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Should George Help?

Steelerman6794
Posts: 158
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1/22/2011 5:34:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I ran across this video the other day, and find it to be excellently made, though I wholly disagree with the premise. I can't remember if there's another thread dealing with this, but if there is, feel free to /thread.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 5:51:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:51:02 PM, Koopin wrote:
My thoughts: George needs KFC.

Why do you put KFC in every thread?
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/22/2011 5:58:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:34:13 PM, Steelerman6794 wrote:
I ran across this video the other day, and find it to be excellently made, though I wholly disagree with the premise. I can't remember if there's another thread dealing with this, but if there is, feel free to /thread.:

We've been over this video before.
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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/22/2011 6:06:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even though I disagree with the ethical approach that it makes, it's extremely well done.
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mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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1/22/2011 6:15:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I find the video pretty straightforward and correct, although being lectured by a talking cloud gets on my nerves a tad bit.

Does anybody have any counterarguments to it?

At 1/22/2011 5:51:54 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/22/2011 5:51:02 PM, Koopin wrote:
My thoughts: George needs KFC.

Why do you put KFC in every thread?

Why does the sun rise in the morning?
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/22/2011 7:45:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah because if he doesn't I shall knock down his door,knock him out, and take hm to a place where he spends 5 years dropping the soap and has butt-sex . . .
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: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
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PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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1/23/2011 1:16:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ummm... seems a bit oversimplified to me.

For it to be a proper analogy, all three (George, Oliver, and the Main Character) would be paying into a pool, which the Agents would then distribute based on need. Oliver needs help paying for his kids' college tuition, so he'll go to a social program which deals with student loans. Maybe George wants to send a letter and borrow a book, so he'll go to the Agent-run post office and library. And perhaps the Main Character's house catches on fire, so the Agent-run Fire Department will stop it for him.

The point is, they all use shared resources (e.g., roads, fire stations, libraries, schools, etc.), so they all pitch in. Sure, maybe George is paying more than Oliver is. And that gets into a different topic entirely. Sill, I think the video is a bit disingenuous: the video forgets that Oliver is in some small way paying for some of George's services. And that's called society, folks. We all pitch in, and we're stronger together than we are apart. :)
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J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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1/23/2011 1:23:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 1:16:33 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
Ummm... seems a bit oversimplified to me.

For it to be a proper analogy, all three (George, Oliver, and the Main Character) would be paying into a pool, which the Agents would then distribute based on need. Oliver needs help paying for his kids' college tuition, so he'll go to a social program which deals with student loans. Maybe George wants to send a letter and borrow a book, so he'll go to the Agent-run post office and library. And perhaps the Main Character's house catches on fire, so the Agent-run Fire Department will stop it for him.

What if George doesn't want to pay into the pool or receive anything out of it?

The point is, they all use shared resources (e.g., roads, fire stations, libraries, schools, etc.), so they all pitch in. Sure, maybe George is paying more than Oliver is. And that gets into a different topic entirely. Sill, I think the video is a bit disingenuous: the video forgets that Oliver is in some small way paying for some of George's services. And that's called society, folks. We all pitch in, and we're stronger together than we are apart. :)

And we can't collaborate voluntarily?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/23/2011 1:26:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 1:16:33 AM, PoeJoe wrote:

The point is, they all use shared resources (e.g., roads, fire stations, libraries, schools, etc.), so they all pitch in. Sure, maybe George is paying more than Oliver is. And that gets into a different topic entirely. Sill, I think the video is a bit disingenuous: the video forgets that Oliver is in some small way paying for some of George's services. And that's called society, folks. We all pitch in, and we're stronger together than we are apart. :)

But we pitch in for things we do not use, and for things that we should not have to provide for others. Maybe I don't want to pay for Oliver's kids, maybe I don't want to pay for Sally's methadone, or Nigel's unemployment benefits. There needs to be consent.
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/23/2011 2:05:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sure it makes some good points.

But you can make the same argument about, how a small group of people own most of the land or resources, and use force to keep that land or resources. On the same principle why should this be allowed ? why should a few people have the "ownership" of resources, backed up by force.

Force is wrong to take from those who have much to those who have little, but its ok to use force to maintain privileged of a person or group who have more than others.

I reject this double standard.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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1/23/2011 6:22:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 1:16:33 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
Ummm... seems a bit oversimplified to me.

For it to be a proper analogy, all three (George, Oliver, and the Main Character) would be paying into a pool, which the Agents would then distribute based on need. Oliver needs help paying for his kids' college tuition, so he'll go to a social program which deals with student loans. Maybe George wants to send a letter and borrow a book, so he'll go to the Agent-run post office and library. And perhaps the Main Character's house catches on fire, so the Agent-run Fire Department will stop it for him.

The point is, they all use shared resources (e.g., roads, fire stations, libraries, schools, etc.), so they all pitch in. Sure, maybe George is paying more than Oliver is. And that gets into a different topic entirely. Sill, I think the video is a bit disingenuous: the video forgets that Oliver is in some small way paying for some of George's services. And that's called society, folks. We all pitch in, and we're stronger together than we are apart. :)

By force, not by altruism. What if i don't think that it is the "right thing" as was labeled in the video? What if i have my own children to put through school and would rather not put someone else's through school? What if resources were not in such a state that we cannot afford to put anyone through school....oh wait.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/23/2011 7:32:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 2:05:27 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Sure it makes some good points.

But you can make the same argument about, how a small group of people own most of the land or resources, and use force to keep that land or resources. On the same principle why should this be allowed ? why should a few people have the "ownership" of resources, backed up by force.

Force is wrong to take from those who have much to those who have little, but its ok to use force to maintain privileged of a person or group who have more than others.

Depends how said land\resources have been acquired. If they have been acquired by non-violent means, then they have the right to use force to keep said land\resources. Simple as.


I reject this double standard.

I reject your ambiguity.
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rarugged
Posts: 172
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1/23/2011 2:01:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's an informative video and presents a myriad of difficult questions.

Nothing new, though, except putting the issue in a different light to laymen.

The game goes on... and on... and on....
If Jesus came back tomorrow, a cross would be the last thing he would want to see.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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1/25/2011 9:38:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's a well made video but a ridiculous analogy. The "threat" of the tax bill has no direct connection to the education of Oliver's kids. The "force" applied to George is the same force that protects his life, liberty and property on a daily basis. Without the "agents", Oliver would not be suffering the indignity of begging, he would be straight up robbing George. If Oliver wants to benefit from the society he lives in, he needs to contribute to it too.

The chorus from those in this thread who seem to agree with the vid is basically "what if I don't want to?"

Well, we all have aspects of society we would like to change, whether they be individual laws, financial systems or structures of government. The proscribed course of action is to campaign for reform peacefully. Either that or go set up your own free state or commune, as the ancaps are so fond of advising.