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Black Lives Matters vs Reality

Beisht_Kione
Posts: 233
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9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...

Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.
Beisht_Kione
Posts: 233
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9/23/2016 7:51:04 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
And before someone suggests that these fact suggests that I am a racist(lol...) or use these facts as a justification to dismiss individualism and cast blacks, biologically, (collectivism) in a negative light, then f off.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/23/2016 1:44:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 7:51:04 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
And before someone suggests that these fact suggests that I am a racist(lol...) or use these facts as a justification to dismiss individualism and cast blacks, biologically, (collectivism) in a negative light, then f off.

facts can't be racist :) so don't worry about that, if they where collected in as unbiased a way as possible, then they speak for them selves.

facts can't be racist :) so don't worry about that, if they where collected in as unbiased a way as possible, then they speak for them selves., I can't get onto youtube yet, but are any of the cites from the fbi?
Beisht_Kione
Posts: 233
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9/23/2016 5:43:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 1:44:59 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:51:04 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
And before someone suggests that these fact suggests that I am a racist(lol...) or use these facts as a justification to dismiss individualism and cast blacks, biologically, (collectivism) in a negative light, then f off.

facts can't be racist :) so don't worry about that, if they where collected in as unbiased a way as possible, then they speak for them selves.

facts can't be racist :) so don't worry about that, if they where collected in as unbiased a way as possible, then they speak for them selves., I can't get onto youtube yet, but are any of the cites from the fbi?

Here all of his citations. I wasn't able to open one the links, so I left that one out.
Sources:
https://ucr.fbi.gov...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.nyc.gov...
http://www.nyclu.org...
http://www.census.gov...
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/23/2016 6:36:52 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 5:43:38 PM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
At 9/23/2016 1:44:59 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:51:04 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
And before someone suggests that these fact suggests that I am a racist(lol...) or use these facts as a justification to dismiss individualism and cast blacks, biologically, (collectivism) in a negative light, then f off.

facts can't be racist :) so don't worry about that, if they where collected in as unbiased a way as possible, then they speak for them selves.

facts can't be racist :) so don't worry about that, if they where collected in as unbiased a way as possible, then they speak for them selves., I can't get onto youtube yet, but are any of the cites from the fbi?

Here all of his citations. I wasn't able to open one the links, so I left that one out.
Sources:
https://ucr.fbi.gov...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.nyc.gov...
http://www.nyclu.org...
http://www.census.gov...

When looking at these stats they really should show the percentage with regards to population, some raw numbers are the same or more, but when the population of a group is so much smaller that better shows what the numbers truly represent.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/24/2016 12:40:10 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.
Hiu
Posts: 974
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9/24/2016 1:07:12 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

So what is your point in all of this? What is the thesis of your thread? You used an obvious biased video of a white male trying to tell me and those that look like me that we aren't victims of the justice system.

"Aren"t more white people than black people killed by police? Yes, but no."

-Washington Post

"Doesn"t the available data show more white Americans are being killed by police officers? Where is the outrage for them?"

More from Washington Post:

"But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer."

Oh more from the Washington Post:

"And, when considering shootings confined within a single race, a black person shot and killed by police is more likely to have been unarmed than a white person. About 13 percent of all black people who have been fatally shot by police since January 2015 were unarmed, compared with 7 percent of all white people."

In other words, although whites account for 63% of the American population blacks being 13% of the U.S. population are 2.6 times likely of being shot by cops just as much as whites. The problem is there are 160 million whites compared to 43-44 million blacks...That to me is a problem. But I guess you are going to spin this the way you do based on the internet white dude in your link right?

Oh and like in all discussions when blacks point out injustice people always defer to "what about black on black crime?" Well let's see in the following made by Washington Post:

"Giuliani is wrong about the so-called black-on-black crime rate. According to FBI numbers from 2014, about 90 percent of black homicide victims were killed by other black people. The "white-on-white" murder rate that same year " homicides in which a white person was killed by another white person " was 82 percent of all murders of white people."

I'm curious as to why people don't discuss white on white crime.....Forget whites being more in terms of population this statistic fact tells me there are more violent whites who are violent to other whites than any other demographic. What does that say about that demographic since Rudy Guiliani wants to talk about blacks needing to respect police considering whites are killed more by police? Why don't whites in this category obey cops? Hmmm?

