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#AllLivesMatter is counterproductive

Hiu
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9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

The author continues regarding "color blindness":

"The problem with being "colorblind" " aside from the fact that we"re not really " is that it is really a white privilege to be able to ignore race. White people like me have the luxury of not paying attention to race " white or black. The reason is because whiteness is treated as the default in our society. Whiteness is not a problem for white people, because it blends into the cultural background.

Black people, on the other hand, don"t have the luxury of being "colorblind." They live in a culture which constantly reminds them of their Black-ness, which tells them in a million large and small ways that they are not as important as white people, that their lives actually do not matter as much as white lives. Which is why saying "Black Lives Matter" is so important."

The author continues:

"We need to say "Black Lives Matter," because we"re not living it. No one is questioning whether white lives matter or whether police lives matter. But the question of whether Black lives really matter is an open question in this country. Our institutions act like Black lives do not matter. The police act like Black lives do not matter when they shoot unarmed Black people with their arms in the air and when Blacks are shot at two and a half times the rate of whites, even when whites are armed. The judicial system acts like Black lives don"t matter when Blacks are given more severe sentences than whites who commit the same crimes and are turned into chattel in a for-profit prison-industrial complex.

And white people act like Black lives do not matter when we fail to raise the appropriate level of outrage at unjustified killings of Blacks or when we respond with platitudes like "All Lives Matter.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

The author ends the article with the following:

"Dear fellow white people, we are in the middle of a second Civil Rights Movement. Most of us white people idealize Martin Luther King, Jr. and we like to think that we would have been on his side of things during the Civil Rights era. But the fact is that the majority of the American public did not support the Civil Rights movement while it was happening and only came to see King as a hero after he was killed.

The Civil Rights movement was unpopular among most whites when it was happening. It was unpopular because it made white people deeply uncomfortable. Today, the Black Lives Matter movement makes us uncomfortable, too. In forty years we will look back on this second Civil Rights movement and have to ask ourselves whether we were on the right side of history. If we want to be on the right side of history this time, we have to make ourselves uncomfortable. There is no comfortable way to change. And the change can start with saying this simple but powerful phrase: Black Lives Matter."

See reference: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would like to think that the author has a compelling argument regarding the hashtag #AllLivesMatter. In reality All lives do not matter and that, instead of trying to counter the protest of blacks wanting justice and fair treatment, often times they want to drown out the rhetoric of the BLM for their own. It is hard to take such a movement seriously if they're main focus is the BLM. If ALM (#AllLivesMatter) truly agree with police reform/transparency, fair treatment for persons of color then I do not see why ALM has to distinguish itself as an umbrella term.
Vox_Veritas
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9/28/2016 12:02:08 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I think there's a pretty drastic difference between legally enforced segregation of whites and blacks and the disproportionate use of force against blacks by police (which can be explained by many factors other than racism).
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Hiu
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9/28/2016 12:41:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 12:02:08 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I think there's a pretty drastic difference between legally enforced segregation of whites and blacks and the disproportionate use of force against blacks by police (which can be explained by many factors other than racism).

But as the author indicates, it is not so much as segregation that is the issue today, the feelings that come about when discussing Black Lives Matter. As the author has indicated, the idea of Black Lives Matter makes a lot of whites uncomfortable because it is to address some racial disparities in our society.
Vox_Veritas
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9/28/2016 1:01:24 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 12:41:54 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:02:08 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I think there's a pretty drastic difference between legally enforced segregation of whites and blacks and the disproportionate use of force against blacks by police (which can be explained by many factors other than racism).

But as the author indicates, it is not so much as segregation that is the issue today, the feelings that come about when discussing Black Lives Matter. As the author has indicated, the idea of Black Lives Matter makes a lot of whites uncomfortable because it is to address some racial disparities in our society.

Whites are uncomfortable because whenever race is talked about, it ultimately boils down to how racial minorities struggle daily against those bigoted, oppressive whites. I already made a thread explaining this.

I can see how blacks are upset by the disproportionate use of force against them by the police; they genuinely do feel like they're under attack by the people whose job is to protect them. But considering how many Black Americans there are it's a really, really, really small problem; it is only seen as big because it's sensationalised by the media, and widespread coverage of these incidents causes blacks everywhere to feel afraid for their lives or those of their loved ones.
Passing new legislation that puts new restrictions on the police will undermine decades of reduction in the crime rate; we could literally see a return to 1990s-level crime by the mid-2020s, and there's some evidence to suggest that this is already starting. If we "retrain" officers like Hillary Clinton suggested last night, it might prevent a few extreme incidents, but when confronted by violent young black men many officers will still make the decision to shoot, and the number of black deaths at the hands of cops will remain disproportionately high. Alternately, the perception that the police won't shoot will encourage more young black men to violently confront the police, since they'll have less to lose from doing so.
The only good solution is to let the police do their jobs, quietly punish those few officers whose conduct towards minorities is abhorrent, and don't report incidents like what happened to Michael Brown. Let the flames that fuel BLM die down.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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9/28/2016 1:10:29 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
But yeah, I don't really like #AllLivesMatter either.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Hiu
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9/28/2016 1:26:41 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:01:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:41:54 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:02:08 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I think there's a pretty drastic difference between legally enforced segregation of whites and blacks and the disproportionate use of force against blacks by police (which can be explained by many factors other than racism).

