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"Grab them by the_pussy?" Totally disgusting.

YYW
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10/22/2016 4:03:11 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I agree with many people who have said that the way Donald Trump treats women is, in general, of marginal relevance to the kinds of policies he supports. But, his well established history of sexually assaulting women does speak volumes about who he is as a person. More revealing is the extent to which Trump has outrightly lied to the American people about his actions in relation to all of those women. Trump has lied, and gaslit Americans who long to believe that he is their resident savior.

Importantly, this is not a "let's all come together and whine about the rape culture," or "blame heterosexual men for all the world's problems in general, and all problems women experience in particular." Generally speaking, I think most of that line of reasoning begins and ends in absurdity. What this post *is* about is what voters should think about, when voting for Trump.

First, Trump has no respect for other people's rights when they interfere with his wants--however base his wants are. What it means to sexually assault someone is to prioritize your temporal lust over another person's right to bodily integrity. It's reflective of inherent selfishness and self centeredness, in any case, as much as it is reflective of a person's impulsivity. Reasonable people do not sexually assault other people, but Trump did. Not only is he impulsive and unreasonable, but he is those things while he is selfish and doesn't give a sh!t about other people's rights. That is bad.

Second, Trump is recalcitrant in his self absorption. Most people who are accused of wrongdoing do one of three things: they admit, ignore, or deny the allegation. Admitting the charge isn't always wise, and when doing so can come at a cost it's not likely after the fact. So, we can't really consider this as one of the two viable options for Trump even though it would have been the right thing to do. Ignoring or denial are left, and Trump chose the latter. What that means is that he did not chose to ignore the charges, which would have been the best tactical thing for him to do because it delegitimizes the allegations. Instead, Trump confronted the charges and actively denied them. That meant that he intentionally mislead the American people, and then went the next step further to accuse his accusers of wrongdoing. That suggests that Trump resents their asserting the truth of his actions, and desires to retaliate against those women he has sexually assaulted--in many respects, validating everything they have said. Clearly he is a very shallow and vindictive person.

Third, both of these things raise many substantial questions about how he would engage in diplomatic relations. If another leader said something about him that he didn't like, it is entirely reasonable to expect him to over react... as he has in literally every case where any person at any time has said anything about him he found even mildly objectionable. This will likely lead to global instability, and a precipitous decline in America's place in the world.

Fourth, these things also mean that Trump both places his reputation over the truth, regarding what he values; as much as it means that Trump's primary concern is his image, rather than the substance of any human interaction. Trump is likely to resort to many of the same tactics that other third world tin-pot dictators, like Hugo Chavez or Vladimir Putin resorted to when their disastrous domestic policies resulted in economic ruin for their respective countries. For Chavez, it was the world's concerted conspiracy to wage economic warfare on Venezuela. For Putin, all of Russia's problems are exclusively the fault of the United States and NATO, and his persuasive efforts have been so effective that even American idiots have come to believe this in some cases. For Trump, we know who it is: China, Japan, and any other country he decides he doesn't like... despite the fact that Trump built his towers with shitty Chinese steel. Irony abounds.

Americans should think long and hard about who they vote for this election. Trump's personal instability and behavioral norms are a source of irritation now, but could become a source of global instability tomorrow.
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Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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10/22/2016 6:38:41 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
There is no evidence that Trump molested anybody. There is no evidence Bill Clinton molested anybody. There is no evidence George W. Bush molested anybody.

Being accused of sexual assault is just part of becoming president.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,646
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10/22/2016 4:48:45 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 6:38:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump molested anybody. There is no evidence Bill Clinton molested anybody. There is no evidence George W. Bush molested anybody.

Being accused of sexual assault is just part of becoming president.

+1
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,127
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10/22/2016 5:01:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 4:03:11 AM, YYW wrote:
I agree with many people who have said that the way Donald Trump treats women is, in general, of marginal relevance to the kinds of policies he supports. But, his well established history of sexually assaulting women does speak volumes about who he is as a person. More revealing is the extent to which Trump has outrightly lied to the American people about his actions in relation to all of those women. Trump has lied, and gaslit Americans who long to believe that he is their resident savior.

Call me ignorant, but I do not recall factual information stating Trump has sexually assaulted women. Without flaming the thread, I believe it would be relevant, and constructive to provide valid sources without the possibility of political, vengeful, or otherwise questionable motive.

