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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/22/2011 1:49:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
... Melo to the Knicks! And hey acquiring Billups ain't so bad either! I'm truly at a loss for words. I can't remember a time I felt that the Knicks had a legitimate chance. Sure Billups is getting older, but the combination of them + Amare Stoudemire is sweet! We might even make the playoffs ;D

First of all A.S. won't get double teamed as much, giving him the opportunity to create more plays and have more of an impact. Second, think of this trio as compared to the Heat players. The Heat have two wingmen (Wade, James) and Bosh at PF -- but he's been mediocre at times and seems unwilling to evolve his game. Meanwhile the Knicks now have a proven PG, great wing scorer and arguably the best PF in the game. Plus Melo and Chauncey are familiar with playing together. New York's fans have been wearing Melo jerseys since way before the deal even went through lol he will be received with open arms, obviously, and the energy is going to be taken to a new level. The only thing that sucks is that ticket prices have skyrocketed since yesterday >.<

All this cash flow means the Knicks have a very good chance at acquiring Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard next year... woo! *sings* Moving On Up...

Sigh :) I haven't felt this way as a Knicks fan since like 1994 lol I was 7.
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Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/22/2011 3:17:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This was a bad trade for the Nets.

- gave away Galinari
- downgraded from Anthony Randolph to Corey Brewer
- got eight years older and double the salary with Billups, and giving away Raymond Felton
- draft picks
- cash considerations

The Knickabockers have Melo and Stoudemire, two of the best players in the league, but they have no supporting cast and they gave away their future.

They'll make the playoffs, and even have the chance to beat the Bulls or Magic - they even have somewhat of a chance against the Heat - but zero chance against the Celtics. Knicks are all offense and they won't be able to score on the Celtics.
Deistdude90
Posts: 25
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2/22/2011 3:49:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If only A'mare, Melo, and D'Antoni cared about defense. Running (or "run-and-gun" as they call it now) only worked for the Showtime Lakers.

Also, Bosh is underrated. Leave him alone mid range, he'll hit that jumper everytime. He won't power his way like Dwight, but he's still too dangerous to ignore. When James or Wade are double teamed, Bosh or Miller get those open jumpshots. He was hitting them on KG (imo the best defensive pf in the game today).

Boston is just too stacked and cohesive, and we've seen that Miami almost had them. I think Miami and Boston are neck-and-neck for the best team in the league while NY is like a 5th seed in the east 9th ranking overall give or take considering the lack of depth and chemistry that has to be made.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/22/2011 3:17:16 PM, Nags wrote:
This was a bad trade for the Nets.

The Nets weren't involved in the trade...

- gave away Galinari
- downgraded from Anthony Randolph to Corey Brewer
- got eight years older and double the salary with Billups, and giving away Raymond Felton
- draft picks
- cash considerations

Completely disagree. This was an amazing trade for the Knicks. First of all this assumes that either Galinari or Randolph will reach Melo heights, and I don't think either of them ever will throughout their entire career. The same can be said about any draft pick. Carmelo is one of the biggest names in basketball; bigger than any player New York has had for as long as I can remember.

Moreover the Knicks didn't do this trade just to get ONE player - they got Billups and several others too. Billups also has double the talent (and experience) as Felton so it makes sense he gets paid twice as much. More importantly, this gives the Knicks the opportunity to make the playoffs this season. Doing so will get the Knicks A LOT of money. Their sales are going to explode (especially with new merchandise).

Finally the biggest point you seem to be ignoring is that as I said, because of this deal, next year NY will be in a financial position to pick up a BIG free agent. I'm guessing Deron Williams (!), CP3 (!) or Dwight Howard (!) -- some of the best names in basketball. This would give the Knicks a solid core trio much like the Heat have (and as I said, the Knicks are more versatile in that regard). If they could afford to acquire someone (like Howard) while keeping Billups - oh man! But I doubt that will happen. I'm pretty sure they'll get rid of Billups to get one of those amazing young PGs, so I'm not even worried about it. For now I'm happy Billups and Melo already have chemistry.

