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There is No Gender Wage Gap

MVargas
Posts: 4
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10/6/2016 3:46:43 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Modern day feminists claim that women make roughly 79 cents for every dollar a man makes and that this is because women are paid different wages than men for the same job. This is simply not true for starters because it is ILLEGAL to pay two people different wages for the same job, that just does not happen. The statistics that claimed the gap was real did not put into account the fact that these women work different hours compared to men, the life choices women make such as becoming mothers and the fact that women take more vacation days than men. When all of these factors are calculated the wage gap ceases to exist.
These women are being manipulated by the government and by modern day feminists that use statistics in their favor to make women think they are being oppressed. The government leaves out these facts in statistics to gain political support and make women believe that the government needs to be more interactive in the economy. Newspapers even abuse these statistics to gain viewership but you will never see a serious economic newspaper with a headline claiming that the wage gap is anything but a farce.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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10/6/2016 3:50:40 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/6/2016 3:46:43 PM, MVargas wrote:
Modern day feminists claim that women make roughly 79 cents for every dollar a man makes and that this is because women are paid different wages than men for the same job. This is simply not true for starters because it is ILLEGAL to pay two people different wages for the same job, that just does not happen. The statistics that claimed the gap was real did not put into account the fact that these women work different hours compared to men, the life choices women make such as becoming mothers and the fact that women take more vacation days than men. When all of these factors are calculated the wage gap ceases to exist.
These women are being manipulated by the government and by modern day feminists that use statistics in their favor to make women think they are being oppressed. The government leaves out these facts in statistics to gain political support and make women believe that the government needs to be more interactive in the economy. Newspapers even abuse these statistics to gain viewership but you will never see a serious economic newspaper with a headline claiming that the wage gap is anything but a farce.

there's lots of good evidence that the wage gap is false, if it were true they would hire more women because they could pay them less, it would make good financial sense.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/6/2016 4:56:42 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...

I've seen that federalist one before. Historically it was true. The shifting trends in the workforce are mitigating it with all issues. That's why I say I'm not 100% sure how relevant it still is but it is definitely getting better (also starting pay, fields people are going in, etc... also play a factor in the stats).
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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10/6/2016 8:14:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:56:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...

I've seen that federalist one before. Historically it was true. The shifting trends in the workforce are mitigating it with all issues. That's why I say I'm not 100% sure how relevant it still is but it is definitely getting better (also starting pay, fields people are going in, etc... also play a factor in the stats).

if this is an issue at all it's at the very top, top management, most business the starting wage for a given position is known, raises typically given across the board (if any) I have never received an increase that everyone else in my area of work also didn't receive, so if we are talking about jobs that pay $500k or more, sorry I just don't care, us worker bees are all treated the same, no gap.
MVargas
Posts: 4
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10/6/2016 8:26:38 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:56:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...

I've seen that federalist one before. Historically it was true. The shifting trends in the workforce are mitigating it with all issues. That's why I say I'm not 100% sure how relevant it still is but it is definitely getting better (also starting pay, fields people are going in, etc... also play a factor in the stats).

To be clear if you look at my post I acknowledge how these groups already claim there is a wage gap however they use the statistics incorrectly in their favor to make it look like women are strictly paid differently than men. The point I am making is that these women make the same rates as men, they just work different hours and such which is not due to employers being unfair to these women.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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10/6/2016 8:34:18 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 8:26:38 PM, MVargas wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:56:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...

I've seen that federalist one before. Historically it was true. The shifting trends in the workforce are mitigating it with all issues. That's why I say I'm not 100% sure how relevant it still is but it is definitely getting better (also starting pay, fields people are going in, etc... also play a factor in the stats).

To be clear if you look at my post I acknowledge how these groups already claim there is a wage gap however they use the statistics incorrectly in their favor to make it look like women are strictly paid differently than men. The point I am making is that these women make the same rates as men, they just work different hours and such which is not due to employers being unfair to these women.

yup I agree, have seen many good arguments that prove exactly that, if a woman is getting paid 900k a year and a man earn 1.2k sorry don't care.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/6/2016 8:48:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 8:26:38 PM, MVargas wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:56:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...

I've seen that federalist one before. Historically it was true. The shifting trends in the workforce are mitigating it with all issues. That's why I say I'm not 100% sure how relevant it still is but it is definitely getting better (also starting pay, fields people are going in, etc... also play a factor in the stats).

To be clear if you look at my post I acknowledge how these groups already claim there is a wage gap however they use the statistics incorrectly in their favor to make it look like women are strictly paid differently than men. The point I am making is that these women make the same rates as men, they just work different hours and such which is not due to employers being unfair to these women.

Sounds like, although phrased slightly differently, to use a word I've come to abhor... a consensus.
MVargas
Posts: 4
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10/6/2016 11:45:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 8:48:20 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 8:26:38 PM, MVargas wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:56:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:29:34 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

if there is in fact a difference, it doesn't mean it's wrong, many of the arguments fail to account for hours worked, time taken off, maternity leave and a variety of other factors affecting productivity, so whatever "gap" there maybe is probably very rare and due to an individual's personal bias. but as a whole it doesn't appear to be real, check out counters to the video
http://thefederalist.com...

I've seen that federalist one before. Historically it was true. The shifting trends in the workforce are mitigating it with all issues. That's why I say I'm not 100% sure how relevant it still is but it is definitely getting better (also starting pay, fields people are going in, etc... also play a factor in the stats).