Third, both of these things raise many substantial questions about how he would engage in diplomatic relations. If another leader said something about him that he didn't like, it is entirely reasonable to expect him to over react... as he has in literally every case where any person at any time has said anything about him he found even mildly objectionable. This will likely lead to global instability, and a precipitous decline in America's place in the world.

Fourth, these things also mean that Trump both places his reputation over the truth, regarding what he values; as much as it means that Trump's primary concern is his image, rather than the substance of any human interaction. Trump is likely to resort to many of the same tactics that other third world tin-pot dictators, like Hugo Chavez or Vladimir Putin resorted to when their disastrous domestic policies resulted in economic ruin for their respective countries. For Chavez, it was the world's concerted conspiracy to wage economic warfare on Venezuela. For Putin, all of Russia's problems are exclusively the fault of the United States and NATO, and his persuasive efforts have been so effective that even American idiots have come to believe this in some cases. For Trump, we know who it is: China, Japan, and any other country he decides he doesn't like... despite the fact that Trump built his towers with shitty Chinese steel. Irony abounds.

Americans should think long and hard about who they vote for this election. Trump's personal instability and behavioral norms are a source of irritation now, but could become a source of global instability tomorrow.

We never truly know who our candidates are. For the majority of American's ts purely an image, an imaginative figure that we hope to approach the actuality of the person we are voting for. In Trump's case, it is impossible at this time, for me to craft a figure or representation of what I believe Trump is. Without the required knowledge that would come about from integrity, transparency, and sincerity, along with a clear form of communication, Trump does not yet have the tools necessary for consideration in this years election.

For this reason, I personally do not see merit in thinking long and hard about Trump. Efforts are better placed in more defined candidates, and especially in congress given the obvious circumstances leading up to where we are today.

Addressing your "third" and "fourth" paragraphs, along with the main point drawn through my reply I don't think we have the context and insight required to read into the situations you are describing....not within this thread anyway. This discussion is all made moot by the loosely defined nature of Trump to begin with.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/22/2016 5:13:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
I think he is just pretending to be unstable and stupid. Nobody amasses billions of dollars without being a cold and calculating genius. It just isn't possible.
Quadrunner
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10/22/2016 5:23:56 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 5:13:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think he is just pretending to be unstable and stupid. Nobody amasses billions of dollars without being a cold and calculating genius. It just isn't possible.

This statement denies the possibility of Trump riding on the decisions of greater minds....All the same conclusion though, as that's basically what the president does anyway.

Had this been another thread, Trump's financial blunder's would need to be looked into quite seriously.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Wylted
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10/22/2016 5:33:34 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 5:23:56 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 10/22/2016 5:13:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think he is just pretending to be unstable and stupid. Nobody amasses billions of dollars without being a cold and calculating genius. It just isn't possible.

This statement denies the possibility of Trump riding on the decisions of greater minds....All the same conclusion though, as that's basically what the president does anyway.

Had this been another thread, Trump's financial blunder's would need to be looked into quite seriously.

Riding on greater minds means he would heavily lean on his advisors who seem really good so he will be fine as a president. The financial blunders don't matter. It is about overall performance. The blunders are part of the game. If I make 100 investments it doesn't matter if 90 investments fail. It is about the performance of the overall portfolio.

You see idiots pointing this out about Trump all the time, but nobody ever points out that most of Peter Lynche's investments lose money. We know that Peter Lynch is an excellent investor and it's why his wealth is what it is, but I guess real estate and entrepreneurship is judged on a more unfair scale, despite the fact starting businesses is higher risk reward ratio than investing in Fortune 500 companies.
triangle.128k
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10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 4:03:11 AM, YYW wrote:
First, Trump has no respect for other people's rights when they interfere with his wants--however base his wants are. What it means to sexually assault someone is to prioritize your temporal lust over another person's right to bodily integrity. It's reflective of inherent selfishness and self centeredness, in any case, as much as it is reflective of a person's impulsivity. Reasonable people do not sexually assault other people, but Trump did. Not only is he impulsive and unreasonable, but he is those things while he is selfish and doesn't give a sh!t about other people's rights. That is bad.
What evidence is here that he has sexually assaulted anybody? With the giant plague of third wave feminism hitting us, accusing male president(ial candidate)s of sexual assault or rape is probably going to be the norm for some time. I am fairly sure you're going to dismiss the claims against George W Bush or Bill Clinton as nonsense, because they were accused of sexually assaulting/raping people just like Trump has.
Even so, it is quite odd that these women accuse Trump right when he runs for president. The accusers claimed that Trump sexually assaulted them anywhere from 20-40 years ago. Now out of that time frame, why are they all coming out now? Now one could use the argument that they want to expose him when he runs for president, but how did they even know he would run for president? The women are either lunatics or paid by Clinton. Innocent until proven guilty.