But as the author indicates, it is not so much as segregation that is the issue today, the feelings that come about when discussing Black Lives Matter. As the author has indicated, the idea of Black Lives Matter makes a lot of whites uncomfortable because it is to address some racial disparities in our society.

Whites are uncomfortable because whenever race is talked about, it ultimately boils down to how racial minorities struggle daily against those bigoted, oppressive whites. I already made a thread explaining this.

I can see how blacks are upset by the disproportionate use of force against them by the police; they genuinely do feel like they're under attack by the people whose job is to protect them. But considering how many Black Americans there are it's a really, really, really small problem; it is only seen as big because it's sensationalised by the media, and widespread coverage of these incidents causes blacks everywhere to feel afraid for their lives or those of their loved ones.
Passing new legislation that puts new restrictions on the police will undermine decades of reduction in the crime rate; we could literally see a return to 1990s-level crime by the mid-2020s, and there's some evidence to suggest that this is already starting. If we "retrain" officers like Hillary Clinton suggested last night, it might prevent a few extreme incidents, but when confronted by violent young black men many officers will still make the decision to shoot, and the number of black deaths at the hands of cops will remain disproportionately high. Alternately, the perception that the police won't shoot will encourage more young black men to violently confront the police, since they'll have less to lose from doing so.
The only good solution is to let the police do their jobs, quietly punish those few officers whose conduct towards minorities is abhorrent, and don't report incidents like what happened to Michael Brown. Let the flames that fuel BLM die down.

You said: "Whites are uncomfortable because whenever race is talked about, it ultimately boils down to how racial minorities struggle daily against those bigoted, oppressive whites. I already made a thread explaining this."

Actually the sentiments you mentioned are your sentiments so I hardly think you speak for all whites in this instance. you made a rant thread expressing your own feelings. I'm not sure about other whites but you are alone on that buddy. Speaking about threads I too made a thread regarding discussing racism. Part of the issue when discussing touchy subjects is an unwillingness to accept that race is a problem in society (based on your satirical-like comment above I take it you do not take it as a serious problem).

You said: "I can see how blacks are upset by the disproportionate use of force against them by the police; they genuinely do feel like they're under attack by the people whose job is to protect them. But considering how many Black Americans there are it's a really, really, really small problem; it is only seen as big because it's sensationalised by the media."

You do understand that police brutality did not happen yesterday. Police brutality has been going on since my grand-father's fathers time. Blacks discussing police brutality is a long discussion that extends decades not years. I also pointed this out to in another thread which of course gets overlooked. Speaking on sensationalism, how often does the media sensationalize blacks who commit crime and those that doesn't? Often times some whites ask "why aren't blacks speaking out against violence and looting?" Of course blacks speak out against crime and looting, hell they speak out against black on black violence all the time. But the media capitalizes off of negativity because negativity brings ratings because the media knows you want to watch chaos.

Having peace is boring because society is not entertained by peace, we are entertained by chaos. This is why we love boxing, Hockey, Basketball, Football, MMA. Society thrives off of violence and chaos. We bet on it. We go to the games and immerse ourselves in it. The news media is no different because it has an agenda of its own. If the media showed you something that was counter to the stereotypes you may hold against blacks you may watch a different station because often times people are more comfortable living with their racial biases than being challenged and proven wrong.

You said:

"Passing new legislation that puts new restrictions on the police will undermine decades of reduction in the crime rate; we could literally see a return to 1990s-level crime by the mid-2020s, and there's some evidence to suggest that this is already starting. If we "retrain" officers like Hillary Clinton suggested last night, it might prevent a few extreme incidents, but when confronted by violent young black men many officers will still make the decision to shoot, and the number of black deaths at the hands of cops will remain disproportionately high."

Speaking on the first sentence if you are insinuating that "stop and frisk" was successful it wasn't. It has proven unconstitutional and according to statistics, it had a failure rate of 90% Even when stop and frisk was taken away crime still declined, so I'm not sure how you think we will reach a spike in violent crimes. With respect to law enforcement protecting themselves I don't think anyone is arguing against cops protecting themselves. But to ensure transparency, society is asking for video cameras to monitor police activity to ensure fairness along with transparency. I, as a citizen want to make sure these police officers are doing their job correctly and without bias. Targeting the criminals of our society is one thing, but cops must understand we all are not criminals despite how we look.

You said:

"Alternately, the perception that the police won't shoot will encourage more young black men to violently confront the police, since they'll have less to lose from doing so."

This is an assumption. First let me correct you because in the above sentence, your statement presumes "young black men" are violent. Criminals are violent not young black men so let me correct you on that.

You said:

"The only good solution is to let the police do their jobs, quietly punish those few officers whose conduct towards minorities is abhorrent, and don't report incidents like what happened to Michael Brown. Let the flames that fuel BLM die down."

