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Why do you oppose abortion?

Chloe8
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9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Vox_Veritas
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9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
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9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/21/2016 8:14:41 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.

I know that your reasoning for opposing abortion is based on your religion. Do you accept that? You might as well be honest.

You have failed to provide any reason why a human foetus is more deserving of legal protection then a pig foetus. That's because there is no reasonable argument.

Terminating a pregnancy is comparable to killing an animal. Yes It's not very nice but comparing it to murder is not logical.

You have told me that before. What's the difference between a sperm cell, an egg cell and a fertilized egg? How is the fertilized egg deserving of special protection?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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9/21/2016 8:18:44 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:14:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.

I know that your reasoning for opposing abortion is based on your religion. Do you accept that? You might as well be honest.

Religion may shape my views on the matter, just as many people who opposed slavery did so because their religious beliefs saw slavery as wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and many atheists are pro-life.

You have failed to provide any reason why a human foetus is more deserving of legal protection then a pig foetus. That's because there is no reasonable argument.

I did provide a reason: because it's a human being. You totally ignored what I wrote.

Terminating a pregnancy is comparable to killing an animal. Yes It's not very nice but comparing it to murder is not logical.

You have told me that before. What's the difference between a sperm cell, an egg cell and a fertilized egg? How is the fertilized egg deserving of special protection?

Why are you deserving of special protection? Why can an animal be killed but if someone killed you it'd be murder?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/21/2016 8:23:43 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

I plan to have children in the future. I don't want to sterilize myself. It's a permanent operation.

Out of interest what do you consider reasonable protective measures against rape?

I take reasonable precautions to avoid pregnancy. Having an abortion is not something I have any desire to do. However if i got pregnant unintentionally I would have an abortion. My body, my choices. Let your God torture me for eternity if he has a problem with it.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Vox_Veritas
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9/21/2016 8:32:20 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:23:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

I plan to have children in the future. I don't want to sterilize myself. It's a permanent operation.

It's a permanent operation in the sense that it won't magically undo itself with time, but tubal ligation can be reversed, especially if done within only a few years after the operation.

Out of interest what do you consider reasonable protective measures against rape?

Staying away from frat parties, bringing a female friend along whenever you go out drinking, etc.

I take reasonable precautions to avoid pregnancy. Having an abortion is not something I have any desire to do. However if i got pregnant unintentionally I would have an abortion. My body, my choices. Let your God torture me for eternity if he has a problem with it.

Out of curiosity, is it in your opinion okay for a mother to kill her 4 year old son if he's too much of an inconvenience and financial burden on her?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/21/2016 8:33:05 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:18:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:14:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.

I know that your reasoning for opposing abortion is based on your religion. Do you accept that? You might as well be honest.

Religion may shape my views on the matter, just as many people who opposed slavery did so because their religious beliefs saw slavery as wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and many atheists are pro-life.

Actually many people opposed slavery despite the bible. The people justifying it were the ones quoting from it.

Most people who believe in restricting women's reproductive rights are theists. Although I acknowledge there are exceptions.

You have failed to provide any reason why a human foetus is more deserving of legal protection then a pig foetus. That's because there is no reasonable argument.

I did provide a reason: because it's a human being. You totally ignored what I wrote.

Yes but why does a human in such an immature form deserve more rights then adult animals?

Terminating a pregnancy is comparable to killing an animal. Yes It's not very nice but comparing it to murder is not logical.

You have told me that before. What's the difference between a sperm cell, an egg cell and a fertilized egg? How is the fertilized egg deserving of special protection?

Why are you deserving of special protection? Why can an animal be killed but if someone killed you it'd be murder?

1. I have sufficient cognitive development to recognize and know about my existence and know what would happen if my life ended.

2. The traumatic experience my family and friends would have to go through if i was murdered.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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9/21/2016 8:41:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:32:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

I plan to have children in the future. I don't want to sterilize myself. It's a permanent operation.