To be clear if you look at my post I acknowledge how these groups already claim there is a wage gap however they use the statistics incorrectly in their favor to make it look like women are strictly paid differently than men. The point I am making is that these women make the same rates as men, they just work different hours and such which is not due to employers being unfair to these women.

Sounds like, although phrased slightly differently, to use a word I've come to abhor... a consensus.

I was hoping someone with a different view and valid points to counteract my view would come forward but it seems that is not the case as of right now. You would think that since this is discussed in polls, debates, and some colleges that more people would be posting against it. There is still time though.
Archaholic
Posts: 251
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10/7/2016 8:52:15 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Statistics show us there is a gender wage gap, so this is true and undeniable. I think the creator of this topic should make clear this point. What is not true are the conclusions people (specially feminists and pro-feminism) make from this information.

Anyway, I agree with you all when you say this wage gap issue is explainable, and kind of unavoidable. But, we've got to understand we all diserve the same opportunities, being either man or woman. I really wouldn't like more women to put their maternity off just in order to be better paid. That would have terrible consequences on societies, as it is actually happening in several developed countries.

So, the gender wage gap is real, and if we don't address it as soon as possible, the birth rate will drop severely.

Best Regards.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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10/8/2016 10:14:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

"Median hourly earnings". This is called a change of methodology, which has different results.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Nac
Posts: 326
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10/9/2016 11:48:49 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

I think we need to make sure we are accurately defining our terms. The Pew article you linked to used "wage gap" to refer to an aggregate earnings difference, while, from what I understand, the other side of the argument uses the term to mean a difference in earnings caused by discrimination.

Your article addresses this controversy in this paragraph:

"The remaining gaps not explained by these concrete factors are often attributed, at least in part, to discrimination. Blau and Kahn point out, however, that there are both portions of this "unmeasured" difference that could be due to factors other than discrimination (e.g., gender differences in behaviors like risk aversion or negotiation) as well as portions of the "measured" difference that may in fact be due to discrimination (e.g., a woman or minority not entering a high-paying STEM field because of experiences that may be rooted in prejudice, such as greater encouragement for men than women to pursue these studies)."

The claim I would make is that the wage gap, as an aggregate earnings difference, has its roots in the actions of individuals, and that gender has little to do with it.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/9/2016 1:46:58 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 11:48:49 AM, Nac wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

I think we need to make sure we are accurately defining our terms. The Pew article you linked to used "wage gap" to refer to an aggregate earnings difference, while, from what I understand, the other side of the argument uses the term to mean a difference in earnings caused by discrimination.

Your article addresses this controversy in this paragraph:

"The remaining gaps not explained by these concrete factors are often attributed, at least in part, to discrimination. Blau and Kahn point out, however, that there are both portions of this "unmeasured" difference that could be due to factors other than discrimination (e.g., gender differences in behaviors like risk aversion or negotiation) as well as portions of the "measured" difference that may in fact be due to discrimination (e.g., a woman or minority not entering a high-paying STEM field because of experiences that may be rooted in prejudice, such as greater encouragement for men than women to pursue these studies)."

The claim I would make is that the wage gap, as an aggregate earnings difference, has its roots in the actions of individuals, and that gender has little to do with it.

Looks like the last paragraph I wrote was missed where it's stated 'it often comes down to the individual'.
Nac
Posts: 326
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10/9/2016 3:13:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 1:46:58 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/9/2016 11:48:49 AM, Nac wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

I think we need to make sure we are accurately defining our terms. The Pew article you linked to used "wage gap" to refer to an aggregate earnings difference, while, from what I understand, the other side of the argument uses the term to mean a difference in earnings caused by discrimination.

Your article addresses this controversy in this paragraph:

"The remaining gaps not explained by these concrete factors are often attributed, at least in part, to discrimination. Blau and Kahn point out, however, that there are both portions of this "unmeasured" difference that could be due to factors other than discrimination (e.g., gender differences in behaviors like risk aversion or negotiation) as well as portions of the "measured" difference that may in fact be due to discrimination (e.g., a woman or minority not entering a high-paying STEM field because of experiences that may be rooted in prejudice, such as greater encouragement for men than women to pursue these studies)."

The claim I would make is that the wage gap, as an aggregate earnings difference, has its roots in the actions of individuals, and that gender has little to do with it.

Looks like the last paragraph I wrote was missed where it's stated 'it often comes down to the individual'.

I wanted to be more specific. You did not discuss the definition used of the wage gap, you did not discuss actions, and you did not discuss gender's role in the wage gap. You also stated that it is a historical issue that is slowly being corrected, which I did not address.

I believe this puts a significant difference between your quote and my own. There are significant similarities, but I did not simply wish to copy your quote, if that is what you are implying.

As a second guess, perhaps you are confused by why I felt it necessary to respond to you in the first place. The answer to this is simple: I disagree with your summary of the issue. The wage gap has been used to describe both the gap itself and the assertion that it is the result of sexism. My understanding is that Pew uses the first definition, while the groups calling it a "myth" used the second definition. I wanted to try and clarify that.

Hopefully, this clears up any misconceptions.