""Blacks are three times as likely to be killed by cops as are whites, on a per-capita basis," Peter Moskos, a former Baltimore police officer and criminal justice researcher at John Jay College of Criminal Justice told the New York Times last April. "But part of that is because of crime in predominantly black neighborhoods."

https://www.washingtonpost.com...
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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9/24/2016 6:36:26 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Regardless of the facts, Black Lives Matter is an incredibly stupid cause. Yes, the lives of black people matter. You know what? The lives of white people matter, too. Same goes for every other race or ethnicity.

You also have to look at the media and how it blows everything out of proportion. White cop shoots black kid, racist murderer. Black cop shoots white kid, completely overlooked. Plus, you never get the whole story. Oh no, black kid shot by white cop six times. You know why he was shot? He was high on illegal drugs, had just robbed a store, and was charging the cop. This is not made up. This happened, but did anyone hear anything beyond "white guy shoots black kid?" No.

Then there is the story about the black caretaker that was shot (not killed) even though he was on the ground. You know why? Well, here's the story. The caretaker was caring for a white adult with a form of autism. For some reason, someone called the cops and told them that this autistic man was actually holding a gun and acting strangely (it was really just some toy). So already, this cop is paranoid and on high alert. The cop shows up and sees the autistic man and his caretaker. The caretaker gets on the ground and tries to explain what is happening. The autistic man, not knowing what is happening, stays standing and begins to mess with the toy. The cop thinks he is pulling a gun and makes a split second decision to shoot. This cop was apparently either badly trained or very flustered, as he accidentally managed to shoot the caretaker, wounding him. Where, I ask you, is the racism here? Nowhere. People and the media just blow it out of proportion and create controversy to fuel their causes.

Then you look at the riots. What organization can claim that their lives matter and then go on riots, destroying things and attacking police officers? You have to realize that this only makes officers more paranoid.

On top of all that, look at the hypocrisy. What kind of message is this? Black people are discriminated against and hated, so lets discriminate and hate on white people. Seriously, it is ridiculous. This doesn't even occur only in Black Lives Matter. I've met black people online that were as racist (if not more) against whites than any white against blacks that I have ever met. He called me names, he forced false stereotypes on me, and even went as far as blaming me, personally, for slavery. This is a horrible event that happened hundreds of years ago. And yet, he wasn't racist because "black people can't be racist." What? Seriously, how can you claim that you are oppressed while simultaneously trying to discriminate against and oppress someone else?

I am not racist. I am not saying that black lives don't matter. They do, but so do everyone else's (assuming you are a law abiding member of society). Black Lives Matter is a stupid, hypocritical, destructive cause, and it needs to stop. It is not that hard to just live with each other and out differences. And please, before you get all pissed about some black kid shot by some white officer, know the facts. The media isn't giving them to you.

Also, I wouldn't go after the police. Someday, you may need them, and going around yelling, "F*** the police!" is not going to make them want to help you. This goes out to everyone, not just Black Lives Matter.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Beisht_Kione
Posts: 233
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9/25/2016 9:33:00 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 1:07:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

So what is your point in all of this? What is the thesis of your thread? You used an obvious biased video of a white male trying to tell me and those that look like me that we aren't victims of the justice system.

"Aren"t more white people than black people killed by police? Yes, but no."

-Washington Post

"Doesn"t the available data show more white Americans are being killed by police officers? Where is the outrage for them?"

More from Washington Post:

"But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer."

Oh more from the Washington Post:

"And, when considering shootings confined within a single race, a black person shot and killed by police is more likely to have been unarmed than a white person. About 13 percent of all black people who have been fatally shot by police since January 2015 were unarmed, compared with 7 percent of all white people."

In other words, although whites account for 63% of the American population blacks being 13% of the U.S. population are 2.6 times likely of being shot by cops just as much as whites. The problem is there are 160 million whites compared to 43-44 million blacks...That to me is a problem. But I guess you are going to spin this the way you do based on the internet white dude in your link right?


