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Tyson Vs Ali

johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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6/26/2012 11:11:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not sure if anyone else here really follows boxing. I am a fan and I enjoy it myself. I was hoping to start a discussion on this interesting subject.

Considering both fighters are in their physical primes, who wins? Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali.

Go.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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6/26/2012 11:42:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nobody could fvck with Tyson. Didn't even need a full round to finish off opponents much of the time. Did they make a Nintendo game after Ali? Of course not. Tyson's punch out mutherfuc7er what?
Rob
johnnyboy54
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6/26/2012 11:51:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 11:42:40 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Nobody could fvck with Tyson. Didn't even need a full round to finish off opponents much of the time. Did they make a Nintendo game after Ali? Of course not. Tyson's punch out mutherfuc7er what?

Mike Tyson' Punch Out, yeah. Tyson was so badass that he KTFO'd a whopping 41% of his opponents in the first round

I think Tyson wins physically and stylistically. He had better defense too. But when you factor in intangibles, like chin and heart, Ali seems to have an advantage.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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6/27/2012 4:00:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah but Ali specialized in fighting heavy hitters. Tyson's only advantage would be his power but he'd fail because he's too slow, he can't go the distance, and his arms are too short. People really don't understand how tough and how fast Ali really was.
#BlackLivesMatter
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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6/27/2012 10:10:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:00:31 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
Yeah but Ali specialized in fighting heavy hitters. Tyson's only advantage would be his power but he'd fail because he's too slow, he can't go the distance, and his arms are too short. People really don't understand how tough and how fast Ali really was.

Tyson's speed is drastically underrated. While Tyson lacked foot speed in comparision, he could really throw fist. He would put together six power shots in the same time Ali would throw six jabs and straights.

Ali was strong against power punchers. However he was weak against high-pressure in fighters, as shown against his fights against Joe Frazier. The big difference between Frazier and Tyson is that Frazier only had the left hook. Tyson had dynamite power in both hands.

Here is a little known fact: Ali was a bad defensive boxer. His great chin and footspeed helped mask that, but he was still not very good. The main problem is that he boxed with his hands at his sides. He hardly ever raised his right hand, which left him susceptible to the left hook.

Ali still wins, because he had a great chin and a lot of heart. But he does not win by KO. Not against Tyson.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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6/27/2012 10:25:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I remember when Holyfield beat Tyson, he just kept his distance and ran away the whole fight, and won by decision at the end. He couldn't beat him straight out.
Rob
johnnyboy54
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6/27/2012 10:43:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 10:25:44 PM, Lasagna wrote:
I remember when Holyfield beat Tyson, he just kept his distance and ran away the whole fight, and won by decision at the end. He couldn't beat him straight out.

Tyson was also past his prime in that fight. That was after jail and he fired his trainer.

You gotta look at Tyson before he went to jail.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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6/28/2012 10:19:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 10:43:50 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 10:25:44 PM, Lasagna wrote:
I remember when Holyfield beat Tyson, he just kept his distance and ran away the whole fight, and won by decision at the end. He couldn't beat him straight out.

Tyson was also past his prime in that fight. That was after jail and he fired his trainer.

You gotta look at Tyson before he went to jail.

I don't think anyone is gonna challenge that statement! The problem is that Tyson was like the Terminator entering the ring before he went to jail and then after he came out he was just pathetic.
Rob
TheHunter
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6/29/2012 1:35:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ali faced big hitters his entire career, and out smarted them. Foreman was a harder puncher, and had more brute strength. Tyson wouldn't be able to simply overpower Ali to win. He owuld have to use his brain. Something that isn't comparible with Ali.... lol

Really though, Ali had reach on him, was just his speed, better footwork, better defense, and was known to be more crafty. Ali in his prime would laugh at a young Tyson. But not before completely humiliating him outside of the ring allowing for blind rage to be Michael's greatest weakness. Young people these days often forget how wise Ali's tactics were OUTSIDE of the ring. He could get in someone's head like no other.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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6/29/2012 6:34:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/29/2012 12:04:02 PM, stubs wrote:
Ali was simply "The Greatest"

Sugar Ray Robinson would like to speak to you

Joe Louis was also better than Ali IMO
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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6/29/2012 6:57:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/29/2012 1:35:42 AM, TheHunter wrote:
Ali faced big hitters his entire career, and out smarted them. Foreman was a harder puncher, and had more brute strength. Tyson wouldn't be able to simply overpower Ali to win. He owuld have to use his brain. Something that isn't comparible with Ali.... lol

Whether or not Foreman has a harder hitter is debatable and irrelevant. What is important is their styles. Foreman was a taller fight and much better on the outside. He only threw one punch at a time Tyson fought inside and came at you with multiple hooks and uppercuts with both hands. He threw these punches as fast as Ali threw jabs.

Before Tyson's decline, he was an excellent mover. He would use the peek a boo defense to bob and weave in. Tyson was also a good feinter, allowing him to fake to one area and land flush heavy blows to an undefended part of the body. Tyson may not have been able to move like Ali, but Tyson was a master and moving side to side and attacking from angles.

Really though, Ali had reach on him, was just his speed, better footwork, better defense, and was known to be more crafty.

Ali had speed yes. But his defense was terrible. He never truly learned to block; as he relied on dodging and leaning to escape blows. He kept his hands to his side and put his right is such a bad position. He was vulnerable to lefts all his career.

Ali was a two punch fighter. He could throw jabs and straights and the occasional uppercut if he was lucky. Tyson threw hooks, uppercuts, and had a strong jab, something Ali struggled with his whole career.

Ali in his prime would laugh at a young Tyson. But not before completely humiliating him outside of the ring allowing for blind rage to be Michael's greatest weakness. Young people these days often forget how wise Ali's tactics were OUTSIDE of the ring. He could get in someone's head like no other.

Tyson in his prime was much stronger psychologically then people give him credit for. It was later when he began to fade away.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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6/29/2012 10:38:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/29/2012 7:56:54 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
Ali was a great blocker. Watch his fight vs. Foreman.

The Rope a dope strategy did not succeed because Ali was a good blocker. His fights with Joe Frazier and Ken Norton prove that. It succeeded because of the type of fighter that Foreman was.

Note that during that fight, Ali took vicious body blows. Also, the rope-a-dope is a situational defensive strategy. It worked specifically because Foreman was not a good fighter on the inside. Also, Foreman was slow. REALLY slow. He could not hit more than one blow at a time and he had horrible footwork.

Ali set his right hand on his side most of the time, especially when he was jabbing. His great chin hide drastic flaws in his defense, mainly his ability to guard against left hooks and jabs. From these fights, we can also gather that Ali not guard against body blows.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
RedneckR0nin
Posts: 73
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6/30/2012 6:39:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
As much as I would want Ali to win as I despise Tyson with a passion I think old Iron Mike would win...that is if we are talking Dundee trainer days for Tyson. The only thing that seemingly beat Ali was a good body punching scheme(Joe Frazier) and Mike was the king of body shot punishment. The only thing I would give Ali is he would actually fight Tyson which is Mikes downfall...as soon as a opponent tried to avoid him and play around Tyson he got dropped...anytime anyone has stood up and fought with him....they kicked his A%$!