A while ago, you spoke out against the regressive left. Now, you're baiting into them by accusing Trump of false sexual accusations without any proof what so ever.

Second, Trump is recalcitrant in his self absorption. Most people who are accused of wrongdoing do one of three things: they admit, ignore, or deny the allegation. Admitting the charge isn't always wise, and when doing so can come at a cost it's not likely after the fact. So, we can't really consider this as one of the two viable options for Trump even though it would have been the right thing to do. Ignoring or denial are left, and Trump chose the latter. What that means is that he did not chose to ignore the charges, which would have been the best tactical thing for him to do because it delegitimizes the allegations. Instead, Trump confronted the charges and actively denied them. That meant that he intentionally mislead the American people, and then went the next step further to accuse his accusers of wrongdoing. That suggests that Trump resents their asserting the truth of his actions, and desires to retaliate against those women he has sexually assaulted--in many respects, validating everything they have said. Clearly he is a very shallow and vindictive person.
By this, you are implying that Trump should have ignored the accusations if he were truly innocent. Given Trump's personality however, he would of course condemn and deny any accusations true or not.

Denying an accusation as contrast to ignoring them does not prove they are true, your statements are ridiculous.

Third, both of these things raise many substantial questions about how he would engage in diplomatic relations. If another leader said something about him that he didn't like, it is entirely reasonable to expect him to over react... as he has in literally every case where any person at any time has said anything about him he found even mildly objectionable. This will likely lead to global instability, and a precipitous decline in America's place in the world.

By what evidence are you basing this on? Do also take into account that presidential campaigns are not the most "professional" things, and Trump being in actual office would likely have his mood to be more serious and professional about things.

Fourth, these things also mean that Trump both places his reputation over the truth, regarding what he values; as much as it means that Trump's primary concern is his image, rather than the substance of any human interaction.

When has he demonstrated this in the past?

Trump is likely to resort to many of the same tactics that other third world tin-pot dictators, like Hugo Chavez or Vladimir Putin resorted to when their disastrous domestic policies resulted in economic ruin for their respective countries. For Chavez, it was the world's concerted conspiracy to wage economic warfare on Venezuela. For Putin, all of Russia's problems are exclusively the fault of the United States and NATO, and his persuasive efforts have been so effective that even American idiots have come to believe this in some cases. For Trump, we know who it is: China, Japan, and any other country he decides he doesn't like... despite the fact that Trump built his towers with shitty Chinese steel. Irony abounds.

(see above)

Americans should think long and hard about who they vote for this election. Trump's personal instability and behavioral norms are a source of irritation now, but could become a source of global instability tomorrow.
triangle.128k
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10/22/2016 5:35:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 5:13:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think he is just pretending to be unstable and stupid. Nobody amasses billions of dollars without being a cold and calculating genius. It just isn't possible.