Oh and like in all discussions when blacks point out injustice people always defer to "what about black on black crime?" Well let's see in the following made by Washington Post:

"Giuliani is wrong about the so-called black-on-black crime rate. According to FBI numbers from 2014, about 90 percent of black homicide victims were killed by other black people. The "white-on-white" murder rate that same year " homicides in which a white person was killed by another white person " was 82 percent of all murders of white people."

I'm curious as to why people don't discuss white on white crime.....Forget whites being more in terms of population this statistic fact tells me there are more violent whites who are violent to other whites than any other demographic. What does that say about that demographic since Rudy Guiliani wants to talk about blacks needing to respect police considering whites are killed more by police? Why don't whites in this category obey cops? Hmmm?

""Blacks are three times as likely to be killed by cops as are whites, on a per-capita basis," Peter Moskos, a former Baltimore police officer and criminal justice researcher at John Jay College of Criminal Justice told the New York Times last April. "But part of that is because of crime in predominantly black neighborhoods."

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

I find it curious that you assume that I'm a white male. You have no evidence of this and yet you still contrived this genetic fallacy, as if it should mean something. I've noticed how laughably weak the people on this website can be (all sides), but I'm here to change that.
Time to end the sh*t posting and use this site for what it meant for. I'm going to clean this up, and you are now one of my many targets(left, right, up and down).
I have provided overwhelming evidence contrary to your's, and here you are trying to use partial data to further your point.
Have some humility and act like you give a sh*t about facts. Give your narrative a rest for just a second. Just because your refuse to admit you are wrong, doesn't change the fact, that per the given evidence, that you are wrong.

A new era has hit debate.org. You and your's from all sides will be destroyed by evidence and proof. Save your sh*t posting for a thread I'm not on, knowing I may show up to call you out.
If you refuse to change your mind in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, then I will make it my duty to humiliate you to extent that I can.
You haven't disproved a single argument I have made and yet, here you are, wasting my time and p*ssing me off with your pathetic attempt at an argument.
Step up your game or go back to facebook.
Beisht_Kione
Posts: 233
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9/25/2016 10:00:35 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 12:40:10 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.
Hiu
Posts: 974
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9/25/2016 10:13:42 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 9:33:00 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
At 9/24/2016 1:07:12 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

So what is your point in all of this? What is the thesis of your thread? You used an obvious biased video of a white male trying to tell me and those that look like me that we aren't victims of the justice system.

"Aren"t more white people than black people killed by police? Yes, but no."

-Washington Post

"Doesn"t the available data show more white Americans are being killed by police officers? Where is the outrage for them?"

More from Washington Post:

"But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer."

Oh more from the Washington Post:

"And, when considering shootings confined within a single race, a black person shot and killed by police is more likely to have been unarmed than a white person. About 13 percent of all black people who have been fatally shot by police since January 2015 were unarmed, compared with 7 percent of all white people."

In other words, although whites account for 63% of the American population blacks being 13% of the U.S. population are 2.6 times likely of being shot by cops just as much as whites. The problem is there are 160 million whites compared to 43-44 million blacks...That to me is a problem. But I guess you are going to spin this the way you do based on the internet white dude in your link right?


Oh and like in all discussions when blacks point out injustice people always defer to "what about black on black crime?" Well let's see in the following made by Washington Post:

"Giuliani is wrong about the so-called black-on-black crime rate. According to FBI numbers from 2014, about 90 percent of black homicide victims were killed by other black people. The "white-on-white" murder rate that same year " homicides in which a white person was killed by another white person " was 82 percent of all murders of white people."

I'm curious as to why people don't discuss white on white crime.....Forget whites being more in terms of population this statistic fact tells me there are more violent whites who are violent to other whites than any other demographic. What does that say about that demographic since Rudy Guiliani wants to talk about blacks needing to respect police considering whites are killed more by police? Why don't whites in this category obey cops? Hmmm?

""Blacks are three times as likely to be killed by cops as are whites, on a per-capita basis," Peter Moskos, a former Baltimore police officer and criminal justice researcher at John Jay College of Criminal Justice told the New York Times last April. "But part of that is because of crime in predominantly black neighborhoods."