Every single one of those Knicks players they traded is easily replaceable. They will make so much money from this deal that it won't matter if some of their newly acquired players make more money.

The Knickabockers have Melo and Stoudemire, two of the best players in the league, but they have no supporting cast and they gave away their future.

No, this is the foundation for their future.

They'll make the playoffs, and even have the chance to beat the Bulls or Magic - they even have somewhat of a chance against the Heat - but zero chance against the Celtics. Knicks are all offense and they won't be able to score on the Celtics.

Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/22/2011 4:45:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/22/2011 3:49:04 PM, Deistdude90 wrote:
If only A'mare, Melo, and D'Antoni cared about defense. Running (or "run-and-gun" as they call it now) only worked for the Showtime Lakers.

Agreed. Maybe they can pull something out of their hat though ;)

Also, Bosh is underrated.

Eh... TBD.

Boston is just too stacked and cohesive, and we've seen that Miami almost had them. I think Miami and Boston are neck-and-neck for the best team in the league while NY is like a 5th seed in the east 9th ranking overall give or take considering the lack of depth and chemistry that has to be made.

I agree with this except I think the Celtics have a little bit of an edge. They're just smooth.
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Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/22/2011 4:57:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 2/22/2011 3:17:16 PM, Nags wrote:
This was a bad trade for the Nets.

The Nets weren't involved in the trade...

Grr, I meant Knicks, obviously.

You just better hope that the Knicks do indeed sign another premier player in the offseason, because their team besides Melo and Amare is brutal. They can win in the regular season by outscoring opponents, but they won't go far in the postseason doing so.
zGodMode
Posts: 825
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2/23/2011 6:57:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 2/22/2011 3:17:16 PM, Nags wrote:
This was a bad trade for the Nets.

The Nets weren't involved in the trade...

- gave away Galinari
- downgraded from Anthony Randolph to Corey Brewer
- got eight years older and double the salary with Billups, and giving away Raymond Felton
- draft picks
- cash considerations

Completely disagree. This was an amazing trade for the Knicks. First of all this assumes that either Galinari or Randolph will reach Melo heights, and I don't think either of them ever will throughout their entire career. The same can be said about any draft pick. Carmelo is one of the biggest names in basketball; bigger than any player New York has had for as long as I can remember.

It's not about them being an All-Star, it's about them being a solid supporting cast for the team, without them, you have even less options which allows for the defense to focus in on Billups, Melo and Amare. Carmelo has a huge name, but has done NOTHING to back it up. Nuggest have been a walk-over team in the play-offs ever since he's been there, at least LeBron took the Cavs deep every now and then.
Moreover the Knicks didn't do this trade just to get ONE player - they got Billups and several others too. Billups also has double the talent (and experience) as Felton so it makes sense he gets paid twice as much. More importantly, this gives the Knicks the opportunity to make the playoffs this season. Doing so will get the Knicks A LOT of money. Their sales are going to explode (especially with new merchandise).

Billups is an old dog. He was a solid player in Detroit and Denver, but he's 34 years old and definitely isn't getting any younger. Felton has been doing very well in NY this year, especially considering the players he has to work with, also looking at the fact that he's 7 years younger, you're getting rid of a young star for an old dog, no matter how you look at it. Money doesn't really change anything for the franchise to get more players, this isn't the MLB, there's a hard cap that's equal for all teams.

Finally the biggest point you seem to be ignoring is that as I said, because of this deal, next year NY will be in a financial position to pick up a BIG free agent. I'm guessing Deron Williams (!), CP3 (!) or Dwight Howard (!) -- some of the best names in basketball. This would give the Knicks a solid core trio much like the Heat have (and as I said, the Knicks are more versatile in that regard). If they could afford to acquire someone (like Howard) while keeping Billups - oh man! But I doubt that will happen. I'm pretty sure they'll get rid of Billups to get one of those amazing young PGs, so I'm not even worried about it. For now I'm happy Billups and Melo already have chemistry.