+1
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/22/2016 6:46:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
The ridiculous notion that YYW actually feels any moral outrage over Trump's comments or actions aside, he has made the claim that Putin is an ineffective, incompetent leader. This simply is not true.
Russia is not a threat to the US. It has an economy the size of South Korea's, and its population is roughly the same size as Bangladesh's. Its military is perhaps the second most powerful in the world, but it could not possibly launch a successful invasion of the United States, and a powerful anti-Russia alliance (NATO) exists in the continent bordering it (Europe). Literally the only way that Russia could possibly threaten us is through its enormous nuclear arsenal.
Despite this, under Putin Russia has punched above the belt on the world stage. The War in Donbass is a prime example; instead of invading the country, Putin simply influenced the pro-Russia segments of Ukraine to revolt, stalling any further integration with the West. Whenever Donetsk and Luhansk are eventually restored to Ukrainian control, these regions will serve as a formidable voting bloc to advance Russian interests. The rest of Ukraine will be afraid of pursuing further integration with the West out of fear of another Donbass revolt, and the West will be afraid of accepting Ukraine into the fold out of fear of another Ukraine crIsis. Russia hardly had to fire a single shot, and it prevented Ukraine from leaving the Russian sphere of influence.
Russia annexed Crimea in order to secure permanent and unrestricted access to the peninsula's warm-water ports, and to bolster Putin's approval ratings. The economic sanctions against Russia probably won't last much longer; Europe is hurt by these sanctions just like Russia is, and Russia's propaganda efforts are wearing down Europe's resolve. Eventually Europe will crack, and Russia's economy will recover. In the meantime, Russia's economic downturn is slowing, and growth will return soon enough, perhaps even with the sanctions still in place.
Speaking of propaganda, the Russians have built an incredibly effective propaganda machine, with a coherent gospel that it tries to spread. A yuge part of this message is that the Americans, in an attempt to spread democracy to the Middle East, have sowed widespread instability, and that Russia, with its unwavering support for strongman regimes that maintain stability, is the region's only hope for peace. This message is backed by Russia's military intervention on the side of the Syrian government. After the regime wins the civil war (largely with Russian help), other middle eastern countries will align with Russia, and it'll become a major player in the region just from dropping a few bombs. Furthermore, like with Germany in the Spanish Civil War, the intervention gives Russia the chance to test out the capabilities of its reformed military, and to showcase its capabilities to the rest of the world. This'll boost Russia's arms sales.
Another example is Russia's intervention in our presidential election. It's clear to everyone that Russia could get away with a lot more under President Trump than under President Clinton. So Russia is trying to help Trump win. Had Putin simply endorsed Trump, that would do little; most Americans hate Putin. Instead, Russia carried a number of relatively low-cost hacks which provided them with dirt on Clinton, boosting Trump's chances.

Putin uses low-cost means to achieve massive gains, allowing the second-rate power which is Russia to rival the United States on the global stage. He is an one of the greatest statesmen in our world today.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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YYW
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10/22/2016 6:56:30 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 6:38:41 AM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump molested anybody. There is no evidence Bill Clinton molested anybody. There is no evidence George W. Bush molested anybody.

Being accused of sexual assault is just part of becoming president.

Your username must be misleading, then. There is ample evidence that Trump sexually assaulted numerous women. The fact that you chose to ignore that evidence does not mean that it doesn't exist. Also, please refrain from vacuous comments in the future. You just make yourself look foolish when you do that.
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YYW
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10/22/2016 6:59:14 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM, triangle.128k wrote:

Public testimony from named people who can be sued for libel or slander for such accusations if they were false is strong evidence of sexual assault's occurrence. As I said above, there is ample evidence that Trump sexually assaulted many women. The fact that you fail to appreciate the fact that it is evidence does not mean that it's not evidence. Please, in the future be more attentive to the circumstantial realities of the subjects you discuss.

smh
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missbailey8
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10/22/2016 7:22:30 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Even so, it is quite odd that these women accuse Trump right when he runs for president. The accusers claimed that Trump sexually assaulted them anywhere from 20-40 years ago. Now out of that time frame, why are they all coming out now? Now one could use the argument that they want to expose him when he runs for president, but how did they even know he would run for president? The women are either lunatics or paid by Clinton. Innocent until proven guilty.

You don't seem to understand that sexual assault and rape are very hard subjects to be open about for the victims. They can be faced with ridicule, doubt, or in extreme cases, violence. It's completely possible that the women involved were too frightened to come out about it due to the above, and it isn't exactly an irrational fear.

Yes, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, but so are the alleged victims. Why are you here going after YYW for believing Trump has committed sexual assault (which there is substantial evidence to prove), but you are accusing the women of lying about their experience (which there *isn't* evidence to prove)? If you are going to say that Trump is innocent until proven guilty (which I do believe), then you have to apply the same principle to the victims regarding whether or not they are lying.
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Vox_Veritas
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10/22/2016 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
If Trump was anything like Putin, he would make America great again.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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10/22/2016 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
If Trump was anything like Putin, he would make America great again.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Quadrunner
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10/22/2016 7:29:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 7:22:30 PM, missbailey8 wrote:
At 10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Even so, it is quite odd that these women accuse Trump right when he runs for president. The accusers claimed that Trump sexually assaulted them anywhere from 20-40 years ago. Now out of that time frame, why are they all coming out now? Now one could use the argument that they want to expose him when he runs for president, but how did they even know he would run for president? The women are either lunatics or paid by Clinton. Innocent until proven guilty.

You don't seem to understand that sexual assault and rape are very hard subjects to be open about for the victims. They can be faced with ridicule, doubt, or in extreme cases, violence. It's completely possible that the women involved were too frightened to come out about it due to the above, and it isn't exactly an irrational fear.