Cheers.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/9/2016 3:22:47 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/9/2016 3:13:20 PM, Nac wrote:
At 10/9/2016 1:46:58 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/9/2016 11:48:49 AM, Nac wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:17:42 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Pew says there is, various women's groups say there is... Forbes and various business groups says it's a myth. So who's right and who's wrong?

Personally, often it comes down to the individual. More than likely it is a historical issue that is slowly correcting itself.

http://www.pewresearch.org...

I think we need to make sure we are accurately defining our terms. The Pew article you linked to used "wage gap" to refer to an aggregate earnings difference, while, from what I understand, the other side of the argument uses the term to mean a difference in earnings caused by discrimination.

Your article addresses this controversy in this paragraph:

"The remaining gaps not explained by these concrete factors are often attributed, at least in part, to discrimination. Blau and Kahn point out, however, that there are both portions of this "unmeasured" difference that could be due to factors other than discrimination (e.g., gender differences in behaviors like risk aversion or negotiation) as well as portions of the "measured" difference that may in fact be due to discrimination (e.g., a woman or minority not entering a high-paying STEM field because of experiences that may be rooted in prejudice, such as greater encouragement for men than women to pursue these studies)."

The claim I would make is that the wage gap, as an aggregate earnings difference, has its roots in the actions of individuals, and that gender has little to do with it.

Looks like the last paragraph I wrote was missed where it's stated 'it often comes down to the individual'.

I wanted to be more specific. You did not discuss the definition used of the wage gap, you did not discuss actions, and you did not discuss gender's role in the wage gap. You also stated that it is a historical issue that is slowly being corrected, which I did not address.

I believe this puts a significant difference between your quote and my own. There are significant similarities, but I did not simply wish to copy your quote, if that is what you are implying.

As a second guess, perhaps you are confused by why I felt it necessary to respond to you in the first place. The answer to this is simple: I disagree with your summary of the issue. The wage gap has been used to describe both the gap itself and the assertion that it is the result of sexism. My understanding is that Pew uses the first definition, while the groups calling it a "myth" used the second definition. I wanted to try and clarify that.

Hopefully, this clears up any misconceptions.

Cheers.

Fair enough. I just used pew as evidence from one side claiming there is a gender gap. My personal belief is historically there was, it is being corrected, and the current perception it still exists is mostly personal choice.
MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,395
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10/9/2016 4:06:28 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Just to be clear. There is an observable gender wage gap. It is nowhere near the figure of 77 cents to the dollar (A ratio which has increased to 80 cents to the dollar, so go women.) and is explainable. When we look at the data, there is about a 3-4% gap in wages, if we control for everything we can measure scientifically.

After this, we need to look at things we cannot really account for. Asking for wages, difference in personality, work ethic, gifts / prizes and yes, sexism in all its glory.

However, the conclusion most feminists make, is that because there's a gap there must be sexism. This is not true. Just because a gap is observable, does not mean a conclusion can be made. If you cannot reliably explain what this 3-4% wage gap is, then you cannot conclude there is sexism rampant in the system. There are certainly some business owners who may pay women less, and that likely account for a small part of the gap. But, in reality, we'll never know what causes it. This means that legislation in order to combat the gender wage gap is pointless, as no business will actually know what they are trying to reduce in the workplace.

Basically, your title is wrong, but you are right in what you say.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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10/10/2016 3:43:15 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/7/2016 8:52:15 PM, Archaholic wrote:
Statistics show us there is a gender wage gap, so this is true and undeniable. I think the creator of this topic should make clear this point. What is not true are the conclusions people (specially feminists and pro-feminism) make from this information.
Well, it isn't that women are being paid less for the same jobs, but that women make less money due to a number of factors. Including, but not limited to: less hours worked, more vacation time, maternity leave, and time taken off to help raise children. So it isn't a wage gap, as this implies a difference in hourly pay for the same job. There is a difference in money earned by men and women.
Anyway, I agree with you all when you say this wage gap issue is explainable, and kind of unavoidable. But, we've got to understand we all diserve the same opportunities, being either man or woman. I really wouldn't like more women to put their maternity off just in order to be better paid. That would have terrible consequences on societies, as it is actually happening in several developed countries.

So, the gender wage gap is real, and if we don't address it as soon as possible, the birth rate will drop severely.
There is really nothing that we can do about the fact that women need maternity leave. Or the fact that some need to take time off to raise their children. it can't be avoided. My guess is that there will always be a difference between money made by men and women.

Also, I don't think that the world would be worse off if the birth rate dropped for a bit. There are over 7.5 billion people on this planet, and it can only support 2 billion. Earth is overpopulated. It probably wouldn't hurt to ease up on reproduction for a while.
Best Regards.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Archaholic
Posts: 251
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10/10/2016 6:26:44 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 3:43:15 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 10/7/2016 8:52:15 PM, Archaholic wrote:
Statistics show us there is a gender wage gap, so this is true and undeniable. I think the creator of this topic should make clear this point. What is not true are the conclusions people (specially feminists and pro-feminism) make from this information.
Well, it isn't that women are being paid less for the same jobs, but that women make less money due to a number of factors. Including, but not limited to: less hours worked, more vacation time, maternity leave, and time taken off to help raise children. So it isn't a wage gap, as this implies a difference in hourly pay for the same job. There is a difference in money earned by men and women.
Anyway, I agree with you all when you say this wage gap issue is explainable, and kind of unavoidable. But, we've got to understand we all diserve the same opportunities, being either man or woman. I really wouldn't like more women to put their maternity off just in order to be better paid. That would have terrible consequences on societies, as it is actually happening in several developed countries.