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

I find it curious that you assume that I'm a white male. You have no evidence of this and yet you still contrived this genetic fallacy, as if it should mean something. I've noticed how laughably weak the people on this website can be (all sides), but I'm here to change that.
Time to end the sh*t posting and use this site for what it meant for. I'm going to clean this up, and you are now one of my many targets(left, right, up and down).
I have provided overwhelming evidence contrary to your's, and here you are trying to use partial data to further your point.
Have some humility and act like you give a sh*t about facts. Give your narrative a rest for just a second. Just because your refuse to admit you are wrong, doesn't change the fact, that per the given evidence, that you are wrong.

A new era has hit debate.org. You and your's from all sides will be destroyed by evidence and proof. Save your sh*t posting for a thread I'm not on, knowing I may show up to call you out.
If you refuse to change your mind in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, then I will make it my duty to humiliate you to extent that I can.
You haven't disproved a single argument I have made and yet, here you are, wasting my time and p*ssing me off with your pathetic attempt at an argument.
Step up your game or go back to facebook.

You sound you're trying to write a script for Avengers
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/25/2016 12:00:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
These black white threads are comical. Almost like reading the comics in the morning...
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/25/2016 8:47:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 10:00:35 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:40:10 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 8:47:45 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:00:35 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:40:10 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 8:47:45 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/25/2016 10:00:35 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
At 9/24/2016 12:40:10 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/23/2016 7:37:53 AM, Beisht_Kione wrote:
Time to look at the numbers.
In 2015, 990 people were killed by police.
258 were black(24%) 494 were white(50%).
So blacks are the victims?

That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.

I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
That 13% of the population is committing this amount of the crimes in the US, a country of 312,000,000 people.
Robbery-56%
Murder/non negligent manslaughter-51%
Aggravated assault- 33%
Rape-30%
Total violent crime-38%
Total crime-28%
Black population-13%

Likelihood that blacks would resist arrest verses whites per crime
Misdemeanor drug possession - 1.9 times more likely
Disorderly conduct- 1.6 times more likely
Petty theft- 1.6 times more likely

Percentage of crimes committed by blacks on blacks-
Violent crime-72%
Robbery-96%
Assault-70%

Stop and frisk in New York- blacks are 6.9 times more likely to be stopped and frisked
In New York blacks (22% of population) are xx times more likely to commit said crime.
Murder-12.6 times more
Rape-9.6 time more
Robbery 17.2 times more
Felonious assault- 8 times more
Grand larceny- 8.4 times more
Shootings- 34 times more

In 2014
Whites murdered 187 blacks
Blacks murdered 446 whites
Whites murdered 2488 whites
Blacks murdered 2205 blacks
Adjusted for population, blacks kill whites 11.9 times more than whites murder blacks.

In 2010 blacks committed 5 times more violent crimes on whites, than whites committed on blacks.
Adjusted for population blacks are 26.7 times more likely to commit a violent crime on whites, than the reverse.

All of this and more covered in this short video. Citations listed in the description.
https://www.youtube.com...


Oh and facts aren't racist, just inconvenient to weak arguments.

Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/27/2016 1:10:38 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:


Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/27/2016 1:16:09 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 1:10:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:


Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/27/2016 1:28:16 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 1:16:09 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 1:10:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:


Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?
The communities where riots happened denounced the violence and riots. There are trolls who used the BLM movement to encourage violence to try to either promote their own agendas (socialism) or discredit BLM's purpose . There are trolls on the left and trolls on the right who use racial tensions to try to promote agendas that have nothing to do with the actual BLM platform or its founding.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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9/27/2016 11:35:23 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?
The communities where riots happened denounced the violence and riots.

After the fact. Were they so outnumbered by the rest of the movement, you would think it would be easy to diffuse... or better yet, record and turn said offenders in for egregious violations of the law.

But... well, snitches, stitches, ditches and all.

There are trolls who used the BLM movement to encourage violence to try to either promote their own agendas (socialism) or discredit BLM's purpose . There are trolls on the left and trolls on the right who use racial tensions to try to promote agendas that have nothing to do with the actual BLM platform or its founding.

When was the last time you saw a TEA party demonstration begin attacking blacks or burning down establishments? BLM is asking specifically to -defund- police in general. Why would you suppose that is? What is the best possible end-goal that could be achieved through that?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/27/2016 12:18:31 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 11:35:23 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?
The communities where riots happened denounced the violence and riots.

