discussions are futile......See how this works? Now, do you understand now that I've made two whole post detailing an explanation?

As I recall, Vox Veritas was talking more about SJWs which come in every color.

Here's a link to Vox's OP since we have both referenced it in this post.
http://www.debate.org...

So now you resort to name calling...You are how old?
Hiu
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9/24/2016 6:36:42 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Considering your eduication level emmarie, I wouldn't out it past you to resort to name calling, but then again you are libertarian?
Stymie13
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9/24/2016 1:01:50 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
So no definition on intellectual discourse, just name calling and belittling between a couple of posters. Yawn.

And now we know why there is no 'intellectual discourse' on race.... Because it's completely irrelevant.
Hiu
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9/25/2016 12:34:47 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 1:01:50 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
So no definition on intellectual discourse, just name calling and belittling between a couple of posters. Yawn.

And now we know why there is no 'intellectual discourse' on race.... Because it's completely irrelevant.

True which actually proves my point in this thread
Stymie13
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9/25/2016 12:48:48 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 12:34:47 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/24/2016 1:01:50 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
So no definition on intellectual discourse, just name calling and belittling between a couple of posters. Yawn.

And now we know why there is no 'intellectual discourse' on race.... Because it's completely irrelevant.

True which actually proves my point in this thread

My only real contention with your underlying premise on the 'Majority of snowflakes having racist undertones' is, in my 43 years, amongst some of the most diverse institutions this country has is this: all ethnicities have about the same amount, % wise, of underlying racial apprehension as the next. White, black, brown, and yellow (sons of anarchy did a wonderful job of driving those terms home, lol).
Hiu
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9/25/2016 12:55:45 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 12:48:48 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 12:34:47 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/24/2016 1:01:50 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
So no definition on intellectual discourse, just name calling and belittling between a couple of posters. Yawn.

And now we know why there is no 'intellectual discourse' on race.... Because it's completely irrelevant.

True which actually proves my point in this thread

My only real contention with your underlying premise on the 'Majority of snowflakes having racist undertones' is, in my 43 years, amongst some of the most diverse institutions this country has is this: all ethnicities have about the same amount, % wise, of underlying racial apprehension as the next. White, black, brown, and yellow (sons of anarchy did a wonderful job of driving those terms home, lol).

I never said "majority" and if I did I'm specifying a particular sub-demographic from within a demographic. As far as equalizing all ethnic groups as having the same amount of "racial hostility" I beg to differ. Remember, the racism as expressed by some blacks evolved due to white nationalism that is a fact. Now, I do not condone it, but I understand that racism as expressed by minorities is the result of what was done against them. No action at least brought about by humans comes without some sort of cause.
Stymie13
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9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.
Hiu
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9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.
Stymie13
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9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11
Hiu
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9/25/2016 12:14:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11

I know how it feels...I had a forbidden love with a beautiful Egyptian Muslim female who wore the Hijab and we were in some very lily white places and the stares we both got was nothing short of creepy.
Stymie13
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9/25/2016 1:32:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 12:14:38 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11

I know how it feels...I had a forbidden love with a beautiful Egyptian Muslim female who wore the Hijab and we were in some very lily white places and the stares we both got was nothing short of creepy.

According to the census bureau I'm white... Yet my lineage to Africa is barely 105 years old (that side went to France in 1911, which they regretted 3 years later, then here in 52).

The bottom line is I've been called called sand n....r and raghead more by the brothers here, and the vatos in Vegas, than by Frosties everywhere.

Moral of my story: I mock and ridicule all ethnicities but all the self righteousness of any of them is f.o.s.

If one wants to be ultra proud in their heritage, more power. Fight for equality? Just make sure it's fair and legit. Play victim and believe everything is stacked against, knowing that life and society will never be 109% altruistic and completely fair? Time for ridicule.

Now if people want to see truly depressing and forgotten areas, don't look at inner cities (where I was raised). Look at the hills of eAstern ky, tn, wv and the delta region of Mississippi. Ones predominantly white, one predominantly black and both are depressingly impoverished and forgotten by the uproar of 'white nationalism' and 'Blm'.