Right because we must be silent when punishing cops and tip toe around potential problems in departments across the country. I believe in rocking the boat and causing waves because when you make examples of officers who have violated society's trust, this will shake up any other officers who can potential be a problem who are prone to abuse their power.
kevin24018
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9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.
Not saying this is right or wrong, but if you don't believe this is the impression it gives a lot of people, then that's fine, everyone is free to think what they will.
FaustianJustice
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9/28/2016 11:23:56 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES.

Is that why white BLM protest members who wanted to show support were told to "go to the back"?

I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

The author continues regarding "color blindness":

"The problem with being "colorblind" " aside from the fact that we"re not really " is that it is really a white privilege to be able to ignore race. White people like me have the luxury of not paying attention to race " white or black. The reason is because whiteness is treated as the default in our society. Whiteness is not a problem for white people, because it blends into the cultural background.

Black people, on the other hand, don"t have the luxury of being "colorblind." They live in a culture which constantly reminds them of their Black-ness,

Then one should probably stop making movements that specifically highlight that.

BLM.
NAACP.
Black College.
Black History month.
The New Black Panther Party.
United Negro College fund.

which tells them in a million large and small ways that they are not as important as white people, that their lives actually do not matter as much as white lives. Which is why saying "Black Lives Matter" is so important."

The author continues:

"We need to say "Black Lives Matter," because we"re not living it. No one is questioning whether white lives matter or whether police lives matter."

"What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now"

Charming epithet heard echoing in the streets of New York during a similarly themed protest.

But the question of whether Black lives really matter is an open question in this country. Our institutions act like Black lives do not matter. The police act like Black lives do not matter when they shoot unarmed Black people with their arms in the air and when Blacks are shot at two and a half times the rate of whites, even when whites are armed. The judicial system acts like Black lives don"t matter when Blacks are given more severe sentences than whites who commit the same crimes and are turned into chattel in a for-profit prison-industrial complex.

And white people act like Black lives do not matter when we fail to raise the appropriate level of outrage at unjustified killings of Blacks or when we respond with platitudes like "All Lives Matter.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

The author ends the article with the following:

"Dear fellow white people, we are in the middle of a second Civil Rights Movement. Most of us white people idealize Martin Luther King, Jr. and we like to think that we would have been on his side of things during the Civil Rights era. But the fact is that the majority of the American public did not support the Civil Rights movement while it was happening and only came to see King as a hero after he was killed.

The Civil Rights movement was unpopular among most whites when it was happening. It was unpopular because it made white people deeply uncomfortable. Today, the Black Lives Matter movement makes us uncomfortable, too. In forty years we will look back on this second Civil Rights movement and have to ask ourselves whether we were on the right side of history. If we want to be on the right side of history this time, we have to make ourselves uncomfortable. There is no comfortable way to change. And the change can start with saying this simple but powerful phrase: Black Lives Matter."

See reference: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would like to think that the author has a compelling argument regarding the hashtag #AllLivesMatter. In reality All lives do not matter and that, instead of trying to counter the protest of blacks wanting justice and fair treatment, often times they want to drown out the rhetoric of the BLM for their own. It is hard to take such a movement seriously if they're main focus is the BLM. If ALM (#AllLivesMatter) truly agree with police reform/transparency, fair treatment for persons of color then I do not see why ALM has to distinguish itself as an umbrella term.

Because the term in of itself is a highlight to race, and the author wonders why people are concerned about a highlight to race.
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Fernyx
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9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.
Hiu
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9/28/2016 7:53:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 11:23:56 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES.

Is that why white BLM protest members who wanted to show support were told to "go to the back"?

I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

The author continues regarding "color blindness":

"The problem with being "colorblind" " aside from the fact that we"re not really " is that it is really a white privilege to be able to ignore race. White people like me have the luxury of not paying attention to race " white or black. The reason is because whiteness is treated as the default in our society. Whiteness is not a problem for white people, because it blends into the cultural background.

Black people, on the other hand, don"t have the luxury of being "colorblind." They live in a culture which constantly reminds them of their Black-ness,

Then one should probably stop making movements that specifically highlight that.

BLM.
NAACP.
Black College.
Black History month.
The New Black Panther Party.
United Negro College fund.

which tells them in a million large and small ways that they are not as important as white people, that their lives actually do not matter as much as white lives. Which is why saying "Black Lives Matter" is so important."

The author continues:

"We need to say "Black Lives Matter," because we"re not living it. No one is questioning whether white lives matter or whether police lives matter."

"What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now"

Charming epithet heard echoing in the streets of New York during a similarly themed protest.

But the question of whether Black lives really matter is an open question in this country. Our institutions act like Black lives do not matter. The police act like Black lives do not matter when they shoot unarmed Black people with their arms in the air and when Blacks are shot at two and a half times the rate of whites, even when whites are armed. The judicial system acts like Black lives don"t matter when Blacks are given more severe sentences than whites who commit the same crimes and are turned into chattel in a for-profit prison-industrial complex.