So, the gender wage gap is real, and if we don't address it as soon as possible, the birth rate will drop severely.
There is really nothing that we can do about the fact that women need maternity leave. Or the fact that some need to take time off to raise their children. it can't be avoided. My guess is that there will always be a difference between money made by men and women.

Also, I don't think that the world would be worse off if the birth rate dropped for a bit. There are over 7.5 billion people on this planet, and it can only support 2 billion. Earth is overpopulated. It probably wouldn't hurt to ease up on reproduction for a while.
Best Regards.

The birth rate drop is not an issue? What are you talking about? Japan is, for instance, in trouble because of that.

The overpopulation is not a matter of developed countries, but of undeveloped ones.

By the way, aren"t you this guy who is proud to talk about his bisexuality? Have you get laid with a man yet? Hope you have not.

BR.
ANON_TacTiX
Posts: 460
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10/10/2016 9:43:35 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 6:26:44 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 10/10/2016 3:43:15 AM, ANON_TacTiX wrote:
At 10/7/2016 8:52:15 PM, Archaholic wrote:
Statistics show us there is a gender wage gap, so this is true and undeniable. I think the creator of this topic should make clear this point. What is not true are the conclusions people (specially feminists and pro-feminism) make from this information.
Well, it isn't that women are being paid less for the same jobs, but that women make less money due to a number of factors. Including, but not limited to: less hours worked, more vacation time, maternity leave, and time taken off to help raise children. So it isn't a wage gap, as this implies a difference in hourly pay for the same job. There is a difference in money earned by men and women.
Anyway, I agree with you all when you say this wage gap issue is explainable, and kind of unavoidable. But, we've got to understand we all diserve the same opportunities, being either man or woman. I really wouldn't like more women to put their maternity off just in order to be better paid. That would have terrible consequences on societies, as it is actually happening in several developed countries.

So, the gender wage gap is real, and if we don't address it as soon as possible, the birth rate will drop severely.
There is really nothing that we can do about the fact that women need maternity leave. Or the fact that some need to take time off to raise their children. it can't be avoided. My guess is that there will always be a difference between money made by men and women.

Also, I don't think that the world would be worse off if the birth rate dropped for a bit. There are over 7.5 billion people on this planet, and it can only support 2 billion. Earth is overpopulated. It probably wouldn't hurt to ease up on reproduction for a while.
Best Regards.

The birth rate drop is not an issue? What are you talking about? Japan is, for instance, in trouble because of that.
i'm talking about the human population as a whole. Japan is one country, and a small one at that. The human population could stand to slow down a bit.
The overpopulation is not a matter of developed countries, but of undeveloped ones.
I didn't say that developed countries were the problem, although it isn't like any of them are helping the problem.
By the way, aren"t you this guy who is proud to talk about his bisexuality? Have you get laid with a man yet? Hope you have not.
I take no huge pride in talking about my sexuality. I am just open about it, and I enjoy the topic of sexuality. Also, no I have not had sex yet, as I have not found a suitable person to start any kind of relationship with. And there is no problem with having intercourse with someone of the same sex. Now that I have answered your questions, I would like to get back on task, as this has nothing to do with the subject of the forum.
BR.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
RayOfWisdom
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10/14/2016 4:11:03 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 3:46:43 PM, MVargas wrote:
Modern day feminists claim that women make roughly 79 cents for every dollar a man makes and that this is because women are paid different wages than men for the same job. This is simply not true for starters because it is ILLEGAL to pay two people different wages for the same job, that just does not happen. The statistics that claimed the gap was real did not put into account the fact that these women work different hours compared to men, the life choices women make such as becoming mothers and the fact that women take more vacation days than men. When all of these factors are calculated the wage gap ceases to exist.
These women are being manipulated by the government and by modern day feminists that use statistics in their favor to make women think they are being oppressed. The government leaves out these facts in statistics to gain political support and make women believe that the government needs to be more interactive in the economy. Newspapers even abuse these statistics to gain viewership but you will never see a serious economic newspaper with a headline claiming that the wage gap is anything but a farce.

Excellent provocation and great argumentation.

You stated that the life choice that women make (maternity leave) is what determines their allegedly-deserved lesser pay. That's classically callous and misogynistic business sentiment at its finest. Why should a woman have to choose between raising a family and succeeding at work? Men do not have to make the same choice. Are you suggesting that unfair treatment of the genders is justified simply because women are the carriers in human pregnancy?

Also, the wage gap is real in a different sense. Women are offered lower starting salaries than men for the same positions that men hold. Check it out (http://www.forbes.com...)
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,207
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10/14/2016 5:44:08 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 4:11:03 PM, RayOfWisdom wrote:
At 10/6/2016 3:46:43 PM, MVargas wrote:
Modern day feminists claim that women make roughly 79 cents for every dollar a man makes and that this is because women are paid different wages than men for the same job. This is simply not true for starters because it is ILLEGAL to pay two people different wages for the same job, that just does not happen. The statistics that claimed the gap was real did not put into account the fact that these women work different hours compared to men, the life choices women make such as becoming mothers and the fact that women take more vacation days than men. When all of these factors are calculated the wage gap ceases to exist.
These women are being manipulated by the government and by modern day feminists that use statistics in their favor to make women think they are being oppressed. The government leaves out these facts in statistics to gain political support and make women believe that the government needs to be more interactive in the economy. Newspapers even abuse these statistics to gain viewership but you will never see a serious economic newspaper with a headline claiming that the wage gap is anything but a farce.

