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Joe Paterno

Johnicle
Posts: 888
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11/10/2011 1:43:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I find it ironic that we as a society so quickly strip Joe Paterno of his dignity for his inability to act on hearsay, but we so blindly support the Pope who has intentionally covered up dozens of instances of sexual molestation of children. (and by we I mean arrogant idiots who don't know what they support).
Johnicle
Posts: 888
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11/10/2011 2:19:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is it sad that I wanted to post this on my facebook, but knew how it could effect me later in life (friends looking down on me, employment, etc.) so came on here where the atmosphere is rather anonymous. Then again, I live in a state that is arrogant in its ignorance.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/10/2011 2:20:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
*reads some news to find out wtf is up*

*Wishes praying to smite idiots were effective.*
Wtf? The guy passed it on to his superior, whose job description involves dealing with that situation. Why would you expect a college football coach, who neither works with law nor with children, to be a competent investigator of child rape?

Sure, fire the superior who didn't then pass it further along (to the dean or the police or something) but that's a different issue.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/10/2011 8:55:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 1:43:49 AM, Johnicle wrote:
I find it ironic that we as a society so quickly strip Joe Paterno of his dignity for his inability to act on hearsay, but we so blindly support the Pope who has intentionally covered up dozens of instances of sexual molestation of children. (and by we I mean arrogant idiots who don't know what they support).

Great point. Quoted it on my FB. I haven't heard the latest of info, and won't really have an opinion until I do.
President of DDO
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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11/10/2011 9:29:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think that they should have let him stay until the end of of the season.
He did what he thought was right, but unfortunately it was on someone elses watch and the results did not turn out well.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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11/10/2011 9:58:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
You don't have to be a police investigator to know that when you catch a man in the shower with a 10 year old boy that something needs to be reported.
Rob
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/10/2011 10:04:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 9:58:08 AM, Lasagna wrote:
You don't have to be a police investigator to know that when you catch a man in the shower with a 10 year old boy that something needs to be reported.

He didn't catch anyone in the shower. Someone apparently saw the incident, but that's hearsay. Now I'm not sure who exactly is in charge of the PSU football program, be it Paterno or the AD. If Paterno is responsible for the hiring/firing of assistant coaches or what have you, then of course he is at fault for what he failed to do. However if he is supposed to just report up the chain of command to the AD, then it is the AD's fault and not his. Regardless, we know he could have (and should have) done more, but I think the OP's analogy is still a decent one.
President of DDO
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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11/10/2011 10:34:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 10:04:41 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 11/10/2011 9:58:08 AM, Lasagna wrote:
You don't have to be a police investigator to know that when you catch a man in the shower with a 10 year old boy that something needs to be reported.

He didn't catch anyone in the shower. Someone apparently saw the incident, but that's hearsay. Now I'm not sure who exactly is in charge of the PSU football program, be it Paterno or the AD. If Paterno is responsible for the hiring/firing of assistant coaches or what have you, then of course he is at fault for what he failed to do. However if he is supposed to just report up the chain of command to the AD, then it is the AD's fault and not his. Regardless, we know he could have (and should have) done more, but I think the OP's analogy is still a decent one.

It was brought to Paterno's attention that an assistant was showering with 10 year old boys. He had a choice - say something, or bury it. He buried it. Case closed. He's old enough to know what kind of stigma is attached to child molestation and if he didn't realize he would be burned at the stake for it then he's a f*cking idiot.

He has been fired FYI.
Rob
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/10/2011 10:45:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I actually agree that he should be done. Not sure if I think that he should have been fired over the phone, or forced out at the end of the year, but out nonetheless.

Even though it is hearsay, that is no reason not to report it to the proper authorities. In cases of potential child molestation, your boss is not the proper authority. While they should be notified of the situation, the responsibilities don't end there. Of course, whoever it was that reported it to Paterno should have also gone to the police. But Paterno can only control what he can do, not others.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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11/10/2011 11:04:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 10:45:49 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually agree that he should be done. Not sure if I think that he should have been fired over the phone, or forced out at the end of the year, but out nonetheless.

Even though it is hearsay, that is no reason not to report it to the proper authorities. In cases of potential child molestation, your boss is not the proper authority. While they should be notified of the situation, the responsibilities don't end there. Of course, whoever it was that reported it to Paterno should have also gone to the police. But Paterno can only control what he can do, not others.