It's a permanent operation in the sense that it won't magically undo itself with time, but tubal ligation can be reversed, especially if done within only a few years after the operation.

Why would I want to undergo such an operation?

Out of interest what do you consider reasonable protective measures against rape?

Staying away from frat parties, bringing a female friend along whenever you go out drinking, etc.

Fair enough.

I take reasonable precautions to avoid pregnancy. Having an abortion is not something I have any desire to do. However if i got pregnant unintentionally I would have an abortion. My body, my choices. Let your God torture me for eternity if he has a problem with it.

Out of curiosity, is it in your opinion okay for a mother to kill her 4 year old son if he's too much of an inconvenience and financial burden on her?

No it's not ok in that scenario. She has gone through the pregnancy, just give him up for adoption. The child is also far more developed than a foetus.

I'm guessing you would force women who are raped to give birth to the rapists baby?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,949
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9/21/2016 8:44:02 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

animals can never be self aware

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

never heard of PETA? lots of animal rights have cause violence over the issue

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't want to pay for it, so it shouldn't be paid for by tax money except for the most extreme cases, it's dangerous on a variety of levels for the mother, there's lots of people willing to adopt, various forms of birth control are available, including (drum roll please) SELF CONTROL!!!!! oh no personal responsibility say it ain't so.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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9/21/2016 8:47:40 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:33:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:18:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:14:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.

I know that your reasoning for opposing abortion is based on your religion. Do you accept that? You might as well be honest.

Religion may shape my views on the matter, just as many people who opposed slavery did so because their religious beliefs saw slavery as wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and many atheists are pro-life.

Actually many people opposed slavery despite the bible. The people justifying it were the ones quoting from it.

People on both sides used the Bible to justify their stance. The Bible gives no command for people to own slaves; rather, there were at best some verses allowing the practice within the context of certain ancient cultures. The people who used the Bible to justify slavery were doing just that: justifying something that they were already doing. They certainly didn't buy slaves out of devotion to God.
The Bible says "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male nor female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ." This verse would suggest that slavery is immoral. The Bible also says "He (The Spirit of the Lord) has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the oppressed, to set at liberty those who are oppressed." This is another verse which could serve as a condemnation of slavery. There's plenty in the Bible to suggest that Christians should not own slaves, and the man who abolished the slave trade in the British Empire was William Wilberforce, a devout Christian.

Most people who believe in restricting women's reproductive rights are theists. Although I acknowledge there are exceptions.

You have failed to provide any reason why a human foetus is more deserving of legal protection then a pig foetus. That's because there is no reasonable argument.

I did provide a reason: because it's a human being. You totally ignored what I wrote.

Yes but why does a human in such an immature form deserve more rights then adult animals?

Why does its "immature form" matter?

Terminating a pregnancy is comparable to killing an animal. Yes It's not very nice but comparing it to murder is not logical.

You have told me that before. What's the difference between a sperm cell, an egg cell and a fertilized egg? How is the fertilized egg deserving of special protection?

Why are you deserving of special protection? Why can an animal be killed but if someone killed you it'd be murder?

1. I have sufficient cognitive development to recognize and know about my existence and know what would happen if my life ended.

What if you were killed in your sleep?

2. The traumatic experience my family and friends would have to go through if i was murdered.

Then why is suicide okay?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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9/21/2016 8:53:31 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:41:39 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:32:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

I plan to have children in the future. I don't want to sterilize myself. It's a permanent operation.

It's a permanent operation in the sense that it won't magically undo itself with time, but tubal ligation can be reversed, especially if done within only a few years after the operation.

Why would I want to undergo such an operation?

So that you don't have to get pregnant, and so that you don't have to kill anyone. If for nothing else, it'd make you look "responsible" and "empowered".

Out of interest what do you consider reasonable protective measures against rape?

Staying away from frat parties, bringing a female friend along whenever you go out drinking, etc.