Deron is at the Nets and will probably stick there, CP3's contract doesn't expire until 2012 and Dwight won't leave Orlando for the Knicks, that's a joke. CP3 will probably want to leave NO when his contract expires, but good luck landing him, considering he's going to want big money and you're already paying Melo and Amare their monster contracts.

Every single one of those Knicks players they traded is easily replaceable. They will make so much money from this deal that it won't matter if some of their newly acquired players make more money.

The Knickabockers have Melo and Stoudemire, two of the best players in the league, but they have no supporting cast and they gave away their future.

No, this is the foundation for their future.

They'll make the playoffs, and even have the chance to beat the Bulls or Magic - they even have somewhat of a chance against the Heat - but zero chance against the Celtics. Knicks are all offense and they won't be able to score on the Celtics.

Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.

They wouldn't beat the Magic, you must be so full of Melo's name to believe that. The Bulls have more than 3 players on their team and work hard on both ends of the court, not to mention that Derrick Rose makes Chauncey look like Jordan Farmar.

As they are at the moment, the Knicks are a first round team.
Deistdude90
Posts: 25
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2/23/2011 8:00:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@zGodMode
I'm not a big fan of hyping up players and trade moves but this Carmelo move was brilliant. When 'Melo considered signing an extension with the Nuggets, that was basically him saying "Come get me or else." It would've been foolish for NY to wait considering the impending CBA battle and if Melo would re-sign or not.

NY made a good move. It would've been too unrealistic to hope the CBA goes smooth and Carmelo wouldn't be pi$$ed thus re-signing with the Nuggets or going to another team.

As a fan (NBA fan, not a Knick fan), this is great for me. In the next couple of seasons, NY will join that elite echelon. The league might even be like the 80s again with multiple elite teams instead of like three.
zGodMode
Posts: 825
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2/23/2011 9:42:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/23/2011 8:00:16 PM, Deistdude90 wrote:
@zGodMode
I'm not a big fan of hyping up players and trade moves but this Carmelo move was brilliant. When 'Melo considered signing an extension with the Nuggets, that was basically him saying "Come get me or else." It would've been foolish for NY to wait considering the impending CBA battle and if Melo would re-sign or not.

NY made a good move. It would've been too unrealistic to hope the CBA goes smooth and Carmelo wouldn't be pi$$ed thus re-signing with the Nuggets or going to another team.

As a fan (NBA fan, not a Knick fan), this is great for me. In the next couple of seasons, NY will join that elite echelon. The league might even be like the 80s again with multiple elite teams instead of like three.

I completely understand them taking this move, if I was the Knick's GM I would've made the same move, but they need to continue searching for a supporting cast and stronger players, otherwise they definitely won't reach a conference finals in another ten years.
Deistdude90
Posts: 25
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2/24/2011 7:57:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/23/2011 9:42:56 PM, zGodMode wrote:
I completely understand them taking this move, if I was the Knick's GM I would've made the same move, but they need to continue searching for a supporting cast and stronger players, otherwise they definitely won't reach a conference finals in another ten years.

Yeah, that's true. Their roster does need some tuning before it reaches Boston/Miami/LA status. I would imagine that maybe once the CBA issue is resolved and the next season starts (hopefully it won't be like '99 when it started in January/February), veteran role players would show interest in joining the team like Boston and Miami experienced.

The only thing I would see missing from the Knicks in a couple of seasons would be that defensive pressure. Hypothetically, even if they got CP3, they would still need some sort of defensive anchor. D'Antoni's gotta smarten up or the Knicks have to hit the lottery in getting someone like Dwight Howard instead of CP3 (similar to how the Lakers got Pau Gasol from Memphis). That scenario of getting D12 probably won't happen though. I can see the CP3 scenario potentially happening. CP3 is definitely interested in NY and seeing how even team owners want NO contracted, anything's possible.
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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2/27/2011 11:17:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.