Yes, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, but so are the alleged victims. Why are you here going after YYW for believing Trump has committed sexual assault (which there is substantial evidence to prove), but you are accusing the women of lying about their experience (which there *isn't* evidence to prove)? If you are going to say that Trump is innocent until proven guilty (which I do believe), then you have to apply the same principle to the victims regarding whether or not they are lying.

Well put
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
twocupcakes
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10/22/2016 7:52:11 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 4:03:11 AM, YYW wrote:
I agree with many people who have said that the way Donald Trump treats women is, in general, of marginal relevance to the kinds of policies he supports. But, his well established history of sexually assaulting women does speak volumes about who he is as a person. More revealing is the extent to which Trump has outrightly lied to the American people about his actions in relation to all of those women. Trump has lied, and gaslit Americans who long to believe that he is their resident savior.

Importantly, this is not a "let's all come together and whine about the rape culture," or "blame heterosexual men for all the world's problems in general, and all problems women experience in particular." Generally speaking, I think most of that line of reasoning begins and ends in absurdity. What this post *is* about is what voters should think about, when voting for Trump.

First, Trump has no respect for other people's rights when they interfere with his wants--however base his wants are. What it means to sexually assault someone is to prioritize your temporal lust over another person's right to bodily integrity. It's reflective of inherent selfishness and self centeredness, in any case, as much as it is reflective of a person's impulsivity. Reasonable people do not sexually assault other people, but Trump did. Not only is he impulsive and unreasonable, but he is those things while he is selfish and doesn't give a sh!t about other people's rights. That is bad.

Second, Trump is recalcitrant in his self absorption. Most people who are accused of wrongdoing do one of three things: they admit, ignore, or deny the allegation. Admitting the charge isn't always wise, and when doing so can come at a cost it's not likely after the fact. So, we can't really consider this as one of the two viable options for Trump even though it would have been the right thing to do. Ignoring or denial are left, and Trump chose the latter. What that means is that he did not chose to ignore the charges, which would have been the best tactical thing for him to do because it delegitimizes the allegations. Instead, Trump confronted the charges and actively denied them. That meant that he intentionally mislead the American people, and then went the next step further to accuse his accusers of wrongdoing. That suggests that Trump resents their asserting the truth of his actions, and desires to retaliate against those women he has sexually assaulted--in many respects, validating everything they have said. Clearly he is a very shallow and vindictive person.

Third, both of these things raise many substantial questions about how he would engage in diplomatic relations. If another leader said something about him that he didn't like, it is entirely reasonable to expect him to over react... as he has in literally every case where any person at any time has said anything about him he found even mildly objectionable. This will likely lead to global instability, and a precipitous decline in America's place in the world.

Fourth, these things also mean that Trump both places his reputation over the truth, regarding what he values; as much as it means that Trump's primary concern is his image, rather than the substance of any human interaction. Trump is likely to resort to many of the same tactics that other third world tin-pot dictators, like Hugo Chavez or Vladimir Putin resorted to when their disastrous domestic policies resulted in economic ruin for their respective countries. For Chavez, it was the world's concerted conspiracy to wage economic warfare on Venezuela. For Putin, all of Russia's problems are exclusively the fault of the United States and NATO, and his persuasive efforts have been so effective that even American idiots have come to believe this in some cases. For Trump, we know who it is: China, Japan, and any other country he decides he doesn't like... despite the fact that Trump built his towers with shitty Chinese steel. Irony abounds.

Americans should think long and hard about who they vote for this election. Trump's personal instability and behavioral norms are a source of irritation now, but could become a source of global instability tomorrow.

I agree with all the points you have raised. Also, I think it is worth noting that Trump did not just deny the allegations, he went on the offensive saying that the women he accused him are not attractive. Further, Trump still claims that "no one respects women more than him". I mean C'mon...by saying that Trump just proves how comfortable he is with lying to the people about who he is.

This is just another example of how Trump is disrespectful to people in general (not just women). Further, it plays to the narrative about how revenge driven Trump is. I just read that Richard Branson described a strange lunch he has with Trump where Trump just talked about getting revenge on those who would not lend him money. Everyday more and more voters are seeing Trump for who he actually is.

"Even before the starters arrived he began telling me about how he had asked a number of people for help after his latest bankruptcy and how five of them were unwilling to help. He told me he was going to spend the rest of his life destroying these five people."