I'd include First Nation sovereign territories but they are lifting themselves up.
NHN
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9/25/2016 3:26:13 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 1:11:56 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
So define 'an intellectual discourse on race'?
The debate between Michael Render and Ta-Nehisi Coates, in response to Bernie Sanders' position on reparations (http://www.theatlantic.com...).
Stymie13
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9/25/2016 4:13:41 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 3:26:13 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/24/2016 1:11:56 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
So define 'an intellectual discourse on race'?
The debate between Michael Render and Ta-Nehisi Coates, in response to Bernie Sanders' position on reparations (http://www.theatlantic.com...).

The link wouldn't open but I happened to actually be on a laptop outside of work and found it. Interesting article
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/26/2016 12:41:06 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 1:32:09 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 12:14:38 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11

I know how it feels...I had a forbidden love with a beautiful Egyptian Muslim female who wore the Hijab and we were in some very lily white places and the stares we both got was nothing short of creepy.

According to the census bureau I'm white... Yet my lineage to Africa is barely 105 years old (that side went to France in 1911, which they regretted 3 years later, then here in 52).

The bottom line is I've been called called sand n....r and raghead more by the brothers here, and the vatos in Vegas, than by Frosties everywhere.

Moral of my story: I mock and ridicule all ethnicities but all the self righteousness of any of them is f.o.s.

If one wants to be ultra proud in their heritage, more power. Fight for equality? Just make sure it's fair and legit. Play victim and believe everything is stacked against, knowing that life and society will never be 109% altruistic and completely fair? Time for ridicule.

Now if people want to see truly depressing and forgotten areas, don't look at inner cities (where I was raised). Look at the hills of eAstern ky, tn, wv and the delta region of Mississippi. Ones predominantly white, one predominantly black and both are depressingly impoverished and forgotten by the uproar of 'white nationalism' and 'Blm'.

I'd include First Nation sovereign territories but they are lifting themselves up.
But I'm trying to tell you that I see and understand that those regions being poor have been forgotten by society but the inner cities (where I grew up) also have issues as well. Being in an apartment full of roaches and no hope is not how to live.
Stymie13
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9/26/2016 1:15:44 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:41:06 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 1:32:09 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 12:14:38 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11

I know how it feels...I had a forbidden love with a beautiful Egyptian Muslim female who wore the Hijab and we were in some very lily white places and the stares we both got was nothing short of creepy.

According to the census bureau I'm white... Yet my lineage to Africa is barely 105 years old (that side went to France in 1911, which they regretted 3 years later, then here in 52).

The bottom line is I've been called called sand n....r and raghead more by the brothers here, and the vatos in Vegas, than by Frosties everywhere.

Moral of my story: I mock and ridicule all ethnicities but all the self righteousness of any of them is f.o.s.

If one wants to be ultra proud in their heritage, more power. Fight for equality? Just make sure it's fair and legit. Play victim and believe everything is stacked against, knowing that life and society will never be 109% altruistic and completely fair? Time for ridicule.

Now if people want to see truly depressing and forgotten areas, don't look at inner cities (where I was raised). Look at the hills of eAstern ky, tn, wv and the delta region of Mississippi. Ones predominantly white, one predominantly black and both are depressingly impoverished and forgotten by the uproar of 'white nationalism' and 'Blm'.

I'd include First Nation sovereign territories but they are lifting themselves up.
But I'm trying to tell you that I see and understand that those regions being poor have been forgotten by society but the inner cities (where I grew up) also have issues as well. Being in an apartment full of roaches and no hope is not how to live.

I grew up in that shlt too... Over the Rhine in cincy to be exact. And as one who lived their first 14 years in the Jects, with me and my bro as the only 'white' kids, even though we really aren't (although we have vastly different complexions), I'll emphatically state that many 'inner city' people are overly sensitive.

You know the hills and delta are poor. Go visit there. It'll provide a different perspective.

Actually, you want poor, go to places some of us have been: Tegucigalpa, Managua, Mombasa, the favellas of Sao Paolo...

I don't try to convince or persuade. People are shaped by their experiences and education... Both formal and self taught. However, the one common theme among humanity is this: life is a m.fer whether rich or poor, light skinned or dark, educated or ignorant and few can truly step outside themselves, their ego, and 'listen' to what others say. We all hurt, we all suffer, and we all die. Yet many run around their whole life worrying about crap outside their control, such as this person is a bigoted d. Bag, or that person is a self hating c. Sucker, etc..., etc...

