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Concussion data is mounting

Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/27/2012 4:14:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well what if these data keep mounting? Class-action lawsuits could drive up insurance and liabilities costs until playing just becomes completely cost-prohibitive. If you think your local team-owner is going to operate a business in which his pants can get sued right off of him, you're sadly mistaken... Makes one wonder if there's only a limited amount of Superbowls left that we are going to be able to see.
Rob
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/27/2012 4:34:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Way too much money in it for it to go anywhere, anytime soon. More likely that they'll try to improve helmet technology or change the rules, or anything else.

They should improve helmet technology or change the rules, or anything, I think. Most likely they'll just make fake improvements and keep using up their athletes.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/27/2012 7:18:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There's not enough money to cover them if they get sued repeatedly for extremely large sums of money. If this data keeps piling up, it will become easier and easier to sue. Believe you me, if the courts decide that the NFL is culpable for these injuries, it will become impossible to run a football team. Court-cases are based on precedent; once they start winning in court, it will become easier and easier to sue them.
Rob
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/30/2012 9:03:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/27/2012 4:14:33 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Well what if these data keep mounting? Class-action lawsuits could drive up insurance and liabilities costs until playing just becomes completely cost-prohibitive. If you think your local team-owner is going to operate a business in which his pants can get sued right off of him, you're sadly mistaken... Makes one wonder if there's only a limited amount of Superbowls left that we are going to be able to see.:

I think of a super powerful lobby when I think of the NFL and the NCAA, being that football is as American as apple pie. The demand for football is so high, that getting rid of it would cause a massive backlash.

At most, it'll make individuals reconsider playing, thus limiting the pool of talent and making it far less exciting.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/30/2012 3:24:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/30/2012 9:03:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/27/2012 4:14:33 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Well what if these data keep mounting? Class-action lawsuits could drive up insurance and liabilities costs until playing just becomes completely cost-prohibitive. If you think your local team-owner is going to operate a business in which his pants can get sued right off of him, you're sadly mistaken... Makes one wonder if there's only a limited amount of Superbowls left that we are going to be able to see.:

I think of a super powerful lobby when I think of the NFL and the NCAA, being that football is as American as apple pie. The demand for football is so high, that getting rid of it would cause a massive backlash.

At most, it'll make individuals reconsider playing, thus limiting the pool of talent and making it far less exciting.

You can't lobby the courts.
Rob
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,731
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8/14/2012 4:01:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://espn.go.com...

The company that insures the NFL and protects it against concussion lawsuits is pulling out.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
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- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
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8/14/2012 7:46:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 7:06:47 PM, Danielle wrote:
Guns will be taken away before football is taken away. And guns are protected by the Constitution.

It's not being "taken away." Once you can be sued for concussions it will simply become uninsurable and impossible to profit from.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Danielle
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8/14/2012 8:40:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Insurance would simply become more expensive. At best you will see the prices of tickets and merchandise rise - perhaps even salaries fall (as a last resort). I wouldn't mind if pro athletes made a few million less in order to save the game. I'm sure once their livelihood is threatened, players won't mind playing for 10 million dollar contracts instead of 20 mil.
President of DDO
Danielle
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8/14/2012 8:42:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's not like these people have rocket science to fall back on. When you get to that level, football is all you know. If choosing between millions (or waaah hundreds of thousands for the minions) less or having to work a real job, I'm pretty sure I know what option most pros would take. There's no fame or glory in administrative work, let me tell ya.
President of DDO
R0b1Billion
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8/14/2012 8:51:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 8:40:31 PM, Danielle wrote:
Insurance would simply become more expensive. At best you will see the prices of tickets and merchandise rise - perhaps even salaries fall (as a last resort). I wouldn't mind if pro athletes made a few million less in order to save the game. I'm sure once their livelihood is threatened, players won't mind playing for 10 million dollar contracts instead of 20 mil.

Well it all depends on how much someone can get for this type of lawsuit and how frequently they will be coming. You know Americans; once there is blood in the water the law-suits are going to be coming furiously. The funny thing is that you're probably right about the players being the ones effected the most, because I don't see where else the money would come from (ticket-prices are already outrageous for example); essentially, we're going to create an industry of lawyers and doctors to handle these lawsuits and that money is going to come from the players, who are ultimately the ones supposedly being saved in the process...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,731
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8/14/2012 8:55:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 8:42:23 PM, Danielle wrote:
It's not like these people have rocket science to fall back on. When you get to that level, football is all you know. If choosing between millions (or waaah hundreds of thousands for the minions) less or having to work a real job, I'm pretty sure I know what option most pros would take. There's no fame or glory in administrative work, let me tell ya.