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idoubtit
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10/22/2016 9:27:22 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 6:59:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM, triangle.128k wrote:

Public testimony from named people who can be sued for libel or slander for such accusations if they were false is strong evidence of sexual assault's occurrence. As I said above, there is ample evidence that Trump sexually assaulted many women. The fact that you fail to appreciate the fact that it is evidence does not mean that it's not evidence. Please, in the future be more attentive to the circumstantial realities of the subjects you discuss.

smh

No, it's not. The only thing it's "evidence" of, is that there are women willing to go on national TV and make allegations. That this all happens PRECISELY when the wikileaks came out, as Hillary's boat was getting closer to sinking and Trump's poll numbers were starting to up, does indeed at least indicate something though. It smells like corruption at work.

I don't believe any of these women. That Trump has been a player, I have no doubt. But I don't think he assualted anyone. The timing is highly suspicious. I've watched these women on TV and there is not an ounce anything genuine emanating from them to ever indicate they were anyone's victim. Sharp contrast to the accusers of Bill Clinton.

I do think all of these women slithered out of the same cesspool at the behest of Clinton Corruption.
YYW
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10/22/2016 9:31:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 9:27:22 PM, idoubtit wrote:
At 10/22/2016 6:59:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM, triangle.128k wrote:

Public testimony from named people who can be sued for libel or slander for such accusations if they were false is strong evidence of sexual assault's occurrence. As I said above, there is ample evidence that Trump sexually assaulted many women. The fact that you fail to appreciate the fact that it is evidence does not mean that it's not evidence. Please, in the future be more attentive to the circumstantial realities of the subjects you discuss.

smh

No, it's not. The only thing it's "evidence" of, is that there are women willing to go on national TV and make allegations. That this all happens PRECISELY when the wikileaks came out, as Hillary's boat was getting closer to sinking and Trump's poll numbers were starting to up, does indeed at least indicate something though. It smells like corruption at work.

I don't believe any of these women. That Trump has been a player, I have no doubt. But I don't think he assualted anyone. The timing is highly suspicious. I've watched these women on TV and there is not an ounce anything genuine emanating from them to ever indicate they were anyone's victim. Sharp contrast to the accusers of Bill Clinton.

I do think all of these women slithered out of the same cesspool at the behest of Clinton Corruption.

I don't think you and I can have a reasonable discussion when we can't even agree about the basic facts of a particular case or set of cases. Eleven women have all come out and accused Trump, but you disregard that. Trump himself has described some of his actions, but you disregard that too.

There comes a point where people are so out of touch with reality that they can't even understand the truth when they're confronted with it, and you very much appear to be at that point.

I see little value in speaking to you further.
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YYW
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10/22/2016 9:33:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 7:52:11 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/22/2016 4:03:11 AM, YYW wrote:
I agree with many people who have said that the way Donald Trump treats women is, in general, of marginal relevance to the kinds of policies he supports. But, his well established history of sexually assaulting women does speak volumes about who he is as a person. More revealing is the extent to which Trump has outrightly lied to the American people about his actions in relation to all of those women. Trump has lied, and gaslit Americans who long to believe that he is their resident savior.

Importantly, this is not a "let's all come together and whine about the rape culture," or "blame heterosexual men for all the world's problems in general, and all problems women experience in particular." Generally speaking, I think most of that line of reasoning begins and ends in absurdity. What this post *is* about is what voters should think about, when voting for Trump.

First, Trump has no respect for other people's rights when they interfere with his wants--however base his wants are. What it means to sexually assault someone is to prioritize your temporal lust over another person's right to bodily integrity. It's reflective of inherent selfishness and self centeredness, in any case, as much as it is reflective of a person's impulsivity. Reasonable people do not sexually assault other people, but Trump did. Not only is he impulsive and unreasonable, but he is those things while he is selfish and doesn't give a sh!t about other people's rights. That is bad.

Second, Trump is recalcitrant in his self absorption. Most people who are accused of wrongdoing do one of three things: they admit, ignore, or deny the allegation. Admitting the charge isn't always wise, and when doing so can come at a cost it's not likely after the fact. So, we can't really consider this as one of the two viable options for Trump even though it would have been the right thing to do. Ignoring or denial are left, and Trump chose the latter. What that means is that he did not chose to ignore the charges, which would have been the best tactical thing for him to do because it delegitimizes the allegations. Instead, Trump confronted the charges and actively denied them. That meant that he intentionally mislead the American people, and then went the next step further to accuse his accusers of wrongdoing. That suggests that Trump resents their asserting the truth of his actions, and desires to retaliate against those women he has sexually assaulted--in many respects, validating everything they have said. Clearly he is a very shallow and vindictive person.

