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Packers: Doing fine? Or need to step it up?

Lasagna
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9/23/2011 12:42:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Everybody is worried about the Packers' record-setting defense in yards allowed. What are the predictions? Will the Packers prove that they know what they are doing? Or are the wheels about to fall off?
Rob
Lasagna
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9/23/2011 12:51:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
...and what of this difficulty to repeat? How does that play into it? Teams try harder because we went to the Superbowl? How does that translate into them playing better against us... you would think that teams are trying to win every game anyway...
Rob
BlackVoid
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9/23/2011 1:01:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Defenses are just struggling because of the lack of training camp. I read an article on ESPN the other day about how defenses need camp more than offenses because their assignments are more complex. It takes weeks for he DB's to get in sync the others and understand who should be covering who when X play is called and Y receiver in in Z area. Whereas on offense, people just have to worry about their individual assignments. Defenses should be fine in a couple more weeks of practice.
Lasagna
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9/23/2011 1:20:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 1:01:30 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Defenses are just struggling because of the lack of training camp. I read an article on ESPN the other day about how defenses need camp more than offenses because their assignments are more complex. It takes weeks for he DB's to get in sync the others and understand who should be covering who when X play is called and Y receiver in in Z area. Whereas on offense, people just have to worry about their individual assignments. Defenses should be fine in a couple more weeks of practice.

Yeah that seems to be the logical answer... I mean the way it's going, Marino's 25 year passing record is going to be broken by five guys this year. Obviously there is some serious advantages for offenses right now and either they are going to settle out as the season progresses or they are going to even out amongst all teams. The rules are one thing, and the lack of practice definitely seems to be taking a toll. Running a route is a lot easier than trying to defend one. Tackling also requires good timing which needs to be worked on.
Rob
Lasagna
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9/23/2011 7:42:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 5:56:18 PM, Loserboi wrote:
stupid there is already talk about them going undefeated this season... they are doing fine

Weird thing about football is you can go 18-0 and then lose the whole thing by a few points on a freak play... So yeah the D could fail just for an extremely short period of time and cost them, I suppose.
Rob
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/24/2011 8:11:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The rules in place definitely favor the offense. For instance, defenders can't touch receivers beyond 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. They must get turned around toward the line on passes if they want to put their hands up to knock down a throw. They are limited in how they can use their hands to take on blockers, who are less limited in that area than they once were.

Quarterbacks are more protected than ever - you rough one up on the head or neck or whatever and you're fvcked, but they have the freedom to ground the ball from anywhere outside the pocket without being penalized. That's something that really bothers me. The QB is allowed to run the ball, so they essentially also double as the Half Back position. However they are allowed to slide and get all kinds of special protections despite being a threat in that regard. It's simply not fair. Yes, the QB to any team is super important, but EVERY player can be really important. What about a team like the Vikings -- who would you rather have in the game: RB Adrian Peterson, or rookie QB Christian Ponder? I think it's obvious Peterson has a bigger impact, yet the QB gets more protection.

Also, keep in mind how defenders are pretty terrified about hitting someone the wrong way and being fined all kinds of money. I dunno. It's just not fair.

The Packers defense will be fine... they're winning games, aren't they? I think this high-pass offense style is just becoming a trend around the NFL in general, which is why 5 QBs, including a rookie, are currently on pace to break Marino's record.
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Lasagna
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9/24/2011 9:04:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 8:11:31 AM, Danielle wrote:
The rules in place definitely favor the offense. For instance, defenders can't touch receivers beyond 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. They must get turned around toward the line on passes if they want to put their hands up to knock down a throw.

I didn't know that... you're saying that if I'm covering you, and I put my arms up without even touching you, that there's a penalty for that? What is it called? Hands to the face?

They are limited in how they can use their hands to take on blockers, who are less limited in that area than they once were.

Quarterbacks are more protected than ever - you rough one up on the head or neck or whatever and you're fvcked, but they have the freedom to ground the ball from anywhere outside the pocket without being penalized. That's something that really bothers me. The QB is allowed to run the ball, so they essentially also double as the Half Back position. However they are allowed to slide and get all kinds of special protections despite being a threat in that regard. It's simply not fair. Yes, the QB to any team is super important, but EVERY player can be really important. What about a team like the Vikings -- who would you rather have in the game: RB Adrian Peterson, or rookie QB Christian Ponder? I think it's obvious Peterson has a bigger impact, yet the QB gets more protection.

Also, keep in mind how defenders are pretty terrified about hitting someone the wrong way and being fined all kinds of money. I dunno. It's just not fair.

The Packers defense will be fine... they're winning games, aren't they? I think this high-pass offense style is just becoming a trend around the NFL in general, which is why 5 QBs, including a rookie, are currently on pace to break Marino's record.