And white people act like Black lives do not matter when we fail to raise the appropriate level of outrage at unjustified killings of Blacks or when we respond with platitudes like "All Lives Matter.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

The author ends the article with the following:

"Dear fellow white people, we are in the middle of a second Civil Rights Movement. Most of us white people idealize Martin Luther King, Jr. and we like to think that we would have been on his side of things during the Civil Rights era. But the fact is that the majority of the American public did not support the Civil Rights movement while it was happening and only came to see King as a hero after he was killed.

The Civil Rights movement was unpopular among most whites when it was happening. It was unpopular because it made white people deeply uncomfortable. Today, the Black Lives Matter movement makes us uncomfortable, too. In forty years we will look back on this second Civil Rights movement and have to ask ourselves whether we were on the right side of history. If we want to be on the right side of history this time, we have to make ourselves uncomfortable. There is no comfortable way to change. And the change can start with saying this simple but powerful phrase: Black Lives Matter."

See reference: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would like to think that the author has a compelling argument regarding the hashtag #AllLivesMatter. In reality All lives do not matter and that, instead of trying to counter the protest of blacks wanting justice and fair treatment, often times they want to drown out the rhetoric of the BLM for their own. It is hard to take such a movement seriously if they're main focus is the BLM. If ALM (#AllLivesMatter) truly agree with police reform/transparency, fair treatment for persons of color then I do not see why ALM has to distinguish itself as an umbrella term.

Because the term in of itself is a highlight to race, and the author wonders why people are concerned about a highlight to race.

Time to check you.....

BLM=An organization that is meant to highlight injustices that directly effect people of color as well as other people who've been wronged by police. This also includes whites (I'm sure you conveniently overlooked that BLM has also highlighted non-blacks who have been killed by cops). BTW whites as well as other people of color are also a part of BLM.

NAACP= Which evolved from the Niagara Movement, exists because of the southern state's disenfranchisement of African-Americans to which Mississippi's "new constitution" in 1890 spurred this movement into action. BTW whites are members of the NAACP as well.

Black College= Exist from the creation by a Quaker named Richard Humphreys who wanted to establish an institute for Colored Youth to train free blacks to become teachers. Due to the reality that blacks were not welcomed at prestigious "white colleges" as one author puts it: "until 1954 and the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Brown vs. Board of Education, which ended "separate but equal" school systems, HBCUs were the number 1 option for most blacks interested in attending college."

Black History Month=Which is American history, due to slavery and subsequent systemic racism, black Americans were stripped of their heritage. Oastricized for who they were/are blacks wanted to make a month that would bring blacks together to celebrate their contributions to this country. Since the U.S. does not put a spotlight on black contributions, blacks have used this month, (along with juneteenth) to recognize the struggles and success of black Americans.

The New Black Panther Party=An extreme black nationalist group that does not have the support of the old (and living) black panthers. The original black panthers message is different than the ones who call themselves "The New Black Panthers."

(I'll continue in next post)
Hiu
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9/28/2016 8:01:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 11:23:56 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES.

Is that why white BLM protest members who wanted to show support were told to "go to the back"?

I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

The author continues regarding "color blindness":

"The problem with being "colorblind" " aside from the fact that we"re not really " is that it is really a white privilege to be able to ignore race. White people like me have the luxury of not paying attention to race " white or black. The reason is because whiteness is treated as the default in our society. Whiteness is not a problem for white people, because it blends into the cultural background.

Black people, on the other hand, don"t have the luxury of being "colorblind." They live in a culture which constantly reminds them of their Black-ness,

Then one should probably stop making movements that specifically highlight that.

BLM.
NAACP.
Black College.
Black History month.
The New Black Panther Party.
United Negro College fund.

which tells them in a million large and small ways that they are not as important as white people, that their lives actually do not matter as much as white lives. Which is why saying "Black Lives Matter" is so important."

The author continues:

"We need to say "Black Lives Matter," because we"re not living it. No one is questioning whether white lives matter or whether police lives matter."

"What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now"

Charming epithet heard echoing in the streets of New York during a similarly themed protest.

But the question of whether Black lives really matter is an open question in this country. Our institutions act like Black lives do not matter. The police act like Black lives do not matter when they shoot unarmed Black people with their arms in the air and when Blacks are shot at two and a half times the rate of whites, even when whites are armed. The judicial system acts like Black lives don"t matter when Blacks are given more severe sentences than whites who commit the same crimes and are turned into chattel in a for-profit prison-industrial complex.

And white people act like Black lives do not matter when we fail to raise the appropriate level of outrage at unjustified killings of Blacks or when we respond with platitudes like "All Lives Matter.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

The author ends the article with the following:

"Dear fellow white people, we are in the middle of a second Civil Rights Movement. Most of us white people idealize Martin Luther King, Jr. and we like to think that we would have been on his side of things during the Civil Rights era. But the fact is that the majority of the American public did not support the Civil Rights movement while it was happening and only came to see King as a hero after he was killed.

The Civil Rights movement was unpopular among most whites when it was happening. It was unpopular because it made white people deeply uncomfortable. Today, the Black Lives Matter movement makes us uncomfortable, too. In forty years we will look back on this second Civil Rights movement and have to ask ourselves whether we were on the right side of history. If we want to be on the right side of history this time, we have to make ourselves uncomfortable. There is no comfortable way to change. And the change can start with saying this simple but powerful phrase: Black Lives Matter."