After the fact. Were they so outnumbered by the rest of the movement, you would think it would be easy to diffuse... or better yet, record and turn said offenders in for egregious violations of the law.

I've said the exact same thing, you'd think when they were looting and destroying business by blacks they would at least have done it for them but nope.

But... well, snitches, stitches, ditches and all.

There are trolls who used the BLM movement to encourage violence to try to either promote their own agendas (socialism) or discredit BLM's purpose . There are trolls on the left and trolls on the right who use racial tensions to try to promote agendas that have nothing to do with the actual BLM platform or its founding.


When was the last time you saw a TEA party demonstration begin attacking blacks or burning down establishments? BLM is asking specifically to -defund- police in general. Why would you suppose that is? What is the best possible end-goal that could be achieved through that?

And this is what we see, which is what the opinion is based. I haven't seen anyone on the news denouncing the illegal and violent activity, might be the fault of the liberal media, but if they wanted to be heard they would find a way. In the age of video it shouldn't be too difficult to report the offenders even anonymously. Remember that woman who slapped her son for being at the riot? why aren't there more like her? You'd think if the police were racist and out to arrest and kill blacks, a riot would be open season, talk about a perfect opportunity.
Hiu
Posts: 974
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9/27/2016 7:51:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 1:16:09 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 1:10:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:


Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?

You claim to not see any denouncement of the riots and looting correct? Here is my question to you. Where are you looking? In the media? CNN? Bill O'Rielly? Fox? Your local news stand? What outlet do you need to see that will convince you that people are actually denouncing the lootings?
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
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9/27/2016 8:47:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 7:51:59 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/27/2016 1:16:09 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 1:10:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:


Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?

You claim to not see any denouncement of the riots and looting correct? Here is my question to you. Where are you looking? In the media? CNN? Bill O'Rielly? Fox? Your local news stand? What outlet do you need to see that will convince you that people are actually denouncing the lootings?

tv and google news mostly, do you believe most of the media outlets show those who denounce the violence during their prime time telecasts?
there's 2 things here as I see it
1. there's not many who denounce, or are not a leader in the movement
2. the media chooses not to cover them with any detail or regularity

regardless the violence out shadows and who might denounce it, has any of the blm leadership or community black leaders held new conferences to denounce these activities? either they have, or rarely they have, or the media chooses not to cover it.
do you think they have been vocal enough against the violence?
Hiu
Posts: 974
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9/27/2016 8:59:15 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 8:47:46 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 7:51:59 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/27/2016 1:16:09 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 1:10:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/27/2016 12:52:13 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 11:30:22 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 9/26/2016 8:04:56 PM, kevin24018 wrote:


Ok - your statistics actually support BLM. This is how:

Given the fact that collectively those of African descent are suffering set backs due to everything that has happened since the exploration and settlement of this country, many have internalized the negativity that was (and still is to a degree,) projected onto them by their oppressors, and find it easier to lash out at one another than to rise to individual prosperity, like people of non-African descent are conditioned to do in America. I know it's a long sentence, but it expresses a complete thought on the subject.

When we see these kinds of statistics it demonstrates that the wounds of being denied equal opportunity at best, and dealt genocide at worst, are deeply embedded into the psyches many Black Americans. What is the remedy is the question? SJW would want us to believe that it is to censor whites who continue to hold racist views, but clearly this is only causing more resistance to them having empathy for conditions that black Americans are subject to both internally and externally that whites are not.

I don't care how much emotional rhetoric you use, it will never work on me.
Bring facts to the table or stop wasting my time with your juvenile argument.
I brought facts. You bring facts.

If you can't find it within yourself to approach the subject compassionately and with common sense, than no amount of facts will change your closed mind. I will provide a few quotes and links to back up my assertion.

"He goes on in Ending Slavery to describe how that process stopped short in America, after the Civil War.

After the American Civil War freed slaves also knew what it would take to build a decent life in free dome. Their work experience told them that forty acres and a mule could feed a family and grow enough of a cash crop to make a life and get the children to school. American slaves never got their forty acres and a mule.

Without collective investment in rehabilitation and restoration, Bales writes that many freed slaves return to slavery, either by choice or compelled by circumstances unchanged except for simply having been released." - https://ourfuture.org...