Well yeah but you can't play football until you're 65 years old... It's going to become less worth it to deal with all the injuries, both psychological as well as physical, just to involve yourself in a career that could be 5 years long. A select few get advertising and news jobs and a decent amount can coach (Favre coaches a High-school team now LLLOOOLLL), but dedicating yourself at that elite level might become less worth it in the future. Are we still going to have the Aaron Rodgerses and the Tom Bradys when the money starts being drained? And once we lose the elite players, are fans going to be as interested? It's a fascinating thing to think about.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Loserboi
Posts: 1,232
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8/15/2012 12:36:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
These lawsuits piss me off, and are ruining the game I love. These lawsuits made defenses obsolete basically with the new rules in place. These players suing... I always assumed the nfl would have gotten it put in the contracts that if any damage were to occur u cannot hold the organization responsible. They do that at the freaking store I work at...
R0b1Billion
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8/15/2012 12:47:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 12:36:12 AM, Loserboi wrote:
These lawsuits piss me off, and are ruining the game I love. These lawsuits made defenses obsolete basically with the new rules in place. These players suing... I always assumed the nfl would have gotten it put in the contracts that if any damage were to occur u cannot hold the organization responsible. They do that at the freaking store I work at...

What rights do you sign away?

It seems to me like there would be a legal question of whether concussions are something that one can sign off on that way, or if it's so inherently damaging that the victim must be protected regardless of the policies of the employer. I wonder why boxers can't sue for concussion damage?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/15/2012 1:17:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/27/2012 4:14:33 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Well what if these data keep mounting? Class-action lawsuits could drive up insurance and liabilities costs until playing just becomes completely cost-prohibitive.
Why the balls would anyone think the players have a case? They didn't know it was dangerous to slam their bodies into other bodies?

Well yeah but you can't play football until you're 65 years old... It's going to become less worth it to deal with all the injuries, both psychological as well as physical, just to involve yourself in a career that could be 5 years long

Minimum salary in 2011 was 375k. That's rookies only

5 years of that (and we're lowballing cause that's rookie's only, you actually have to pay more in subsequent years-- and the rules go up over time as well as your veteranship) is 1.875 million.

So at 27 you've got diminished job prospects-- and nearly two million in the bank. Say you can make 25k a year flipping burgers. From 22 to 65 you could make 1.075 million.

All this is pretax of course, but I think you get the point.

It seems to me like there would be a legal question of whether concussions are something that one can sign off on that way, or if it's so inherently damaging that the victim must be protected regardless of the policies of the employer. I wonder why boxers can't sue for concussion damage?
These contracts aren't novel, so it's hard to call them unconscionable when they've been "conscioned" for so long. Thus, the only legal question is "Is public policy against these contracts?" It's clearly not, sports get all kinds of goddamn subsidies, so public policy does not support making them nonviable. Barring new legislation to the contrary, the courts are not going to impose a harsh liability regime on the NFL, or on boxing.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
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8/15/2012 1:44:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/27/2012 3:13:34 PM, Lasagna wrote:
A second question is SHOULD the NFL be dismantled because of injuries...

No, just have a sufficient warning about the dangers and risks, and let it continue. There wouldn't be that much of a difference really. The highest skilled players are most likely fully aware of the potential dangers.

I'll bet no one knows better than the players the risks of danger.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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8/15/2012 2:19:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who are these....vaginas...that don't understand what the game of football is? I don't like the NFL from a business standpoint but I don't believe they're liable on this one. The game is dangerous. They're trying to make it better. You too scared to play? Don't play. Does NASCAR get sued everytime a driver dies?
#BlackLivesMatter
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/15/2012 5:14:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why wouldn't they just create a contract that says hey - this might be dangerous - but you can't sue us in the instances of XYZ. By playing the game you are choosing to accept certain risks. Surely they could come up with a clause like that. The NFL is too big of an industry to disappear. You could say the same about drugs, but drugs aren't as "American as applie pie" like PL pointed out. Football is. They're also undergoing measures to expand the game to Europe, so there aren't any real signs that it will go away anytime soon.
President of DDO
R0b1Billion
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8/17/2012 12:28:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.grantland.com...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/17/2012 1:08:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 12:28:04 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
http://www.grantland.com...

"She's a brilliant scientist who happens to be a little blonde bombshell" - lol, the feminists will have a field day with that... Notice how they felt the need to comment on her looks in addition to her science; they wouldn't do that with a guy scientist:P Anyway, if boxing is still going strong, then I don't think football has anything to worry about just yet. I just can't imagine it going away. I think the work she's doing is really cool though. Just yesterday my mom and I were talking about how there isn't enough brain research. It seems everyone is focused on cancer (because that's where the funding is... not that exploring cancer isn't important!). My dad suffers from TBI so maybe that's why the issue is important to me. But I think studying the brain could be significantly helpful for a crap ton of things. Considering its complexity, it'd be cool if they had computer or engineering geniuses look into it. Crazy stuff. In regard to football, I wonder if helmet technology is all we really have to look to. Or stricter rules.
President of DDO