Yeah Pack seems to cause turnovers and get the critical red-zone stands. This could be the new flavor of the NFL - not defenses that are necessarily good at causing 3 and outs, but defenses - like the Pack and Saints - who are good at forcing turnovers and sacks and making the critical red-zone stops when the field is shortened. You can give up 800 yards, but if you force 3 or 4 turnovers and only allow field goals, Rodgers is still going to have an easy time outscoring them. However it only takes one slip-up in the NFL to lose out for the year, and it's difficult to imagine that our defense is play-off worthy right now.
Rob
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/24/2011 2:20:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 12:42:48 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Everybody is worried about the Packers' record-setting defense in yards allowed. What are the predictions? Will the Packers prove that they know what they are doing? Or are the wheels about to fall off?

I guess we'll find out about that tomorrow won't we cheese breath.

Da Bears!!!
freedomsquared
Posts: 450
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9/24/2011 2:20:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 9:04:09 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/24/2011 8:11:31 AM, Danielle wrote:
The rules in place definitely favor the offense. For instance, defenders can't touch receivers beyond 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. They must get turned around toward the line on passes if they want to put their hands up to knock down a throw.

I didn't know that... you're saying that if I'm covering you, and I put my arms up without even touching you, that there's a penalty for that? What is it called? Hands to the face?

Yes, it's pass interference to hold your hands up in the air without turning back towards the QB to look for the ball.

They are limited in how they can use their hands to take on blockers, who are less limited in that area than they once were.

Quarterbacks are more protected than ever - you rough one up on the head or neck or whatever and you're fvcked, but they have the freedom to ground the ball from anywhere outside the pocket without being penalized. That's something that really bothers me. The QB is allowed to run the ball, so they essentially also double as the Half Back position. However they are allowed to slide and get all kinds of special protections despite being a threat in that regard. It's simply not fair. Yes, the QB to any team is super important, but EVERY player can be really important. What about a team like the Vikings -- who would you rather have in the game: RB Adrian Peterson, or rookie QB Christian Ponder? I think it's obvious Peterson has a bigger impact, yet the QB gets more protection.

Also, keep in mind how defenders are pretty terrified about hitting someone the wrong way and being fined all kinds of money. I dunno. It's just not fair.

The Packers defense will be fine... they're winning games, aren't they? I think this high-pass offense style is just becoming a trend around the NFL in general, which is why 5 QBs, including a rookie, are currently on pace to break Marino's record.

Yeah Pack seems to cause turnovers and get the critical red-zone stands. This could be the new flavor of the NFL - not defenses that are necessarily good at causing 3 and outs, but defenses - like the Pack and Saints - who are good at forcing turnovers and sacks and making the critical red-zone stops when the field is shortened. You can give up 800 yards, but if you force 3 or 4 turnovers and only allow field goals, Rodgers is still going to have an easy time outscoring them. However it only takes one slip-up in the NFL to lose out for the year, and it's difficult to imagine that our defense is play-off worthy right now.

I agree that our defense needs some work, but I think that they will get there. There is no reason they should be worse than last season, and in fact, they should improve. I am a huge fan of the "bend-but-don't-break" style of defense and I am glad that the Packers fall under that category.
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Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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9/24/2011 5:39:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 2:20:13 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 12:42:48 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Everybody is worried about the Packers' record-setting defense in yards allowed. What are the predictions? Will the Packers prove that they know what they are doing? Or are the wheels about to fall off?

I guess we'll find out about that tomorrow won't we cheese breath.

Da Bears!!!

Bears' schedule is absolutely horrible - what did they do to piss off the league administrators? Pack x2, Lions x2, Chargers, Eagles, Saints, Falcons, Bucs, and the Cam Newton show. If they go 8-8 it will be like a normal 10-6.
Rob
Lasagna
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9/24/2011 6:14:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 2:20:42 PM, freedomsquared wrote:
At 9/24/2011 9:04:09 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/24/2011 8:11:31 AM, Danielle wrote:
The rules in place definitely favor the offense. For instance, defenders can't touch receivers beyond 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. They must get turned around toward the line on passes if they want to put their hands up to knock down a throw.

I didn't know that... you're saying that if I'm covering you, and I put my arms up without even touching you, that there's a penalty for that? What is it called? Hands to the face?

Yes, it's pass interference to hold your hands up in the air without turning back towards the QB to look for the ball.

I just can't picture that being called in a game and everyone sitting around like "... OK." If that happened everyone would be roaring "WHAT THE UFCK HE DIDN'T EVEN TOUCH HIM!!"

They are limited in how they can use their hands to take on blockers, who are less limited in that area than they once were.

Quarterbacks are more protected than ever - you rough one up on the head or neck or whatever and you're fvcked, but they have the freedom to ground the ball from anywhere outside the pocket without being penalized. That's something that really bothers me. The QB is allowed to run the ball, so they essentially also double as the Half Back position. However they are allowed to slide and get all kinds of special protections despite being a threat in that regard. It's simply not fair. Yes, the QB to any team is super important, but EVERY player can be really important. What about a team like the Vikings -- who would you rather have in the game: RB Adrian Peterson, or rookie QB Christian Ponder? I think it's obvious Peterson has a bigger impact, yet the QB gets more protection.

Also, keep in mind how defenders are pretty terrified about hitting someone the wrong way and being fined all kinds of money. I dunno. It's just not fair.