Fair enough.

I take reasonable precautions to avoid pregnancy. Having an abortion is not something I have any desire to do. However if i got pregnant unintentionally I would have an abortion. My body, my choices. Let your God torture me for eternity if he has a problem with it.

Out of curiosity, is it in your opinion okay for a mother to kill her 4 year old son if he's too much of an inconvenience and financial burden on her?

No it's not ok in that scenario. She has gone through the pregnancy, just give him up for adoption. The child is also far more developed than a foetus.

So if surgically removing fetuses from the body and putting them on artificial life support systems was an option, would you be okay with outlawing abortion and doing this instead?

I'm guessing you would force women who are raped to give birth to the rapists baby?

Yes, though I would support measures to keep said pregnancy from occurring.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Chloe8
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9/21/2016 9:48:55 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:44:02 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

animals can never be self aware

A foetus is not self aware either.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

never heard of PETA? lots of animal rights have cause violence over the issue

I don't see any vegetarians calling a vet a murderer for giving a dog an abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't want to pay for it, so it shouldn't be paid for by tax money except for the most extreme cases, it's dangerous on a variety of levels for the mother, there's lots of people willing to adopt, various forms of birth control are available, including (drum roll please) SELF CONTROL!!!!! oh no personal responsibility say it ain't so.

Yes I think if someone is an adult and has means to afford it they should pay for abortions.

Obviously using birth control is advisable but unfortunately unintended pregnancies happen.

The reality Is there is a big shortage of foster parents and the woman would then have to go through with 9 months of unwanted pregnancy.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
keithprosser
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9/22/2016 9:31:57 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I am very open to the idea my unease over abortion is due to me being a life long atheist, chloe.
kevin24018
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9/22/2016 12:08:55 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:48:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:44:02 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

animals can never be self aware

A foetus is not self aware either.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

never heard of PETA? lots of animal rights have cause violence over the issue

I don't see any vegetarians calling a vet a murderer for giving a dog an abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't want to pay for it, so it shouldn't be paid for by tax money except for the most extreme cases, it's dangerous on a variety of levels for the mother, there's lots of people willing to adopt, various forms of birth control are available, including (drum roll please) SELF CONTROL!!!!! oh no personal responsibility say it ain't so.

Yes I think if someone is an adult and has means to afford it they should pay for abortions.

Obviously using birth control is advisable but unfortunately unintended pregnancies happen.

The reality Is there is a big shortage of foster parents and the woman would then have to go through with 9 months of unwanted pregnancy.

too bad, who chose to have sex? how traumatic physically and emotionally can an abortion be? Like all negative behavior if you reduce the consequences to something very minor, not only will it continue and get worse. I know a woman who had 10 abortions, her insurance (medicare, yes medicare) told her they were not going to pay for another. So let's make it a 1 time life benefit, aside from rape you get one get out of free jail card, that's it.
Chloe8
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9/25/2016 10:37:58 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:47:40 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:33:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:18:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:14:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.

I know that your reasoning for opposing abortion is based on your religion. Do you accept that? You might as well be honest.

Religion may shape my views on the matter, just as many people who opposed slavery did so because their religious beliefs saw slavery as wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and many atheists are pro-life.

Actually many people opposed slavery despite the bible. The people justifying it were the ones quoting from it.

People on both sides used the Bible to justify their stance. The Bible gives no command for people to own slaves; rather, there were at best some verses allowing the practice within the context of certain ancient cultures. The people who used the Bible to justify slavery were doing just that: justifying something that they were already doing. They certainly didn't buy slaves out of devotion to God.
The Bible says "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male nor female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ." This verse would suggest that slavery is immoral. The Bible also says "He (The Spirit of the Lord) has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the oppressed, to set at liberty those who are oppressed." This is another verse which could serve as a condemnation of slavery. There's plenty in the Bible to suggest that Christians should not own slaves, and the man who abolished the slave trade in the British Empire was William Wilberforce, a devout Christian.