Paterno showed bad judgment - a curious attribute for someone who makes his bread off of making smart decisions. If he had said "OMG what's going on I didn't know about this" or something to that effect when it first came out, then I would be skeptical. But he didn't... he came out with some half-azzed bullhsit explanation about how "it's a rough life when people do things to you" and "let's pray for him or whatever" and it was pretty obvious right away that yes, this man is obviously emotionally unattached to the situation and continues to be. To this moment he has not the empathic sense to truly comprehend what has transpired. Perhaps so many years in the locker-room setting has dulled his emotions, as it has been shown to do. At any rate, he deserves to be fired and it would be a complete blunder not to do so.
Rob
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/10/2011 11:42:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Paterno is a football coach, he is right to assume that the athletic director is supposed to be more competent to speak with authorities on matters related to employee crime.

Paterno makes his money off of making smart FOOTBALL decisions.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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11/10/2011 12:21:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 11:42:59 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Paterno is a football coach, he is right to assume that the athletic director is supposed to be more competent to speak with authorities on matters related to employee crime.

Paterno makes his money off of making smart FOOTBALL decisions.

Ragnar you can be so naive sometimes. Do you think Paterno's coach, when hiring him, said "you can do whatever you want (e.g., tarnishing our reputation) as long as you make smart football decisions?"
Rob
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/10/2011 12:27:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 11:42:59 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Paterno is a football coach, he is right to assume that the athletic director is supposed to be more competent to speak with authorities on matters related to employee crime.

Paterno makes his money off of making smart FOOTBALL decisions.

I would also bet my bottom dollar that in his contract, that there is a public image clause, that he needs to act in a manner that is in the school's best public imagine (I'm a lowely credit analyst and we have that clause in our employee handbook, which applies to EVERYONE).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/10/2011 12:42:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I never defended Joe Paterno. I said it'd be good to get more information. I read something where Joe said he "vaguely" remembered someone mentioning touching or whatever, but the person who witnessed the shower incident didn't indicate sodomy or rape of any kind when he told Paterno about it. Now, that's likely bullsh!t - and either way, being in the shower with a child regardless should be enough of a red flag. Again, I'm not excusing what he did. I'm just saying I wish we knew more about the extent of his negligence before making a statement like he absolutely should be fired immediately or whatever.
President of DDO
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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11/10/2011 1:16:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 12:42:29 PM, Danielle wrote:
I'm just saying I wish we knew more about the extent of his negligence before making a statement like he absolutely should be fired immediately or whatever.

If you want to talk about civil/criminal charges, then I agree. In fact, that's pretty much what's happening, as I don't see anyone calling for his head at the second. But as far as his job? Toast. He's a public figure. Public figures know that guilt is moot when they take the job. His team is already under "official" threat when they head to Nebraska:

http://espn.go.com...

Kids will be stoning people with batteries in socks if Paterno shows up.

When I was in HS, I remember being in the lunch room and catching a rumor that this kid tried doing something shady with this other kid's younger brother. I remember thinking "wow... I wonder if that's really true." The kid, who I had never met before, was a few tables down in the lunch room and I noticed that kids had already started walking by him and throwing punches into his ribs while he was sitting there eating with his friends. The next day he had been removed permanently from school. Nobody cared whether it was true.

He's just too big to be accused of that sort of thing and if he isn't fired then people are going to get hurt.
Rob
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/10/2011 1:36:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thank you for showing how uncivilized the people after Paterno are, Lasagna. :P

Do you think Paterno's coach, when hiring him, said "you can do whatever you want (e.g., tarnishing our reputation)
He didn't tarnish anyone's reputation, the Sandusky guy did.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Johnicle
Posts: 888
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11/10/2011 1:47:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 1:36:50 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Thank you for showing how uncivilized the people after Paterno are, Lasagna. :P

Do you think Paterno's coach, when hiring him, said "you can do whatever you want (e.g., tarnishing our reputation)
He didn't tarnish anyone's reputation, the Sandusky guy did.

This.

Also THIS JUST IN: The guy who saw the original incident, who has later become a full-time coach for the team, has not been fired and will coach this weekend against Nebraska. ANNNNNNNND fail.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/11/2011 1:23:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/10/2011 1:47:15 PM, Johnicle wrote:
At 11/10/2011 1:36:50 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Thank you for showing how uncivilized the people after Paterno are, Lasagna. :P

Do you think Paterno's coach, when hiring him, said "you can do whatever you want (e.g., tarnishing our reputation)
He didn't tarnish anyone's reputation, the Sandusky guy did.

This.

Also THIS JUST IN: The guy who saw the original incident, who has later become a full-time coach for the team, has not been fired and will coach this weekend against Nebraska. ANNNNNNNND fail.

I WAS JUST GOING TO MAKE THIS EXACT POINT.

The guy who SAW the incident (and told Paterno) was given Paterno's job, so clearly that negates every single point about the school's reputation, obligation of moral responsibility, etc. It makes no sense.
President of DDO