Total Posts:22|Showing Posts:1-22
Jump to topic:

"Sport" Semantics

Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2012 6:49:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So in keeping with the tangent in the "Ultimate" thread, I'd like to know what ya'll have to say about the term "sport." What should it include?

Obviously, things like baseball, basketball, and hockey are shoe-ins. What are the arguments for:
- Nascar
- MMA/Boxing/Wrestling
- Rock-climbing/hiking/Swimming
- Chess
- BMX/Snowboarding/Skiing/Rollerblading
Rob
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2012 6:50:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The whole OP depends on, what do we define a sport as?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2012 1:16:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Google says: "An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others."

Does anyone have a better idea for a definition? I've noticed that sometimes the standard dictionary meanings for words don't do them justice...
Rob
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2012 1:23:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 1:16:45 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Google says: "An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others."

Does anyone have a better idea for a definition? I've noticed that sometimes the standard dictionary meanings for words don't do them justice...

Yeah, for instance hunting is considered a sport (and does involve physical skill and exertion) but I don't consider it as such because half the agents involved don't know they're "playing" and they're certainly not "competing." It's more like... they're prancing along and then get shot.
President of DDO
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2012 7:29:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm surprised no better qualifications have been made other than "sports." A friend of mine told me she wasn't into "field sports" the other day, in an effort to express her desire to hike, run, and rock-climb while not liking more traditional ball-sports. But these terms seem rather inefficient.

I think that "true sports" should specifically mean the most obvious kinds, which are
- human vs. human
- dependent on stamina, speed, and strength, and dexterity
- artificial in nature, both in that there is at least a moderately-developed rules system and also some artificial medium towards which the activity is centered (typically a ball).

Other categories of "sport" that would be separate from this:
- Fighting (wrestling, MMA, boxing)
- Missile (darts, archery, hunting/shooting, blowgun, throwing blades, javelin)
- Table (pool, shuffleboard, ski-ball)
- Motorized (dirtbike, Nascar, snow/skimobiling)
- Natural (hiking, fishing, rock-climbing... probably the largest category)
- Training (running, weights, yoga, calisthetics)
- Non-physical (video games, boardgames, cardgames)

So these other categories approach true sports in some fashion but cannot satisfy the requirements fully, so must be designated to categories like this.
Rob
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2012 11:41:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 6:49:04 PM, Lasagna wrote:
- Nascar
NO
- MMA/Boxing/Wrestling
Yes
- Rock-climbing/hiking/Swimming
Yes
- Ches
No
- BMX/Snowboarding/Skiing/Rollerblading
Yes

Some argue that NASCAR is a sport because the drivers have to be in shape. That may be, but the vehicle itself is what is actually crossing the finish line. The engine in this case is what is doing the real work, not the driver. I think sports should test physical ability, which all of my yes's do. NASCAR may involve physical ability, but to win requires much more then that.
jedipengiun
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/26/2012 10:57:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would you consider Poker to be a sport? It is often argued by many that play, good poker players have to be in good physical fitness as they play for many hours and it helps maintain stamina and concentration?
Things that make me happy!

: At 6/22/2012 1:46:11 PM, Kinesis wrote:
: Also, as an Englishman I'm obligated to be prejudiced against gingers and the French.

: At 8/27/2012 10:00:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
: Every self-respecting philosopher needs to smoke a pipe.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/26/2012 4:04:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 10:57:52 AM, jedipengiun wrote:
Would you consider Poker to be a sport? It is often argued by many that play, good poker players have to be in good physical fitness as they play for many hours and it helps maintain stamina and concentration?

Couldn't that same logic be applied to any intellectual activity? Don't you need stamina to study? Isn't a skill to strengthen your brain to be able to memorize and store/process particular information better?
President of DDO
jedipengiun
Posts: 169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/27/2012 4:55:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 4:04:51 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/26/2012 10:57:52 AM, jedipengiun wrote:
Would you consider Poker to be a sport? It is often argued by many that play, good poker players have to be in good physical fitness as they play for many hours and it helps maintain stamina and concentration?

Couldn't that same logic be applied to any intellectual activity? Don't you need stamina to study? Isn't a skill to strengthen your brain to be able to memorize and store/process particular information better?

Things like chess and backgammon maybe it can.
Isn't studying different in that it is the learning rather than application of a skill, and to apply these over 8 hours or more? To play poker would be to apply manoeuvre's, tactics but to learn poker is to study things like manoeuvre's and tactics.
SportAccord doesn't consider it a sport, however it does consider chess a sport.
Things that make me happy!

: At 6/22/2012 1:46:11 PM, Kinesis wrote:
: Also, as an Englishman I'm obligated to be prejudiced against gingers and the French.

: At 8/27/2012 10:00:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
: Every self-respecting philosopher needs to smoke a pipe.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 3:14:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why was THIS the 500th topic?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 3:19:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 3:14:31 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Why was THIS the 500th topic?

Just lucky I guess haha... Although it seems like an especially legit topic.. after 499 topics, we'll finally figure out what should and shouldn't be considered a sport...

Is synchronized swimming a sport?
It is in the Olympics right? (not that this necessarily makes it a sport)
Debate.org Moderator
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.
Sapere Aude!
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.
Debate.org Moderator
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 10:28:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.