The fact is the bible contains verses condoning slavery and explaining the type of beatings acceptable in the eyes of God.

The use of other verses in the bible to counteract those verses does nothing other than prove the bible contains contradictions. If God opposed slavery it would be clearly stated, even includes in the commandments. Instead it appears he is OK with it. If the one true god is OK and accepting of something what right does an ordinary human have to oppose the word of this omnipotent, omniscient creator?

Christians who deny their God is accepting of slavery delude themselves.

Most people who believe in restricting women's reproductive rights are theists. Although I acknowledge there are exceptions.

You have failed to provide any reason why a human foetus is more deserving of legal protection then a pig foetus. That's because there is no reasonable argument.

I did provide a reason: because it's a human being. You totally ignored what I wrote.

Yes but why does a human in such an immature form deserve more rights then adult animals?

Why does its "immature form" matter?

Because it's not developed enough to have the personality, thoughts, feelings, emotions, knowledge and intelligence of actual human beings. It's just a foetus.

Terminating a pregnancy is comparable to killing an animal. Yes It's not very nice but comparing it to murder is not logical.

You have told me that before. What's the difference between a sperm cell, an egg cell and a fertilized egg? How is the fertilized egg deserving of special protection?

Why are you deserving of special protection? Why can an animal be killed but if someone killed you it'd be murder?

1. I have sufficient cognitive development to recognize and know about my existence and know what would happen if my life ended.

What if you were killed in your sleep?

I'm an intelligent creature that understands my mortality and do not wish to die. Numerous people would be upset and scared for life by my murder.

2. The traumatic experience my family and friends would have to go through if i was murdered.

Then why is suicide okay?

It's not. People who are mentally ill should receive treatment for their condition. If a person is free from mental and physical illness they will not want to commit suicide.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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9/25/2016 10:47:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:53:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:41:39 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:32:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

I plan to have children in the future. I don't want to sterilize myself. It's a permanent operation.

It's a permanent operation in the sense that it won't magically undo itself with time, but tubal ligation can be reversed, especially if done within only a few years after the operation.

Why would I want to undergo such an operation?

So that you don't have to get pregnant, and so that you don't have to kill anyone. If for nothing else, it'd make you look "responsible" and "empowered".

It would not make me look irresponsible or empowered. It would make me look like someone who was certain they never wanted to have children. I fully intend to have children in the future so such an operation would be entirely illogical and needlessly self destructive when much less invasive and permanent contraceptive measures are available to prevent pregnancy when it is not desired.

Out of interest what do you consider reasonable protective measures against rape?

Staying away from frat parties, bringing a female friend along whenever you go out drinking, etc.

Fair enough.

I take reasonable precautions to avoid pregnancy. Having an abortion is not something I have any desire to do. However if i got pregnant unintentionally I would have an abortion. My body, my choices. Let your God torture me for eternity if he has a problem with it.

Out of curiosity, is it in your opinion okay for a mother to kill her 4 year old son if he's too much of an inconvenience and financial burden on her?

No it's not ok in that scenario. She has gone through the pregnancy, just give him up for adoption. The child is also far more developed than a foetus.

So if surgically removing fetuses from the body and putting them on artificial life support systems was an option, would you be okay with outlawing abortion and doing this instead?

Yes as long as the operation had no worse side effects and implications than abortions.

I'm guessing you would force women who are raped to give birth to the rapists baby?

Yes, though I would support measures to keep said pregnancy from occurring.

I'm not surprised you think that. If a rape victim had an abortion how would you punish them?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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9/25/2016 10:51:52 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/22/2016 12:08:55 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:48:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:44:02 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

animals can never be self aware

A foetus is not self aware either.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

never heard of PETA? lots of animal rights have cause violence over the issue

I don't see any vegetarians calling a vet a murderer for giving a dog an abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't want to pay for it, so it shouldn't be paid for by tax money except for the most extreme cases, it's dangerous on a variety of levels for the mother, there's lots of people willing to adopt, various forms of birth control are available, including (drum roll please) SELF CONTROL!!!!! oh no personal responsibility say it ain't so.

