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Abortion for Carelessness Is A Crime

JoeTarnick
Posts: 1
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10/6/2016 3:51:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Abortion should not be allowed. There is just one circumstance where an abortion should be performed. This circumstance is if there is a kidnapping and rape, if the person was violated and couldn't help their self then they should be able to get rid of the baby so they don"t have to be reminded of the torture day after day. Also they may not be able to support this child. They were not expected to have this child and were forced into a difficult situation.
On the other hand if you are being irresponsible and careless and find out you are pregnant, than should not be able to get an abortion. If you do you are killing an innocent human being for you own carelessness. If you make such a foolish mistake you should have realized the consequences. But if you made a stupid mistake that"s all in your hands now. You can't kill a human being because you say Oh My God! I screwed up! Raise the baby and maybe you will learn something from it" maybe you will teach your kid to be a better person.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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10/6/2016 9:55:31 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/6/2016 3:51:36 PM, JoeTarnick wrote:
Abortion should not be allowed. There is just one circumstance where an abortion should be performed.

Two circumstances. First, if continuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk. Second, if the fetus is severely deformed.

This circumstance is if there is a kidnapping and rape, if the person was violated and couldn't help their self then they should be able to get rid of the baby so they don"t have to be reminded of the torture day after day. Also they may not be able to support this child. They were not expected to have this child and were forced into a difficult situation.

They'll still suffer trauma with or without the baby. If they don't want the baby, they can adopt it out instead. The child should not have to die for its father's crimes.

On the other hand if you are being irresponsible and careless and find out you are pregnant, than should not be able to get an abortion. If you do you are killing an innocent human being for you own carelessness. If you make such a foolish mistake you should have realized the consequences. But if you made a stupid mistake that"s all in your hands now. You can't kill a human being because you say Oh My God! I screwed up! Raise the baby and maybe you will learn something from it" maybe you will teach your kid to be a better person.

We should offer free sterilization procedures for poor people. That would solve so many problems.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,097
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10/8/2016 12:07:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 3:51:36 PM, JoeTarnick wrote:
Abortion should not be allowed. There is just one circumstance where an abortion should be performed. This circumstance is if there is a kidnapping and rape, if the person was violated and couldn't help their self then they should be able to get rid of the baby so they don"t have to be reminded of the torture day after day. Also they may not be able to support this child. They were not expected to have this child and were forced into a difficult situation.
On the other hand if you are being irresponsible and careless and find out you are pregnant, than should not be able to get an abortion. If you do you are killing an innocent human being for you own carelessness. If you make such a foolish mistake you should have realized the consequences. But if you made a stupid mistake that"s all in your hands now. You can't kill a human being because you say Oh My God! I screwed up! Raise the baby and maybe you will learn something from it" maybe you will teach your kid to be a better person.

Interesting position, in that you are against abortion, but don't consider it to be murder. Would you care to elaborate on your logic into why exactly an abortion is a bad thing?

For example, I am pro-choice. I'm not a medical expert nor a great philosopher, though I've determined myself that it would not be bad to have an abortion. However the fact that I'm not an expert, or maybe just my humble approach to life deems that I keep a certain degree of doubt in that notion. I'm slightly unsure that abortion is humane, and so given the weight of human life will not take the chances....However, I respect the differing views of people that see otherwise.

What is your view of the baby at conception?

Also, is adoption not an option in your view? In an alternate scenario, once the child is born, is there some sort of reason the victimized mother should or should not keep the baby? It would seem that would solve the contradictory nature of your stance, as well as giving her the freedom to live life according to her own choices again.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
RayOfWisdom
Posts: 11
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10/14/2016 2:56:37 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 9:55:31 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 10/6/2016 3:51:36 PM, JoeTarnick wrote:
Abortion should not be allowed. There is just one circumstance where an abortion should be performed.

Two circumstances. First, if continuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk. Second, if the fetus is severely deformed.


What is it about abortion within a reasonable time-frame that would be criminal? Just because you seem to feel so strongly about it being an immoral act does not justify or give a reasonable account as to why this act is criminal. And just because your feelings about this are so passionate does not give you the right to determine this issue for others. If I were in a situation that required me to consider abortion, I have no idea what I would do, but I am pro-choice insofar as I would never deign to make this decision for others. That's just arrogant and selfish.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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10/14/2016 11:52:37 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 2:56:37 PM, RayOfWisdom wrote:
What is it about abortion within a reasonable time-frame that would be criminal? Just because you seem to feel so strongly about it being an immoral act does not justify or give a reasonable account as to why this act is criminal.

Ending the life of the fetus makes it criminal. It already has a brain and heart by the time a woman knows she's pregnant, so I draw the line at that positive pregnancy test.

And just because your feelings about this are so passionate does not give you the right to determine this issue for others.

This has nothing to do with my feelings, which are actually split 50/50. My opinion is purely factual:

P1. The fetus is a living human being (biological fact).
P2. Human beings have the right to life (legal principle).
Conclusion: The fetus has a right to life.

I make a few exceptions.
If the woman's life is at risk by continuing the pregnancy, termination is equivalent to self-defense, which is always justified.
If the fetus is severely deformed, and if euthanasia is morally acceptable, then termination is justified on those grounds.
If post-natal depression is a defense against murder, then severe mental distress should be a defense against illegal abortion.
RayOfWisdom
Posts: 11
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10/16/2016 7:14:12 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/14/2016 11:52:37 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 10/14/2016 2:56:37 PM, RayOfWisdom wrote:
What is it about abortion within a reasonable time-frame that would be criminal? Just because you seem to feel so strongly about it being an immoral act does not justify or give a reasonable account as to why this act is criminal.

Ending the life of the fetus makes it criminal. It already has a brain and heart by the time a woman knows she's pregnant, so I draw the line at that positive pregnancy test.

And just because your feelings about this are so passionate does not give you the right to determine this issue for others.

This has nothing to do with my feelings, which are actually split 50/50. My opinion is purely factual:

P1. The fetus is a living human being (biological fact).
P2. Human beings have the right to life (legal principle).
Conclusion: The fetus has a right to life.

I make a few exceptions.
If the woman's life is at risk by continuing the pregnancy, termination is equivalent to self-defense, which is always justified.
If the fetus is severely deformed, and if euthanasia is morally acceptable, then termination is justified on those grounds.
If post-natal depression is a defense against murder, then severe mental distress should be a defense against illegal abortion.

I must apologize for my lack of clarity: I initially quoted you because I wanted to +1 your conditions for permitting an abortion in my response to the OP. My first post was intended to be directed only at the OP and I was careless in indicating that.

However, I must disagree with your follow-up.
While there is a biological reality, I think that it is impossible to determine the moment at which personhood is established solely by the existence of a heart and brain. If I had no problem with your first premise, I'd agree with your argument and its conclusion. But because I cannot accept that human life has begun where a pregnancy test reads positively, I must reject it.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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10/16/2016 11:00:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/16/2016 7:14:12 PM, RayOfWisdom wrote:
While there is a biological reality, I think that it is impossible to determine the moment at which personhood is established solely by the existence of a heart and brain. If I had no problem with your first premise, I'd agree with your argument and its conclusion. But because I cannot accept that human life has begun where a pregnancy test reads positively, I must reject it.

"Personhood" is a legal concept, not a scientific one. Its placement can be as empirical or arbitrary as we choose. I chose brain and heart because they're: 1, absolute proof that we're no longer talking about a "lump of cells"; and 2, universal indicators of human life. If you have a better set of criteria, I'm all ears.