See reference: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would like to think that the author has a compelling argument regarding the hashtag #AllLivesMatter. In reality All lives do not matter and that, instead of trying to counter the protest of blacks wanting justice and fair treatment, often times they want to drown out the rhetoric of the BLM for their own. It is hard to take such a movement seriously if they're main focus is the BLM. If ALM (#AllLivesMatter) truly agree with police reform/transparency, fair treatment for persons of color then I do not see why ALM has to distinguish itself as an umbrella term.

Because the term in of itself is a highlight to race, and the author wonders why people are concerned about a highlight to race.

(Continue)

United Negro College fund="In an effort to reflect the growing diversity of people of color in colleges and universities, the United Negro College Fund has rebranded itself as the UNCF, using only the acronym for the organization"s name rather than the full words. While continuing to support African American students, it now helps fund Native American, Latino, and Asian American underrepresented scholars. Recently the UNCF has begun the Institute for Capacity Building, a competitive grants-awarding program that assists smaller colleges and universities in reaching a wider network of donor support." Not to mention FDR also supported UNCF as well.

You said: "Is that why white BLM protest members who wanted to show support were told to "go to the back?"

Never heard of it. Either you have video or an unbiased media outlet source to prove this or otherwise you're merely conjuring stuff up.

You said:"What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now"

Charming epithet heard echoing in the streets of New York during a similarly themed protest."

Show me an unbiased source or otherwise you're just conjuring stuff up.

You said: "Because the term in of itself is a highlight to race, and the author wonders why people are concerned about a highlight to race."

As I've said in numerous BLM threads, BLM stands for justice for blacks as well and the equal treatment by cops. BLM wants transparency when it comes to policing citizens. As the white author in the link said, the operative word is "black."
Hiu
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9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.
FaustianJustice
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9/28/2016 11:23:40 PM
Posted: 2 months ago

(Continue)

United Negro College fund="In an effort to reflect the growing diversity of people of color in colleges and universities, the United Negro College Fund has rebranded itself as the UNCF, using only the acronym for the organization"s name rather than the full words. While continuing to support African American students, it now helps fund Native American, Latino, and Asian American underrepresented scholars. Recently the UNCF has begun the Institute for Capacity Building, a competitive grants-awarding program that assists smaller colleges and universities in reaching a wider network of donor support." Not to mention FDR also supported UNCF as well.

You said: "Is that why white BLM protest members who wanted to show support were told to "go to the back?"

Never heard of it. Either you have video or an unbiased media outlet source to prove this or otherwise you're merely conjuring stuff up.

http://www.phillyvoice.com...

Google makes people quite the magician.

You said:"What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now"

Charming epithet heard echoing in the streets of New York during a similarly themed protest."

Show me an unbiased source or otherwise you're just conjuring stuff up.
https://www.youtube.com...

http://www.msnbc.com...

I must be a damn sorcerer.

You said: "Because the term in of itself is a highlight to race, and the author wonders why people are concerned about a highlight to race."

As I've said in numerous BLM threads, BLM stands for justice for blacks as well and the equal treatment by cops. BLM wants transparency when it comes to policing citizens.

BLM stands for "Black Lives Matter".

What you prefer to spin it as doesn't matter, the title says it all. If this was a protest against police brutality, or racists cops, I cannot fathom, at all, why you would name it something specific to a skin color.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Fernyx
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9/29/2016 1:57:01 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.

I'm not talking about decades, the problem is what is happening now. BLM is a fairly recent movement that started gaining traction around 2013-2014.
popculturepooka
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9/29/2016 2:43:07 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:01:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:41:54 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:02:08 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I think there's a pretty drastic difference between legally enforced segregation of whites and blacks and the disproportionate use of force against blacks by police (which can be explained by many factors other than racism).

But as the author indicates, it is not so much as segregation that is the issue today, the feelings that come about when discussing Black Lives Matter. As the author has indicated, the idea of Black Lives Matter makes a lot of whites uncomfortable because it is to address some racial disparities in our society.

Whites are uncomfortable because whenever race is talked about, it ultimately boils down to how racial minorities struggle daily against those bigoted, oppressive whites. I already made a thread explaining this.

I can see how blacks are upset by the disproportionate use of force against them by the police; they genuinely do feel like they're under attack by the people whose job is to protect them. But considering how many Black Americans there are it's a really, really, really small problem; it is only seen as big because it's sensationalised by the media, and widespread coverage of these incidents causes blacks everywhere to feel afraid for their lives or those of their loved ones.

Lol, you're so out of touch with black americans. This is part of the problem. YOu do realize that this has been a big problem and a constant complaint in black America for DECADES right? This sort of anxiety about police didn't just come up when the media started "sensationalizing" it; it has been there for literally decades. Did your parents tell you how to act around cops in order to not get beat for something minor? Mines did. So did ALL of my black friends' parents. Have you seen police brutality in person? I have and so have MOST of my black friends. All this "sensationalization" is only uncovering for the general populace a problem that's been here for decades. I can understand how if one doesn't have the understanding of the problem and just how longstanding it is, one would be bewildered by how upset many black americans are. But people not understanding just how long this has been an issue isn't the same as the issue not existing before they became aware.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
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9/29/2016 2:44:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 1:57:01 AM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.