Excellent provocation and great argumentation.

You stated that the life choice that women make (maternity leave) is what determines their allegedly-deserved lesser pay. That's classically callous and misogynistic business sentiment at its finest. Why should a woman have to choose between raising a family and succeeding at work?

Because you can only do one at a time... at least with decent odds of success. Business sentiment by its nature cannot be misogynistic, business sentiment is about business. It doesn't have any care or concern to race, sex, creed, or color as long as the profit motive/quota is met.

Men do not have to make the same choice.

??? Men can't stay at home to raise the kid while the wife goes to work?
Or men -can't- make the same choice? ;)

Are you suggesting that unfair treatment of the genders is justified simply because women are the carriers in human pregnancy?

How is it unfair, exactly. If you are being paid to "work" and you are not "working" it would be categorically unfair to pay some one whom is not working vs those that are.

Also, the wage gap is real in a different sense. Women are offered lower starting salaries than men for the same positions that men hold. Check it out (http://www.forbes.com...)

"One bright spot in Hired"s study, for Kirkpatrick at least: younger women are asking for more money than men, and often getting it."

Negotiate for a better salary. Easy peesy. The hourly positions that I have been part of have a job class or pay code, there is no negotiation save for time with the organization, or (again) coded pay based on license-ship in my field. Simply put, you couldn't be paid less unless you asked too.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
kevin24018
Posts: 1,810
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10/14/2016 5:46:58 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 4:11:03 PM, RayOfWisdom wrote:
At 10/6/2016 3:46:43 PM, MVargas wrote:
Modern day feminists claim that women make roughly 79 cents for every dollar a man makes and that this is because women are paid different wages than men for the same job. This is simply not true for starters because it is ILLEGAL to pay two people different wages for the same job, that just does not happen. The statistics that claimed the gap was real did not put into account the fact that these women work different hours compared to men, the life choices women make such as becoming mothers and the fact that women take more vacation days than men. When all of these factors are calculated the wage gap ceases to exist.
These women are being manipulated by the government and by modern day feminists that use statistics in their favor to make women think they are being oppressed. The government leaves out these facts in statistics to gain political support and make women believe that the government needs to be more interactive in the economy. Newspapers even abuse these statistics to gain viewership but you will never see a serious economic newspaper with a headline claiming that the wage gap is anything but a farce.

Excellent provocation and great argumentation.

You stated that the life choice that women make (maternity leave) is what determines their allegedly-deserved lesser pay. That's classically callous and misogynistic business sentiment at its finest. Why should a woman have to choose between raising a family and succeeding at work? Men do not have to make the same choice. Are you suggesting that unfair treatment of the genders is justified simply because women are the carriers in human pregnancy?

Also, the wage gap is real in a different sense. Women are offered lower starting salaries than men for the same positions that men hold. Check it out (http://www.forbes.com...)

they don't have to have a family, so they don't have to choose, they make that choice of their free will. so the gap is women make more now?
"women are asking for more money than men, and often getting it.

Women with under two years of experience are asking for an average 2% more compensation than their male counterparts. What"s more, young women accepting jobs on Hired"s platform are receiving final offers that are 7% higher than those given to junior men."
Face-of-the-deep
Posts: 65
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10/14/2016 10:22:10 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 5:46:58 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/14/2016 4:11:03 PM, RayOfWisdom wrote:
At 10/6/2016 3:46:43 PM, MVargas wrote:
Modern day feminists claim that women make roughly 79 cents for every dollar a man makes and that this is because women are paid different wages than men for the same job. This is simply not true for starters because it is ILLEGAL to pay two people different wages for the same job, that just does not happen. The statistics that claimed the gap was real did not put into account the fact that these women work different hours compared to men, the life choices women make such as becoming mothers and the fact that women take more vacation days than men. When all of these factors are calculated the wage gap ceases to exist.
These women are being manipulated by the government and by modern day feminists that use statistics in their favor to make women think they are being oppressed. The government leaves out these facts in statistics to gain political support and make women believe that the government needs to be more interactive in the economy. Newspapers even abuse these statistics to gain viewership but you will never see a serious economic newspaper with a headline claiming that the wage gap is anything but a farce.

Excellent provocation and great argumentation.

You stated that the life choice that women make (maternity leave) is what determines their allegedly-deserved lesser pay. That's classically callous and misogynistic business sentiment at its finest. Why should a woman have to choose between raising a family and succeeding at work? Men do not have to make the same choice. Are you suggesting that unfair treatment of the genders is justified simply because women are the carriers in human pregnancy?

Also, the wage gap is real in a different sense. Women are offered lower starting salaries than men for the same positions that men hold. Check it out (http://www.forbes.com...)

they don't have to have a family, so they don't have to choose, they make that choice of their free will. so the gap is women make more now?
"women are asking for more money than men, and often getting it.

Women with under two years of experience are asking for an average 2% more compensation than their male counterparts. What"s more, young women accepting jobs on Hired"s platform are receiving final offers that are 7% higher than those given to junior men."