Oh no sir. Look up what the Le Mans is. The reflexes, skill, talent, and endurance required for that is immense. NASCAR, likely not. But Le Mans....yes.
Sapere Aude!
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 10:35:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 7:29:57 PM, Lasagna wrote:
I think that "true sports" should specifically mean the most obvious kinds, which are
- human vs. human
- dependent on stamina, speed, and strength, and dexterity
- artificial in nature, both in that there is at least a moderately-developed rules system and also some artificial medium towards which the activity is centered (typically a ball).

I think I agree with these qualifications. I was about to make a post on what I thought about it and it basically went along the lines of: Some sort of skill is necessarily, there is a coherent system of rules governing behavior and/or the goal of the sport, and it's competitive (people are playing against other people).
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 10:36:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 10:57:52 AM, jedipengiun wrote:
Would you consider Poker to be a sport? It is often argued by many that play, good poker players have to be in good physical fitness as they play for many hours and it helps maintain stamina and concentration?

I think so. There are rules, it requires skill, and it's competitive. These are the base qualifications I think of when thinking about what makes a sport.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/29/2012 1:20:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 10:28:45 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.

Oh no sir. Look up what the Le Mans is. The reflexes, skill, talent, and endurance required for that is immense. NASCAR, likely not. But Le Mans....yes.

I'm a world class Tetris player. It takes reflexes, skill, talent, focus and endurance for long matches and competitive play. But it's definitely not a sport. I'm not saying Le Mans doesn't require skill, but if a machine is doing by far most of the work, is it really a sport?

And since those characteristics can be applied to things that aren't sports, these criteria certainly can't be enough to define sports.
Debate.org Moderator
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/29/2012 1:24:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:20:32 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 10:28:45 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.

Oh no sir. Look up what the Le Mans is. The reflexes, skill, talent, and endurance required for that is immense. NASCAR, likely not. But Le Mans....yes.

I'm a world class Tetris player. It takes reflexes, skill, talent, focus and endurance for long matches and competitive play. But it's definitely not a sport. I'm not saying Le Mans doesn't require skill, but if a machine is doing by far most of the work, is it really a sport?

And since those characteristics can be applied to things that aren't sports, these criteria certainly can't be enough to define sports.

WTF?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/29/2012 4:32:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:24:53 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 5/29/2012 1:20:32 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 10:28:45 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.

Oh no sir. Look up what the Le Mans is. The reflexes, skill, talent, and endurance required for that is immense. NASCAR, likely not. But Le Mans....yes.

I'm a world class Tetris player. It takes reflexes, skill, talent, focus and endurance for long matches and competitive play. But it's definitely not a sport. I'm not saying Le Mans doesn't require skill, but if a machine is doing by far most of the work, is it really a sport?

And since those characteristics can be applied to things that aren't sports, these criteria certainly can't be enough to define sports.


WTF?

Maybe it doesn't take reflexes.. Maybe it doesn't even take skill.. Perhaps its just from playing so much as a teenager that it's become instinctive how to optimize efficiency at every moment, with every move.

Seeing the next move requires the reflex of a thumb movement and button press and the speed with which that happens. I'm using Tetris as the example, but it could be applied to plenty of other things skirting the line between sport and not-sport.

As you'll see in the vids, at a certain level it's all about reflexes and instinct, even finger dexterity, something we could then say makes it a sport, while I'm insisting it doesn't. So clearly the criteria need to be more strictly defined.
Debate.org Moderator
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/29/2012 9:14:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't think there has to be competition for there to be a sport.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/29/2012 2:19:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:20:32 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 10:28:45 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.

Oh no sir. Look up what the Le Mans is. The reflexes, skill, talent, and endurance required for that is immense. NASCAR, likely not. But Le Mans....yes.

I'm a world class Tetris player. It takes reflexes, skill, talent, focus and endurance for long matches and competitive play. But it's definitely not a sport. I'm not saying Le Mans doesn't require skill, but if a machine is doing by far most of the work, is it really a sport?

And since those characteristics can be applied to things that aren't sports, these criteria certainly can't be enough to define sports.

How many of your matches are 8 hours long in a 24 hour straight competition?
Sapere Aude!
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/29/2012 2:43:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 2:19:14 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 1:20:32 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 10:28:45 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 9:14:28 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/28/2012 4:24:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
For those who don't think NASCAR is a sport, can a race like Le Mans be considered a sport? That's takes some serious skill and endurance.

I don't know enough about Nascar to really say much about it. But if the only criteria is skill and endurance, then the World Series of Poker can be considered a sport. I think some amount of athleticism and physical exertion should be required in a sport, and car racing seems to be contentious (or outright denied) within the parameters of sports definitions in this thread.

Oh no sir. Look up what the Le Mans is. The reflexes, skill, talent, and endurance required for that is immense. NASCAR, likely not. But Le Mans....yes.

I'm a world class Tetris player. It takes reflexes, skill, talent, focus and endurance for long matches and competitive play. But it's definitely not a sport. I'm not saying Le Mans doesn't require skill, but if a machine is doing by far most of the work, is it really a sport?

And since those characteristics can be applied to things that aren't sports, these criteria certainly can't be enough to define sports.

How many of your matches are 8 hours long in a 24 hour straight competition?

None. So you're saying if I did play 8 straight hours of competitive Tetris it would then be a sport?

I'm not saying Le mans isn't a sport. I'm just saying the characteristics you have given aren't necessarily indicative of what a sport is yet.

As indicated by this thread, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on how to define it.
Debate.org Moderator