I'm not talking about decades, the problem is what is happening now. BLM is a fairly recent movement that started gaining traction around 2013-2014.

TIL I learned history has nothing to do with the present.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
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9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

Not saying this is right or wrong, but if you don't believe this is the impression it gives a lot of people, then that's fine, everyone is free to think what they will.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
kevin24018
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9/29/2016 3:01:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

How many liberal elitist jump on the cancer bandwagon only after one of their family members is affected? Are you saying whites are responsible for cancer too? See apples and oranges

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

again whites are to blame for the rainforests? can you see the forest for the trees?
popculturepooka
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9/29/2016 3:09:06 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:01:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

How many liberal elitist jump on the cancer bandwagon only after one of their family members is affected? Are you saying whites are responsible for cancer too? See apples and oranges

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

again whites are to blame for the rainforests? can you see the forest for the trees?

Wow. I really didn't know someone could miss a point this bad. lol

Lord.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
kevin24018
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9/29/2016 3:17:50 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:09:06 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:01:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

How many liberal elitist jump on the cancer bandwagon only after one of their family members is affected? Are you saying whites are responsible for cancer too? See apples and oranges

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

again whites are to blame for the rainforests? can you see the forest for the trees?

Wow. I really didn't know someone could miss a point this bad. lol

Lord.
yeah I'm not sure how you did, maybe someone will take the time and explain it to you.
kevin24018
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9/29/2016 3:48:48 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:09:06 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:01:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

How many liberal elitist jump on the cancer bandwagon only after one of their family members is affected? Are you saying whites are responsible for cancer too? See apples and oranges

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

again whites are to blame for the rainforests? can you see the forest for the trees?

Wow. I really didn't know someone could miss a point this bad. lol

Lord.

since I have some time now
Cancer isn't generally man created, racism is
Cancer isn't racist
accusing someone of being cancer is silly, generally speaking
Cancer has been around before racism
People don't riot because someone dies of cancer
cancer is a medical condition, racism is a mental condition
cancer is typically covered by health insurance, racism is not
cancer generally isn't a choice, racism is
some cancer can be surgically removed, racism can't
there are medications to treat cancer, there aren't any for racism

all lives matter because diseases are treated the same way, unless you have lots of money and can afford the best treatment, but that has nothing to do with race.

I can do the trees next if you like, or did I make the point clear enough, even for someone like you?
popculturepooka
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9/29/2016 3:58:27 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:48:48 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:09:06 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:01:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

How many liberal elitist jump on the cancer bandwagon only after one of their family members is affected? Are you saying whites are responsible for cancer too? See apples and oranges

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

again whites are to blame for the rainforests? can you see the forest for the trees?

Wow. I really didn't know someone could miss a point this bad. lol

Lord.

since I have some time now
Cancer isn't generally man created, racism is
Cancer isn't racist
accusing someone of being cancer is silly, generally speaking
Cancer has been around before racism
People don't riot because someone dies of cancer
cancer is a medical condition, racism is a mental condition
cancer is typically covered by health insurance, racism is not
cancer generally isn't a choice, racism is
some cancer can be surgically removed, racism can't
there are medications to treat cancer, there aren't any for racism


Way to focus on the irrelevant points of the analogy lol. The relevant point of analogy is that specific attention is being focused on a specific issue, but that doesn't imply that other specific issues aren't worth attention or that focusing on one specific issue is "excluding" all other issues.

It'd be silly to say at a breast cancer rally they aren't being inclusive enough of all other cancers, and that people ought to feel "excluded" because they don't have breast cancer.

all lives matter because diseases are treated the same way, unless you have lots of money and can afford the best treatment, but that has nothing to do with race.


All diseases aren't treated the same way. lol wth are you talking about? Specific diseases are treated in different ways. Cancer is not treated the same way as ebola.

I can do the trees next if you like, or did I make the point clear enough, even for someone like you?

lmao
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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9/29/2016 4:13:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 3:58:27 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:48:48 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:09:06 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 3:01:12 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:52:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:59 AM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES. I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

I'm not sure what a stronger word than ignorant is but that's what would fit that paragraph. Blue lives include all races and sexes.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

Doesn't make me uncomfortable, it actually makes me feel I'm not included, therefore not my problem. All Lives Matter makes us all the same, in the same boat, as one. All Lives Matter makes it personal to everyone, because most people believe their own lives matter which is included in "all" so it makes them think of themselves and all. Black only speaks to black people, it's about them they aren't including anyone else, must be their problem.

Do you feel the same way about breast cancer? They don't include all cancers, so you feel excluded?

How many liberal elitist jump on the cancer bandwagon only after one of their family members is affected? Are you saying whites are responsible for cancer too? See apples and oranges

Or how about rainforests? People say save the rainforests, does it make you feel that they aren't properly taking into account all the other types of forests?

again whites are to blame for the rainforests? can you see the forest for the trees?