The Packers defense will be fine... they're winning games, aren't they? I think this high-pass offense style is just becoming a trend around the NFL in general, which is why 5 QBs, including a rookie, are currently on pace to break Marino's record.

Yeah Pack seems to cause turnovers and get the critical red-zone stands. This could be the new flavor of the NFL - not defenses that are necessarily good at causing 3 and outs, but defenses - like the Pack and Saints - who are good at forcing turnovers and sacks and making the critical red-zone stops when the field is shortened. You can give up 800 yards, but if you force 3 or 4 turnovers and only allow field goals, Rodgers is still going to have an easy time outscoring them. However it only takes one slip-up in the NFL to lose out for the year, and it's difficult to imagine that our defense is play-off worthy right now.

I agree that our defense needs some work, but I think that they will get there. There is no reason they should be worse than last season, and in fact, they should improve. I am a huge fan of the "bend-but-don't-break" style of defense and I am glad that the Packers fall under that category.

Packers could be returning to form, or perhaps this Packers team is just different than they were in 2010. It makes sense to imagine that they decided that in order to stay on top, they'll have to do better than "business as usual" and instead remain dynamic and on the cusp, especially as the defending champs who everybody's studying to find their weaknesses. Last year, everybody was talking up how good GB's passing and pass defense was. I couldn't find the stats, but we were ranked #5 in pass yards allowed and right up there in offensive passing. Where we sucked was rushing. We were in the 20s in both offensive yards gained and defensive yards allowed. Look at our team's rankings this year:

Off pass rank: 8th
Off rush rank: 11th
def pass rank: 32nd
def rush rank: 6th

Now all anyone can talk about is our 400.0 pass yards allowed. It's a sore thumb and the 800 pound gorilla, of course. But what nobody is talking about is how we've totally stepped it up in the rushing game on both sides of the ball. Last year it was a nightmare on rush plays, but now we have that run game to pound it in in the red zone and also to stop teams in the red zone. The red zone is much more important than it ever was right now. They can get hundreds of yards shredding our secondary in the middle of the field, just to get stuffed, intercepted, or suddenly sacked and drained of momentum. Our offense now has a run-game which is frankly not even fair, and even Tom Brady's Pats and Drew Brees' Saints don't have offenses as scary as ours. Packers are averaging 36 points a game right now and it really doesn't take many of the stops they are so good at to win the game.

Compared to the Pats, who are just about equal in points scored and given up (Pats are .5 points better in Off and 4 points better on Def):

Off pass rank: 1st
Off rush rank: 16th
Def pass rank: 31st
Def rush rank: 11th

So the two most overwhelmingly potent teams in the league are both absolutely horrible on defending the pass. Pats give up 381 ypg, a mere 19 less than the Packers. But the Pack is ranked 5 spots above the Pats on both sides of the ball for rushing. If the Pack were to play the Pats right now, both QBs would be eating cake in mid-field, but the Packers would have a decisive edge in the running game.
Rob
Lasagna
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9/24/2011 9:05:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 7:28:26 PM, Loserboi wrote:
only worry if they lose nick collins for a long period of time he is a key part of their defense.

Yeah he WASN'T part of the list of injured last year that we made it through without.
Rob
Lasagna
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9/25/2011 8:58:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Burnett stepped it up with 2 picks today I think Collins' spot is covered ;)

Packers gave up 11 yards rushing today, I believe. They should have the #1 rush defense after this week.

3 TDs for Finley. Poor Bears.
Rob
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/29/2011 7:37:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/24/2011 5:39:02 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/24/2011 2:20:13 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 12:42:48 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Everybody is worried about the Packers' record-setting defense in yards allowed. What are the predictions? Will the Packers prove that they know what they are doing? Or are the wheels about to fall off?

I guess we'll find out about that tomorrow won't we cheese breath.

Da Bears!!!

Bears' schedule is absolutely horrible - what did they do to piss off the league administrators? Pack x2, Lions x2, Chargers, Eagles, Saints, Falcons, Bucs, and the Cam Newton show. If they go 8-8 it will be like a normal 10-6.

I hate losing to Green Bay, but I don't mind a tough schedule so much. It's tough but if we're a championship calibur club we're going to have win alot of those games. Who expected the Lions, Bucs, and Panthers to be the teams they have shown so far.
Lasagna
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9/29/2011 8:54:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/29/2011 7:37:12 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/24/2011 5:39:02 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/24/2011 2:20:13 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 12:42:48 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Everybody is worried about the Packers' record-setting defense in yards allowed. What are the predictions? Will the Packers prove that they know what they are doing? Or are the wheels about to fall off?

I guess we'll find out about that tomorrow won't we cheese breath.

Da Bears!!!

Bears' schedule is absolutely horrible - what did they do to piss off the league administrators? Pack x2, Lions x2, Chargers, Eagles, Saints, Falcons, Bucs, and the Cam Newton show. If they go 8-8 it will be like a normal 10-6.

I hate losing to Green Bay, but I don't mind a tough schedule so much. It's tough but if we're a championship calibur club we're going to have win alot of those games.

OK.

Who expected the Lions, Bucs, and Panthers to be the teams they have shown so far.

wut?
Rob