"What is sometimes denied, but what must be recognized is that this is, indeed, a race problem. The plight of the underclass is not rightly seen as another (albeit severe) instance of economic inequality, American style. These black ghetto dwellers are a people apart, susceptible to stereotyping, stigmatized for their cultural styles, isolated socially, experiencing an internalized sense of helplessness and despair, with limited access to communal networks of mutual assistance. Their purported criminality, sexual profligacy, and intellectual inadequacy are the frequent objects of public derision. In a word, they suffer a pariah status. It should not require enormous powers of perception to see how this degradation relates to the shameful history of black-white race relations in this country." -https://www.brookings.edu...

Here are more links on the subject, if you are interested in reading them.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu...
The following link provides statistical analysis.
https://eh.net...

that was interesting, and to me really draws a direct line to the welfare state and entitlements, slaves were dependent, that's all the ever knew so it would make sense some might return, lot of similarities......
However we are basically divided up into 2 groups, liberals and conservatives each group has different ideas of how and what is help. Most would agree and probably have for a long time, things need to change, but when both major groups can't decide how that should happen, nothing gets done, my personal opinion is the best way to help someone is help them be self sufficient and independent, give history etc no about of convincing is going to make me accept that more entitlements and welfare is the solution. In fact the success stories are about those who worked hard to be self sufficient and independent of the government, so why not help people do that? that's another thread and I'm sure I've ranted about that as well.


I agree with helping people to become self sufficient, less dependent on government , and eventually completely self sufficient, but I equally agree that the history of oppression and the mental and economic conditions it continues to foster, and how it effects current generations, needs to be taken seriously by those who are too quick to dismiss it.

I don't think it's dismissive but rather the frustration of seeing what needs to happen, by our elected incompetents, lack of self help, finger pointing and blaming, when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously? I personally wouldn't expect help if I didn't take personal responsibility for myself and try to fix my situation, I can make all the excuses and justifications I want, won't help, when has it ever?

Please clarify your thoughts. What you have written makes no sense to me: "...when those who refuse to and don't denounce what is obviously shouldn't be and don't, but rather make excuses and justify, how do you then take anything else they claim to stand for seriously?"

You are missing the point entirely. In order for people to take responsibility they need to be given opportunities.

what opportunities do they need to take responsibility for the riots? who is denouncing these actions? I see excuses and justifications, so all the violence caused, recent and past, do you think these movement leaders should and should have denounced those?

You claim to not see any denouncement of the riots and looting correct? Here is my question to you. Where are you looking? In the media? CNN? Bill O'Rielly? Fox? Your local news stand? What outlet do you need to see that will convince you that people are actually denouncing the lootings?

tv and google news mostly, do you believe most of the media outlets show those who denounce the violence during their prime time telecasts?
there's 2 things here as I see it
1. there's not many who denounce, or are not a leader in the movement
2. the media chooses not to cover them with any detail or regularity

regardless the violence out shadows and who might denounce it, has any of the blm leadership or community black leaders held new conferences to denounce these activities? either they have, or rarely they have, or the media chooses not to cover it.
do you think they have been vocal enough against the violence?

Interesting. Do I think leaders have been vocal enough? Yes I see
kevin24018
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9/27/2016 9:47:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 8:59:15 PM, Hiu wrote:

do you think they have been vocal enough because you are actively looking? do you think they have been active enough for the average person who may not look on their own but rather just see what is presented to them?
Has there been a press conference denouncing the violence in Charlotte by blm?
Hiu
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9/27/2016 10:20:51 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 9:47:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 8:59:15 PM, Hiu wrote:

do you think they have been vocal enough because you are actively looking? do you think they have been active enough for the average person who may not look on their own but rather just see what is presented to them?
Has there been a press conference denouncing the violence in Charlotte by blm?

How do you know there haven't been a news conference concerning the riots? I'm sure whatever broadcasts that has been going on have been localized in relation to the area that is effected. Have I seen discussions regarding behavior and how one must conduct themselves in a protest have been discussed at meetings I've attended in the past regarding BLM and the black student union. Now when it comes to national attention like I've said in past discussions with friends, the media does not want to see a peaceful protest. Looting and rioting by miscreants fits the narrative and many news bank on negative attention on black Americans.