We all have the ability to be wonderful humans... And we all have the ability to be self serving egotistic azzhats. The choice is ours.
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/26/2016 1:19:58 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:15:44 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:41:06 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 1:32:09 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 12:14:38 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11

I know how it feels...I had a forbidden love with a beautiful Egyptian Muslim female who wore the Hijab and we were in some very lily white places and the stares we both got was nothing short of creepy.

According to the census bureau I'm white... Yet my lineage to Africa is barely 105 years old (that side went to France in 1911, which they regretted 3 years later, then here in 52).

The bottom line is I've been called called sand n....r and raghead more by the brothers here, and the vatos in Vegas, than by Frosties everywhere.

Moral of my story: I mock and ridicule all ethnicities but all the self righteousness of any of them is f.o.s.

If one wants to be ultra proud in their heritage, more power. Fight for equality? Just make sure it's fair and legit. Play victim and believe everything is stacked against, knowing that life and society will never be 109% altruistic and completely fair? Time for ridicule.

Now if people want to see truly depressing and forgotten areas, don't look at inner cities (where I was raised). Look at the hills of eAstern ky, tn, wv and the delta region of Mississippi. Ones predominantly white, one predominantly black and both are depressingly impoverished and forgotten by the uproar of 'white nationalism' and 'Blm'.

I'd include First Nation sovereign territories but they are lifting themselves up.
But I'm trying to tell you that I see and understand that those regions being poor have been forgotten by society but the inner cities (where I grew up) also have issues as well. Being in an apartment full of roaches and no hope is not how to live.

I grew up in that shlt too... Over the Rhine in cincy to be exact. And as one who lived their first 14 years in the Jects, with me and my bro as the only 'white' kids, even though we really aren't (although we have vastly different complexions), I'll emphatically state that many 'inner city' people are overly sensitive.

You know the hills and delta are poor. Go visit there. It'll provide a different perspective.

Actually, you want poor, go to places some of us have been: Tegucigalpa, Managua, Mombasa, the favellas of Sao Paolo...

I don't try to convince or persuade. People are shaped by their experiences and education... Both formal and self taught. However, the one common theme among humanity is this: life is a m.fer whether rich or poor, light skinned or dark, educated or ignorant and few can truly step outside themselves, their ego, and 'listen' to what others say. We all hurt, we all suffer, and we all die. Yet many run around their whole life worrying about crap outside their control, such as this person is a bigoted d. Bag, or that person is a self hating c. Sucker, etc..., etc...

We all have the ability to be wonderful humans... And we all have the ability to be self serving egotistic azzhats. The choice is ours.

Agreed. Suffering is everywhere but the reality is this...We all don't think about another's reality, we think about our own and I understand that. Although I see the point you are trying to make I still see you undermining the issues blacks face and it is okay. I don't expect you to understand after all you've adopted being "white" "arab" whatever.....
Hiu
Posts: 978
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9/26/2016 1:22:03 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:15:44 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 12:41:06 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 1:32:09 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 12:14:38 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 11:50:22 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:03:34 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/25/2016 2:51:36 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
We all have different experiences. I'm in, and always have been (except 6 months in Michigan) in very diverse areas. And while things were relatively quiet from the mid 90s to the early 2000's, I've seen nothing but an explosion in racial animosity amongst all ethnicities. I don't buy the whole 'a minority is only going to have animosity because what's been done to them'. That's group think, often vicariously. I know just as many keeblers who've been on the receiving end of bigotry (myself included) for no other reason than being white as everyone else. Does it jade them? For many, just like everyone else.

Me personally, I interact with how an individual or group presents themselves to me. That includes whitey. Act like a victim, or be hostile/nasty/belligerent, and they'll receive it right back (if I don't just ignore and laugh at them). Treat me like a human and that same courtesy won't just be extended, but expanded. But for those where the first thing they see is ethnicity, basically it's not worth my time to even acknowledge.