Yes I think if someone is an adult and has means to afford it they should pay for abortions.

Obviously using birth control is advisable but unfortunately unintended pregnancies happen.

The reality Is there is a big shortage of foster parents and the woman would then have to go through with 9 months of unwanted pregnancy.

too bad, who chose to have sex? how traumatic physically and emotionally can an abortion be? Like all negative behavior if you reduce the consequences to something very minor, not only will it continue and get worse. I know a woman who had 10 abortions, her insurance (medicare, yes medicare) told her they were not going to pay for another. So let's make it a 1 time life benefit, aside from rape you get one get out of free jail card, that's it.

No it should be a case of you paying for your own abortions if and when you need them unless you are a child, someone with special needs or someone unable to afford abortions. In the long term the cost of an abortion is negligible when compared to the cost of raising a child in care homes.

People choose to have sex for a variety of reasons but mainly due to the pleasure of the activity and/ or the desire to reproduce.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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9/25/2016 10:53:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/22/2016 9:31:57 AM, keithprosser wrote:
I am very open to the idea my unease over abortion is due to me being a life long atheist, chloe.

Please explain your position in more detail to allow me to make an informed response.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Stymie13
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9/25/2016 11:36:10 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Not all suicides are from mental or physical illness. Many cultures regard shame and dishonor to family and self as suicide necessary.

I too was an atheist for 30 years and prior to stopping to label myself, I grew to the conclusion that abortion FOR convenience isn't right.

And I can tell this thread was started by a late teen early 20 something idealist who thinks they have everything figured out but will change their viewpoints on many subjects over the coming years... And it's quite comical to think back to myself at that age with similar viewpoints and how much life experience alters that idealist bs.
illegalcombat
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9/26/2016 1:14:40 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

It's amazing how forced continuation of pregnancy is used as a punishment, punishment for what ? Well, having irresponsible sex.

Want an abortion ? no way, that will teach the little sl*t to keep their legs shut.
Vox_Veritas
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9/26/2016 1:35:12 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:14:40 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

It's amazing how forced continuation of pregnancy is used as a punishment, punishment for what ? Well, having irresponsible sex.

Want an abortion ? no way, that will teach the little sl*t to keep their legs shut.

You act like a fetus is just a malignant tumour or something.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Genius_Intellect
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9/26/2016 1:36:26 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Animals are yummy.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Pigs are destined for food. If they weren't, we wouldn't breed them.

Fetuses are destined for personhood. Aborting them denies them their destiny.

Cognitive development has nothing to do with it.

For the record, I find it just as repugnant to abort piglets.

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others?

For the most part, I don't, because I recognize that abortion is a complicated subject and my views are in the minority. That said, we impose opinions on others all the time; that's essentially the point of having laws.

You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal,

This happens all the time.

yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

Not okay, just a lesser evil than abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs.

I'm not religious.

Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Religious opposition to abortion makes me laugh, since Yahweh talks several times about having pregnant women "cut open".

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them?

Not a moral person. My criminal record confirms this.

Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

You have a very one-dimensional view of the world. I hope you grow out of it someday.
illegalcombat
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9/26/2016 1:37:07 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:35:12 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/26/2016 1:14:40 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:58:30 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If you don't want to get pregnant, then undergo tubal ligation. It's a relatively inexpensive operation with few negative side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Or, if you can afford it, take "the pill" regularly. Or, abstain from sexual intercourse and take reasonable protective measures against rape. Don't allow a human to be conceived in your womb just to then kill it.

It's amazing how forced continuation of pregnancy is used as a punishment, punishment for what ? Well, having irresponsible sex.

Want an abortion ? no way, that will teach the little sl*t to keep their legs shut.