Speaking from an employer's mindset, employees are paid what the employer thinks they are worth. Their factors fit a comprehensive range of criteria such as (availability, dependability, leadership, etc.). Whether an employer is male, female, or any other mindset, the main attention is normally the bottom line. If I had say: 50 employees 25 male and 25 female and they all done the same quality and quantity of production, Let's say that the women were paid 20% less, I would be an idiot not to dismiss all of the men and replace them with women. It's normally all about the bottom line.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,171
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10/16/2016 12:15:50 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
There are many job fields that are staffed primarily by women. 80/20 ratio.
The job skills, education, etc. needed are primarily the same as other fields that are mostly men. The men in the male dominated job sector make more than the women in the women dominated sector.

One such field is social service, primary school education is another.
Due to the nurturing propensity of women, they are more likely to be attracted to social service jobs, (and early childhood education) than men.
Anyone employed in these fields make less money than employment that requires a similar level of education and job skill - not the actual job skills, but a similar level.
So yes, in that exact job site men and women make the same pay - no discrimination.
However, comparing job site to job site, the male dominated field gets paid more - again, regardless of the actual sex of a specific employee.

Another common situation:

Many organizations are 'good old boy', chauvinistic.
A family member worked for an insurance company. This does not seem to be an occupation that is either male or female oriented.
Women, who are very good at their jobs, often train inexperienced male employees in the details of their jobs. Because of years of service, the women may make more money than the new male employees. Then, after a training period, the man is promoted, with a nice pay raise.
This is repeated many times.
Some women do not want the male jobs, because they are required to take out of town trips, overnight. Golf outings. Gathers where a woman feels out of place, and is away from her children and husband. What is acceptable for men (by their wives) is not acceptable for women (by their husbands). Sexism.
These outing and gathering really have much less to do with the benefit the company receives (increased business, etc) and much more to do with institutional sexism.

The woman has better job skills and certification than them man, but gets passed over for promotion, repeatedly. Occasionally a woman gets the promotion. but the vast majority are men.
Occasionally a man gets passed over for promotions, but the vast majority are women.

If the woman gets promoted, she gets paid what the men do, and the men who get passed over for promotion make the same as the women who are passed over.

So, no discrimination, right?
Side by side comparisons, paid the same.
But look across fields, and unequal pay.
Look at the promotion rate, and the men climb the ladder, the women do not.

This is what I have seen, in my life and the lives of family members.

This is institutionalized sexism.
It is accepted as business as usual.

There are ways individuals can avoid this discrimination, but for every person avoiding the female downside, there is one seeking and promoting the male upside.
Individuals can rise above, but groups can not.
By the time many discover they are in a sexist discrimination situation, they have invested years or decades in their career field, and actually enjoy their profession.

Feminists organizations do not present their position this way, and I do not know why.
I have looked at some of the data that supports the pay inequity argument, and they do not indicate what I say is not true. They do not make a case for my position, but they do not argue against it.

Fields dominated by women have pay scales that are lower than male dominated fields, even though the job education and skills can be met by women just as well as men.
Women train men to do their jobs, and then watch as men get promoted over them, due to institutionalized sexism.
SolonKR
Posts: 4,041
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10/16/2016 2:02:42 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I think one way to think about this more usefully is to look within specific professions rather than at a vague aggregate. For instance, let's talk about medical professionals. See http://www.nytimes.com... and the actual abstract at http://jamanetwork.com....

After adjusting for "detailed information on sex, age, years of experience, faculty rank, specialty, scientific authorship, National Institutes of Health funding, clinical trial participation, and Medicare reimbursements (proxy for clinical revenue)," they still find that women "earn nearly $20,000 less a year on average than their male colleagues"; "[b]efore adjusting for factors that could influence income, the researchers found that the absolute difference between the genders was more than $51,000 a year." The only known limitation is that the researchers had "a lack of information about who was on a tenure track", but that's still not nearly enough to explain the difference.

tl;dr when you look at specific professions, a pay gap does exist. Interestingly, "[t]he researchers also found stark variations in the salary gap at different medical schools, suggesting some address pay inequities more aggressively than others," which suggests that the factors that lead to the pay gap can be mitigated (or promoted) by institutional factors.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,207
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10/18/2016 11:32:35 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 12:15:50 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
There are many job fields that are staffed primarily by women. 80/20 ratio.
The job skills, education, etc. needed are primarily the same as other fields that are mostly men. The men in the male dominated job sector make more than the women in the women dominated sector.


One such field is social service, primary school education is another.
Due to the nurturing propensity of women, they are more likely to be attracted to social service jobs, (and early childhood education) than men.
Anyone employed in these fields make less money than employment that requires a similar level of education and job skill - not the actual job skills, but a similar level.

So yes, in that exact job site men and women make the same pay - no discrimination.

.... you realize this concedes your argument, right?

However, comparing job site to job site, the male dominated field gets paid more - again, regardless of the actual sex of a specific employee.

Still waiting for an example.

Another common situation:

Many organizations are 'good old boy', chauvinistic.
A family member worked for an insurance company. This does not seem to be an occupation that is either male or female oriented.
Women, who are very good at their jobs, often train inexperienced male employees in the details of their jobs. Because of years of service, the women may make more money than the new male employees. Then, after a training period, the man is promoted, with a nice pay raise.
This is repeated many times.