I see your point and again, I repeat, I'm open to all experiences however for you being in Michigan I'm sure the racial climate there is different thasn the racial climate of let's say, some rural area on Georgia. Of course you being white do not buy into the idea that many minorities react based on experiences. I can accept that because I do not think you can understand and how could you? You're what sociologists would consider part of the outgroup. Just as me being a black man I cannot comprehend how it feels to be on the receiving end of a minorities tirade based on being white.

I believe ion order to have some sort of coherent dialogue, there needs to be some acceptance in part of not only the individuals experience but the collective. I think it is important for some whites to understand racism exists, which excels through institutional racism and is perpetuated by it. There are many instances where minorities have a great disadvantage. Again my perspective is that of someone who has lived 34 years on this planet and has had to experienced racism 20 years of it and even after graduating college I continue to experience. Although not at the frequency as my parents and grand-parents, I still experience it nonetheless.

I still think there is a large portion of people that are in denial of the experiences of minorities. it is almost like people are saying "I understand you experience racism but but but, I don't buy into minorities reacting with racism because of their experiences" again, there is that denial of experiences and we will never truly get to the crux of the racial anger if people aren't willing to admit to the problem.

Ha! So much for your assumptions. I'm much more Algerian in appearance than the French part. Try being arab after 9-11

I know how it feels...I had a forbidden love with a beautiful Egyptian Muslim female who wore the Hijab and we were in some very lily white places and the stares we both got was nothing short of creepy.

According to the census bureau I'm white... Yet my lineage to Africa is barely 105 years old (that side went to France in 1911, which they regretted 3 years later, then here in 52).

The bottom line is I've been called called sand n....r and raghead more by the brothers here, and the vatos in Vegas, than by Frosties everywhere.

Moral of my story: I mock and ridicule all ethnicities but all the self righteousness of any of them is f.o.s.

If one wants to be ultra proud in their heritage, more power. Fight for equality? Just make sure it's fair and legit. Play victim and believe everything is stacked against, knowing that life and society will never be 109% altruistic and completely fair? Time for ridicule.

Now if people want to see truly depressing and forgotten areas, don't look at inner cities (where I was raised). Look at the hills of eAstern ky, tn, wv and the delta region of Mississippi. Ones predominantly white, one predominantly black and both are depressingly impoverished and forgotten by the uproar of 'white nationalism' and 'Blm'.

I'd include First Nation sovereign territories but they are lifting themselves up.
But I'm trying to tell you that I see and understand that those regions being poor have been forgotten by society but the inner cities (where I grew up) also have issues as well. Being in an apartment full of roaches and no hope is not how to live.

I grew up in that shlt too... Over the Rhine in cincy to be exact. And as one who lived their first 14 years in the Jects, with me and my bro as the only 'white' kids, even though we really aren't (although we have vastly different complexions), I'll emphatically state that many 'inner city' people are overly sensitive.

You know the hills and delta are poor. Go visit there. It'll provide a different perspective.

Actually, you want poor, go to places some of us have been: Tegucigalpa, Managua, Mombasa, the favellas of Sao Paolo...

I don't try to convince or persuade. People are shaped by their experiences and education... Both formal and self taught. However, the one common theme among humanity is this: life is a m.fer whether rich or poor, light skinned or dark, educated or ignorant and few can truly step outside themselves, their ego, and 'listen' to what others say. We all hurt, we all suffer, and we all die. Yet many run around their whole life worrying about crap outside their control, such as this person is a bigoted d. Bag, or that person is a self hating c. Sucker, etc..., etc...

We all have the ability to be wonderful humans... And we all have the ability to be self serving egotistic azzhats. The choice is ours.

That is the whole point of my premise...In order to discuss race we need to come to the table and accept what others have experienced. 43 million blacks and we all (or most of us) think and have similar or the same experience. The civil rights movement and subsequent events thereafter was not a mirage.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/26/2016 1:48:21 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Actually the only thing I've 'adopted' is that I'm American, divorced, and one day may find love again, or not. Until then, practice the golden rule and accept I only have control over my actions.

As the woman I thought was going to be wife number 2 used to tell me... 'I think you think too much.' And you know what? She was right. I can't solve world hunger, gender inequity, racial relations, or our rapidly diminishing access to potable water. But I can be kind to those that are out in my path through the natural course of life.

I'm cool with that. Being angry for many years only made me miserable. Focusing on the unfairness of life only made me unbearable.