Wow. I really didn't know someone could miss a point this bad. lol

Lord.

since I have some time now
Cancer isn't generally man created, racism is
Cancer isn't racist
accusing someone of being cancer is silly, generally speaking
Cancer has been around before racism
People don't riot because someone dies of cancer
cancer is a medical condition, racism is a mental condition
cancer is typically covered by health insurance, racism is not
cancer generally isn't a choice, racism is
some cancer can be surgically removed, racism can't
there are medications to treat cancer, there aren't any for racism


Way to focus on the irrelevant points of the analogy lol. The relevant point of analogy is that specific attention is being focused on a specific issue, but that doesn't imply that other specific issues aren't worth attention or that focusing on one specific issue is "excluding" all other issues.

It'd be silly to say at a breast cancer rally they aren't being inclusive enough of all other cancers, and that people ought to feel "excluded" because they don't have breast cancer.

all lives matter because diseases are treated the same way, unless you have lots of money and can afford the best treatment, but that has nothing to do with race.


All diseases aren't treated the same way. lol wth are you talking about? Specific diseases are treated in different ways. Cancer is not treated the same way as ebola.

I can do the trees next if you like, or did I make the point clear enough, even for someone like you?

lmao

the analogy is irrelevant is the problem apples and oranges, yes I meant diseases are treated and the patients are treated the same way when they have the same illness regardless of race.
do you or know anyone who randomly donates or is involved with cancer research or treatment who hasn't been affected by it? Most don't, unless it directly affects them, that's why they directly ask people for donations, hold fund raisers etc. This method directly involves and includes those who are not otherwise directly affected. Why is there so much rebuff and lack of progress made by blm outside the black community? It pretty much speaks for itself.
Whatever issues are important to you are mostly because they have had a direct impact on you, that's human nature, if you want help from others who are not impacted you need to include and involve them, not alienate, how could it be otherwise?
Fernyx
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9/29/2016 4:45:41 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 2:44:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 1:57:01 AM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.

I'm not talking about decades, the problem is what is happening now. BLM is a fairly recent movement that started gaining traction around 2013-2014.

TIL I learned history has nothing to do with the present.

But the problem isn't things resolved in the past,it is problems in the present.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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9/29/2016 7:51:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 4:45:41 PM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:44:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 1:57:01 AM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.

I'm not talking about decades, the problem is what is happening now. BLM is a fairly recent movement that started gaining traction around 2013-2014.

TIL I learned history has nothing to do with the present.

But the problem isn't things resolved in the past,it is problems in the present.

The problem is they weren't resolved in the past which creates problems in the present.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
kevin24018
Posts: 1,952
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9/29/2016 8:51:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 7:51:39 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 4:45:41 PM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:44:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 1:57:01 AM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.

I'm not talking about decades, the problem is what is happening now. BLM is a fairly recent movement that started gaining traction around 2013-2014.

TIL I learned history has nothing to do with the present.

But the problem isn't things resolved in the past,it is problems in the present.

The problem is they weren't resolved in the past which creates problems in the present.

seriously, that's exactly what he said, you just reworded it, so you know what caused it, so what, how does that change what needs to be done now? look to the past all you want, don't see how that helps, you are looking so far back, none of us were there yet too many are willing to cling to it, at some point you must move on and forward, that's all that really matters isn't it?
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,168
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9/29/2016 10:15:51 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:

Considering the distrust and disregard for the validity and weight of statements made by Black Lives Matter held around here, I would put it in my counterproductive category.

Any organization with a better track record that is working towards illuminating issues so that we may address, confront, and address them would be labeled under my "productive" category regardless of its opinion on BLM.

All lives matter is a better name. It doesn't exclude other minorities, and carries more weight with issues like the Police Brutality that obviously affects all shapes, sizes, and colors but still leaves room for racial inequality. I don't personally know what they are about, nor do I care to as productive activity for me entails researching reliable information which I generally retrieve from databases and news articles.

Sorry I can't be of more help to you. The reason I don't like Black Lives Matter is their manipulation, inaccurate information, poor presentation, and the reputation for polarization, and anger I associate with the name. I may be wrong for this, but I do blame BLM and its practices for some of the thoughtless violence in America today. A new name addressing the same issues in a better way, or at least the hindrance of BLM would be fine by me. I believe they worked better when they were smaller by promoting issues and bringing them to light but the organization doesn't have the principle to go about helping to fix anything. Now that people know, I pray its days are numbered as it has outlived its purpose, or that significant reform is on the horizon.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Fernyx
Posts: 333
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9/30/2016 2:16:34 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 7:51:39 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 4:45:41 PM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/29/2016 2:44:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/29/2016 1:57:01 AM, Fernyx wrote:
At 9/28/2016 8:42:47 PM, Hiu wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:54:17 PM, Fernyx wrote:
I could just as easily say Black Lives Matter is counter productive for taking the focus off police brutality and focusing on racism, which there is still little evidence for.

If you look at the history of the black community and law enforcement, you'll see that racism and police brutality have gone hand-in-hand for decades.