Third, both of these things raise many substantial questions about how he would engage in diplomatic relations. If another leader said something about him that he didn't like, it is entirely reasonable to expect him to over react... as he has in literally every case where any person at any time has said anything about him he found even mildly objectionable. This will likely lead to global instability, and a precipitous decline in America's place in the world.

Fourth, these things also mean that Trump both places his reputation over the truth, regarding what he values; as much as it means that Trump's primary concern is his image, rather than the substance of any human interaction. Trump is likely to resort to many of the same tactics that other third world tin-pot dictators, like Hugo Chavez or Vladimir Putin resorted to when their disastrous domestic policies resulted in economic ruin for their respective countries. For Chavez, it was the world's concerted conspiracy to wage economic warfare on Venezuela. For Putin, all of Russia's problems are exclusively the fault of the United States and NATO, and his persuasive efforts have been so effective that even American idiots have come to believe this in some cases. For Trump, we know who it is: China, Japan, and any other country he decides he doesn't like... despite the fact that Trump built his towers with shitty Chinese steel. Irony abounds.

Americans should think long and hard about who they vote for this election. Trump's personal instability and behavioral norms are a source of irritation now, but could become a source of global instability tomorrow.

I agree with all the points you have raised. Also, I think it is worth noting that Trump did not just deny the allegations, he went on the offensive saying that the women he accused him are not attractive.

Indeed, and in particular, not attractive enough to have been sexually harassed by him (e.g. "she would not be my first choice"). The man is disgusting.

Further, Trump still claims that "no one respects women more than him". I mean C'mon...by saying that Trump just proves how comfortable he is with lying to the people about who he is.

I agree with that, too. His sense of grandiosity is highly indicative of a few personality disorders.

This is just another example of how Trump is disrespectful to people in general (not just women). Further, it plays to the narrative about how revenge driven Trump is. I just read that Richard Branson described a strange lunch he has with Trump where Trump just talked about getting revenge on those who would not lend him money. Everyday more and more voters are seeing Trump for who he actually is.

"Even before the starters arrived he began telling me about how he had asked a number of people for help after his latest bankruptcy and how five of them were unwilling to help. He told me he was going to spend the rest of his life destroying these five people."

http://fortune.com...

It's really amazing how people just outrightly disregard what he is.... it's like watching lemmings run off of a cliff.
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idoubtit
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10/22/2016 9:54:52 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 9:31:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 9:27:22 PM, idoubtit wrote:
At 10/22/2016 6:59:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 5:35:22 PM, triangle.128k wrote:

Public testimony from named people who can be sued for libel or slander for such accusations if they were false is strong evidence of sexual assault's occurrence. As I said above, there is ample evidence that Trump sexually assaulted many women. The fact that you fail to appreciate the fact that it is evidence does not mean that it's not evidence. Please, in the future be more attentive to the circumstantial realities of the subjects you discuss.

smh

No, it's not. The only thing it's "evidence" of, is that there are women willing to go on national TV and make allegations. That this all happens PRECISELY when the wikileaks came out, as Hillary's boat was getting closer to sinking and Trump's poll numbers were starting to up, does indeed at least indicate something though. It smells like corruption at work.

I don't believe any of these women. That Trump has been a player, I have no doubt. But I don't think he assualted anyone. The timing is highly suspicious. I've watched these women on TV and there is not an ounce anything genuine emanating from them to ever indicate they were anyone's victim. Sharp contrast to the accusers of Bill Clinton.

I do think all of these women slithered out of the same cesspool at the behest of Clinton Corruption.

I don't think you and I can have a reasonable discussion when we can't even agree about the basic facts of a particular case or set of cases. Eleven women have all come out and accused Trump, but you disregard that. Trump himself has described some of his actions, but you disregard that too.


Correct. You're incapable of reason.
The number of women has no bearing whatsoever on their honesty. Just as easy for Clintons and Company to pay 11 as it is to pay 1. (or appeal to their liberal fanaticism) (or appeal to their sexist determination to elect a female preseident regardless of anything other than that she's female.)
I haven't disregarded anything at all.