To many to list, apparently.

Some women do not want the male jobs, because they are required to take out of town trips, overnight. Golf outings. Gathers where a woman feels out of place, and is away from her children and husband. What is acceptable for men (by their wives) is not acceptable for women (by their husbands). Sexism.

Personal choices. Not sexism. Personal choices.

These outing and gathering really have much less to do with the benefit the company receives (increased business, etc) and much more to do with institutional sexism.

Bald assertion.

The woman has better job skills and certification than them man, but gets passed over for promotion, repeatedly. Occasionally a woman gets the promotion. but the vast majority are men.
Occasionally a man gets passed over for promotions, but the vast majority are women.

If the woman gets promoted, she gets paid what the men do, and the men who get passed over for promotion make the same as the women who are passed over.

So, no discrimination, right?
Side by side comparisons, paid the same.
But look across fields, and unequal pay.

Unequal results? We may never know, you just assert assert assert.

Look at the promotion rate, and the men climb the ladder, the women do not.


This is what I have seen, in my life and the lives of family members.

This is institutionalized sexism.
It is accepted as business as usual.

There are ways individuals can avoid this discrimination, but for every person avoiding the female downside, there is one seeking and promoting the male upside.
Individuals can rise above, but groups can not.
By the time many discover they are in a sexist discrimination situation, they have invested years or decades in their career field, and actually enjoy their profession.

Feminists organizations do not present their position this way, and I do not know why.
I have looked at some of the data that supports the pay inequity argument, and they do not indicate what I say is not true. They do not make a case for my position, but they do not argue against it.

Fields dominated by women have pay scales that are lower than male dominated fields, even though the job education and skills can be met by women just as well as men.

Fields dominated by women are both low skill, and no risk/physical effort jobs.

Women train men to do their jobs, and then watch as men get promoted over them, due to institutionalized sexism.

Still need an example that is not anecdotal.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,171
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10/18/2016 12:51:45 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/18/2016 11:32:35 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/16/2016 12:15:50 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
There are many job fields that are staffed primarily by women. 80/20 ratio.
The job skills, education, etc. needed are primarily the same as other fields that are mostly men. The men in the male dominated job sector make more than the women in the women dominated sector.


One such field is social service, primary school education is another.
Due to the nurturing propensity of women, they are more likely to be attracted to social service jobs, (and early childhood education) than men.
Anyone employed in these fields make less money than employment that requires a similar level of education and job skill - not the actual job skills, but a similar level.


So yes, in that exact job site men and women make the same pay - no discrimination.


.... you realize this concedes your argument, right?

No.
Apparently you missed the point of my argument.

However, comparing job site to job site, the male dominated field gets paid more - again, regardless of the actual sex of a specific employee.

Still waiting for an example.


Another common situation:

Many organizations are 'good old boy', chauvinistic.
A family member worked for an insurance company. This does not seem to be an occupation that is either male or female oriented.
Women, who are very good at their jobs, often train inexperienced male employees in the details of their jobs. Because of years of service, the women may make more money than the new male employees. Then, after a training period, the man is promoted, with a nice pay raise.
This is repeated many times.

To many to list, apparently.

Some women do not want the male jobs, because they are required to take out of town trips, overnight. Golf outings. Gathers where a woman feels out of place, and is away from her children and husband. What is acceptable for men (by their wives) is not acceptable for women (by their husbands). Sexism.

Personal choices. Not sexism. Personal choices.

These outing and gathering really have much less to do with the benefit the company receives (increased business, etc) and much more to do with institutional sexism.

Bald assertion.

The woman has better job skills and certification than them man, but gets passed over for promotion, repeatedly. Occasionally a woman gets the promotion. but the vast majority are men.
Occasionally a man gets passed over for promotions, but the vast majority are women.

If the woman gets promoted, she gets paid what the men do, and the men who get passed over for promotion make the same as the women who are passed over.

So, no discrimination, right?
Side by side comparisons, paid the same.
But look across fields, and unequal pay.

Unequal results? We may never know, you just assert assert assert.

Look at the promotion rate, and the men climb the ladder, the women do not.



This is what I have seen, in my life and the lives of family members.

This is institutionalized sexism.
It is accepted as business as usual.

There are ways individuals can avoid this discrimination, but for every person avoiding the female downside, there is one seeking and promoting the male upside.
Individuals can rise above, but groups can not.
By the time many discover they are in a sexist discrimination situation, they have invested years or decades in their career field, and actually enjoy their profession.

Feminists organizations do not present their position this way, and I do not know why.
I have looked at some of the data that supports the pay inequity argument, and they do not indicate what I say is not true. They do not make a case for my position, but they do not argue against it.

Fields dominated by women have pay scales that are lower than male dominated fields, even though the job education and skills can be met by women just as well as men.

Fields dominated by women are both low skill, and no risk/physical effort jobs.

Social service workers are required to have college degrees or equivalent experience.
The ratio is this field is 75% female, from my personal experience as well as research.
Social service offices in metro area have uniformed police in many lobbies. Those that don't have Plexiglass protection at reception.
Passage ways through different floors or sections of social service offices have locked doorways that require access codes, for the safety of workers.
Children/youth workers received death threats, for removing children from abusive homes.
Social service workers routinely interview felons, sociopaths, psychopaths, AIDS patients, and others with communicable diseases who take no precautions to prevent infecting others.