I'm not talking about decades, the problem is what is happening now. BLM is a fairly recent movement that started gaining traction around 2013-2014.

TIL I learned history has nothing to do with the present.

But the problem isn't things resolved in the past,it is problems in the present.

The problem is they weren't resolved in the past which creates problems in the present.

What are these issues, and how do they affect policing?
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,254
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9/30/2016 8:34:30 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 11:23:56 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 9/27/2016 11:49:30 PM, Hiu wrote:
Since the conversation of the hastag, #blacklivesmatter is trending, I figure I would give my perspective as a person of color, with regards to the concept of #alllivesmatter. Considering the advent of #blacklivesmatter I just have a few questions concerning the idea of what #AllLivesMatter truly means. My first question regarding this is, where was #AllLivesMatter when Rodney king was beaten? Where was #AllLivesMatter when Tamir Rice was killed? Where were the voices from #AllLivesMatter when Dylan Roof killed 9 people in a church? I would"ve given the whole movement #AllLivesMatter more credibility if it wasn"t a counter-protest to BLM but rather like BLM, became a grassroots movement for peace for ALL LIVES.

Is that why white BLM protest members who wanted to show support were told to "go to the back"?
Because while we appreciate the support in the end it is our fight. Those white protestors fully understood that.

I think in order to really create an understanding from where I'm coming from the following is an article written by I supposed a white author who wrote about the hashtag #AllLivesMatter, see the following:

"Many of the people saying "All Lives Matter" also are fond of saying "Blue Lives Matter." If you find that the statement "Black Lives Matter" bothers you, but not "Blue Lives Matter," then the operative word is "Black". That should tell us something. There"s something deeply discomfiting about the word "Black." I think it"s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn"t matter."

The author continues regarding "color blindness":

"The problem with being "colorblind" " aside from the fact that we"re not really " is that it is really a white privilege to be able to ignore race. White people like me have the luxury of not paying attention to race " white or black. The reason is because whiteness is treated as the default in our society. Whiteness is not a problem for white people, because it blends into the cultural background.

Black people, on the other hand, don"t have the luxury of being "colorblind." They live in a culture which constantly reminds them of their Black-ness,

Then one should probably stop making movements that specifically highlight that.

BLM.
NAACP.
Black College.
Black History month.
The New Black Panther Party.
United Negro College fund.
We only made those clubs because we were excluded from the white ones lmao. And all of those, with maybe the exception NBPP, who even black people don't like, are unsegregated.

which tells them in a million large and small ways that they are not as important as white people, that their lives actually do not matter as much as white lives. Which is why saying "Black Lives Matter" is so important."

The author continues:

"We need to say "Black Lives Matter," because we"re not living it. No one is questioning whether white lives matter or whether police lives matter."

"What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now"

Charming epithet heard echoing in the streets of New York during a similarly themed protest.
People are just frustrated. If they really wanted dead cops, there would be way more dead cops.

But the question of whether Black lives really matter is an open question in this country. Our institutions act like Black lives do not matter. The police act like Black lives do not matter when they shoot unarmed Black people with their arms in the air and when Blacks are shot at two and a half times the rate of whites, even when whites are armed. The judicial system acts like Black lives don"t matter when Blacks are given more severe sentences than whites who commit the same crimes and are turned into chattel in a for-profit prison-industrial complex.

And white people act like Black lives do not matter when we fail to raise the appropriate level of outrage at unjustified killings of Blacks or when we respond with platitudes like "All Lives Matter.

But we still say it. We say it because "All Lives Matter" lets us get back to feeling comfortable. "Black Lives Matter" makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because it reminds us that race exists. It reminds us that our experience as white people is very different from the experience of Black people in this country. It reminds us that racism is alive and well in the United States of America."

The author ends the article with the following:

"Dear fellow white people, we are in the middle of a second Civil Rights Movement. Most of us white people idealize Martin Luther King, Jr. and we like to think that we would have been on his side of things during the Civil Rights era. But the fact is that the majority of the American public did not support the Civil Rights movement while it was happening and only came to see King as a hero after he was killed.

The Civil Rights movement was unpopular among most whites when it was happening. It was unpopular because it made white people deeply uncomfortable. Today, the Black Lives Matter movement makes us uncomfortable, too. In forty years we will look back on this second Civil Rights movement and have to ask ourselves whether we were on the right side of history. If we want to be on the right side of history this time, we have to make ourselves uncomfortable. There is no comfortable way to change. And the change can start with saying this simple but powerful phrase: Black Lives Matter."

See reference: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would like to think that the author has a compelling argument regarding the hashtag #AllLivesMatter. In reality All lives do not matter and that, instead of trying to counter the protest of blacks wanting justice and fair treatment, often times they want to drown out the rhetoric of the BLM for their own. It is hard to take such a movement seriously if they're main focus is the BLM. If ALM (#AllLivesMatter) truly agree with police reform/transparency, fair treatment for persons of color then I do not see why ALM has to distinguish itself as an umbrella term.

Because the term in of itself is a highlight to race, and the author wonders why people are concerned about a highlight to race.

Not a highlight. Just a focus.
#BlackLivesMatter