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Healthcare law unconstitutional?

CrzyDrumlineChic
Posts: 28
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2/9/2011 10:48:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd like to see the views of others pertaining to the healthcare law. Do you think it is unconstitutional? Why or why not?

I personally think it is because ot all people can afford it but it's jst my opinion, and I'm only 16 so I don't understand the whole of it, so please don't judge. Just tell me your thoughts(:

P.S. me and my boyfriend argued about this for about an hour last night (we're both debaters) and that's why I just wanted to hear some opinions
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/9/2011 11:01:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you can't afford it, you don't have to buy anything. If you have a decent job, you get health insurance anyway.. Going without health insurance is stupid if you can afford it, because just about every procedure is ridiculously expensive.

If healthcare is unconstitutional because of the 10th amendment, there are probably a lot of other laws that could be considered unconstitutional as well.

It seems to do more good than harm, and if it ends up helping people who can't afford health insurance... IT doesn't bother me f it is unconstitutional or not.

I don't feel as though my rights are being violated, so I don't care.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/9/2011 12:35:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If by unconstitutional you mean unconstitutional, then yes, the bill is unconstitutional hah.
But you get people arguing every other point why is good bill, doesn't change the fact its unconstitutional.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/9/2011 2:30:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Going without health insurance is stupid if you can afford it, because just about every procedure is ridiculously expensive.

Do you know how they got that way?

Other government rules, some of which are also unconstitutional.

If healthcare is unconstitutional because of the 10th amendment, there are probably a lot of other laws that could be considered unconstitutional as well.

And? Many other laws are unconsitutional.
Besides, it's unconstitutional because it's forced labor-- the labor to get to the health insurance office, to fill out the paperwork. Unless you can find an exception in or after the 13th amendment that's applicable to it,which condition neither the duly convicted of a crime clause nor the 16th amendment tax power fulfills (provisions in the Constitution prior to the 13th amendment are legally subordinate to it and it wins in a contradiction, that's the nature of amendments), it's unconstitutional.

I'm sure a substantive due process case against it could be made too, it's clearly depriving of both liberty and property.

It's also clearly not covered under interstate commerce-- to regulate transactions and to cause them to occur are two different things, regulation is restraint, furthermore, it's not even legal to sell health insurance across state lines, so other congressional regulations of it can't be covered under that power either. Though of course that means nothing without the 10th amendment.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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2/9/2011 3:23:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 12:35:56 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If by unconstitutional you mean unconstitutional, then yes, the bill is unconstitutional hah.
But you get people arguing every other point why is good bill, doesn't change the fact its unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court determines weather it is constitutional or not so :p
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/9/2011 4:14:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 3:23:46 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 2/9/2011 12:35:56 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If by unconstitutional you mean unconstitutional, then yes, the bill is unconstitutional hah.
But you get people arguing every other point why is good bill, doesn't change the fact its unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court determines weather it is constitutional or not so :p

No, the Supreme Court determines whether it shall be regarded as constitutional by the government.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/9/2011 4:25:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 2:30:03 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Going without health insurance is stupid if you can afford it, because just about every procedure is ridiculously expensive.


Do you know how they got that way?

Other government rules, some of which are also unconstitutional.

I would honestly be interested in hearing what rules jack up the prices so much, because if there are such rules(and they are unjustified) I hate them with a passion. =p
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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2/9/2011 4:49:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 4:14:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/9/2011 3:23:46 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 2/9/2011 12:35:56 PM, lewis20 wrote:
If by unconstitutional you mean unconstitutional, then yes, the bill is unconstitutional hah.
But you get people arguing every other point why is good bill, doesn't change the fact its unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court determines weather it is constitutional or not so :p

No, the Supreme Court determines whether it shall be regarded as constitutional by the government.

Exactly my point.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/9/2011 6:32:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 4:25:44 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/9/2011 2:30:03 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Going without health insurance is stupid if you can afford it, because just about every procedure is ridiculously expensive.


Do you know how they got that way?

Other government rules, some of which are also unconstitutional.

I would honestly be interested in hearing what rules jack up the prices so much
Tax subsidies to an inefficient model (insurance for day to day things rather than just the pricey emergencies, and for that matter employer-tied insurane) make the simplest actual procedure go through complex paperwork, and create an attitude among the insured of "buy everything whether you need it or not".
Duty to care laws make payers subsidize nonpayers.
State mandates that "all insurance must cover X condition, because the interest group for that condition donated to a legislator" mean you either have to buy insurance that covers expensive and useless treatments for things you will never get, making you subsidize the worst customers, or you can't have insurance.
among other things.
Medicare and Medicaid create customers who don't even have to keep their insurance company in business, because its revenues are guaranteed by law, so the price level is set unreasonably high.

Long answer:
http://www.theobjectivestandard.com...

Exactly my point.
But very different from what you said.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/9/2011 8:16:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 10:48:31 AM, CrzyDrumlineChic wrote:
I'd like to see the views of others pertaining to the healthcare law. Do you think it is unconstitutional? Why or why not?

The specific provision that's been deemed unconstitutional is that it is mandatory to buy insurance (Ummm, yeah, good luck with that). How it's legal for auto insurance but not for medical insurance is anyone's guess.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/9/2011 9:22:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 8:16:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/9/2011 10:48:31 AM, CrzyDrumlineChic wrote:
I'd like to see the views of others pertaining to the healthcare law. Do you think it is unconstitutional? Why or why not?

The specific provision that's been deemed unconstitutional is that it is mandatory to buy insurance (Ummm, yeah, good luck with that). How it's legal for auto insurance but not for medical insurance is anyone's guess.
It's not mandatory to buy auto insurance, especially not federally (the grounds which a court will consider rather than fallaciously ad authoritateming out of the room only apply to Congress, not the states). States make it a condition of driving on government roads is all. Health insurance has nothing analogous.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.