Women train men to do their jobs, and then watch as men get promoted over them, due to institutionalized sexism.

Still need an example that is not anecdotal.

Well, I stated very clearly that my life experiences have demonstrated this.
The research data supports this.
If you do not want to accept it, that is fine with me.
I am not trying to convince, I am trying to explain.
You choose to not accept my explanation, due to a lack of evidence.
A lack of evidence is not evidence.
I am content to let you be happy in your ignorance.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,207
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10/18/2016 1:00:31 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/18/2016 12:51:45 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 10/18/2016 11:32:35 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/16/2016 12:15:50 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
There are many job fields that are staffed primarily by women. 80/20 ratio.
The job skills, education, etc. needed are primarily the same as other fields that are mostly men. The men in the male dominated job sector make more than the women in the women dominated sector.


One such field is social service, primary school education is another.
Due to the nurturing propensity of women, they are more likely to be attracted to social service jobs, (and early childhood education) than men.
Anyone employed in these fields make less money than employment that requires a similar level of education and job skill - not the actual job skills, but a similar level.


So yes, in that exact job site men and women make the same pay - no discrimination.


.... you realize this concedes your argument, right?

No.
Apparently you missed the point of my argument.

That, or you don't realize what you said was a concession.

Exact same position.
Exact same pay.
Regardless of gender.

No wage gap.

What does that tell us about the wage gap?

However, comparing job site to job site, the male dominated field gets paid more - again, regardless of the actual sex of a specific employee.

Still waiting for an example.


Another common situation:

Many organizations are 'good old boy', chauvinistic.
A family member worked for an insurance company. This does not seem to be an occupation that is either male or female oriented.
Women, who are very good at their jobs, often train inexperienced male employees in the details of their jobs. Because of years of service, the women may make more money than the new male employees. Then, after a training period, the man is promoted, with a nice pay raise.
This is repeated many times.

To many to list, apparently.

Some women do not want the male jobs, because they are required to take out of town trips, overnight. Golf outings. Gathers where a woman feels out of place, and is away from her children and husband. What is acceptable for men (by their wives) is not acceptable for women (by their husbands). Sexism.

Personal choices. Not sexism. Personal choices.

These outing and gathering really have much less to do with the benefit the company receives (increased business, etc) and much more to do with institutional sexism.

Bald assertion.

The woman has better job skills and certification than them man, but gets passed over for promotion, repeatedly. Occasionally a woman gets the promotion. but the vast majority are men.
Occasionally a man gets passed over for promotions, but the vast majority are women.

If the woman gets promoted, she gets paid what the men do, and the men who get passed over for promotion make the same as the women who are passed over.

So, no discrimination, right?
Side by side comparisons, paid the same.
But look across fields, and unequal pay.

Unequal results? We may never know, you just assert assert assert.

Look at the promotion rate, and the men climb the ladder, the women do not.



This is what I have seen, in my life and the lives of family members.

This is institutionalized sexism.
It is accepted as business as usual.

There are ways individuals can avoid this discrimination, but for every person avoiding the female downside, there is one seeking and promoting the male upside.
Individuals can rise above, but groups can not.
By the time many discover they are in a sexist discrimination situation, they have invested years or decades in their career field, and actually enjoy their profession.

Feminists organizations do not present their position this way, and I do not know why.
I have looked at some of the data that supports the pay inequity argument, and they do not indicate what I say is not true. They do not make a case for my position, but they do not argue against it.

Fields dominated by women have pay scales that are lower than male dominated fields, even though the job education and skills can be met by women just as well as men.

Fields dominated by women are both low skill, and no risk/physical effort jobs.

Social service workers are required to have college degrees or equivalent experience.
The ratio is this field is 75% female, from my personal experience as well as research.
Social service offices in metro area have uniformed police in many lobbies. Those that don't have Plexiglass protection at reception.

Passage ways through different floors or sections of social service offices have locked doorways that require access codes, for the safety of workers. Children/youth workers received death threats, for removing children from abusive homes. Social service workers routinely interview felons, sociopaths, psychopaths, AIDS patients, and others with communicable diseases who take no precautions to prevent infecting others.

They are not inherently dangerous positions. bro. I don't know what to tell you.



Women train men to do their jobs, and then watch as men get promoted over them, due to institutionalized sexism.

Still need an example that is not anecdotal.

Well, I stated very clearly that my life experiences have demonstrated this.

So, anecdotal. Nice.

The research data supports this.

Citation? FFS, how many times can I ask for examples and you not give them?

If you do not want to accept it, that is fine with me.

Asking for evidence of your claim is not rejection of your claim.

I am not trying to convince, I am trying to explain.

No, you are trying to convince, by definition. Explanations are contingent upon reasons or evidence. You have brought to the table neither. Convincing some one, though, can exist sans evidence or reasons. That is what you are currently up to.

You choose to not accept my explanation, due to a lack of evidence.

I choose not to be convinced.

A lack of evidence is not evidence.

No, but it is a good indicator that something that is said to exist... doesn't.

I am content to let you be happy in your ignorance.

Sure bro. Your failure to demonstrate is my ignorance.

Sure that serves you will in life. BTW, are you a female stating you don't get paid enough, and bring no evidence of your work to your boss(es), and then when they summarily reject your request, you complain sexism, and that its their ignorance?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...