You act like a fetus is just a malignant tumour or something.

Your acting like your not using forced pregnancy to teach the little sl*t a lesson.
Stymie13
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9/26/2016 1:39:28 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 1:36:26 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Animals are yummy.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Pigs are destined for food. If they weren't, we wouldn't breed them.

Fetuses are destined for personhood. Aborting them denies them their destiny.

Cognitive development has nothing to do with it.

For the record, I find it just as repugnant to abort piglets.

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others?

For the most part, I don't, because I recognize that abortion is a complicated subject and my views are in the minority. That said, we impose opinions on others all the time; that's essentially the point of having laws.

You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal,

This happens all the time.

yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

Not okay, just a lesser evil than abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs.

I'm not religious.

Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Religious opposition to abortion makes me laugh, since Yahweh talks several times about having pregnant women "cut open".

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them?

Not a moral person. My criminal record confirms this.

Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

You have a very one-dimensional view of the world. I hope you grow out of it someday.

It's the idealism of a late teen early 20 something. They have it all figured out... Till they don't.
Hiu
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9/26/2016 6:25:29 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:54:01 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

Because animals aren't human. Humans have a right to life, regardless of their stage of development. Since fetuses are human beings, terminating a human pregnancy is the exact moral equivalent to murdering an already born person. The right to not be murdered far exceeds the supposed right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I support all forms of non-abortifacient contraceptives, just so you know.

A fetus is not sentient nor it is a full human being. fetuses have the potential to be a fully formed human but it is not fully formed.
kevin24018
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9/26/2016 12:29:28 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 10:51:52 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/22/2016 12:08:55 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:48:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:44:02 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

animals can never be self aware

A foetus is not self aware either.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

never heard of PETA? lots of animal rights have cause violence over the issue

I don't see any vegetarians calling a vet a murderer for giving a dog an abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't want to pay for it, so it shouldn't be paid for by tax money except for the most extreme cases, it's dangerous on a variety of levels for the mother, there's lots of people willing to adopt, various forms of birth control are available, including (drum roll please) SELF CONTROL!!!!! oh no personal responsibility say it ain't so.

Yes I think if someone is an adult and has means to afford it they should pay for abortions.

Obviously using birth control is advisable but unfortunately unintended pregnancies happen.

The reality Is there is a big shortage of foster parents and the woman would then have to go through with 9 months of unwanted pregnancy.

too bad, who chose to have sex? how traumatic physically and emotionally can an abortion be? Like all negative behavior if you reduce the consequences to something very minor, not only will it continue and get worse. I know a woman who had 10 abortions, her insurance (medicare, yes medicare) told her they were not going to pay for another. So let's make it a 1 time life benefit, aside from rape you get one get out of free jail card, that's it.

No it should be a case of you paying for your own abortions if and when you need them unless you are a child, someone with special needs or someone unable to afford abortions. In the long term the cost of an abortion is negligible when compared to the cost of raising a child in care homes.

People choose to have sex for a variety of reasons but mainly due to the pleasure of the activity and/ or the desire to reproduce.

do you honestly believe that the % who have abortions don't end up have a child in a fatherless home isn't very high, so it may be delaying it, but we pay for it eventually.
Vaarka
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9/26/2016 12:45:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't usually oppose it, persay, and usually try to leave religion out of that decision, but if I had to base my answer on something, I'd think of a Fahrenheit 451 example. I think the idea of abortion is fine if the person giving birth is in danger of losing her life, so this usually pertains to younger girls. If it's a matter of rape, that's another thing where I'd say the idea of abortion is reasonable.

However, if it's just because you don't want a kid, but you were a consenting adult, then that's not a good enough reason for me. The idea of aborting a child purely because you don't want it doesn't appeal to me.