But you have. You've completely disregarded that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, after actual evidence is presented. You've disregarded that accusations are not proof of anything (Salem witch trials anyone??) You've disregarded all of the corruption that has surrounded the Clintons for decades, and all of what is coming out now that actually has a lot more evidence to it than just words of an accusation. You've disregarded the FACT that not every woman who makes an accusation is telling the truth. You've disregarded that Hillary has been caught in lie after lie, and her campaign caught in underhanded tactics. You've disregarded that such credentials as these can easily lead to hiring and motivating liars for their cause.

There comes a point where people are so out of touch with reality that they can't even understand the truth when they're confronted with it, and you very much appear to be at that point.

You very much described yourself there. You must be a liberal. My observance of their behavior is that they much accuse others of what they themselves are most guilty of. Especially hate. They are a bottomless pit of seething hate, looking for a target. This makes them highly susceptible to the maniplations of those looking for people who vote with their emotions rather than their intellect.


I see little value in speaking to you further.

That's ok. I see ZERO value communicating with you. I'd get better logic from a chimpanzee.
YYW
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10/22/2016 9:58:05 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 9:54:52 PM, idoubtit wrote:

Sure. Can I ask you this, though. Did you graduate from high school, or did you drop out?
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idoubtit
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10/22/2016 9:59:36 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 9:58:05 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 9:54:52 PM, idoubtit wrote:

Sure. Can I ask you this, though. Did you graduate from high school, or did you drop out?

I assure you, my level of education is considerably higher than yours.
YYW
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10/22/2016 10:00:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 9:59:36 PM, idoubtit wrote:
At 10/22/2016 9:58:05 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 9:54:52 PM, idoubtit wrote:

Sure. Can I ask you this, though. Did you graduate from high school, or did you drop out?

I assure you, my level of education is considerably higher than yours.

That's unlikely. Shall I take that to mean that you failed to complete high school?
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Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/22/2016 10:12:29 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
The last few were precious. I dropped out... of a phd program. Bellarmine university to be accurate.my employer at the time offered a triple in salary if I did... and they were paying for the phd. Lol

Does that make me qualified to talk about the kitty pinching?
YYW
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10/22/2016 10:19:50 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 10:12:29 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
The last few were precious. I dropped out... of a phd program. Bellarmine university to be accurate.my employer at the time offered a triple in salary if I did... and they were paying for the phd. Lol

Does that make me qualified to talk about the kitty pinching?

lol of course

The guy I'm speaking to, though, I think probably didn't finish high school.
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Stymie13
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10/22/2016 10:31:57 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 10:19:50 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/22/2016 10:12:29 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
The last few were precious. I dropped out... of a phd program. Bellarmine university to be accurate.my employer at the time offered a triple in salary if I did... and they were paying for the phd. Lol

Does that make me qualified to talk about the kitty pinching?

lol of course

The guy I'm speaking to, though, I think probably didn't finish high school.

Well I had to teach myself how to rebuild a carburetor on my ninja (who the fvck puts carbs on vs fuel injection!) so I've been listening vs watching the Bama Aggie game.

Oh this is about trump, not me. Bad alcoholic. Yeah he's probably a douche to women. Yes some are making up or exaggerating. But he probably did go a little far on some occasion.

Seriously though women: why the fvck do you wait years on this shlt?yea it's traumatic, stigmatizing, etc... I'm a male. There was a rape attempt on me. I didn't report it because it ended very negatively for the 2 guys and I could have faced legal consequences. But keeping ones mouth shut only keeps predators at large.
bballcrook21
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10/23/2016 3:04:13 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 5:13:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think he is just pretending to be unstable and stupid. Nobody amasses billions of dollars without being a cold and calculating genius. It just isn't possible.

If you read one of the books that he's written, you can see that he clearly has his strategy embedded in it. It's somewhat like Mein Kampf, except he doesn't say the Jews are a problem and need to be rid of.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Wylted
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10/23/2016 3:14:39 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/23/2016 3:04:13 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 10/22/2016 5:13:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think he is just pretending to be unstable and stupid. Nobody amasses billions of dollars without being a cold and calculating genius. It just isn't possible.

If you read one of the books that he's written, you can see that he clearly has his strategy embedded in it. It's somewhat like Mein Kampf, except he doesn't say the Jews are a problem and need to be rid of.

I get the impression half of them are ghost written, but the ones that aren't, I agree. He was the guy that got me looking into how OPEC is corrupt, and laid out a plan for how to fix it.
Fernyx
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10/23/2016 12:56:51 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
It is disgusting, but it isn't enough to sway a vote any more than Hillary mocking rape victims.