Haha, if that was debatable then, what about now...
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/27/2011 11:25:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/27/2011 11:17:48 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.

Haha, if that was debatable then, what about now...

Perk was a bit overrated - he's only played in 12 games this year and the Celtics still have the #1 defense in the league. Jeff Green is a solid wingman who can score off the bench and can spell for Allen and Pierce - like James Posey in '08. At least Krstic is healthy. The Celtics got a 2012 first round draft pick too.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/28/2011 8:17:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/27/2011 11:17:48 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.

Haha, if that was debatable then, what about now...

I still don't think they can beat the Celtics :|
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zGodMode
Posts: 825
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3/1/2011 12:09:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/27/2011 11:25:52 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2011 11:17:48 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.

Haha, if that was debatable then, what about now...

Perk was a bit overrated - he's only played in 12 games this year and the Celtics still have the #1 defense in the league. Jeff Green is a solid wingman who can score off the bench and can spell for Allen and Pierce - like James Posey in '08. At least Krstic is healthy. The Celtics got a 2012 first round draft pick too.

http://bleacherreport.com...
zGodMode
Posts: 825
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3/1/2011 12:09:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 8:17:07 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 2/27/2011 11:17:48 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 2/22/2011 4:42:21 PM, Danielle wrote:
Agreed, but I don't think any team has a chance against the Celtics.

Haha, if that was debatable then, what about now...

I still don't think they can beat the Celtics :| in a 7 game series.

Fixed*
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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3/3/2011 9:23:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The only thing that's bugging me in the NBA right now is how stacked the East has gotten. How many potential All-Stars do the West have vs. the East next season? Count them off...

West- Bryant, Gasol, Duncan, Parker, Nowitzki, Cousins (?), Love (?), Scola (?), Durant, Griffin, Nash, Aldridge (?), Ellis (?), Ginobili, Kidd (?)

That's all that comes to mind off of the top of my head. Now the East...

East- Rondo, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Stoudemire, Billups, Melo, James, Bosh, Wade, Paul, Rose, Smith (?), Howard, Arenas (?), Turkoglu (?), Prince (?), Joe Johnson, Boozer, Horford, Jamison, Hamilton, Williams

The West has a lot of building to do. I remember last year when every team from the 5th seed down in the Eastern Conference was under .500
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/7/2011 12:22:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Pretty sad loss to the Magic, but the Knicks had an awesome game against Atlanta yesterday - even without Billups. The bench was pretty hot. The Knicks are back! Ahh :D
President of DDO
zGodMode
Posts: 825
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3/7/2011 4:53:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 12:22:26 PM, Danielle wrote:
Pretty sad loss to the Magic, but the Knicks had an awesome game against Atlanta yesterday - even without Billups. The bench was pretty hot. The Knicks are back! Ahh :D

As I've said all year.
Regular season doesn't matter.
Loserboi
Posts: 1,232
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3/7/2011 6:10:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 4:53:25 PM, zGodMode wrote:
At 3/7/2011 12:22:26 PM, Danielle wrote:
Pretty sad loss to the Magic, but the Knicks had an awesome game against Atlanta yesterday - even without Billups. The bench was pretty hot. The Knicks are back! Ahh :D

As I've said all year.
Regular season doesn't matter.

This is true for the NBA unless your in the top 3 seeds you are most likely not going to win the finals.
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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3/24/2011 12:55:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 12:22:26 PM, Danielle wrote:
The Knicks are back! Ahh :D

Lol
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
Andre3000
Posts: 7
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4/14/2011 11:20:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
with all the talent the Knicks have and could get their not going anywhere when there is Miami Celtics bulls and magic in their way