Another thing with the idea of abortion is that most women see it as black and white, which is either have the kid and raise it or abort it. There are other options, such as giving the child up for adoption, where they still get to live. This is mainly because the child doesn't really have a choice here. That, and I have a friend who is adopted, and if the thought of abortion hadn't been as unpopular as it was 16 years ago, he probably would have been aborted.
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Chloe8
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9/26/2016 10:36:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:45:56 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't usually oppose it, persay, and usually try to leave religion out of that decision, but if I had to base my answer on something, I'd think of a Fahrenheit 451 example. I think the idea of abortion is fine if the person giving birth is in danger of losing her life, so this usually pertains to younger girls. If it's a matter of rape, that's another thing where I'd say the idea of abortion is reasonable.

However, if it's just because you don't want a kid, but you were a consenting adult, then that's not a good enough reason for me. The idea of aborting a child purely because you don't want it doesn't appeal to me.

Another thing with the idea of abortion is that most women see it as black and white, which is either have the kid and raise it or abort it. There are other options, such as giving the child up for adoption, where they still get to live. This is mainly because the child doesn't really have a choice here. That, and I have a friend who is adopted, and if the thought of abortion hadn't been as unpopular as it was 16 years ago, he probably would have been aborted.

Why do you think you have a right to enforce your views on other people?

If a woman does not want to go through nine months of pregnancy that is her choice and you should respect that.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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9/26/2016 10:38:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 12:29:28 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:51:52 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/22/2016 12:08:55 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:48:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:44:02 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 7:37:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
But find it ok to kill animals?

animals can never be self aware

A foetus is not self aware either.

Why does something's potential make it deserving of special protection when it's current level of cognitive development is no different to any mammal at a similar early stage of development, and far lower than intelligent mammals regularly killed for human consumption such as pigs?

Even if you personally don't think abortion is acceptable why do you want to impose your opinion on others? You don't see vegetarians campaigning for laws convicting people of a criminal offence for killing an animal, yet you think its ok to force women to go through nine months of pregnancy against their will?

never heard of PETA? lots of animal rights have cause violence over the issue

I don't see any vegetarians calling a vet a murderer for giving a dog an abortion.

In my opinion objection to abortion is almost exclusively due to people's religious beliefs. Why enforce your views on people who don't believe in your religion or don't interpret it's teaching in the same way? If your so sure your god/ god's exist/s let him/them carry out any punishment.

Many people however lie and claim their objection to abortion is not based on their religious beliefs but on morals or ethics. Are you one of them? Or are you open with accepting its your belief in a religion that is the basis for opposing women's reproductive rights?

I don't want to pay for it, so it shouldn't be paid for by tax money except for the most extreme cases, it's dangerous on a variety of levels for the mother, there's lots of people willing to adopt, various forms of birth control are available, including (drum roll please) SELF CONTROL!!!!! oh no personal responsibility say it ain't so.

Yes I think if someone is an adult and has means to afford it they should pay for abortions.

Obviously using birth control is advisable but unfortunately unintended pregnancies happen.

The reality Is there is a big shortage of foster parents and the woman would then have to go through with 9 months of unwanted pregnancy.

too bad, who chose to have sex? how traumatic physically and emotionally can an abortion be? Like all negative behavior if you reduce the consequences to something very minor, not only will it continue and get worse. I know a woman who had 10 abortions, her insurance (medicare, yes medicare) told her they were not going to pay for another. So let's make it a 1 time life benefit, aside from rape you get one get out of free jail card, that's it.

No it should be a case of you paying for your own abortions if and when you need them unless you are a child, someone with special needs or someone unable to afford abortions. In the long term the cost of an abortion is negligible when compared to the cost of raising a child in care homes.

People choose to have sex for a variety of reasons but mainly due to the pleasure of the activity and/ or the desire to reproduce.

do you honestly believe that the % who have abortions don't end up have a child in a fatherless home isn't very high, so it may be delaying it, but we pay for it eventually.

What point are you making here?

People who have abortions will not neccessarily become single parents.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.